Pet dog=children? Are our friends nuts? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

balderdash111 · 08-29-2005, 02:34 PM

Hello all

Some friends and I are trying to organize a gathering, where we would use one of the groups' parents' house (did I get those posessive apostrophes right?) while the parents are away. We have the parents' permission, of course. The parents have no pets and are very clean.

All of us are married and those of us with kids are bringing them.

One couple, however, has no kids but has a dog. We haven't seen the dog in a few months (we all live in different states - thus the gathering), but back then it was pretty hyperactive, and we think that continues today. Not so much destructive, as frantic and jump-prone.

The friend whose parents' house we're using does not want the dog to come to the house. Mostly it's an issue of hair and dog smells. We are not worried about the dog and the kids (though there will be at least 4 infants, and we're not sure if the dog has been around those before), it's apparently just a "don't want a dog in my house" issue.

The gathering is in the winter, so keeping the dog outside is not really an option.

So, the friends who own the dog were informed of this, and reacted very strongly. They said that telling them they can't bring the dog is like them telling us we can't bring our children. And when it was suggested that the dog could sleep in the garage, again the response was that it was like saying the children could stay in the garage. Final position - if the dog can't come, they won't come (or they will stay someplace in the same town where they can keep the dog - which sort of defeats the purpose of the gathering)

Now, my feeling is that this is a bit of an overreaction. A dog can stay in a kennel, and - though I like dogs personnally - I can understand someone who says he/she doesn't want a dog in his/her home.

So are our friends nuts?

Ustwo · 08-29-2005, 02:34 PM

Very common in childless couples. We have good friends who act like this too. I find it quite sad.

*Nikki* · 08-29-2005, 02:49 PM

I find it quite sad that people don't try to understand this. Animals are members of the family, and a lot of people who are childless do indeed consider them children. I know my pets are my children.

I think your friends deserve your understanding and sensitivity to this issue.

cyrnel · 08-29-2005, 03:00 PM

These are friends you want to keep? Keep in mind that by making the sacrifice for friendship and finding an alternate location you disarm the problem and make them more receptive to discussion. The reverse holds true as well.

Always simpler for outsiders, but which is easier? Which is worth more?

Seeker · 08-29-2005, 03:07 PM

I have a child and two dogs...

On an overnight stay, I couldn't see that a dog would be any different to a small child. They all smell and get into mischief.

The hair would be a one off problem and I can't see it being such a big deal... I think the friends parents are being a bit pedantic... in my mind, if that's how they feel about their dog and you want this gathering, this is something you choose to deal with and if you can't deal with a small issue of dog hair then what is life all about.

Coppertop · 08-29-2005, 03:14 PM

Equating pets with children is insane. They are not one and the same. Your dog is going to die a natural death long before you. It is not going to give you grandchildren. It doesn't carry on your genes to the next generation. It will not carry on your name. And don't get me started on those dog sweaters. Ugh. I have had many pets over the years and have loved them all, but that doesn't make them anything more than pets.

I daresay anyone who treats a pet like a child has no idea what raising a child is truly like.

Menoman · 08-29-2005, 03:32 PM

pets = family

That's all I'm gonna say about it. People who say otherwise haven't had pets/haven't cared for their pets with the affection they deserved.

shakran · 08-29-2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Nikki*

I find it quite sad that people don't try to understand this. Animals are members of the family, and a lot of people who are childless do indeed consider them children. I know my pets are my children.

I think your friends deserve your understanding and sensitivity to this issue.

Hold on a second. First off, we're making a false assumption here, that being that it's not OK to tell people "no kids" at a gathering.

That's just plain wrong. If you're hosting, you set the rules. If your guests don't like that, you're not forcing them to come. Many adult gatherings specify no children.

There's nothing wrong with asking that guests not bring their kids, be they human or canine.

And look at it this way. You're using someone else's house. They're nicely letting you use it but are asking that you not get dog hair and dog drool all over the place. Doesn't seem like too much to ask to me.

And before I get jumped on, I have several dogs myself and have loved dogs since I was a little kid. But just as with parents and their children, people do not have the right to impose their pets on others.

eribrav · 08-29-2005, 03:55 PM

My wife and I treat our dog better than most children are treated. She is with us constantly, anytime we are not at work. We take her swimming, to training classes and even set up play dates for her with her dog buddies.

Having said that, I know we always respect people's wishes if they don't want her around. It's up to us to decide if we want to spend time with those folks. If they're our friends, and we value their friendship, then we make other arrangements for the dog when we are with them. Quite frankly I think it's rude to do otherwise. It doesn't even matter WHY they don't want the dog around them, because that's not the point.

ngdawg · 08-29-2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coppertop

Equating pets with children is insane. They are not one and the same. Your dog is going to die a natural death long before you. It is not going to give you grandchildren. It doesn't carry on your genes to the next generation. It will not carry on your name. And don't get me started on those dog sweaters. Ugh. I have had many pets over the years and have loved them all, but that doesn't make them anything more than pets.

