16 Kids - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ngdawg · 10-14-2005, 04:56 AM

Link =http:LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- An Arkansas woman who has just given birth to her 16th child is ready for number 17.

Michelle Duggar had her first child when she was 21, four years after she and Jim Bob Duggar, a former state lawmaker, were married.

She's now 39 and apparently has gotten the hang of it.

Her husband said the child's birth Wednesday is especially exciting because it's the first time in eight years the family has had a girl.

Duggar said he and his wife, Michelle, "just love children" and his wife said if the "Lord wants to give" them more, she'll accept them.

The Duggars are finishing their new, 7,000-square-foot home, complete with nine bathrooms, dormitory-style bedrooms and a commercial kitchen. They also have four washers and four dryers.

Duggar sells real estate, but he said he plans to run next year for the state Senate.

Google "woman has 16 kids" and you'll get about 10 pages about this family.
This morning, Ohshesus saw them on the Today show and they are getting free things. This is ridiculous!! Why is this family getting gifts for crowding their own home by their own choice? They didn't adopt 16 needy kids-they don't stop screwing long enough to give her uterus a rest. And they're rewarded for it.
They're a white family from Arkansas, mom has a mullet and all the kids' names start with 'J'....there are families with more children, natural or adopted, but I can't help but feeling that had this been a black woman, same exact scenario, no one would blink an eye or stick her on tv.
What pisses me off is that people are giving them gifts. Why? Send some to me-I have only two kids and I can't afford a damned thing-this man was a senator, now sells real estate and I should think that if they couldn't afford all these kids, they would not be stupid enough to have them.
And I won't even get to what her insides must be like!!!! Ugh...I need more tea...

Psycho Dad · 10-14-2005, 05:04 AM

I guess as long as they are financially able to afford all these offspring I don't have a problem with it. I still think it is perhaps not the most responsible thing but that's their business I suppose.

As far as the publicity this is getting... He is going to run for office again. I suspect he knows that publicity good or bad is still publicity. He knew how to get this story out I wager.

fresnelly · 10-14-2005, 05:31 AM

While I can't speak to her state of mind, I do think the phrase <i>"She's now 39 and apparently has gotten the hang of it."</i> is pretty patronising. I hope she is truly thankful for those gifts as she is already wealthy.

lurkette · 10-14-2005, 05:42 AM

In the rural farming town where I grew up, it was common for the Apostolic Lutheran families to have 12, 16, 20 kids. The older ones often raised the younger ones, they ate in shifts, and they got a lot of free government cheese, (but so did the rest of us - the whole town was dirt poor). If the mothers didn't die in childbirth, they often died young from other medical complications related to being a brood sow. (/snark) It's a hard life to choose, and I can't imagine why anybody would do it. I'm a zero population growth proponent, so I think it's selfish to have more kids than enough to replace yourselves. But what are you gonna do - kill 'em? Enforce a 2 kid rule? Free country, people are free to be as stupid as they wanna be, and if you want to give stuff to support this kind of idiocy, you're free to join in the stupidity.

Gatorade Frost · 10-14-2005, 05:50 AM

I don't quite see what the problem is. If you're a lower class family unable to afford to feed yourselves much less a family of 16, you're a drain on tax payers and society, but if you're able to feed and take care of your huge family, like Lurkette said, it's a free country, do as you wish.

In regards to them getting free stuff? It's a t.v. show, people regularly get onto shows like that and just randomly get free stuff. Look at Oprah, people tend to get jewelry, gift cards, etc. I remember Rosie O'Donnel giving some one a new car a while back. It's not really a reward, but a "Hey, you have 16 kids... well, that's cool. Here's something for being unique."

BigBen · 10-14-2005, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

... they are getting free things. This is ridiculous!! Why is this family getting gifts for crowding their own home by their own choice? They didn't adopt 16 needy kids-they don't stop screwing long enough to give her uterus a rest. And they're rewarded for it....
What pisses me off is that people are giving them gifts. Why? Send some to me-I have only two kids and I can't afford a damned thing...

I am puzzled as to your reason to be upset because people are giving her gifts. Do only poor people in need deserve gifts in your eyes?

Hey, people can do whatever they want when it comes to childbirth, and I am of the opinion that the only limiting factor should be the ability to support the children.

I am happy that she is given gifts.

