From Bitch Dog to Jew Couple...
 

First a cable bill comes addressed to the customer as Bitch Dog, and then diners labeled as "Jew Couple"

While I don't see it as inherently derogatory, it's definitely inflammatory given the context of the how the word "jew" has been used in the past. People wonder why things get uptight and not so loose, well you give people room to make their own judgement and sometimes it's not what you would expect it to be.

I really can't see how any laws were broken by the restaurant unless being described as a Jew is considered derogatory in New Jersey.

I guess it all depends how you look at it. If someone were to describe my husband and I as "Italian Couple" I would not be the least bit offended. However I know that Jewish people have gone through a lot more in the past that makes terms like the one used slightly offensive to say the least.

They could have just used table numbers and avoided all this.

"The idea that a restaurant or any establishment is labeling customers by race and then printing it on their bill is unbelievable," said Etzion Neuer, director of the New Jersey Anti-Defamation League."

tech detail: not in this case. It didn't refer to their race, simply their perceived culture/religion.

when I get referred to as "that chink over there" now that's identifying by racial defamation. And it has happened.

Jew can be used as a insult for someone who is a bit of a tightwad... (and that's pretty much the only way i've heard it used.)In this context it's a little tough to figure out how the waitress meant it..

Jew as a description is a tough, because unless he's wearing a yamulke or dressed in Orthodox attire (dark hat, and dark clothes) it'd be pretty tough to determine someones nationality by looking at them.

Table numbers would be a lot easier than trying to go with someone else's description of what someone looked like... If you asked two people to describe the same person in 5 words or less, they owuld probably come up with different adjectives...

Jew, to me is a race a nationality and a religeon. It is a very big discussion and debate I have had.

But imagine different let us say it said 'black couple' or 'arab couple.'

I would never go there, I would complain to the manager and leave no tip if someone insulted me like that. And I then would contact the ADL & press.

It's an adjective, people. Get over yourselves.

Um, what is wrong with referring to two married African-American people as a "black couple". Likewise, I see nothing wrong with describing those with obvious Middle-Eastern decent as an "Arab couble". "Asian", "Latino", or...gasp.."French"... they're just descriptions.

If she labled the table as "Woman with crooked teeth" or "Man with toupe", then we wouldn't be having this discussion now, would we?

Another case of the obvious pussification of America. If I was in charge of the news network that you contacted, I'd just laugh at you. Grow up.

Since we're moving into the world of IF, I'll put a frame around your references....

"Man with toupe", "Woman with crooked teeth" is labeled as such on the bill and they happen to be model or actor then that could be libel or defamation of character and can take equal offense to it.

People are free to take offense to what they want to, and they are also equally free to spend their money where they wish.

Very poor form, and bad business.

But not inherently racist.

To me, it's kind of like the old Bob Newhart show, when they told the makeup man to "put some more on the guy with the toupee."

The Steins may have been more upset that the assumption was correct than anything else.

Why that word keeps showing up is really beyond me. It's clearly non-standard English and marks the user as somewhat gauche on it's face. Beyond that, it's fairly easy to interpret it's use as misogynistic and backward.

as for the case at hand...it's bad business practice is what it is. it obviously caused offense and strife to the customer, who was apparently otherwise pleased with the meal. even if such a label provided some level of ease in referring to a party at a table, there isn't going to be a tip (or a return visit) if they think they've been targeted or slandered.

Political correctness and over sensitive people are shitting all over our freedoms. C'mon people, if you're tall, your going to be referred as the TALL GUY, if you're short, you're gonna be referred as the SHORT GUY and so over, get over it allready!!!
I think it wasn't a long time ago that ther was this documentary en Discovery Channel about how our brains do to remember people, and it is a process of "cartooning" the individuals, our brains tend to identify and remember faces and persons because of what makes the unique or more obvious, is just the way we are, so instead of been pussies that sues over any stupid thing, we should start to give importance to what really is.

In a restaurant there are a number of different methods to refer to a table. To label them by some attribute / nationality of a person is unprofessional, and can be construed as racist. To then have that information shown to the client is an even bigger blunder.

The fact that information turns up on the bill and credit card statement that is what I consider wrong. You want to have that for your own personal method to keep track of your table go for it. But when it goes further then that, it definitely is a big no-no.