I daresay anyone who treats a pet like a child has no idea what raising a child is truly like.

I agree 98%. The other 2%-they are placing the love they have on this pet, so they themselves equate it with a human child. Having, then losing my dog was the worst pain I think I ever had (and I have two kids).
For them to impose and insist that if the dog can't go, they won't either, though, I agree, is ridiculous. Just say, "Sorry, we'll miss you." It's their choice, after all.

Sweetpea · 08-29-2005, 04:04 PM

It's not that your friends are nuts, it's just that sometimes people WITH OR WITHOUT CHILDREN (it's not just the childless couples i have seen act like this) It's that they are unusually attatched.

i'm a dog lover, i have a dog. We spoil her. We are also a childless couple. And we treat her like our 'child.' even though i understand she is nothing like actually raising a child.. we don't want kids for a reason

However, i understand when people are a 'pet free' home and we just don't take her with us when this kind of situation arises. You friends should be more understanding, i would never assume to bring my dog unless i had specifically asked... so although our dog is like our child, i understand that the fact that she is a pet puts her in a different criteria than an actual child.

Your friends sound very attatched to their dog and i understand that semtiment, however, just gently tell them it's nothing against their "inset dog's name here," it's just that you feel it's not appropriate for them to bring their dog.

Sweetpea

shesus · 08-29-2005, 04:07 PM

Hmm, this is a touchy issue. I had a dog as a child that I loved very much. She was family and I can understand how these people feel. However, we never took her on vacation or to family/friend gatherings, unless she was invited. As was mentioned earlier though, do you want to keep these people as friends? It sounds as if they are very offended by the uninvitation of the dog.
I think that dogs can be like children, especially toddlers. They both get into things, make messes, act obnoxious, and are loud at times. So there can be a comparison to the behavior between a dog and a child.

Sue · 08-29-2005, 04:09 PM

I call my cat my little girl. I've had her for almost 7 years now. When I go away though, I'm able to have some watch her and give her her food and water. It shouldn't be too difficult to find someone to watch this person's dog so the human can attend the gathering.

Grasshopper Green · 08-29-2005, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohh_shesus

I think that dogs can be like children, especially toddlers. They both get into things, make messes, act obnoxious, and are loud at times. So there can be a comparison to the behavior between a dog and a child.

I agree. Whenever hubby and I go to a friends house for a gathering, we ask if it's ok to bring our son. All of our friends are childless and frankly, some of them aren't comfortable around children. I would assume some people (like me! I have a dog phobia) feel the same way about animals. I don't think it is unreasonable to want your furniture and rugs free of dog hair if you don't own dogs.

alansmithee · 08-29-2005, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by balderdash111

Hello all

Some friends and I are trying to organize a gathering, where we would use one of the groups' parents' house (did I get those posessive apostrophes right?) while the parents are away. We have the parents' permission, of course. The parents have no pets and are very clean.

All of us are married and those of us with kids are bringing them.

One couple, however, has no kids but has a dog. We haven't seen the dog in a few months (we all live in different states - thus the gathering), but back then it was pretty hyperactive, and we think that continues today. Not so much destructive, as frantic and jump-prone.

The friend whose parents' house we're using does not want the dog to come to the house. Mostly it's an issue of hair and dog smells. We are not worried about the dog and the kids (though there will be at least 4 infants, and we're not sure if the dog has been around those before), it's apparently just a "don't want a dog in my house" issue.

The gathering is in the winter, so keeping the dog outside is not really an option.

So, the friends who own the dog were informed of this, and reacted very strongly. They said that telling them they can't bring the dog is like them telling us we can't bring our children. And when it was suggested that the dog could sleep in the garage, again the response was that it was like saying the children could stay in the garage. Final position - if the dog can't come, they won't come (or they will stay someplace in the same town where they can keep the dog - which sort of defeats the purpose of the gathering)

Now, my feeling is that this is a bit of an overreaction. A dog can stay in a kennel, and - though I like dogs personnally - I can understand someone who says he/she doesn't want a dog in his/her home.

So are our friends nuts?

Yes, they are nuts. Anyone who would equate any human with a dog (or any other animal) is insane, and should be dealt with as such.

alansmithee · 08-29-2005, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menoman

pets = family

That's all I'm gonna say about it. People who say otherwise haven't had pets/haven't cared for their pets with the affection they deserved.

Or people who say that pets = family are unhealthily attached to their pets.

clavus · 08-29-2005, 04:37 PM

Three things:

1. I have pets. I have kids. They aren't the same. I would beat my dog to death with my cat if it meant saving my kids.

2. It is A-OK for a person to say who is and is not welcome in their home for whatever reason they choose. Your house, your rules.

