Non-US Citizens: What Do You Really Think of America?
 

Many people in America seem to think that we are hated worldwide. Others think that everybody loves us. I was just curious to think what actual foriegners think. Please post whatever you think is appropriate.

I like most American people, but since I am a passivist, I will refrain from describing how I feel about America and its leadership.

American to me...is like a cousin that I hate and love.

I just can't explain it. There are attributes about her that I like and others that I dislike.

Thank you, you've said enough.

I like Americans as individuals. There are quite a lot of nice ones, just like in any other place. However, I wouldn't say the same for America's global/international policy and its inability to follow the recommendations of organizations like the WTO. They're supposed to be part of such things, yet they follow their rulings when it suits them (notably the softwood lumber dispute, which all BCers hate). I wouldn't say I want it gone though, as it is the biggest trading partner of many countries worldwide, and without it, I think the global market would stagnate. Love-hate relationship? I think so.

Honestly, I like America....I like a lot of Americans.
However, as a Canadian who is pursuing possible immigration, I'm scared to death of living there.

I fear your country, but I like a portion of Americans that I've met. However, some of them certainly lived up to stereotypes (loud, brash Texans for example).

*Everyone believes that George Bush is a mouthpiece for a secret society of oil barrons.

As for the American people; some are extremely good, some are extremely bad and the rest fit somewhere in between.


*When I say 'everyone', I mean the entire population.

The problem with America is that many people outside of the US learn about the US through three major sources:

1) The current Administration (whoever that may be) as they appear on the nightly news.
2) American entertainment and cultural exports in all its forms (Film, Literature, Music, Television, Comicbooks, etc.)
3) The military either stationed nearby, visiting at port or currently in action.

Sadly, this provides a very skewed view of a very complex nation.

Most individual Americans I have met are just like anyone else I've met from around the world.

I've never plumbed the depths of my thoughts towards Americans, but I do know that whenever I meet one, I raise an eyebrow. I worry about their ideology: are they a flag waving redneck? I don't get along with people like that, to put it lightly. Luckily most Americans I meet aren't like that but there's always that period of intial suspicion.

As what most people has said, more or less. As individuals, there's nothing wrong with most of them (my boss and good pal from work is from Idaho). There is quite often an air of arrogance about them, which I don't blame them for as it's bombarded into their minds from a very tender age.

As a country, though, ignoring the UN et al when they're supposed to be the flagship for democracy, well, doesn't sit right.

I am an avid consumer of news - I generally read (UK) newspapers, the BBC, Sky and CNN websites and satellite news services every day.

I have been to the US and Canada a few times and worked with US ex-pats at college and in jobs.

In general almost all of the Americans I have met have been decent people - but some astonish me with their insularity.

American people tat I have met seem totally oblivious to world events and seem to genuinely believe that global policy is about "Good vs Evil" in some way.

I think that Europeans, Africans, and Asians seem to have a much more pragmatic understanding of global realpolitik - maybe it's because we come from smaller countries, or have a direct recollection of wars. I don't know for certain.

Too me, one analogy tat seems nearly correct is tat the US is like a huge nursery or junior high. You are safe there, but you look out the windows and don't want to know about it.

What's really odd is that the US is populated by the decedents of the most adventurous people that Europe could supply (as well as the involuntary settlers descended from slaves etc).

The American SYSTEM seems totally incomprehensible to us - you worry about civil liberties and gun control as a purely academic issue, but seem to ignore the fact that if some of the big cities in your nation are so dangerous that the police won't go there at night time, it might be because you can get handguns in Wal*Mart

I have always thought of the US as the smallest and most insular country I have been to - but spread out to enormous volume with loads of empty countryside.

The USA is like a Polynesian island chain - you have to travel for days to get from one part to another, but for some odd reason people try to present it as a unified whole.

The on ting it seems safe to say about the US is that in almost all respects it is far from united.

And nobody likes that Bush bloke - they think he's a bit stupid and very dangerous (sorry).

Nobody expects a Greek to have the same way of viewing the world as a Scot or a Norwegian, but everyone talks about "Americans" as if they were the same thing.

My most shocking experience in the US was driving through mile after mile of horrific poverty, half an hour away from sparkling beautiful finance districts in big rich cities.

The US is without contest the richest place on earth and has room and money for immense developments to allow everyone to live productive and worthwhile lives, but nobody does it.

Anywhere else in the world that sort of wealth has led to an enlightened welfare state, but in the US things have slipped so far the other way that travellers from the EU are now advised (by our governments) to take out additional health insurance and insist tat we are not taken to public hospitals if we are involved in an accident.

There are 3rd world countries tat don't get that rating from the Foreign office. :o

I've always been a US citizen, but I did live in Eurpoe for almost 3 years (germany)..

and while I didn't talk to many people about the Us, or spend much time trying to assess details about how germans view the US ... I did sense a pretty obvious disapproval (of the leadership and politics and such).

Like any country in the world, its gonna have some assholes, and its gonna have some awesome people.

Only thing that ever bothered me was after 911, it seemed like no american was asked WHY did the terrorist attack us, just how can we attack them back. Sometimes you have to look inward for resolve (for the war on terror) and not just be the aggressor. I think that has happened now, but when 911 was around all the americans in my office were jumping for nukes sorta speak.



edit- americans are great people, i think some people have views on america based just on the media (can be said about some canadians as well) that can create stereotypes that are not accurate. Anything to sell tv and print.

I think that many of the issues we outside of the US tend to have with those who live in the US is the insularity that has been referenced above.