This isn't worthy of being news.

I think running this all the way to the media is dumb.

I don't see what the big deal is. Sure, Judaism has had a harsh past when compared to other religions, but it's not like the person put "stinking Jew couple" or "fucking jew couple" or anything. This wouldn't even be in the news if it said "muslim couple" or "christian couple."

If it were used in any sort of derogatory sense I would be angry, but it's not proven. The girl/whoever that put "jew couple" in was probably just trying to distinguish them to make it easier on the restaurant, nothing personal. if the person put "red hat couple" because the two wore red hats all the time, they wouldn't care. whenever religion is brought in I guess people get too touchy. what, are they ashamed of being Jewish?

Until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes one person really can't decide for another person what they shoudl or should not be offended by. Just because person A isn't offended by something, doesn't mean person B also won't be offended. Every person has their own level of tolerance. Maybe person A got teased their entire life for being tall - and tall jokes are sensitive issue for them.

Why is a person's description even needed in a restaurant. Number or letter the tables.

My mom is 5" 11' and has been that height since 8th grade. She takes it as an insult if someone mentions her height. She is self-conscious about it because she has heard the comments most of her life. I remember her coming home from work upset because the guys in the plant said something about her height. Many people take comments to heart. I think that this couple has a right to be upset. Now whether it is blown out of proportion, that is an individual call. But obviously it was important to them.

First, identifying customers by race is unnecessary. If they don't want to do table numbers there are any number of ways of identifying customers that are creative.

Second, Jew when used as a prenominative modifier is almost always used in an insulting manner. "Jewish couple" might a neutral description, but "Jew couple" is an insult. It either displays very crude manners or is outright insulting.

Even if they had used the more neutral description, it's still strange that and ethnic descriptor was used, unless they intended to give differentiated treatment based on that information.

One restaurant we go to sometimes uses a small stuffed animal, which is place at the edge of the table, making the table rabbit, or tiger and so forth. Another I've seen uses the wall decorations hanging near the table.

It was at the very least rude.

Gilda

I agree....but in this case, it hasn't been proved it was a 'jew joke,' it has only been established they were referred to as the 'jew couple.' You said in your post that " - and tall jokes are sensitive issues for them." True, tall jokes are sensitive issues for them, but what about simply being referred to as tall without a joking or derogatory manner? I think this is an important aspect many are overlooking. You shouldn't get offended or get angry at someone for referring to you as jewish or being tall when they didn't mean it in any sort of derogatory manner whatsoever. True, it's a little uncouth, but restaurants (if you've ever had the happiness of working in one :D ) are all sorts of uncouth when you have 30 customers that want to be pleased.

How did the server know the couple was Jewish?

If the diners were wearing distinctive religious artifacts such as a yarmulke or a Star of David necklace, then she was correct in assuming they may be of the Jewish faith, but was over the line to use the outward symbols of their faith to describe them on the bill.

If the diners were not wearing anything that would have immediately identified their faith, then that calls into question her reasoning for labeling them as "jew couple".

Makes you wonder how she identified other customers...

Seems like I have to do this more and more, but here's the other side of the coin...

(quick background, i'm 1/4 jewish, from my grandfather, so i don't want to hear it. i'm also- and very identifiably- 3/4 italian)

It's totally a question of intent. As for the relevant "slur" quality of saying "jew" instead of "jewish"... do we know anything about the waitress? Maybe she speaks shitty english. Wow, a person in the NY/NJ area who doesn't speak perfect english? Shocking!

Poor judgment? Totally.
Crucify the owner? No.

If the entire staff was writing "nigger couple", "chink couple", "dago couple", "towel-head couple", "spic couple", "dot-head couple" (did i leave anyone out?), then that's a huge problem. If, however, that waitress is let go, and everyone else isn't having problems with questionable language use, then I say let the thing die out.

It really doesn't look like it has anything to do with the establishment, just one stupid (or just ignorant/insensitive) bitch.

hmm i dont think its as bad as its put out to be, i think its jus the waitresses mistake and not the whole business. I mean of course u mgiht be offended but why not just be like "what the f? shes right about somethign, i aint leavin tip tonight" and just laugh it off. But yea maleficent is right saying that the tolerance level of people are different.