3. It is pretty goddamn pretentious to assume your pets are invited anywhere you are.

balderdash111 · 08-29-2005, 04:53 PM

Wow, quite a few responses already!

A few points of clarification.

1) There is very little risk that friendships will dissolve over this. For one thing - though I didn't mention it before - it is only one half of this couple that has expressed this opinion. The other half is an extemely mellow fellow who I can basically guarantee doesn't feel this strongly about it (and is not likely to tell the complaining half to chill out).

2) The house is a one-of-a-kind opportunity. Big, comfortable and free. Relocation is not an easy alternative.

3) Some of you seem to be thinking of this as a situation where a couple has decided not to have kids (or are unable to do so) and so have transferred their love and affection to a pet. Not the case. These two will have children eventually. They are newly married and settling down long-term education and employment plans.

4) The dog is not small. Think small golden retriever size. Or big collie.

5) We're not devaluing the love and affection felt for pets. I've had many pets myself and they were near and dear to me. The specific issue here is whether, for a few nights, it is unreasonable to ask someone to leave the dog somewhere else when they are coming to a home.

6) Nobody has made this point yet, but 3 toddlers and 5 infants can easily make just as much of a mess as a dog. We get the hypocrisy.

snowy · 08-29-2005, 05:11 PM

My aunt and her wife don't have children and see their pets as their kids. But even so, they will put their dogs in a good kennel if that's what the event in question requires.

These people need to relax. Sometimes you just have to leave the "kids" home with the sitter.

raeanna74 · 08-29-2005, 05:21 PM

Have you asked your friends about how they feel the dog will react? It sounds like they are coming from a long distance and as they don't have kids either the entire situation could be extremely stressful for the dog. Honestly, I love my pets. But I wouldn't consider dragging them on a long drive to a gathering with a lot of people and a number of small children who will guarenteed pull and yank on the pets ears, tail, fur etc. This kind of situation would be torture for almost any pet let alone one who is not accustomed to small children. PLUS this kind of stressful situation can often trigger a dog to start peeing indiscriminantly thus ruining and leaving bad smells in the carpet of the host's home.

You could bring these points to the attention of your Pet Parents and see how they respond. Otherwise you can tell them that you are just not able to afford accomodations elseware but that if they are capable of securing and funding other accomodations where they are welcome to bring their pet that you will notify all other's involved of the change. Give them the "out" by offering this solution but showing them that you cannot foot the bill.

Honestly - I doubt highly if they argue with the department store about their policy of not allowing pets in the store. Do they take their pet to every hotel they go to? Many hotels do not allow pets or if they do they charge extra. YES children CAN make a mess just as easily as a dog BUT children's messes can be contained much easier - Um Diapers? Bibs? Playpens? I just don't see the comparison here. Pets can be LOVED just as deeply but they are more capable of causing serious damage to belongings.

Carno · 08-29-2005, 05:28 PM

Your friends are insane. Anyone who treats their pet like a child is insane. It's a stupid beast, how could you even compare it to a human being?? I love dogs, but I understand that they are animals, not people. If you think you're stupid animal is deserving of everything that kids are, then you are quite possibly a nut job.

vautrain · 08-29-2005, 09:14 PM

Like many of the posters in this thread, your friends need to lighten up. I don't like people bringing their children uninvited to my home, and I wouldn't like them bringing their pets uninvited, either. Mostly because my dog would try to eat them. The pets, that is. The kids would be fine, if well-behaved, but I can't stand ill-behaved children.

As an aside, maybe your friends' dog would be more welcome if the dog were properly groomed and bathed, and well-behaved. A dog that is jump-prone really wouldn't be welcome in my home. I wouldn't tolerate it from my dog, and I won't tolerate it from someone else's dog. Just like children, they need to be taught manners.

ryfo · 08-29-2005, 09:31 PM

We cant have children and do have two dogs that are treated like kids...but..I wouldnt expect them to be invited out to a bbq or party just because other kids are going to be there. I love my dogs others may not I respect that. Why dont you suggest the dogs go for a sleepover at some other pet friendly house? It is not your house after all the weekend is at, so rules are rules. BTW I agree with vautain, uninvited kids are just as bad, at least the dogs can be told to sit and go outside.

skier · 08-29-2005, 10:52 PM

I believe our society and media really personalizes animals, especially pets. Many shows, cartoons, movies, literature lend human emotion and cognition to animals so that the audience can relate to the character. We also belong to an increasingly urban culture that really separates "man" from "nature". Some of my friends in the city have never even been on a farm, seen a cow or chicken up close.