Can you imagine what it is like to be child #8, the one who nobody pays much attention to? Talk about being the "Gray Man".

denim · 10-14-2005, 05:57 AM

WRT ZPG, I used to agree with that. Then I started thinking of it more in the sense of Darwin. If the smarter people don't breed, what does that give us but lots of stupid people. This is not a good thing. I'm not casting aspersions on this particular family since I don't know them, but it certainly holds for the US or any other group you're a part of. If you don't breed, the other groups get bigger relative to you, and yours shrinks.

So now I'm a believer in ZPG, but only for groups I don't like.

highthief · 10-14-2005, 06:24 AM

They can afford it, seem like decent people, and if people want to give them stuff, so what? My brother set up a trust fund for our daughter, that was very nice of him, do you (ngdawg) begrudge her getting that because my bro is well to do, also?

What private citizens or corporations do with their cash is up to them.

Carno · 10-14-2005, 06:50 AM

Wtf?

The only two females responses have been catty.

What exactly is wrong with having that many kids? They can afford them, so who gives a shit. And as for them getting free stuff, so f-ing what? Since when has the world ever been fair? Are you communist or something? You think that since they make more than you, you should be getting free stuff instead of them? Having two kids is hardly remarkable.

alansmithee · 10-14-2005, 06:59 AM

Having that many kids is ridiculous, but if you can afford it go for it. I think the whole idea of having to have your kids eat in shifts is totally hillarious, however.

JustJess · 10-14-2005, 07:19 AM

My uterus hurts just thinking about it.

I don't care if you can afford to support them, I still think it's irresponsible. You want 16 kids and can actually take care of them? Adopt. There are tons of kids out there who need a good home. I definitely agree with the idea of not reproducing more than yourselves. If I have kids, and if I end up wanting more than 2 (and let's be honest, I wouldn't), I will adopt. I don't want government telling me what to do with my uterus, but I wish our society had better inclinations (better in my estimation).

And if I adopt them, I can raise them to be intelligent participants in society - I don't have to balance the scales with just my blood.

The snark factor you hear is the disgust intelligent women have for this situation - our opinion is, she's being irresponsible and doesn't deserve special treatment for being a "brood sow". It's not like we're short on population here, people. Gifts are nice for everyone, I'd like free stuff too - but the reason she's getting the free stuff is for helping continue the world's population problem. Wow, that's... great...

Carno · 10-14-2005, 07:26 AM

The argument would be better served by giving it to all the third world countries out there. If not for so much immigration, the population of the US wouldbe shrinking.

Also, what is your basis for implying that this woman is not intelligent? Because she wants to have her own kids? How exactly is she being irresponsible? Because she's not fixing other people's mistakes? It's not her fault that there are needy kids in the world, so why should she be expected to take them in?

ShaniFaye · 10-14-2005, 07:33 AM

well I consider myself an intelligent woman, and I dont see what the problem is. They are making their own way, my tax dollars arent going to support some woman thats got 16 kids by 16 different fathers who thinks she doesnt have to work to provide for her family.

If I can reproduce children on my own, why should I have to adopt in order to have the family I want? I dont understand the thinking behind that.

guthmund · 10-14-2005, 08:10 AM

I think it's a bit distasteful for her to get free stuff for popping out an inordinate number of children.

I don't begrudge her having the kids. I don't care how many kids she has as long as they being taken care of accordingly. I just think rewarding her for simply for having an active uterus sends the wrong message. We should be rewarding those that tackle the more difficult jobs rather than the couple, who after 16 kids, have finally 'gotten the hang of it.'

ShaniFaye · 10-14-2005, 08:21 AM

but I dont see how they can be blamed because somebody else has the bad taste to give them "free stuff"

highthief · 10-14-2005, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

but I dont see how they can be blamed because somebody else has the bad taste to give them "free stuff"

They can't, but people are jealous and judgmental anyway.

I don't think it's bad taste either. People do what makes 'em feel good, so long as it isn't illegal, why do people always want to judge that this is right or wrong?

canuckguy · 10-14-2005, 08:57 AM

Thats just alot of humping. Like rabbits! If he can afford to feed them fine, but come on now buddy, put a condom on, get fixed or something. My guess would be that they are big bible thumpers, i think i read that? They might be great parents but I truely doubt you can be that involved with your children when you have that many. Someone never learned that quality trumps quantity in some situations.

I am judging based on how much time can you devote to each kid, I bet the older kids get stuck with being semi-parents, instead of just being kids themselves.

maleficent · 10-14-2005, 09:09 AM

That's a helluva lot of tax deductions...