The US is a big place but in general it is a big place that is very inward looking. The same media and cultural entertainment that is exported to the World is often the only (if not the most prevalent) thing that US citizens use for inormation about themselves.

I am often surprised at not only the lack of information about global events but moreover, the lack of interest in global events. I do see this changing for the better and wouldn't argue that it is universal by any stretch (the best example of this at a high level is GW Bush's assertion on the campaign trail in 1999/2000 that he had only been out of the US once in his life combined with his lack of knowledge of foreign leadership and general issues and he was an educated man running for the highest office).

I agree, Charlatan. It took a Brit to pull my head out of my arse and start taking a world view rather than an insular one. Best thing he ever did for me.

Yeah. I mean, there's actually a thread on the boards right now where people are arguing over whether or not people should care about the world around them. Literally. People are being called insensitive and others are saying it's perfectly fine to not care or be informed.

That's a sad, pathetic view- but also very typical, which reminds me just how far this country as a whole has to go to actually grow up.

The forward-moving areas do well enough, but the areas where they're moving backward... well, it seems they move faster in the other direction all the time.

I don't mean to threadjack here, but last I checked, you can't buy handguns at Wal-mart. Granted, they have hunting rifles and shotguns, but criminals don't use those kind of weapons and they don't get their guns legally anyway, which is why they're criminals and since they don't give two shits what the laws are, they're gonna find a way to obtain those weapons, be it having them smuggled in, having individual pieces of them shipped in, or making them themselves. Besides that, the cities have many other factors that account for high crime, such as high numbers of minorities, gangs, underfunded police forces, and so on.
/end threadjack

Not that it's a defense - -but look at the evening news... most of the news is local/state level - some national level. the newspaper same thing - there's very little world news.

Most non-americans don't get US news unless it's scandalous -- everyone new all about the election fiascos... but regular news -- no one outside of who is involved in it -- cares...

I love Americans individually, and collectively I chuckle to myself.

The way that your government system is set up ensures division and hostility.

An old American Army Captain that I met had differing views of History. He was not taught the war of 1812 in school, and became quite enraged about some of the things I had been taught. We nearly came to blows over the subject, but luckily he out-ranked me and I deffered, preventing an international incident.

I envy the nationalism that seems to pour out from every American I meet. I have commented before how I wish that Canadians could somehow stop appologizing for being Canadian. I find myself constantly saying "Boy, I hope I don't offend anyone..." as I post replies to the TFP.

Do you think that Americans wander around saying that?

"I've got the Fucking First Ammendment gauranteeing me the right to offend people. Here is my opinion, here is the rationale behind it, and if anyone disagrees, they are wrong and I will tell them so."

I admire that way of thinking.

Umm, I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

I get at least 5 American news channels, including Fox Rochester and CBS/NBC Detroit local news.

I watch the news to get my dose of international events.

I bet you folks in Rochester didn't know that your FOX station was being rebroadcasted across the Canadian Prairies :thumbsup: !

YAH, But Canadia is kind of like a US suburb... :)

Someday, i'll tell the tale of the international incident i almost caused in Australia when i convinced a waiter (who thought he knew everything) that there had been a great war fought between Canada and the US, for Canada's independence and well - i'm sorry, but we kicked their ass (actually i think there was a hockey game on and the canadians went home to watch the game and drink beer and let us win). and now they worked for us :) (the two canadians sitting at the table with me were my slaves...

The war was in all the papers, I can't beleive he didnt know about it.


Now, remember, i think all the cute boys live in canuckistan, I'm just teasing here... it's my right dangnabbit!

No them's fightin' words!!! Dust off the muskets boys we're goin' to war!

::sigh::

I'm kinda busy right now, can it wait a week or so...

OK... no problem. A week it is. What colour are you going to repaint the White House this time? I think a nice Chartreuse would be good...

to be perfectly honest, knowing why wouldn't change a dang thing for me, it wouldnt bring back my best friend, nor the countless other associates, collegues and friends I lost that day... Knowing Why they did it didn't change my desire to level that entire part of the world -- a few well placed nukes would have been perfectly good therapy. Why? As horrible as it makes me sound - I don't care why they did it - they did it.

I loathe the USA Government and Imperialist economic system but not every citizen of the country, there has to be one or two nice people ;)

It's got nothing to do with nationalism, I feel the same about the UK where I live.

But where do you draw the line between a government and the people who live there?
There are tens of millions of people who believe in their system and actively support and legitimise it and the same numbers who passively accept and therefore condone what is done in their name.

Linkage please. I'd like to explain why it's not a sad or pathetic view (although I disagree with it) without derailing this thread.

/addendum to threadjack:

you can buy rifles and shotguns at Canadian Tire too. for what that's worth

/end addendum

on topic:

I have worked with many Americans over the years, and find them to be the nicest, most polite people around. They go the extra mile to make sure that you are accommodated in all their dealings.

politcally, they are as divisive as Canada, with a seemingly dead heat between rural/conservatism and urban/liberalism outlook. I do agree that their insularity is grating, but given the sway and pure volume of cultural exposure that we receive from them in Canada, it's often hard for us to maintain our *different* perspective. It's no wonder that they accept as gospel what ever the media down there dishes out. It's a bit scary, mind you, because the media tends to atract the extreme or unbalanced people

Al-Qaeda operates on this same theory.

We're assholes.



'nuff said.