What i'm trying to say is, it's much easier now to get a skewed perspective on the value of a pet. Your parents treat your pet dog like family. You are fed poppycock from the T.V. about animals- watching them walk and talk and think deep thoughts, crack jokes and plot dastardly deeds, and all the rest. During this time, you've never had to kill for your meat, or see a cow up close before it's a burger. Never really made that distinction between Animal and Human.

Your friends are crazy. Pets should stay pets.

jorgelito · 08-29-2005, 11:27 PM

Maybe someone is allergic to dogs? That would be reason enough... and you really can't argue with that right?

highthief · 08-30-2005, 01:37 AM

Good grief! Why can't some pet owners respect the wishes of the people who are hosting the event? They don't want your mangy mutt in the house, then the mangy mutt doesn't come to the house.

We love our pets, have spent untold gobs of cash on them at the vets and special food, etc, but A) they don't compare to the kids and B) more importantly, if a host says "no pets" - for whatever reason, be it allergies or just a preference - then its no pets and stop whining about it.

Vincentt · 08-30-2005, 03:40 AM

Most of these responses… well they have no tact.

If you just say ‘bitch, fuck your dog’, you are going to have a shit storm.

You should have a phone call with “Please understand, but dogs_name can’t go… we would still really love to have you guys out, but if you can’t make it, we will understand.

The problem is though… if they come will the women start up the fight again at the party?
You might just have to count them out.

lurkette · 08-30-2005, 06:24 AM

There are two issues here:

1. Obeying the wishes of the homeowner. If she doesn't want pets in her home, it would be politic to respect those wishes, just as much as if she had said she'd prefer no children younger than 5. Some people don't like dogs. Some people don't like babies. For those who equate pets with children, an uncontrolled, rambunctious dog is functionally a toddler in its capacity to wreak havoc and make messes.

2. Equating a dog with a human: I love my dog and she is essentially a part of our family. However, having lost a brother that I basically raised, and having lost beloved pets, I can tell you that there is a difference. But that doesn't mean I don't love her and treat her like my child. The difference is that I don't expect everyone else in the world to think the same way I do, and I don't get offended if they don't. The couple (or wife of the couple, as it sounds like) who is getting all huffy is not getting huffy about the dog, it sounds like, as much as she's getting huffy about her feelings being disregarded. There's no reason she can't find a "babysitter" for the dog. She's not nuts, just a little self-absorbed.

balderdash111 · 08-30-2005, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurkette

<snip>

The couple (or wife of the couple, as it sounds like) who is getting all huffy is not getting huffy about the dog, it sounds like, as much as she's getting huffy about her feelings being disregarded. There's no reason she can't find a "babysitter" for the dog. She's not nuts, just a little self-absorbed.

That's probably the most insightful observation here (no disrespect intended to other posters, of course)

denim · 08-30-2005, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Nikki*

I find it quite sad that people don't try to understand this. Animals are members of the family, and a lot of people who are childless do indeed consider them children. I know my pets are my children.

I suspect the main reason people think this way is because they've never had children and have NO idea what it's like. Comparing a feeling you know with one you don't is bogus.

frogza · 08-30-2005, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menoman

pets = family

That's all I'm gonna say about it. People who say otherwise haven't had pets/haven't cared for their pets with the affection they deserved.

I am an animal lover, I have had pets my whole life (Dogs, cats, lizards, snakes, frogs, fish etc.) I have cried like a baby when they die. Each and every one has a special place in my heart. They are not family though, they are my pets. As I see it a pet is an animal who relies on me for food, water, shelter, social interaction and protection, in return they give me companionship, entertainment and in some cases protection (the german shepard not the fish

)

Animals, like people, deserve to be loved for what they are. Not for what we would like them to be.

JustJess · 08-30-2005, 07:02 AM

Please, those of you screaming that she's crazy or a bitch or whatever, chill out. You're clearly bringing your own issues into this. Just because YOU don't feel that pets are as important, doesn't mean someone else doesn't. You don't have the right to invalidate another person's emotions, even if you don't understand them.

Lurkette is completely on the button; it's not about being able to bring the dog no matter what, it's that her current chosen lifestyle is being disregarded and made a lesser choice than that of her friends, who have children.

Explain that it's not about the worth of the dog versus children, but that the home-owners have made their preferences clear; since this is a generous offer from them for all of you to use their home, you must abide by their wishes. You're sorry she's upset, and can certainly understand that it can be frustrating, but it would really be best if she made other arrangements. While children are similarly messy, no one is allergic to them, and they do not leave bits of themselves all over in quite the same way. A small possibly-white-lie that the homeowners are allergic wouldn't be amiss, either, since it's hard to argue that.

highthief · 08-30-2005, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menoman

pets = family

That's all I'm gonna say about it. People who say otherwise haven't had pets/haven't cared for their pets with the affection they deserved.

Yeah, like you know about everyone else.