/me shrugs...

better her than me is all I can say.

StanT · 10-14-2005, 09:10 AM

I have my hands full with two, I can't imagine 16. However, it really doesn't affect me. it's none of my business.

pig · 10-14-2005, 09:24 AM

I can't say that I think there's anything wrong with this, but I would strongly prefer that people with those kinds of resources consider supplementing the fruits of the their own labor with adopted kids. I could really care less if people give them free stuff. If I set my standard to start getting pissed because some people somewhere are getting crap for making babies, I'd just be too pissed off all the time. that said: DAY-AMN that's a lot diapers and snot and pee. This shit reminds me of the Travellers down in Augusta GA or something.

ophelia783 · 10-14-2005, 09:31 AM

I've seen several documentaries about the Duggar family over the years, and while I couldn't handle the load, they obviously can.

Jim and Michelle Duggar have systems figured out; every child has a buddy (an older sibling is matched with a younger to help them with homework, daily tasks and such), they have meal plans, buy in bulk and are debt-free. The children all seem to be healthy and happy.

Is it really such a big deal that they're getting a few items free? I'm sure they didn't write in to ask for them, and could most likely afford them on their own. I really don't get why this is such a huge deal.

Poppinjay · 10-14-2005, 09:35 AM

The thing that would scare me about this is the same that would scare me about giving birth to drug enhanced litter. Some of these kids will be bad. I'm guessin if they do a very good job raising them, maybe three will turn out to be hoodlums. However, one might be president someday I guess.

One overacheiver, onecoddled baby child, and 15 grey men.

Meditrina · 10-14-2005, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ophelia783

buy in bulk and are debt-free.

Wow. 16 kids and debt free? Here I am struggling with 2 kids and loads of debt. If I were debt free and able to afford more children, I'd probably have at least 1 more. 16? No, I don't think I could physically do that. I am amazed that her body could. I have mixed feelings about the gifts they received. I used to get upset when I saw those parents who chose to use fertility drugs and ended up with multiple kids (more than 3) at once get gifts, this was not a miracle of God, but of man. Now I am not sure my thinking was very fair. I don't know how to explain what I feel properly, I hope not to offend anyone. My opinions about alot of things have changed, and continue to change, the more I read different viewpoints here at TFP. Media does not always tell the whole story, and I try not to judge people by what I read. I am babbling and getting off topic, I apologize.

ngdawg · 10-14-2005, 09:54 AM

It's a huge deal in the media. She hasn't even broken any records. The fact that it's 2005, they're white and churning out kids is what is making news, and it's dumb news.
I take issue with that 'jealousy' remark. I sure as hell don't want anything they have. But, I do think people are incredibly dumb for giving free things to a family made its size by choice and can well afford to maintain it without handouts, specially in light of the recent disasters to hit our country. Does it affect me personally? Hell, no, but neither do most of the things we bitch about both in forums and in real life.
A woman in NJ who has adopted and fostered 19 kids just lost her home to fire....anyone see her on the Today show or 10 pages of Google? no....

pig · 10-14-2005, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

It's a huge deal in the media. She hasn't even broken any records.....

give her time. that 9 month gestation period is a real bitch...it could only be better if they named them all "george"

aberkok · 10-14-2005, 10:06 AM

It's the year 2005 and it doesn't take any specialized knowledge to know that if one were to adopt 16 existing children rather than siring 16 new ones, you'd be helping the world out. Both the hypothetical adopted kids and the environment would benefit greatly from such a decision.

Does one have the right to have 16 biological children? Of course they do. Does one have the right to buy 3 cars and leave their air-conditioning on all the time? Of course they do.

For my own peace of mind, I'd need somebody to argue successfully why they need to have a biological child as opposed to an adopted one.

ngdawg · 10-14-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

They can afford it, seem like decent people, and if people want to give them stuff, so what? My brother set up a trust fund for our daughter, that was very nice of him, do you (ngdawg) begrudge her getting that because my bro is well to do, also?

What private citizens or corporations do with their cash is up to them.