American's don't have to pay attention to world affairs, unless what some other country is doing directly affects America in a negative way. As the reigning superpower and the largest economy, other countries have to come here for business. Now knowing about world affairs isn't necessarily bad, but I think it's awfully vain of other countries to think that America should care about what they are doing. Until someone else is a threat to us either economically or militarily, America should focus on America. It's why most other industrialized nations are all taught english in their schools-It's not to deal with the UK. If you want the US to take notice, threaten us (although you might not like the attention you recieve). Otherwise, it's not necessary.

I agree with you on this... I don't argue against it at all.

Just so long as you are aware that is this approach is one of the reasons people elsewhere don't like America.

And... English is important for more than just dealing with the US. It is only one among many reasons don't kid yourself.

I've met nice americans, I've met dumb and stupid americans, just like everywhere else.
What freaks me our is the level of nationalism and the outright ignorance and arrogance towards the "outside world". Also the level of religiousness is somewhat strange.

I won't even start about your current administration...

Yep, I bet a lot of people in nations around the world which have been bombed by the americans think the same way.

I think you are sure the sun revolves around the US.

well i would assume your always being perfectly honest. or should i assume otherwise.......
:lol:

They don't have to like us. I'd prefer if they don't, makes it easier to deal with them. But they will keep taking our money, which makes them little more than sycophants, groupies, or whores take your pick.

There are two major industrialized nations that have English as a primary language (US and UK). Canada is greatly English-speaking, but from what I know from my visits there is that French is the official language in at least one province. In Europe, on the mainland there is no country who primarily speaks English. I don't see what benefit English has over other languages inherently, except for the fact that you can easier deal with US and UK. IIRC, French used to be considered the "universal language". It's definately the primary language in more countries. Also, english is considered one of the more difficult languages to learn. Yet it's the one that most countries choose to focus on.
---

I'm sure this all comes off quite a bit arrogant. Well, it is. But many of the posts in this thread seem to boil down to "we like the people (read-their money) but we don't like their administration (read-their having self-interest)". It seems like world opinion wants the US to be a world welfare agency/ATM machine without having it's own interests. And that's ridiculous. All the UN/WTO talk is silly from a US perspective-those bodies are nothing more than a way for the countries who have less power to try to exert authority over countries who have more power. Why should the US listen to the UN? Seriously, what benefit comes from the UN toward the US that couldn't be gotten outside of it? But for France for instance, there's great benefit to having US (or China or Russia for that matter) held under the yoke of UN authority, because otherwise they lack the power to be able to reasonably influence the US.

I mean really, the world hates the US because the US doesn't pay attention to them? Maybe the rest of the world should start looking more internally instead of worring so much about the US.

Ummm... NO... as individuals.

I think your views have put words into others mouths.

We like the people (read - as individuals) is just as viable in such said statement.

Well.... we probably would except for the fact the the U.S. always comes a knockin'. Either they want to invade your country or get you to join in on a "coalition of the willing."
:)

For those who would get upset about what non-U.S. citizens think: nobody had it in for America. We're all being honest and if it's uncomfortable to hear then this is not the thread to explain why "we are wrong" for thinking so.

well said mate.

That's so nice... you're actually going to let me take my pick of insults? How kind.


English is largely spoken around the world, not only because the US is a superpower but because the UK is both a major economic power and because of the UK's colonial influence. People in these nations were speaking English long before the US was a player. The fact that three of the G8 nations speak English while none of the other share a language, add to the mix, Australia, Hong Kong, New Zealand, India and other former colonies in the British Commonwealth and you have a lot of Nations speaking English.

I don't disagree that the US is part of the reason just that it is the only reason.

---
Other Nations do spend a lot of the time looking internally. The fact is, that the US econmony can't fart with out having an effect on most other nations. Again, no one is disputing the fact that American (hell any nation) doesn't really *need* to look beyond their boarders. But until our nations are completely cut off from each other in some sort of sci-fi future, we are all living on the same planet and we are all exerting some sort of influence on each other. Don't you think it would be somewhat useful to understand something of each other?

As for the policy vs. the individual your reading is off base. I get no financial reward from my friendships with many of the individuals on this board and in the rest of my life. What many react when they say they don't agree with US policy are things like the many military incursions the US has made around the globe, the positions the US takes on things like Kyoto (right or wrong), etc. People are frustrated that your nation has the ability to change their world, their lives and they have no way to stop it. I know this is something that would piss you off. Why not try standing in someone else's shoes for a change... of that's right you don't give a shit (as your post clearly indicates).

Again, I really don't care if American's or anyone cares to look beyond their borders... why should they. Just remember when you have your head in the sand your ass is exposed. Don't be surprised if someone tries to kick you in the ass.

If anything, you have give us a clear example of the brand of American arrogance that pisses off other nations. I thank you for this.

It's already been decided that the rest of the world doesn't like Americans, and are saying we are ignorant, arrogant, deluded, etc. So why should Americans be any more considerate? It's the US who has the power, not the other way around. It's other countries who seek advantage from us, who want our dollars. I know there is a two-way street and America benefits as well, but our deficit would point to the fact that the world is getting more from us than we get from the world. So apparently the rest of the world is dealing with people they obviously find lower and/or unpleasant just for cash. I don't think my "insults" are all that off-target especially since they seem to be true.

As for english, obviously the UK's colonialism has alot to do with english being predominant globally. But I don't think that would be the case currently w/o the US and their economic power, especially since english is taught greatly in public school systems which grew greatly as the UK's power was declining.



It's useful for the world to understand the US. It's not as practical the other way around. Again, with the US having the power, things are usually done on our terms. Other countries have more to gain, so they should be expected to make more of a sacrifice.

Here I think we're getting to the real point. The rest of the world is jealous of the power that America has. They resent the US because they have a great deal of military and economic power.