Jew is short for Jewish. It could be as simple as that.

Jap is short for Japanese. Not sure if everyone knows that most Japanese find "jap" quite offensive.

But, I have never heard a Japanese call themselves "Jap". but I have heard Jewish call themselves "jew".

I really don't see what all the fuss is about here.

Being half Jewish, I never get offended if someone calls me a Jew. Sometimes my friends even use it as a nickname (i.e. "Hey Pete, ya Jew bastard, hurry up" or "Pete, you look so sad without your Jew fro")

I never get offended at all by these things. Maybe I'm just a laid back guy.

Which obviously, Mr. Stein is not. Was he possibly wearing or doing something that easily identified him as Jewish? As Maleficent in a way mentioned, maybe he was wearing a yarmulke, or spinning a dreidel or something. Who knows.

Maybe I'm just too easy-going to see what all the fuss is over.

I think simply the usage of "Jew couple" rather than the proper "Jewish couple" makes it anti-semitic in connotation. Either that, or it just seems that way because it so offends my grammatical sensibilities.

Another thought I just had. I have an uncle who is an Orthodox Jew. That's how he describes himself, thats how I describe him, how my father describes him, etc etc....

So why is the word Jew ok in that application, but not in others, such as "Jew Couple"?

"Jew couple" is completely improper grammar. Calling a single person a Jew is not. Improper grammar tends to signify slang, which in this case would be derogatory.

Usage note: The word "Jew" is a noun. Its use as an adjective (e.g. "Jew lawyer") is widely considered offensive; "Jewish" is strongly preferred. Its use as a verb (e.g. "to jew someone") is also considered offensive. Some sources, such as the American Heritage Dictionary, suggest that phrases like "Jewish person" may be offensive if pointedly used to avoid the word "Jew".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews

On a side point the restaurant had another receipt with the words 'dirty Joanne' on it. Just heard this on fox 5 news.

Did it say whether she was dirty, unclean... or dirty, does anything dirty?

The only words that was on it was just 'dirty Joanne.' (then again that was what they blew up on tv)

People need to get thicker skins... really. OMG!!! The waitress called me... wait for it... DIRTY!

If you don't like it don't go there anymore.

As for Jew comment... it would traditionally be seen as derogatory but please... let the manager know your displeasure and never go back. Does this really need to be a story in the news (especially if it just ends up being bad grammar or ignorance rather than intentional racism).

Here's the thing. I am pretty sure that the waitress and the restaurant are not KKK or Nazis... The restaurant has (had) a stupid policy of identifying tables with descriptions rather than numbers. Something like this was bound to happen. If it wasn't the "Jew Couple" it was going to be "Dirty Joanne" or "Smelly Guy" or "Pedophile" or "Slack Jawed Moron with Tuque"...

Really. There are racist people. There are ignorant people. Is beating this story to death on the news and in this forum really going to change anything?

Not bloody likely.


Move on there is nothing to see.

On any given day, i would probably agree with you, but after conversations I've had in the past few days, with people telling me what I should love, what I should feel, and what i should do... I'm being contrary...

WHY should people get thicker skins? Why shouldn't other people try to be a little kinder? Wouldn't the world be a better place if it were? Was it necessary to call Joanne dirty? Clearly they know her name, it's Joanne, are there that many Joannes that come into that place that they have to distiguish between the two.

If I were to go into a restaurant and be called ugly maleficent, or crabby assed maleficent - it's be a true statement, it'd be accurate, but it's not all that nice... If I bitched about it, I'd agree that I probably would need to get a thicker skin, but it would bother me, I can't help that it bothers me... It's not necessary to use those kind of descriptors.

Yes, this restaurant incident is exactly like Nazi Germany.

Mal I completely agree with you... courtesy is a two-way street. But one cannot rely on others to be polite or know what common courtesy is... I find that when I expect people to behave accordingly I am continually disappointed.

What is required is that people of good conscience behave appropriately and set a good example. These same people must also have a thick skin and not fly off the handle when they are met with the derisve comments generated by the barbarous hordes that seemingly make up the bulk of humanity.

LMAO jwoody for the win!