Where did I say anyone should begrudge another? I said the fact that people are sending shit to them when they can well do for themselves is dumb, that's my opinion, like it or not. My kids have college trustfunds set up for them as well by their grandmother(not that I'd have been able to, so that's cool)...I don't care what your brother does....but if he'd like to part with some more, just send certified checks to 602 Nassau......

pig · 10-14-2005, 10:09 AM

aberkok i can make tons of arguments as to why someone might want a couple of their own kids. hell, have five or six of 'em. when you get up to 12 - 15 range, that's like a whole town. i mean, this ain't little house on the prairie, you know?\

oh, biological reason = some people posit that in the act of having children, you achieve a sense of immortality, or an ability to live beyond your own factual death. or, survival of the species, etc.

edit crap. i didn't realize the bank was open. hightheif, i'll set up a paypal donation account, and your brother can pretend i need a college fund. hell, i'd love to go back and study some more stuff.

ShaniFaye · 10-14-2005, 10:12 AM

and on the flip side, I'd like somebody to convince me why, if I want 16 kids, its my "responsiblity" to adopt rather than have my own. Dont get me wrong I have nothing against adopting kids....but I fail to see why the woman should be looked down on because she chose to have her OWN children rather than adopting.

abaya · 10-14-2005, 10:17 AM

Okay, has anyone been to their website?...

http://www.jimbob.info/

His first name is Jim Bob. Anyway... I am not a social darwinist, but I do agree with denim. Natural selection is no longer operating on most people these days, and as a result, we have situations like this. All the people who are smart enough NOT to have lots of children, aren't reproducing... while all the people who are (sorry) dumb enough to have way too many children, are reproducing WAYYY too much.

Maybe I've offended some people. But it's an interesting topic.. let's hear more (read their website!!!!).

pig · 10-14-2005, 10:18 AM

shani,

i personally just think it would be cool...sort of like if i have two kegs of budweiser on the back porch, and one of 'em already tapped, i'd rather go ahead and kill it before tapping the second one. maybe not the best analogy...but i drive by an orphanage every day on the way home from work (i keep telling myself i need to go volunteer there, actually) and i just think there's a lot of kids there that could use a different experience than growing up in a perpetual ymca / barracks. i guess after a certain point, i don't see the point in adding more little varmits that are going to consume the Earth's resources, when we're already swimming in 'em up to our ears. But I don't think it's a hard moral issue like thou shall not (usually in most one-on-one circumstances) kill.

edit denim/abaya/et al: welcome to the perpetual "Gene Theory" lecture I get from my mother any time she's aware I'm looking at a female. "I will have no ugly or stupid grandchildren. The breeders are out there, going at it. What are you doing? Worthless...just worthless I tell you..."

highthief · 10-14-2005, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ophelia783

I've seen several documentaries about the Duggar family over the years, and while I couldn't handle the load, they obviously can.

Jim and Michelle Duggar have systems figured out; every child has a buddy (an older sibling is matched with a younger to help them with homework, daily tasks and such), they have meal plans, buy in bulk and are debt-free. The children all seem to be healthy and happy.

Is it really such a big deal that they're getting a few items free? I'm sure they didn't write in to ask for them, and could most likely afford them on their own. I really don't get why this is such a huge deal.

In other words, seemingly model parents are getting criticized for being debt free and raising their kids in an enviable environment where their siblings love and help them.

My Dad was one of 8, my mother in law one of 13 - they'll both tell you they had happy childhoods (despite growing up in the Depression and war years).

Scorps · 10-14-2005, 10:24 AM

I knew someone that just had there 7th and I though 7 was a lot...they stopped after 7 because they finally had a daughter

I never asked to see how far they would go if they would keep having boys

ShaniFaye · 10-14-2005, 10:25 AM

hightheif My grandfather was one of 15 and he'd say the same things.....all his brothers and sisters did.

pig · 10-14-2005, 10:32 AM

oh hell yeah, my family just barely made down from the appalachians a generation ago...if you think those people weren't making babies right and left your crazy. and PoppinJay, you might have a point because some of my relatives are shitbag crazy. How many of you know someone who nearly killed themselves using a blowtorch and a kerosene heater to fix their dirttrack go-cart?

Xazy · 10-14-2005, 10:41 AM

I know somoene she is 25 years old, got married at 19 (i am 98% that was her age), she had twins, they then had another set of twins. They then went on birth control, had quad. All girls....