The way I see things, when there was great polarization between the USSR and the US, it was easy for many nations to get behind the US. After WWII, while America built militarily (which was a big change, as early as the 1910-20's most Americans were proud of how small the military was) the remainder of the western world was able to stand back under the US's protective umbrella and develow their economies. This was really true in NATO, where Europe and the US had an official body that at least partially combined militarily. The US got to act as counter to the USSR (or vice versa if you favor Stalinism/Communism) and play at world police all the while having a positive externality of protection to western Europe. Fast forward to the collapse of the Soviet Union, where America is the remaining top dog. You have a western Europe who has had approx. 50 years of revitalized economy, and no longer have the cold war tensions. You also have an America with a bloated military that was built to fight a war that never happenend, and an enemy that is no longer there. For this the American economy has been severly stunted. Now, to me it seems like Europe expected the US to go into the sunset with the USSR, and allow Europe to get back to dictating the affairs of the world as they had for about 700 years previous to WWII. No gratitude, no understanding, just resentment that the US didn't just disappear as a world power. And that's why I think many Americans didn't understand European reaction to the Iraqi war. For years, they had pretty much been allies, and in the US's first major action post-Cold war they instantly turn on us. Instead of getting behind us, allowing us some leeway, they turned on us like ungrateful dogs. They expected the US to not have personal interests, and wanted the US's power to be a communal power. I personally believe that Europe would've been against us with any action we took post-cold war, simply as a statement against the US and not for any ideological reason. It's not like the US has been horribly egregious with their use of power post-WWII, especially in comparison to what other world powers have done. And I'm also not saying that Europe should be lapdogs, but the vehemence of foreign reaction has been stunning for me at least, and somewhat eyeopening. the rest of the world doesn't seem to want to work together, they seem to want to take what benefit they can from US and nothing more. Essentially, I see Europe as wanting the UN, WTO, global treaties, etc. simply as a check/limiting factor on US power.


Why does so-called American arrogance piss of other nations? You've said yourself that many of my points about American power is true. You say look at it from someone else's shoes, why don't you try the same. Do you think about Uruguay and who happens to be in charge there? Or what about Laos? What are some of the economic problems facing Liechtenstein? Do you know? Well, most other countries are like these in comparison to the US. They have little individual impact on us. Yet you expect the US to pay attention to you while you don't look at these (and other smaller nations). Now who's the arrogant one?

Again, at the federal level is where foreign relations are dealt with in America. If the general public doesn't pay much attention to other countries, it's largely by design. They just have little effect on day-to-day life. As I said, when there's actually a country with enough strength to affect Americans in general, they will pay attention. But until then, it's pretty much a hobby for people, or the domain of people who deal with international business.

now that's a stretch. don't know where you ever got that idea. Certainly wasn't in my mind. oh, and I like my own money just fine thank you.

I've never read anything that smells worse than the many unfounded "facts" that Alansmithee holds true.

No wonder Americans as a whole are despised by so many.

54:40... :crazy:

Good gawd, almighty... you could not have said anything more ignorant given that there is a drive toward a market driven, global economy. My *state* depends on foreign trade for it's survival. Apples, timber, even the geoducks are economic resources dependent on foreign trade. This is NOT a hobby.

Sheesh

The support you've given is obviously of the highest quality and totally disputes what I said...wait there is no support. Just a weak flame attempt. No wonder message board posters are generally thought to be ignorant.

Nice how you missed:

But I guess facts just get in the way of making a point, right :rolleyes: .

And the items you listed make up only a small portion Washington state's total exports (at least in 1999, the most recent data I could find quickly).

But since it's so essential, would you mind giving me a quick briefing of the politics of your state's largest trading partners?


Also an explanation why despite America's apathy toward the rest of the world, why (at least in Washington, according to the data I found) trade has gone increasingly up? I don't know, maybe this obsession with other countries' domestic issues that the world has for the US isn't necessary for trade (at least in the US)?

Oh how little most non-Americans actually know about the United States. This would not be so troubling if they were aware of their ignorance of us; instead, many very intelligent people believe they know a great deal about the United States, when in reality all they know is the rather trite, insipid, or simplistic version they see on their national television newscast and read about in their evening newspaper-- media outlets that are no less malevolent than those operating in Kansas City or Ft. Worth.

The "enlightened" foreigners' opinion of this nation, when ungilded, is akin to a primitive chant that is religiously shouted to the sky five times daily so as not to let in any contrary spirits: People good! Government bad! People good! Government bad! Imperialism, Guns, and Poverty! Imperialism, Guns, and Poverty!

And it's no wonder they have this one-eyed view of the United States. Consider the billions foreigners spend to import and surround themselves with the most popular and crass elements of American culture. If a Hollywood film about "life in America" makes $150 million at home it typically makes three times that much overseas.

To coin a phrase, it is much easier to educate the self-described ignoramous than to enlighten the self-deceived fool.

My experience with how people outside the borders of our nation view us can be summed up with these two little anecdotes:

1. I spent 4 years in Germany. While out with some friends one night in a German restaurant, there was a table of other Americans in the restaurant the same time we were there. They were drinking and being a tad bit obnoxious. Their waiter spoke very little English to them. When the waiter would walk away, they would say to each other, "Why don't they learn to speak English? We saved their asses. They need to learn to respect us." Remember, this was in a German restaurant in Germany. These are the same people who bitch that those who come to America won't learn English.