If you see a person with physical features associated with semitic heritage and the last name Stein, what would be your first guess as to their religion? Take into consideration that many people (I'd estimate half) who aren't prejudiced against Jews still think that Jewish is a racial decription rather than a religious or ethnic description, and you get the idea. It's unfortunate, but Hitler managed to create a widespread blurring of the line between race and religion.

He said Europe, not Germany. Anti-Semitism was widespread outside of Germany and was not necessarily linked to the Nazis.

The point is: calling a jew a jew is not anti-semitic.

I'm calling shenanigans. How could something like a handwritten phrase end up on a credit card statement? God knows I have enough of those, and I've never seen anything like that.

The sheriff is a...

Why should people HAVE to "be a little kinder? " It's an indication of good breeding if they do, but in today's world I would daresay it's impossible to keep up with everything that might offend everyone else.

I consider it another indication of good breeding for a person to overlook the occasional unintentional faux pas from someone else.

As well as the intentional ones.

Just caught this thread and that is exactly what I was wondering. Unless the restaraunt does trade under the name 'Jew Couple' it would hardly make sense for this to appear on the credit card statement.

That said, I still see several reasons why this is insulting.

• Calling two people 'Jew Couple' reduces them to nameless stereotypes and doesn't consider them as people
• Call people whatever the hell weird shit you want behind their back. Call them something odd or off kilter to their face, that's an insult.

Ok i am gonna have to side with what seems to be the majority here, not a good idea but nothing to sue over.

Jew is not an insult plain and simple it is an identifier and one that (assuming he was in fact jewish) he should be proud to wear. Recognising differences is not racist, clearly it worked cause they got the right bill. I wish more people would just be proud of what they are instead of pretending there are no differences cause htye are affraid of offending someone, my best friend is jewish and ill be damned if I aint gonna call him "that jew over there" (dating the beutiful french girl at that) when its the best identifier. Its not racist or derragatory it is an identifier, and one that represents the persons beliefs when correctly used, one shouldnt feel the need ot be offended cause somone adknowledges your beliefs. This man should be counter sued for frivalous lawsuits and for being a grade A1 dick

I see so when people homes were spray painted with "JEW" in the 1940's they should have been proud to have it on their door. When people were chased down the street with crowds yelling after them shouting "JEW!!!" they were just trying to bring happiness to the person.

:rolleyes:

If it's true, then you can't be sued. *shrugs*

And as for it being difficult to indentify a Jewish person unless their wearing some sort of religious stuff...HAHAHAHA!! I'm sure we all know about the stereotypes of curly hair, big nose, etc...

And I'm with the people calling "fake." There's NO WAY that would have showed up on the credit card bill.

And painting Jew on someones shop window was not offensive, it was fucking scary, cause then you knew that you had been IDed by the authorities.
Anything can be used as a epithet, but that doesn't mean every single usage of the word is one.

And continuing the trend...
Credit Card Offer Addressed To 'Palestinian Bomber'

... J.P. Morgan has since fired the minimum wage, no-rights, part-time call centre worker and employed a replacement minimum wage, no-rights, part-time call centre worker from the same agency.

Ok trying to respond to Cynthetiq here

There is a fundamentle difference between this incident and having jew spraypainted on your door. The point i was trying to get across is it is an identifier that was created to refer to members of a religion, it isnt offensive to use in polite conversation, its hardly being used here to repress or lynch a jew-ish couple. The examples you gave were crooked at best, they show the evils of the world and say that we should all feel our vocabularies restricted because a work can be used in a negative way. Nevermind that the word isnt negative its not like racial slurs that have no place in ocnversation and offend people automagically, rather it is an identifier and people should get a backbone, if its thier belief then they shouldnt feel bad to be identified by it. I hereby claim that the word fire is never to be used because it can precede the ending of a life. I also hereby decree that all guns are to be taken away cause they can be used to take a life

never mind the whole "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" truism

So why does this identifier, have to go on his credit card statement? Sorry I eat out normally 2-4 times a week, I happen to be Jewish. I have yet to in any resturaunt seen any identifier needed to state such on a bill EVER!

What sort of identifiers do you stumble upon when you eat out? Sorry from the other identifiers that have come out in the news about the place, they use ones that demean their clients. In which case the words they used were meant as such.