I doubt there is a person here who, having both a family and pets, wouldn't, 1000/1000, pick their human family over their pet.

Would you sacrifice your child before your dog?

skier · 08-30-2005, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogza

Animals, like people, deserve to be loved for what they are. Not for what we would like them to be.

wow, what a great way to say it. kudos

vautrain · 08-30-2005, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

Would you sacrifice your child before your dog?

In any family heirarchy, there are members you would sacrifice before others.

Would you sacrifice your child before your second cousin?

xepherys · 08-30-2005, 08:55 AM

Uhm, I love both of my dogs to death. We take them to my in-laws every week with us. They sleep in our bedroom every night. Still, for a day and a night? They'll make it on their own. You wouldn't leave your children at home overnight if they were say... 15? Well, a dog that's more than a year or two old has the same level of being able to take care of itself. You have the neighbor come over and let them outside and feed them, and all is well. I LOVE my dogs. I don't need to be attached to them 24x7.

On a side note... if you're going to argue that a dog is as helpless as a child or some other such thing. Would you leave you 3 y/o child at home alone while you're at work? Probably not. If you HAVE a 1 or 2 y/o dog... do you take them to work with you? Pay for doggie sitting every day? Oh, because they're dogs... and pets ARE treated differently. I sure would make my child eat from a bowl on the floor. Or poop outside. I wouldn't (though some people do) put my child on a leash. *shrug* I don't get it...

What if your pet was a fish? Or a bird? Can those animals not be loved as much as a dog or cat? Are they your children, too? What about Fluffy the Turtle? What about Jojo to Hamster? Where does the line get drawn?

ScottKuma · 08-30-2005, 09:03 AM

Their house = their rules.

If you don't like it, don't come. If the group doesn't like it, have the gathering elsewhere.

krwlz · 08-30-2005, 12:03 PM

Their house their rules absolutely. And equating a dog with a kid?? C'mon People!! Yes, I have dogs. Yes I love them. Yes they stay outside!! Yes they can handle themselves without me for a few days (provided with food and clean water) unlike a child!!

It is not cruel or unusual to keep a dog outside, and that should really be as much of a compromise as you need to make.

vautrain · 08-30-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krwlz

It is not cruel or unusual to keep a dog outside

It depends entirely upon the dog and the environment.

krwlz · 08-30-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vautrain

As an aside, maybe your friends' dog would be more welcome if the dog were properly groomed and bathed, and well-behaved. A dog that is jump-prone really wouldn't be welcome in my home. I wouldn't tolerate it from my dog, and I won't tolerate it from someone else's dog. Just like children, they need to be taught manners.

Got worked up and posted before I saw this. I agree wholly. My dogs don't jump for a reason. When they do, the first reaction is up with the knee. They land on, much less get bowled over by your knee once or twice and they quit it damn quick. I don't see it as cruel. It's not like I'm beating the animal, but punishment on the spot works best. If your dog jumps on me, you better expect the same thing. If it persists, the bastard is prolly gunna go over backwards at the conclusion of our encounter.

Pet owner's have the responsibility to properly train their pets to be obedient, and docile in public places, or the pets should never encounter public places.

08-29-2005, 02:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
balderdash111 Psycho	Pet dog=children? Are our friends nuts? Hello all Some friends and I are trying to organize a gathering, where we would use one of the groups' parents' house (did I get those posessive apostrophes right?) while the parents are away. We have the parents' permission, of course. The parents have no pets and are very clean. All of us are married and those of us with kids are bringing them. One couple, however, has no kids but has a dog. We haven't seen the dog in a few months (we all live in different states - thus the gathering), but back then it was pretty hyperactive, and we think that continues today. Not so much destructive, as frantic and jump-prone. The friend whose parents' house we're using does not want the dog to come to the house. Mostly it's an issue of hair and dog smells. We are not worried about the dog and the kids (though there will be at least 4 infants, and we're not sure if the dog has been around those before), it's apparently just a "don't want a dog in my house" issue. The gathering is in the winter, so keeping the dog outside is not really an option. So, the friends who own the dog were informed of this, and reacted very strongly. They said that telling them they can't bring the dog is like them telling us we can't bring our children. And when it was suggested that the dog could sleep in the garage, again the response was that it was like saying the children could stay in the garage. Final position - if the dog can't come, they won't come (or they will stay someplace in the same town where they can keep the dog - which sort of defeats the purpose of the gathering) Now, my feeling is that this is a bit of an overreaction. A dog can stay in a kennel, and - though I like dogs personnally - I can understand someone who says he/she doesn't want a dog in his/her home. So are our friends nuts? __________________ A little silliness now and then is cherished by the wisest men. -- Willy Wonka

08-29-2005, 02:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Very common in childless couples. We have good friends who act like this too. I find it quite sad. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