2. I spent many, many nights in Luxembourg. The club I used to frequent was a melting pot of Europe. The people who worked there came from Spain, Belgium, Italy, England, France, Germany, you name it. I became friends with many of them over the course of a few years. It took them nearly a year to realize that I was American and not British. When they realized I was an American, they were truly shocked. When I asked why, the reply was, "Because most Americans we get in here get loud and insulting and love to fight." They told me it was entertainment for them to watch the Americans come in and bet how long it would be before they were asked to leave.

Granted, with population of nearly 300 million, it's impossible to peg us in any particular fashion, but it's always been my understanding that in most circumstances around the world, the view of Americans is that we're arrogant, ignorant, and obnoxious.

I'd like to add that some Americans like to argue minute political details in general discussion threads.

The truth is, I only tthink about Americans when one of their sitcoms or dramas appear on my Tv. As I reach for the remote control, my only thought is "..is there something else on the other channel?"

I just though I'd repost this for AlladinSane because I think it is important in understanding why many abroad know so much and yet so little about the US.


To add to this...

Many Americans, and rightly so as AlanSmithee shows us above, care not a whit about the outside world until they are told to by the nightly news or (on two occassions) they are attacked on native soil.

I remember well after 9/11 the blank looks on *many* Americans faces, "Why do they hate us?", "Why did this happen?". Many have no idea what the support of their lifestyle costs in terms of asserting "American interests" globally (largely it is the western nations and not just America that bears the brunt of this, America being the "top dog" just wears the biggest target). It isn't just the military incursions but it is also corporate interests around the globe that trample the rights of individuals, it is institutions like the IMF that insist on privatizing natural resources like water, it is a skewed view through American cultural industries and if you stir in a large number of tourists as described above you start to get a picture of why people don't like the US.

Is this view correct. Sometimes, not always but sometimes. It doesn't matter if they've got the whole picture. It matters that this is how they understand you and keeping your head stuck in the sand and not paying attention to, or worse not caring how your corporations and governement are treating other nations is what leads things like 9/11.

What I am getting at is yes, it is important to understand what is happening in the rest of the world, especially considering (as is rightly pointed out) the US is by far the 100 pound economic gorilla in the room. As I said above, the US has the power and when they shift so shifts other parts of the world. US citizens effected by economic shifts can exert some sort of power through elections and the court system. Foreigners effected by the US, have two choices... roll over or roll over. For some, rolling over enough times leaves a sour taste in your mouth.

Steady kiddo, before the mods get at you. Manners are important too. Demonstrates good breeding.

I agree that the US government has made some bad decisions concerning international politics, but there are a few points that most outsiders don't realize.

Since the early 1900's, the US government has taken a view on helping world issues. If there is an international issue that needs to be solved but the funds or manpower are preventing it, the US has made the decision to intervene. Sometimes this helps, sometimes it does not. <B>At least we're trying to help</B>. Most "bad" things are reported on the news overseas by these descriptions. When's the last time you saw news on how many dollars are being spent in South Africa? They're not exactly in a good situation.

Which would benefit more, the US attempting to help world issues and failing at some, or the US completely abandoning those in need? Our government realized in the early 1900's that we were going to become the world superpower, hence the president declaring the US as the country that intervenes in times of need. There is good intervention and bad intervention, but it's debatable to say if no intervention at all is better.

Just a little insight from an average American on how our government works concerning international issues. We're not out to concur the world or take over your oil. Our government acts when there's a world issue and no one is doing anything about it, and with that comes the good and the mistakes.

-Lasereth

Lasereth, I appreciate your optimism. I agree we're not all bad, and there are lots of good things we do. However... there are lots of bad things too, to put it simply. As much as I'd like to believe the way you do... I'm pretty cynical at this point. Oil is more of a factor than any of us would like to admit. But I digress, as usual.

Thanks to all who are being honest - I appreciate the perspective. In fact, I'm surprised more people aren't more against the US! Rude American posts aside, most of us can appreciate an outside point of view, if only for the information. Perhaps people aren't getting the right info about us, our policies, outside the US, and perhaps they are; but we don't know until someone tells us. Thanks!

I don't disagree that the US does a lot of good around the World. Just for clarity: A LOT OF GOOD. :) Many may dispute the intentions and motivations behind the reason for this "good' but I won't. Good is good is good (be it employment, relief efforts, etc.).

This doesn't change the fact that a lot of bad stuff also happens (as you rightly point out).

1) the bad stuff looks better on tv news (sad but true and given where poeple get their information from this is where opinions are made).
2) the bad stuff isn't always being done by the government. US controlled corporations (Fruit Companies in Central America, Oil Companies in Aftrica, for example) have been doing some bad things as well and these create much more personal impressions than any newscast ever would.

I am not saying that other nations and their corporations are not just as guilty of these actions... they are. The truth is, you want to be a Superpower you are going to get a lot of slings and arrows.

I'm pretty eager to get out of the US. At least for a while.

Just wanted to point out that until the end of 1941, when America was directly attacked by the Axis, the vast majority of americans supported the isolationist stance that was reflected in governmental policy. Throughout the 1800's the USA clung steadfast to the ideal of being independant of britain and basically ignored whatever was going on overseas. It wasn't until world war 1 that the U.S. broke policy to help out, but it was as an associate power instead of an ally. At the end of the war, they never joined the league of nations and returned to isolationism, a stance mainly supported by staunch republicans. Political support for this ideal grew in strength throughout the 20's and 30's.

1940 was the turning point for isolationism. Germany and italy were winning, and americans were worried that they might be next. Given that scenario, the majority, by the autumn of 1940, were willing to help defeat of the Axis even at the risk of war.