There is no reason to identify someone like that, it can be insulting to people etc... I work in a service oriented business, and meet 2-10 people a day. I have never asked or talked about their religeous beliefs unless they open a dialogue about it. There is no point, there are people who do get insulted by such. Would you feel it is ok if they wrote "fat man" as an identifier? Whether you consider it racism, etc.. I do not care what label you want to place on their actions, but to me it is just wrong.

It is offensive, and it is an epithet when used as a noun modifier. The word "Jew" is properly used only as a noun. The construction Jew [noun] is offensive because it substitutes the non-standard "Jew" for the standard modifier "Jewish", and because it has a long history of being use as an epithet.

When used as a noun to identify a person's ethnicity or religion, it is neutral. When used as a noun modifier in place of the proper "Jewish" it is offensive. When ethnic identifiers are used in a situation that does not call for it, that in itself is also offensive.

People aren't objecting to the word itself, only the way in which it was used.

Gilda

That comment in the story got me. How in the world could it have ended up on the credit card statement? Maybe it was on the slip that he signed vs. on what the credit card company sends him as his monthly bill. Anway...

People need thicker skin without a doubt. People also need to practice better judgement and this case clearly lacked a lot of on the part of Karina (the waitress). Sticks and stones really shouldn't be news but here we are talking about it.

If that happened to me, I suppose I might be a bit annoyed, but I wouldnt be running to the press and police about it. - especially if they apologised about it at the time I'd be cool with it. Being called a Jew is not an offensive statement if you are Jewish - it might not be that great a feeling to be designated as a person by your religion, but its hardly a criminal action.

im not sure about the intricate details of the story, but i calling a spade a spade isnt such a bad thing.

sometimes you can tell that someone is of a certain race, religion from dress, complexion, bone structure etc, so i find it quite strange that someone would get offended if they got called something that they were. on the flip side if there was an obese woman and the bill said 'fat lady' im sure she'd get upset, although i dont see how its breaking any laws.

and since i know many jews are proud of their jewry, they ought to be proud to be recognised as such.

FACT: The word WAS offensive TO the jewish guy/couple.
FACT: C.C. company did same. What-the-H___!
I agree with the one poster that the restaraunt owner should have anticipated an
incident likely to occur. I say, if there is to be any fault,then lay it down at his feet.
I call my friend "Jew-Boy" many times, but out of respect,
not in front of others, because it probably would make him as well as myself cringe.
Life is not fair, so my suggestion for stein is, to try and forget about this incidence,
put it in a box, get on with life.......laccept that life if not perfect.
E-V-E-R-Y-B-O-D-Y gets hit with some sort of insult sometime in their lifetime.
(some much more than others......"life- sucks-man!")
Well, that's my 2 cents. Hope this helps the rest of you out there in poster land.

which really muddies the waters when we have to deal with real racial concerns.

I think that all of this can be lumped under bigotry versus racism.

I would say that it was poor form on the restaurants part... Becasue people getting up in arms (ridiculous as it is) is what always happens now a days in america. Do I take offense to being called that "irish kid", "the red head" simply "red" or any other referance to my background? Nope. Call me a dirty mic... and well, I'll probably just laugh at you.

Grow up guys. This is america. You are garaunteed many right. The right to have society walk on tip toes just so that you arn't offended ever though... is not one of them. Our society desperatly needs to learn this.

That said, Jew is way to broad to pin point a specific couple in a restaurant full of people. Practicality would say number work better.

While it was sheer stupidity on the restaurant's part to do it, considering our litigous society, let's be frank.

Are they jewish?

Are they a couple?

Then "Jew Couple" is a describer. It is not in and of itself insulting unless they are either ashamed of being a jew or ashamed of being a couple.

If the statement were more derogatory (fucking jew couple, cheap jew couple, kike couple, whatever) then I could see getting pissy about it. But I really don't understand why people get upset at being called what they are. I also don't understand why people automatically assume the worst of other's intentions. They read "jew couple" and automatically assumed that the waitress was anti semetic. That's absurd.

shakran: It is not just a describer. It is insulting because "Jew couple" is not the proper use of the term, and using "Jew" (noun) in place of "Jewish" (adjective) improperly signifies a derogatory comment.