I know another person who has 14, they live fine, great family, really nice people. I know a number of other people like that (not personal friends, but people I know).

snowy · 10-14-2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Okay, has anyone been to their website?...

http://www.jimbob.info/

His first name is Jim Bob. Anyway... I am not a social darwinist, but I do agree with denim. Natural selection is no longer operating on most people these days, and as a result, we have situations like this. All the people who are smart enough NOT to have lots of children, aren't reproducing... while all the people who are (sorry) dumb enough to have way too many children, are reproducing WAYYY too much.

Maybe I've offended some people. But it's an interesting topic.. let's hear more (read their website!!!!).

abaya, I'm with you...personally, I want to have more than 2 kids, simply to try and restore the balance, haha.

I think the Duggans have the right to have as many kids as they want, as long as they're not putting a strain on the resources of this country. As it seems like they aren't, fine. But I also agree with ngdawg--there's no reason why these people had to receive or accept free gifts for the "miracle" of having 16 kids. There's really nothing special or significant about this. When we have so many in the United States suffering right now because of the hurricane, I think there are definitely people more deserving of free gifts.

Carno · 10-14-2005, 11:45 AM

Again, how do any of you know the intelligence level of these people? She could have a higher IQ than any of you, yet by the very fact that she chose to have 16 kids she is suddenly unintelligent and a "brood sow?"

They have managed to raise happy kids and be debt free, so something tells me that they may be more intelligent than any of you on your high horses.

But then again, yall may be right. In any case, you don't know them, so who are you to make assumptions about them based on what you read on the internet?

Open minded my ass....

ngdawg · 10-14-2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Okay, has anyone been to their website?...

http://www.jimbob.info/

His first name is Jim Bob. Anyway... I am not a social darwinist, but I do agree with denim. Natural selection is no longer operating on most people these days, and as a result, we have situations like this. All the people who are smart enough NOT to have lots of children, aren't reproducing... while all the people who are (sorry) dumb enough to have way too many children, are reproducing WAYYY too much.

Maybe I've offended some people. But it's an interesting topic.. let's hear more (read their website!!!!).

From the site: It was 1:00 AM in the morning as I stood folding laundry with tears streaming down my cheeks. Feelings of being overwhelmed flooded my mind. I cried aloud, ”LORD I NEED YOUR HELP, I can’t do it all! I feel so inadequate! Diapers, dishes, laundry, meals, cleanup, school lessons, baths, hugs, kisses, correction…” My list seemed to go on and on.
She then goes on to say how she prayed and sang, yet she was up again all night and ended up falling asleep during her kids' piano lessons....and they want MORE kids? Obviously, this woman doesn't even have time to get a haircut, having had the same hair since 1988, she's using up 26 hours of a 24 hour day....If someone could explain the joy in this, I'd love to be enlightened.

denim · 10-14-2005, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carn

Open minded my ass....

Social pressure to be judgemental, Carn. And/or jealousy.

My parents will have no stupid or ugly grandkids either, as neither I nor my brother is likely to father any kids at all.

Anyway, back to the topic. Sixteen kids. Wow. That's a lot of diapers, a lot of nose wiping, and a lot of homework. I wonder what their theory of parenting is.

10-14-2005, 04:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	16 Kids Link =http:LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- An Arkansas woman who has just given birth to her 16th child is ready for number 17. Michelle Duggar had her first child when she was 21, four years after she and Jim Bob Duggar, a former state lawmaker, were married. She's now 39 and apparently has gotten the hang of it. Her husband said the child's birth Wednesday is especially exciting because it's the first time in eight years the family has had a girl. Duggar said he and his wife, Michelle, "just love children" and his wife said if the "Lord wants to give" them more, she'll accept them. The Duggars are finishing their new, 7,000-square-foot home, complete with nine bathrooms, dormitory-style bedrooms and a commercial kitchen. They also have four washers and four dryers. Duggar sells real estate, but he said he plans to run next year for the state Senate. Google "woman has 16 kids" and you'll get about 10 pages about this family. This morning, Ohshesus saw them on the Today show and they are getting free things. This is ridiculous!! Why is this family getting gifts for crowding their own home by their own choice? They didn't adopt 16 needy kids-they don't stop screwing long enough to give her uterus a rest. And they're rewarded for it. They're a white family from Arkansas, mom has a mullet and all the kids' names start with 'J'....there are families with more children, natural or adopted, but I can't help but feeling that had this been a black woman, same exact scenario, no one would blink an eye or stick her on tv. What pisses me off is that people are giving them gifts. Why? Send some to me-I have only two kids and I can't afford a damned thing-this man was a senator, now sells real estate and I should think that if they couldn't afford all these kids, they would not be stupid enough to have them. And I won't even get to what her insides must be like!!!! Ugh...I need more tea... __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