But in 1940-1941 many still supported the non-interventionist viewpoint. Although isolationists failed to block proposals by the Roosevelt administration to help the Allies with methods short of war, 80 percent of Americans opposed any declaration of war against the Axis. Not until after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, and Germany and Italy declared war on the US on December 11 did they declare war against the Axis. Afterwards thje roosevelt administration created the united nations, and american policy was supportive of helping other countries.

Please tell me that alansmithee is a joke account. Please.

Are you not a message board poster?

No he's real, he just had his name changed because he didn't want his name associated with his posts... :lol:


for those who don't get the joke: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000647/bio

Charlatan that is a great movie. :D Very zany.

Not to ruffle any feathers here, but I don't think that why we were attacked mattered in the days and months after 9/11. At that point what mattered was who was responsible, and where were they? Did we have a right to rataliate? You bet. The who and why questions were plastered all over the TV and newspapers for months.. 9/11 rocked most Americans to the core... I can remember watching it unfold on TV at work, and even convicts were moved to tears...many of them wishing they could get out and enlist in the military to help. All day long, except for mass movement, such as feeding times, you coudl walk down any cellblock or into any dorm and here a pin drop almost - the only sounds being the TV and a few convicts talking. I am no softie really, but hearing some of the comments I heard really moved me.

The need to know why it happened was second to who and how then, and even now. Obviously we would like to think we can prevent another occurance, and we might be able to. Overall we have doen a good job in tightening security, and we have a long ways to go.

I just think that had this happened in any other country, canada or elsewhere, the reaction would have been similar.

Why do you fear the U.S.?

Care to elaborate?

Well Said. And unfortunately all Americans are judged accordingly as a result. And, on the flip side a lot of us Americans judge people from other countries similarly.

Thanks for posting that.......... I learned something today.

hm.
WOW

alansmithee makes great sensce <sp?>
Do me a favor
one favor.
Imagine~
if you will
a world without
America.

Lemme tell you son, every thing good and holy would just goddamn evaporate!

Are you saying the world did not exist until 1789? I don't understand.

Sure we've made a lot of contributions throughout our short history, but I highly doubt we're the be-all, end-all of this world and those in it.

J.J> yeah.. I said it.

I'm asking you....Good Sir...Imagine.

When It's all said and done we are indeed
what seperates Law from Chaos.

We are what Prevents

We are The S.S PROPHYLAPTICUS.

If I as a young adult Canadian were to try and sum up my thoughts on America, I imagine they would be considered by most as naive and judgemental of a country based on its media. And I admit, I don't really pay all that much attention on America. Whether its their politics, people, finances, whatever, I am not mature enough to see past what I read in the newspaper, or see on the news. Heck, I might as well delete all this, because at the end of the day, I've got no answer, whatever country it may be. And maybe its because I'm preoccupied with my anatomy and ecology courses, maybe its because I'm just starting my own independent life. Or maybe its because I have barely lived out a quarter of my so-predicted lifespan, and have plenty to experience and plenty of things formulate opinions on.
So, to be blunt, I think America has a lot to learn from, just like I do.

settie...
You are so right.

but let me ask you. If your country were to be invaded(by a bug or by Chinese soldiers from the north) WHO?
I say WHO will you ask help of?

It will be us.

It will be us.

goddamn it will be the U S of A.

:thumbsup: And I don't mind that one freakin' bit. Actually, I'm very satisfied living in the country next to the richest one, cause, whether we admit it or not, we are here for each other. We're both on this continent, and if we can't keep peace and help each other out, we're SOL.

Why are we being asked to expand and perpetuate our monkeysphere?

Aint Though:)

Dammit, my secret's out. :eek:

No, but seriously, nice find. Not many people notice the significance.

But more on topic, despite all the hand-wringing and America bashing, nobody has actually refuted anything I've said. It seems obvious that much of the world currently has a unfavorable opinion of the US administration. And also, despite the "Administration bad, people good" mantra chanted, closer inspection seems to show that the rest of the world doesn't even care too much for the American people. Now, as one of the (supposedly few) Americans who does pay attention to global affairs, I was hoping that this thread might give me some insight into whether or not all this negative feeling was something that Americans should work to change, or if it's just typical resentment of a group of people who have more money/power/whatever. Because if America (and it's people) are doing something egregiously wrong, it should be changed. But if it's just sour grapes, I have no expectation of everyone liking America. And honestly, it's seeming alot more of the sour grapes than the actual wrongdoing.

alansmithee... Forget That Shit!
:)
Yeah but....we dig it
all.

To our defense, we've invaded fewer countries than most other major nations, even in the past 150 years. The ones we have invaded (barring Iraq) were either A) after they had been taken over by a hostile force (i.e. Kuwait, Europe in World War I and II, or Afghanistan), or B) after some other country asked us to (i.e. Vietnam). The only major nations I can think of that have invaded fewer countries are either in Asia or are Canada. Now, I'm not saying that invading Iraq was the right move, but, hey, try to give us a little credit. We're not warmongerers like the Mongols or the Romans.

I would really like to know what exactly what part of the American government people don't like (besides the executive administration, which I must remind you only has 1/3 of the power here). Is it the party system, because I can tell you at least one American who loves his government but hates the party system. I'm really curious as to what people don't like about it so maybe we can fix it.

Here is my view on the US. First let me say that my mother lives in FLA. I live in Ontario. Ive been to the US so many times for extended periods so I feel that I have the right to voice my honest oppinions about stuff.