In summary: "Jewish couple" is okay, "Jew couple" is not.

But an argument can be made that the waitress shortened it in the interest of time - Ever seen what they scribble on their pads when you order? It's a helluva lot shorter than what you said.

Listen, I'm not saying the waitress was in the right here, but I'm saying that we automatically assume she has the worst motivation possible for doing what she did, and that perhaps that's a trend that isn't so good for us.

Again no one has answered why that would show up on a credit card bill & statement!!

For someone to type that information into the credit card machine, for it to come up with that, labeling them like that... that is wrong.

Which makes me wonder even more. I mean, if I were in a job, and I wanted to keep it, I'd probably avoid permanently inscribing racial slurs on the credit card statements. Unless the waitress is a halfwit, why would she write something she knew to be a racial slur on the bill? The only logical conclusions are 1) she's mentally deficient, 2) she's quitting anyway and doesn't care if she gets fired or 3) she doesn't think identifying someone as a jew is a slur.

Well to (1) that is possible. (2) again possible. (3) considering that they put "dirty Joanne" on someone else's bill & credit card statement, this does not hold water for me.

On a side point, they never confirmed it was a waiter / waitress.

I don't assume the worst, but it's pretty common knowledge that the use of "Jew" in a context like that is derogatory. I just think she should have been more careful about what she wrote down.

I guess I don't see where "Jew" is always used in a negetive way. How is that any differant from refering to the "Celts" or the "Brits" or... It is (or ought to be) just a shorthand way of saying jewish people.

I dont think there is inherently a negetive connotation on the word, until the person puts one there.

I'm sure I've read history text books that contained the word "Jew" are we suing them?

Well, it is america... we probably are.

Lastly, I think for the most part it can be agreed that the waitperson was in the wrong, and having that message show up on your credit card statement... Well, Yea, I'd say the waitperson added that negetive connotation. My point being, the fault is not in the word, its in the person.

I agree with Marvelous Marv that the couple, in the interests of manners, should have simply demanded an explanation and an apology. The girl was in the wrong, but I don't think she meant any offense by that term. If anything, she simply should keep such descriptions to herself and her close friends or others who are sure not to be offended. I for one did not know that "Jew couple" is a racial/religious slur. So obviously it isn't common knowledge to everyone. This is simply a case of poor judgement on the part of the waitress, couple, and media.

First of all, I do think the couple overreacted and I hardly think such an event needs to be brought to the news and attention of the public when the matter could have been settled by simply going to the manager.

However...and I'm trying to find some other word that relates to this...the term "Jew" is slightly offensive when used in this manner.
Perhaps it wasn't meant this way by the person who wrote it, and there is nothing to indicate that she meant it as anything but a way to describe the couple at the table. But for some reason, when people are speaking about Jewish people in a respectable, inoffensive manner, they tend to say "JewISH" or "A Jew". ...."He was a Jew"..."They were Jewish"...wheareas, when speaking about Jews in a more...vulgar manner, people skip the "A's" and "ISH's" and say "Jew Couple" "Jew Bastard" "Dirty Jew" etc etc. I don't know why this is the case....but I guess because of this use, the word "Jew" alone, coupled with another descriptive word has come to be percieved as offensive to a lot of Jewish people.
Not that the word itself is bad.
It just has to do with the way it's used.
Like...I guess you could relate it to how someone might describe black people. It's fine to say "So there were two black people sitting at the table" but if you heard a white person say "So there were two blacks sitting there...", wouldn't you cringe just a little bit? Doesn't it seem a bit worse?

*shrug*
I don't really know how to describe it, so maybe I'm not making any sense.

Either way, yeah, it's not all that bad. She didn't say anythig all that bad, and yeah, she may have just been bad at English or unaware that this was not the proper way to describe a Jewish person....but I would have been offended/annoyed if someone described me in that way. Not enough to make a huge deal. But perhaps enough to go someplace else next time I wanted dinner.

The sad fact is that in the USA non-white people are viewed based on a group identity. While whites have the privilege of INDIVIDUALITY. Don't believe me? Just turn on any TV and see how the acts of a few blacks are ascribed to the whole community.