10-14-2005, 05:04 AM	#2 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	I guess as long as they are financially able to afford all these offspring I don't have a problem with it. I still think it is perhaps not the most responsible thing but that's their business I suppose. As far as the publicity this is getting... He is going to run for office again. I suspect he knows that publicity good or bad is still publicity. He knew how to get this story out I wager. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

10-14-2005, 05:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	While I can't speak to her state of mind, I do think the phrase <i>"She's now 39 and apparently has gotten the hang of it."</i> is pretty patronising. I hope she is truly thankful for those gifts as she is already wealthy. __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

10-14-2005, 05:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	In the rural farming town where I grew up, it was common for the Apostolic Lutheran families to have 12, 16, 20 kids. The older ones often raised the younger ones, they ate in shifts, and they got a lot of free government cheese, (but so did the rest of us - the whole town was dirt poor). If the mothers didn't die in childbirth, they often died young from other medical complications related to being a brood sow. (/snark) It's a hard life to choose, and I can't imagine why anybody would do it. I'm a zero population growth proponent, so I think it's selfish to have more kids than enough to replace yourselves. But what are you gonna do - kill 'em? Enforce a 2 kid rule? Free country, people are free to be as stupid as they wanna be, and if you want to give stuff to support this kind of idiocy, you're free to join in the stupidity. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

10-14-2005, 05:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
Gatorade Frost Rookie	I don't quite see what the problem is. If you're a lower class family unable to afford to feed yourselves much less a family of 16, you're a drain on tax payers and society, but if you're able to feed and take care of your huge family, like Lurkette said, it's a free country, do as you wish. In regards to them getting free stuff? It's a t.v. show, people regularly get onto shows like that and just randomly get free stuff. Look at Oprah, people tend to get jewelry, gift cards, etc. I remember Rosie O'Donnel giving some one a new car a while back. It's not really a reward, but a "Hey, you have 16 kids... well, that's cool. Here's something for being unique." __________________ I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well." Emo Philips

10-14-2005, 05:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	WRT ZPG, I used to agree with that. Then I started thinking of it more in the sense of Darwin. If the smarter people don't breed, what does that give us but lots of stupid people. This is not a good thing. I'm not casting aspersions on this particular family since I don't know them, but it certainly holds for the US or any other group you're a part of. If you don't breed, the other groups get bigger relative to you, and yours shrinks. So now I'm a believer in ZPG, but only for groups I don't like.

10-14-2005, 06:24 AM	#8 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	They can afford it, seem like decent people, and if people want to give them stuff, so what? My brother set up a trust fund for our daughter, that was very nice of him, do you (ngdawg) begrudge her getting that because my bro is well to do, also? What private citizens or corporations do with their cash is up to them. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

10-14-2005, 06:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	Wtf? The only two females responses have been catty. What exactly is wrong with having that many kids? They can afford them, so who gives a shit. And as for them getting free stuff, so f-ing what? Since when has the world ever been fair? Are you communist or something? You think that since they make more than you, you should be getting free stuff instead of them? Having two kids is hardly remarkable. __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

10-14-2005, 06:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
alansmithee Junkie	Having that many kids is ridiculous, but if you can afford it go for it. I think the whole idea of having to have your kids eat in shifts is totally hillarious, however.

10-14-2005, 07:19 AM	#11 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	My uterus hurts just thinking about it. I don't care if you can afford to support them, I still think it's irresponsible. You want 16 kids and can actually take care of them? Adopt. There are tons of kids out there who need a good home. I definitely agree with the idea of not reproducing more than yourselves. If I have kids, and if I end up wanting more than 2 (and let's be honest, I wouldn't), I will adopt. I don't want government telling me what to do with my uterus, but I wish our society had better inclinations (better in my estimation). And if I adopt them, I can raise them to be intelligent participants in society - I don't have to balance the scales with just my blood. The snark factor you hear is the disgust intelligent women have for this situation - our opinion is, she's being irresponsible and doesn't deserve special treatment for being a "brood sow". It's not like we're short on population here, people. Gifts are nice for everyone, I'd like free stuff too - but the reason she's getting the free stuff is for helping continue the world's population problem. Wow, that's... great... __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