There are huge differences between the US and Canada. Most US people dont seem to feel that it is necessary to give a crap about anything that is going on outside of their own country, hell their state in most cases. They feel that they live in the best, strongest, and smartest country in the world. It sort of makes them dumfounded when I tell them that for the last 10 years (with 1 year exception) Canada has been ranked the best place to live in the world. That China, and North Korea both have larger armies than the US and most likely if they both faced off one on one the US would loose just to shear numbers, politics, and technology.

The US spends too much time thinking about Military stradgety so that people get impatient and then the US thinks that it has to move fast to save their reputation. Thus making errors and mistakes that normal countries wouldnt make.

America needs to step back and watch itself for a little while like the rest of the world does. Americans have a superiority complex and ignorance complex that I find very interesting. They feel that they are so important to the world but are ignorant to learn and investigate why they think that way or (heaven forbids) if another area of the world is better than they are.

America's children are one of the lowest ranked in education in the big 8. They have the highest mortality rate do to race on race crime. They have the highest hate crime rate. They have the highest general crime rate. They have the highest murder rate (by far). They have the highest substance abuse rate. These are not just because the US has no many people. Scaled down to each member of the big 8's population or inflated to their population it still is considerably high in comparision to the others.

Why do you think that most of the world hates the US? Becasue your portait of yourselves on TV and other outlets are selfish, cocky, arrogant, mean, power hungry, and self centered country.

Calm down America and look at yourself in the mirror. You have more flaws than you think you do and throwing money at them instead of sitting down and trying to ask for help on how to solve them, instead of threatening anyone with an oppinion on what you should do, might actually assist you in the long run.

CRX Forum

If you think we would lose a war vs. china or N. Korea you have no understanding of modern warfare. It isn't just numbers (as most successful militaries would attest), it's quality. And China and N. Korea lack severly in comparison to quality of military technology. I don't think anyone with any understanding of military opperation would argue that.

And as for us asking for help on how to solve our problems, when there's a country that's definitely better, it might be something to consider. But currently, all you can do is trade one set of problems for another. And outside of UK, no other nation would have any sort of experience in how to handle being the sole top dog in the world (and UK's expertise might be somewhat dated). And how many other nations are asking the US (who must've done something right to reach this position) on how to run their affairs? Again, all you talk about is American arrogance, while touting your country as the best place in the world to live and assuming that you have no problems internally.

I don't see how this thread could have possibly given you any real insight, when you're constantly posting messages asserting the complete hegemony of the United States, with what I consider to be extreme hubris. As if the rest of the world needs reminding.

It's a mistake to equate military technology with quality and superiority. I believe it would take very little in the way of technology in order to hand us our asses, given the proper strategy and tactics, and cause.

You might be interested to read the writings of William S. Lind, and his notion of fourth generation war.

http://d-n-i.net/lind/lind_archive.htm

I'm glad you've got it figured out.
Makes me wish the more complex things were this simple.

This is my bad american thoughts.
Americans I've met (and I've met a lot...I went to an american high school) tended to be ignorant about the world around them and were willing to be spoon fed whatever the school, government, media fed them. They seem to think everybody wants to be an American or at least live there (never have, never will). They tended to be fat, loud and obnoxious (USA, USA, USA!!) with rude or no manners. They hold their forks a knives ass backwards or don't use a knife at all when cutting. It's all about americans and everyone else in the world is not important (unless it's in your interest), even your own poor citizens arn't worth shit. It's a shame so many are such right-wing anal types as you could do so much more for the good of the world. Typical American beer sucks and your drug laws are rediculous.
Harsh, I know, but the poster asked.

I'll post my good thoughts later. and yes, I have lots.

I read up some on his concept of 4GW. It seems to be little more than guerilla war. Essentially, there's no true front to apply traditional military force. But one of the key components of it seemed to be decentralization of the military away from the state, which I seriously doubt would happen in N. Korea or China. Also, I'm personally not quite sure if I think that this qualifies as true warfare, simply because it lacks the unification that war traditionally has. There seems to be no unity of purpose, and is merely murder and terrorism for it's own sake.


Personally, I think the rest of the world DOES need reminding. The rest of the world seems to want the US to deal with them as equals, when that's just not the case. And these countries don't deal with nations they feel lower as equals, which seems fairly hypocritical. I think much of the international outrage against the US's unilateral action isn't because they dislike what the US did, but are resentful that they lack the capacity to attempt any large-scale unilateral action. Essentially, I am trying to see if the dislike of America is directed at America, or would it be directed at any country with the same disproportionate amount of power.

Whew! I hope so!

I wasn't necessarily talking about North Korea or China, I was talking about the problem of equating tehnological superiority with military superiority. But, I think any people, given the right resolve, could accomplish this type of warfare against a foreign army.

Unity of purpose is precisely what drives fourth generation war. Our military concentrates on protection of our troops and technological superiority, while fourth generation combatants chip away at our military infrastructure, personnel, and resolve, killing us a few at a time, until we are defeated. Tough to fight that. Whether or not you think it qualifies as true warfare, it eats away at our military by taking advantage of our weaknesses.

With great power also comes great responsibility. That part of the equation is missing in your argument. If the United States acts simply as a bully, as the king of the hill, then other countries will attempt to knock us off that hill, through economic, political, or military means. They will slowly chip away at our strength and our resolve, by taking advantage of our weaknesses (rather than confronting us on our strengths) until we are weakened or defeated. Exactly like fourth generation warfare.

We obviously carry the biggest stick. If we swing it around with extreme arrogance, we also make ourselves the biggest target.

I would dispute this somewhat, but it's probably off-topic here. I'll have to read more of Lind, though. It seems quite interesting.