08-29-2005, 03:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	These are friends you want to keep? Keep in mind that by making the sacrifice for friendship and finding an alternate location you disarm the problem and make them more receptive to discussion. The reverse holds true as well. Always simpler for outsiders, but which is easier? Which is worth more? __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

08-29-2005, 03:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
Seeker Getting Clearer Location: with spirit	I have a child and two dogs... On an overnight stay, I couldn't see that a dog would be any different to a small child. They all smell and get into mischief. The hair would be a one off problem and I can't see it being such a big deal... I think the friends parents are being a bit pedantic... in my mind, if that's how they feel about their dog and you want this gathering, this is something you choose to deal with and if you can't deal with a small issue of dog hair then what is life all about. __________________ *To those who wander but who are not lost...* ~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

08-29-2005, 03:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
eribrav Junkie Location: upstate NY	Dog lover here My wife and I treat our dog better than most children are treated. She is with us constantly, anytime we are not at work. We take her swimming, to training classes and even set up play dates for her with her dog buddies. Having said that, I know we always respect people's wishes if they don't want her around. It's up to us to decide if we want to spend time with those folks. If they're our friends, and we value their friendship, then we make other arrangements for the dog when we are with them. Quite frankly I think it's rude to do otherwise. It doesn't even matter WHY they don't want the dog around them, because that's not the point.

08-29-2005, 02:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nikki ~~~~~~~ Location: Charleston, SC	I find it quite sad that people don't try to understand this. Animals are members of the family, and a lot of people who are childless do indeed consider them children. I know my pets are my children. I think your friends deserve your understanding and sensitivity to this issue.

08-29-2005, 03:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	Equating pets with children is insane. They are not one and the same. Your dog is going to die a natural death long before you. It is not going to give you grandchildren. It doesn't carry on your genes to the next generation. It will not carry on your name. And don't get me started on those dog sweaters. Ugh. I have had many pets over the years and have loved them all, but that doesn't make them anything more than pets. I daresay anyone who treats a pet like a child has no idea what raising a child is truly like.

08-29-2005, 04:04 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sweetpea Fade out Location: in love	It's not that your friends are nuts, it's just that sometimes people WITH OR WITHOUT CHILDREN (it's not just the childless couples i have seen act like this) It's that they are unusually attatched. i'm a dog lover, i have a dog. We spoil her. We are also a childless couple. And we treat her like our 'child.' even though i understand she is nothing like actually raising a child.. we don't want kids for a reason However, i understand when people are a 'pet free' home and we just don't take her with us when this kind of situation arises. You friends should be more understanding, i would never assume to bring my dog unless i had specifically asked... so although our dog is like our child, i understand that the fact that she is a pet puts her in a different criteria than an actual child. Your friends sound very attatched to their dog and i understand that semtiment, however, just gently tell them it's nothing against their "inset dog's name here," it's just that you feel it's not appropriate for them to bring their dog. Sweetpea __________________ Having a Pet Will Change Your Life! Looking for a great pet?! Click Here! "I am the Type of Person Who Can Get Away With A lot, Simply Because I Don't Ask Permission for the Privilege of Being Myself" Last edited by sweetpea; 08-29-2005 at 04:07 PM..

08-29-2005, 04:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	Hmm, this is a touchy issue. I had a dog as a child that I loved very much. She was family and I can understand how these people feel. However, we never took her on vacation or to family/friend gatherings, unless she was invited. As was mentioned earlier though, do you want to keep these people as friends? It sounds as if they are very offended by the uninvitation of the dog. I think that dogs can be like children, especially toddlers. They both get into things, make messes, act obnoxious, and are loud at times. So there can be a comparison to the behavior between a dog and a child. __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

08-29-2005, 04:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
Sue Teufel Hunden's Freundin Location: Westminster, CO	I call my cat my little girl. I've had her for almost 7 years now. When I go away though, I'm able to have some watch her and give her her food and water. It shouldn't be too difficult to find someone to watch this person's dog so the human can attend the gathering. __________________ Teg yw edrych tuag adref.

08-29-2005, 04:37 PM	#17 (permalink)
clavus pow! Location: NorCal	Three things: 1. I have pets. I have kids. They aren't the same. I would beat my dog to death with my cat if it meant saving my kids. 2. It is A-OK for a person to say who is and is not welcome in their home for whatever reason they choose. Your house, your rules. 3. It is pretty goddamn pretentious to assume your pets are invited anywhere you are. __________________ Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