10-14-2005, 07:26 AM	#12 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	The argument would be better served by giving it to all the third world countries out there. If not for so much immigration, the population of the US wouldbe shrinking. Also, what is your basis for implying that this woman is not intelligent? Because she wants to have her own kids? How exactly is she being irresponsible? Because she's not fixing other people's mistakes? It's not her fault that there are needy kids in the world, so why should she be expected to take them in? __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

10-14-2005, 07:33 AM	#13 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	well I consider myself an intelligent woman, and I dont see what the problem is. They are making their own way, my tax dollars arent going to support some woman thats got 16 kids by 16 different fathers who thinks she doesnt have to work to provide for her family. If I can reproduce children on my own, why should I have to adopt in order to have the family I want? I dont understand the thinking behind that. __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

10-14-2005, 08:10 AM	#14 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	I think it's a bit distasteful for her to get free stuff for popping out an inordinate number of children. I don't begrudge her having the kids. I don't care how many kids she has as long as they being taken care of accordingly. I just think rewarding her for simply for having an active uterus sends the wrong message. We should be rewarding those that tackle the more difficult jobs rather than the couple, who after 16 kids, have finally 'gotten the hang of it.' __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

10-14-2005, 08:21 AM	#15 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	but I dont see how they can be blamed because somebody else has the bad taste to give them "free stuff" __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

10-14-2005, 08:57 AM	#17 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	Thats just alot of humping. Like rabbits! If he can afford to feed them fine, but come on now buddy, put a condom on, get fixed or something. My guess would be that they are big bible thumpers, i think i read that? They might be great parents but I truely doubt you can be that involved with your children when you have that many. Someone never learned that quality trumps quantity in some situations. I am judging based on how much time can you devote to each kid, I bet the older kids get stuck with being semi-parents, instead of just being kids themselves.

10-14-2005, 09:09 AM	#18 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	That's a helluva lot of tax deductions... /me shrugs... better her than me is all I can say. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

10-14-2005, 09:10 AM	#19 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	I have my hands full with two, I can't imagine 16. However, it really doesn't affect me. it's none of my business.

10-14-2005, 09:24 AM	#20 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	I can't say that I think there's anything wrong with this, but I would strongly prefer that people with those kinds of resources consider supplementing the fruits of the their own labor with adopted kids. I could really care less if people give them free stuff. If I set my standard to start getting pissed because some people somewhere are getting crap for making babies, I'd just be too pissed off all the time. that said: DAY-AMN that's a lot diapers and snot and pee. This shit reminds me of the Travellers down in Augusta GA or something. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

10-14-2005, 09:31 AM	#21 (permalink)
ophelia783 Insane Location: West Virginia	I've seen several documentaries about the Duggar family over the years, and while I couldn't handle the load, they obviously can. Jim and Michelle Duggar have systems figured out; every child has a buddy (an older sibling is matched with a younger to help them with homework, daily tasks and such), they have meal plans, buy in bulk and are debt-free. The children all seem to be healthy and happy. Is it really such a big deal that they're getting a few items free? I'm sure they didn't write in to ask for them, and could most likely afford them on their own. I really don't get why this is such a huge deal. __________________ ~~ He with a sharp tongue slits his own throat ~~

10-14-2005, 09:35 AM	#22 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	The thing that would scare me about this is the same that would scare me about giving birth to drug enhanced litter. Some of these kids will be bad. I'm guessin if they do a very good job raising them, maybe three will turn out to be hoodlums. However, one might be president someday I guess. One overacheiver, onecoddled baby child, and 15 grey men. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

10-14-2005, 09:54 AM	#24 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	It's a huge deal in the media. She hasn't even broken any records. The fact that it's 2005, they're white and churning out kids is what is making news, and it's dumb news. I take issue with that 'jealousy' remark. I sure as hell don't want anything they have. But, I do think people are incredibly dumb for giving free things to a family made its size by choice and can well afford to maintain it without handouts, specially in light of the recent disasters to hit our country. Does it affect me personally? Hell, no, but neither do most of the things we bitch about both in forums and in real life. A woman in NJ who has adopted and fostered 19 kids just lost her home to fire....anyone see her on the Today show or 10 pages of Google? no.... __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

10-14-2005, 10:06 AM	#26 (permalink)
aberkok “Wrong is right.” Location: toronto	It's the year 2005 and it doesn't take any specialized knowledge to know that if one were to adopt 16 existing children rather than siring 16 new ones, you'd be helping the world out. Both the hypothetical adopted kids and the environment would benefit greatly from such a decision. Does one have the right to have 16 biological children? Of course they do. Does one have the right to buy 3 cars and leave their air-conditioning on all the time? Of course they do. For my own peace of mind, I'd need somebody to argue successfully why they need to have a biological child as opposed to an adopted one. __________________ !check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."

