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billege 07-01-2005 06:42 AM

Fireworks Laws as a Freedom Gauge
 
I personally have this insane theory that your state's fireworks laws give a good indication of how much you lean towards being communist bastards.

For example: I love Ohio's law. Check this: Sparklers, trick noisemakers & novelties are exempt under Ohio law. Other consumer fireworks may be sold to Ohio residents upon execution of a form agreeing to take the items out to the state within 48 hours, or to out-of state residents upon execution of a form agreeing to take the items out the state within 72 hours.

That's like saying,
"You're going to take these fireworks out of the state within 48 hours, right?"
"Sure, I promise they will not be in the great state of Ohio within 48 hours. Promise. Sure, I'll sign that."

I love that.

Another: age of purchase: (Tennesee) 10 years. w00t for Tennesee.
Nothing says, "I'm an American" like a bunch of 10 year olds armed with explosives.

Massachusetss, the land of the "free," all fireworks, of any kind, are PROHIBITED.
Fucking commies.

Fucked in AZ also. What? People will set the sand on fire?
Commies also.

DC is so complicated there's a 50% chance whatever you have is illegal depending on how you look at it. Imagine that. DC. Having an overly complex law. What are the odds?

I LOVE TEXAS.
Those fuckers are like, "buy anything you want, except for military ordiance, and even that's okay if you're over 18" "Set off napalm, we don't care."
No, not really. Texas does prohibit "small rockets (less than 4 gms propellant, and casings less than ?” x 3 ½” overall length."
I read that as meaning:
"Don't buy little rockets you pussy, get this big 10 footer over here!"

Don't even bother reading Utah's. I think they're commies, but I'm not sure. They're awfully specific.

Nebraska has the right idea: " Samples for all fireworks must be submitted to Fire Marshal prior to sale for separate test shoot examination."
You know that's the best job. Picture the Fire Marshal:
"Yup, I'm gonna have to spend all day setting off, I mean "test shooting and examining" this giant buttload of free fireworks. Gotta protect the citizenry, you know?"

These damn east coast states. Commies. Delaware:
"No consumer fireworks are permitted in Delaware.
All consumer fireworks are prohibited Delaware."

Well shit. They just blew their tourist draw. Wait. Delaware had no tourist draw. Never mind.

How communist is your state? I found a good listing of laws
right here.