08-29-2005, 04:53 PM	#18 (permalink)
balderdash111 Psycho	Wow, quite a few responses already! A few points of clarification. 1) There is very little risk that friendships will dissolve over this. For one thing - though I didn't mention it before - it is only one half of this couple that has expressed this opinion. The other half is an extemely mellow fellow who I can basically guarantee doesn't feel this strongly about it (and is not likely to tell the complaining half to chill out). 2) The house is a one-of-a-kind opportunity. Big, comfortable and free. Relocation is not an easy alternative. 3) Some of you seem to be thinking of this as a situation where a couple has decided not to have kids (or are unable to do so) and so have transferred their love and affection to a pet. Not the case. These two will have children eventually. They are newly married and settling down long-term education and employment plans. 4) The dog is not small. Think small golden retriever size. Or big collie. 5) We're not devaluing the love and affection felt for pets. I've had many pets myself and they were near and dear to me. The specific issue here is whether, for a few nights, it is unreasonable to ask someone to leave the dog somewhere else when they are coming to a home. 6) Nobody has made this point yet, but 3 toddlers and 5 infants can easily make just as much of a mess as a dog. We get the hypocrisy. __________________ A little silliness now and then is cherished by the wisest men. -- Willy Wonka

08-29-2005, 05:11 PM	#19 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	My aunt and her wife don't have children and see their pets as their kids. But even so, they will put their dogs in a good kennel if that's what the event in question requires. These people need to relax. Sometimes you just have to leave the "kids" home with the sitter. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

08-29-2005, 05:21 PM	#20 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Have you asked your friends about how they feel the dog will react? It sounds like they are coming from a long distance and as they don't have kids either the entire situation could be extremely stressful for the dog. Honestly, I love my pets. But I wouldn't consider dragging them on a long drive to a gathering with a lot of people and a number of small children who will guarenteed pull and yank on the pets ears, tail, fur etc. This kind of situation would be torture for almost any pet let alone one who is not accustomed to small children. PLUS this kind of stressful situation can often trigger a dog to start peeing indiscriminantly thus ruining and leaving bad smells in the carpet of the host's home. You could bring these points to the attention of your Pet Parents and see how they respond. Otherwise you can tell them that you are just not able to afford accomodations elseware but that if they are capable of securing and funding other accomodations where they are welcome to bring their pet that you will notify all other's involved of the change. Give them the "out" by offering this solution but showing them that you cannot foot the bill. Honestly - I doubt highly if they argue with the department store about their policy of not allowing pets in the store. Do they take their pet to every hotel they go to? Many hotels do not allow pets or if they do they charge extra. YES children CAN make a mess just as easily as a dog BUT children's messes can be contained much easier - Um Diapers? Bibs? Playpens? I just don't see the comparison here. Pets can be LOVED just as deeply but they are more capable of causing serious damage to belongings. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

08-29-2005, 05:28 PM	#21 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	Your friends are insane. Anyone who treats their pet like a child is insane. It's a stupid beast, how could you even compare it to a human being?? I love dogs, but I understand that they are animals, not people. If you think you're stupid animal is deserving of everything that kids are, then you are quite possibly a nut job. __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

08-29-2005, 09:14 PM	#22 (permalink)
vautrain Crazy	Like many of the posters in this thread, your friends need to lighten up. I don't like people bringing their children uninvited to my home, and I wouldn't like them bringing their pets uninvited, either. Mostly because my dog would try to eat them. The pets, that is. The kids would be fine, if well-behaved, but I can't stand ill-behaved children. As an aside, maybe your friends' dog would be more welcome if the dog were properly groomed and bathed, and well-behaved. A dog that is jump-prone really wouldn't be welcome in my home. I wouldn't tolerate it from my dog, and I won't tolerate it from someone else's dog. Just like children, they need to be taught manners.

08-29-2005, 09:31 PM	#23 (permalink)
ryfo Psycho Location: melbourne australia	We cant have children and do have two dogs that are treated like kids...but..I wouldnt expect them to be invited out to a bbq or party just because other kids are going to be there. I love my dogs others may not I respect that. Why dont you suggest the dogs go for a sleepover at some other pet friendly house? It is not your house after all the weekend is at, so rules are rules. BTW I agree with vautain, uninvited kids are just as bad, at least the dogs can be told to sit and go outside.

08-29-2005, 10:52 PM	#24 (permalink)
skier Rawr! Location: Edmontania	I believe our society and media really personalizes animals, especially pets. Many shows, cartoons, movies, literature lend human emotion and cognition to animals so that the audience can relate to the character. We also belong to an increasingly urban culture that really separates "man" from "nature". Some of my friends in the city have never even been on a farm, seen a cow or chicken up close. What i'm trying to say is, it's much easier now to get a skewed perspective on the value of a pet. Your parents treat your pet dog like family. You are fed poppycock from the T.V. about animals- watching them walk and talk and think deep thoughts, crack jokes and plot dastardly deeds, and all the rest. During this time, you've never had to kill for your meat, or see a cow up close before it's a burger. Never really made that distinction between Animal and Human. Your friends are crazy. Pets should stay pets. __________________ "Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