10-14-2005, 10:09 AM	#28 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	aberkok i can make tons of arguments as to why someone might want a couple of their own kids. hell, have five or six of 'em. when you get up to 12 - 15 range, that's like a whole town. i mean, this ain't little house on the prairie, you know?\ oh, biological reason = some people posit that in the act of having children, you achieve a sense of immortality, or an ability to live beyond your own factual death. or, survival of the species, etc. edit crap. i didn't realize the bank was open. hightheif, i'll set up a paypal donation account, and your brother can pretend i need a college fund. hell, i'd love to go back and study some more stuff. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

10-14-2005, 10:12 AM	#29 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	and on the flip side, I'd like somebody to convince me why, if I want 16 kids, its my "responsiblity" to adopt rather than have my own. Dont get me wrong I have nothing against adopting kids....but I fail to see why the woman should be looked down on because she chose to have her OWN children rather than adopting. __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

10-14-2005, 10:17 AM	#30 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	Okay, has anyone been to their website?... http://www.jimbob.info/ His first name is Jim Bob. Anyway... I am not a social darwinist, but I do agree with denim. Natural selection is no longer operating on most people these days, and as a result, we have situations like this. All the people who are smart enough NOT to have lots of children, aren't reproducing... while all the people who are (sorry) dumb enough to have way too many children, are reproducing WAYYY too much. Maybe I've offended some people. But it's an interesting topic.. let's hear more (read their website!!!!). __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

10-14-2005, 10:18 AM	#31 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	shani, i personally just think it would be cool...sort of like if i have two kegs of budweiser on the back porch, and one of 'em already tapped, i'd rather go ahead and kill it before tapping the second one. maybe not the best analogy...but i drive by an orphanage every day on the way home from work (i keep telling myself i need to go volunteer there, actually) and i just think there's a lot of kids there that could use a different experience than growing up in a perpetual ymca / barracks. i guess after a certain point, i don't see the point in adding more little varmits that are going to consume the Earth's resources, when we're already swimming in 'em up to our ears. But I don't think it's a hard moral issue like thou shall not (usually in most one-on-one circumstances) kill. edit denim/abaya/et al: welcome to the perpetual "Gene Theory" lecture I get from my mother any time she's aware I'm looking at a female. "I will have no ugly or stupid grandchildren. The breeders are out there, going at it. What are you doing? Worthless...just worthless I tell you..." __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style Last edited by pig; 10-14-2005 at 10:20 AM..

10-14-2005, 10:24 AM	#33 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	I knew someone that just had there 7th and I though 7 was a lot...they stopped after 7 because they finally had a daughter I never asked to see how far they would go if they would keep having boys

10-14-2005, 10:25 AM	#34 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	hightheif My grandfather was one of 15 and he'd say the same things.....all his brothers and sisters did. __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

10-14-2005, 10:32 AM	#35 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	oh hell yeah, my family just barely made down from the appalachians a generation ago...if you think those people weren't making babies right and left your crazy. and PoppinJay, you might have a point because some of my relatives are shitbag crazy. How many of you know someone who nearly killed themselves using a blowtorch and a kerosene heater to fix their dirttrack go-cart? __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

10-14-2005, 10:41 AM	#36 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	I know somoene she is 25 years old, got married at 19 (i am 98% that was her age), she had twins, they then had another set of twins. They then went on birth control, had quad. All girls.... I know another person who has 14, they live fine, great family, really nice people. I know a number of other people like that (not personal friends, but people I know).

10-14-2005, 11:45 AM	#38 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	Again, how do any of you know the intelligence level of these people? She could have a higher IQ than any of you, yet by the very fact that she chose to have 16 kids she is suddenly unintelligent and a "brood sow?" They have managed to raise happy kids and be debt free, so something tells me that they may be more intelligent than any of you on your high horses. But then again, yall may be right. In any case, you don't know them, so who are you to make assumptions about them based on what you read on the internet? Open minded my ass.... __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/ Last edited by Carn; 10-14-2005 at 11:48 AM..