The reason it's missing from my arguement is because I don't see America as Spider-man. America has it's own interests to protect. And it seems to me like any American action that works toward it's on interests primarily is instantly considered bullying. It's not so much that swinging our stick makes us a target, it's the fact that we're made a target by our status, so we need to swing the stick for survival.

(what was it that turned this humble thread into the politics board? Something in the middle just went "BOOM!" it seems...)

I don't know very many Americans, but these forums alone prove to me that there are many intelligent, well mannered people from the States, who I would be more than willing to spend an evening with. That doesn't mean that there aren't Americans that I greatly dislike, but so it goes.

I find the way that America presents itself abrasive. It seems to be a fast and disposable society in some areas, and yet also archaically slow and conservative in others. I find the government's general distaste for secularism strange and contradictory to what I thought the United States were supposed to stand for. Each time I read the news, I find the intellectual development of the country to be slowing and advancing, at war with itself.

The United States of America is our great defender, and the home and birthplace of hundreds of the worlds brilliant minds. They are a terrifying and comforting country, filled with wealth and poverty, justices and injustices.

My opinion of the United States isn't very well educated. I admit my ignorance of detailed American foreign policy and the way that Americans actually live. I've only been to the States once, and I was still a child then. I barely remember anything. I hope everything I said makes sense. If not, I can try to clarify if you're interested.

Hmmm...interesting thread.

Quick question: alansmithee: objectivism. your take? your language choice is interesting in your earlier posts.

Carrying on, I would have to say that I think that one of the underlying factors in the current discussion is that Americans have an inherent sense of the frontier still built into our national conscious. This was, at one time, a place with unlimited possibility for expansion, and isolation due to limited communication and transportation. Those days are over, but we don't always act like it. We have a combination of an inherited sense of this isolationism, combined with the tremendous economic/political clout we yield. Other countries, or regions (i.e. the EU: power, non-isolated - Australia: isolated, non-power) may have one of these qualities, but not both. This combination fosters the sense of arrogance displayed by alansmithee (right or wrong), and I think it's ultimately what others dislike about americans.

I think that despite the fact that the us is the current world superpower, our claim on that power is somewhat tenuous, but we don't realize it. This is where I think your argument may have some problems, alan. We are increasingly dependent on the rest of the world, but we fail to anticipate the probability that knowledge of the surrounding world would be to our benefit in the future, if not now. Let's assume that the US, much like every other dominant civilization in the history of mankind, eventually falls. Would your position, alansmithee, be that the US should not worry about other countries until this happens? How would you react to the concept that perhaps this fall can be prevented or delayed by incorporating consideration of much of the world into our policies? Would you say that this is backhanded concession of power from the strong to the weak?

And no, I don't think Joe Schmoe the hot-dog vendor (no disrespect to hotdog vendors) or Ellen Bellen the secretary at the health club (no offense to Ellens either) should sit around worrying about just what in the fuck the Basque People are up to these days, but a slow incorporation of more international awareness, I feel, would be to our benefit.

For what it's worth, I don't think I'm the only person to see it this way. Learning a second language (might I recommend Spanish?) is increasingly becoming valued in educational circles and for job prospects, corporations are rapidly expanding to international conglomerations, people are travelling more than ever, and communication abilities are vasting taking off. Pretty soon, I'm not sure that we'll be able to differentiate, as easily, American concerns from international concerns. Like it or lump it, it's happening.

Tongue. ....too....strong.....can't....keep...biting...

It was clear from the outset that the moment any of us said anything bad about the U.S. that someone would take offense and chime in. Unfortunately that is not the focus of the thread, which I believe was to derive a varied impression of what non-Americans think of the place. Perhaps someone should start a thread titled - "why non-American opinions of the U.S.A. are wrong."

True enough... (i posted this in my journal because it amused the heck out of me -- it also scared me) Conversation overheard in the airport. Mother talking to her daughter who was probably in her late teens. They are sharing a bag of nuts. Darling daughter asks mom what kind of nut something is. Mom says its a filbert. Mmmm filberts. They [make awesome nut butter. I digress

Mom then goes on to educate darling daughter that filberts were named after a president. Not many presidents get nuts named after them so he must have been great

I'm still thinking president filbert? She from mars, or canada :D? Mom didn't disappoint. Ah yes the great mullet filbert. President. I had to board at that point but I wondered if perhaps the mullet was named after him also.

Near as I can figure, she was talking about the underrated Millard Fillmore...


the trivia buff in me remembers that fillmore's claim to fame (other than being the name of the junior high school that marcia brady went to) was that he was the only president to never be elected ( bush bashers, shut up) Filmore was the 13th president and succeeded Taylor --after he died - but filmore was never elected president in his own right.

However, I'm hoping this woman was in the minority, I'd say the US is pretty well educated, just not overly educated in affairs that don't deal with the US directly.

mal I think Cellophanedeity was referring to her own opinion of the U.S. not being very well informed. Maybe we can think of this as a freudian slip of the ears? :)

Cello is very sweet and very nice, I figured she was calling us stupid in a very nice way... And based on what i see of people, she wouldnt be completely wrong..

if the news coverage i see overseas were my only source... then i don't think i'd like the president either.

i'm open to suggestions that balanced foreign policy coverage may be lacking within the US... but trust me, if my experience is any indicator, the foreign coverage of internal US affairs is generally very poor.

Hmmmm, the trivia buff in me believes that Gerald Ford was never elected, as well.

He could swing a great pardon, though. :)

nothing to say

I was thinking the same... also LB Johnson, Harry Truman, Theodore Roosevelt, no?

I meant first president... gawd you people are harsh...