08-29-2005, 11:27 PM	#25 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	Maybe someone is allergic to dogs? That would be reason enough... and you really can't argue with that right? __________________ "The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but to the one that endures to the end." "Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!" - My recruiter

08-30-2005, 01:37 AM	#26 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Good grief! Why can't some pet owners respect the wishes of the people who are hosting the event? They don't want your mangy mutt in the house, then the mangy mutt doesn't come to the house. We love our pets, have spent untold gobs of cash on them at the vets and special food, etc, but A) they don't compare to the kids and B) more importantly, if a host says "no pets" - for whatever reason, be it allergies or just a preference - then its no pets and stop whining about it. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

08-30-2005, 03:40 AM	#27 (permalink)
Vincentt Addict Location: Tokyo, Japan	Most of these responses… well they have no tact. If you just say ‘bitch, fuck your dog’, you are going to have a shit storm. You should have a phone call with “Please understand, but dogs_name can’t go… we would still really love to have you guys out, but if you can’t make it, we will understand. The problem is though… if they come will the women start up the fight again at the party? You might just have to count them out. __________________ .

08-30-2005, 06:24 AM	#28 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	There are two issues here: 1. Obeying the wishes of the homeowner. If she doesn't want pets in her home, it would be politic to respect those wishes, just as much as if she had said she'd prefer no children younger than 5. Some people don't like dogs. Some people don't like babies. For those who equate pets with children, an uncontrolled, rambunctious dog is functionally a toddler in its capacity to wreak havoc and make messes. 2. Equating a dog with a human: I love my dog and she is essentially a part of our family. However, having lost a brother that I basically raised, and having lost beloved pets, I can tell you that there is a difference. But that doesn't mean I don't love her and treat her like my child. The difference is that I don't expect everyone else in the world to think the same way I do, and I don't get offended if they don't. The couple (or wife of the couple, as it sounds like) who is getting all huffy is not getting huffy about the dog, it sounds like, as much as she's getting huffy about her feelings being disregarded. There's no reason she can't find a "babysitter" for the dog. She's not nuts, just a little self-absorbed. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

08-30-2005, 07:02 AM	#32 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Please, those of you screaming that she's crazy or a bitch or whatever, chill out. You're clearly bringing your own issues into this. Just because YOU don't feel that pets are as important, doesn't mean someone else doesn't. You don't have the right to invalidate another person's emotions, even if you don't understand them. Lurkette is completely on the button; it's not about being able to bring the dog no matter what, it's that her current chosen lifestyle is being disregarded and made a lesser choice than that of her friends, who have children. Explain that it's not about the worth of the dog versus children, but that the home-owners have made their preferences clear; since this is a generous offer from them for all of you to use their home, you must abide by their wishes. You're sorry she's upset, and can certainly understand that it can be frustrating, but it would really be best if she made other arrangements. While children are similarly messy, no one is allergic to them, and they do not leave bits of themselves all over in quite the same way. A small possibly-white-lie that the homeowners are allergic wouldn't be amiss, either, since it's hard to argue that. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

08-30-2005, 08:55 AM	#36 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	Uhm, I love both of my dogs to death. We take them to my in-laws every week with us. They sleep in our bedroom every night. Still, for a day and a night? They'll make it on their own. You wouldn't leave your children at home overnight if they were say... 15? Well, a dog that's more than a year or two old has the same level of being able to take care of itself. You have the neighbor come over and let them outside and feed them, and all is well. I LOVE my dogs. I don't need to be attached to them 24x7. On a side note... if you're going to argue that a dog is as helpless as a child or some other such thing. Would you leave you 3 y/o child at home alone while you're at work? Probably not. If you HAVE a 1 or 2 y/o dog... do you take them to work with you? Pay for doggie sitting every day? Oh, because they're dogs... and pets ARE treated differently. I sure would make my child eat from a bowl on the floor. Or poop outside. I wouldn't (though some people do) put my child on a leash. shrug I don't get it... What if your pet was a fish? Or a bird? Can those animals not be loved as much as a dog or cat? Are they your children, too? What about Fluffy the Turtle? What about Jojo to Hamster? Where does the line get drawn?

08-30-2005, 09:03 AM	#37 (permalink)
ScottKuma Insane Location: Maineville, OH	Their house = their rules. If you don't like it, don't come. If the group doesn't like it, have the gathering elsewhere. __________________ A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take from you everything you have. -Gerald R. Ford GoogleMap Me

08-30-2005, 12:03 PM	#38 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	Their house their rules absolutely. And equating a dog with a kid?? C'mon People!! Yes, I have dogs. Yes I love them. Yes they stay outside!! Yes they can handle themselves without me for a few days (provided with food and clean water) unlike a child!! It is not cruel or unusual to keep a dog outside, and that should really be as much of a compromise as you need to make.