maleficent 07-01-2005 06:56 AM

New jersey:
CONSUMER FIREWORKS
Specifically Permitted None
Specifically Prohibited Torpedoes, firecrackers, fireworks containing yellow or white phosphorus or mercury, sparklers, fireworks containing an ammonium salt, and a chlorate.

~~~~~~~~~~~
i personally have no problem with the ban on them - I just wish it was enforced as I've listened to people blow off firecrackers (and not the pretty ones) for the past few weeks. A few years back, when I lived on Staten island, also prohibited there, the people across the street, a fireman actually (with a vicious dog) and three pre teen sons, the kids were left unsupervised all day, and for weeks on end would blow off firecrackers, nothign was done... (I called the police more than once because it was annoying and they were too young) Then one day the kids decided that putting a whole bunch into a metal trash can and set them off would be fun... It created a huge bang, followed by a lot of screaming as one of the boys blew off a few fingers... Stupid parents, stupid kids, unnecessary injury.

Leave fireworks to the professionals... The Gruccis put on a good show, watch them :)

wraithhibn 07-01-2005 07:01 AM

Kentucky is great, all of the fun stuff is illegal, but we can go to TN, OH, or IN to get the good ones we want and we are taking them out of state legitimately.

Charlatan 07-01-2005 07:04 AM

Considering the number of fires that were started on Victoria Day this year in Toronto due to the incorrect use of fireworks I don't have a problem with putting certain restrictions on the sale of fireworks.

laconic1 07-01-2005 08:16 AM

Colorado pretty much only allows pretty weak stuff like sparklers, but right across the state line in Wyoming they have a ton of fireworks shops that let you buy the good stuff and bring it back down.

pan6467 07-01-2005 08:19 AM

Gotta love Ohio, you can tell them you are taking them to ANY state sign the waiver and go (it's a high misdemeanor/low felony I believe to sign and then get caught in Ohio seeting them off) . Yet, I believe it is illegal to carry fireworks across statelines (I maybe wrong) AND I can say I am taking them to Delaware where they are totally illegal. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Although, in all honesty when I do buy I tell them N. Carolina is my destination. Where their law is:
Quote:

"Specifically Prohibited Explosive or aerial fireworks, roman candles, and rockets or similar devices."
So in essence Ohio says: fuck other states laws as long as you don't set them off here.....

Ohio does have massive fines if caught and prosecuted. I have never been but a friend lit some bottle rockets and loud stuff off in Mansfield at 3 AM and his neighbors called the cops. All they did was confiscate them and cite him for public nuisance.

Elphaba 07-01-2005 09:46 AM

Washington prohibits all of the usual suspects, but you can buy all of that and more on the Indian Reservations. Since there is little or no enforcement, the 4th of July is three months long. :(

StanT 07-01-2005 09:55 AM

Hell with the law in Colorado, my neighbors would string me up if I lit any fireworks at my house. Comes with living in a National Forest.

kutulu 07-01-2005 10:05 AM

No fireworks = communist? Someone took their propaganda pills today.

Quote:

Fucked in AZ also. What? People will set the sand on fire?
Commies also.
There is sand in Arizona? Maybe in Yuma, other than that the only sand you see here is on the golf courses. It's hot and dry as fuck in the summertime here fire hazards have something to do with the restrictions. Right now, around Phoenix, there are a bunch of wildfires burning. One is up to 200,000 acres and growing. It's 40 miles away and I can smell it when I go to work in the morning.

Although it would be fun to have them, kids don't need to play with explosives.

JStrider 07-01-2005 10:22 AM

California - Firecrackers, skyrockets, rockets, roman candles, chasers, sparklers over 10”or ¼ diameter, surprise items, friction items, torpedoes, items resembling food, fireworks containing arsenic, phosphorus, thiocyanates magnesium (magnesium alloys permitted), mercury salts, picrates or picric acid, gallates or gallic acid, chlorates, (except those of alkali or earth metals), boron, titanium (except larger than 100 mesh), zirconium, gunpowder, and fireworks kits.



basically in california we have to have things that sit on the ground and flash and sparkle...

jorgelito 07-01-2005 10:32 AM

I'm not sure if there's a communist correlation. Probably more of a population density one. You know, for safety. For the record, I have been hit in the head by a bottle rocket in the "communist" state of Massachusetts. Damn commies.

Grasshopper Green 07-01-2005 04:26 PM

Here in Utah....where we are too confusing to be commies ;) , I think it's more of a safety thing than anything else. It can be really dry here and fires could start easily, so basically anything that shoots in the air is prohibited, plus those damn loud firecrackers. Sparklers, snaps, fountains, and such are ok here.

Destrox 07-01-2005 06:59 PM

Here in PA we are limited to things that "sparkle" and never leave the ground.

Also as a PA resident you cannot purchase ANYTHING illegal by law period. Most firework places here have 2 rooms, one for residents one for everyone else.

Thats why I goto Ohio to purchase my stuff and then bring it here.

22 Years straight so far, neighbors dont care, so its all for fun.
(even better last year and this year, a paintball field/shop opened up and they do insane amounts of fireworks, makes my stuff look like nothing)

snowy 07-01-2005 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba
Washington prohibits all of the usual suspects, but you can buy all of that and more on the Indian Reservations. Since there is little or no enforcement, the 4th of July is three months long. :(

Well, Washington DOES allow Roman candles, fountains that shoot balls of flame, etc. None of those things are allowed under Oregon law--in Oregon fireworks are only allowed to smoke, produce fire, and do not explode/fly/etc. Everyone in the Portland area drives up to Washington to buy fireworks there--I swear Blackjack Fireworks in Vancouver makes all their money off of Oregonians, as Washingtonians are savvy enough to get their fireworks from the Indians.

I personally love fireworks, so I'm heading out to the reservation tomorrow :D

skinnymofo 07-01-2005 07:27 PM

Quote:

Washington prohibits all of the usual suspects, but you can buy all of that and more on the Indian Reservations. Since there is little or no enforcement, the 4th of July is three months long.
except for m80's and above unless you know the right people, (which i dont anymore :(
)

Fremen 07-01-2005 08:15 PM

Yep, I was pissed off about the ban on small bottle-rockets for a good while, but then I said, "Eh, fuck it!", and got a bigger bottle and rockets.

Thanks for the laugh, billege. ;)

goddfather40 07-01-2005 08:15 PM

I definitely agree on your theory being "insane" :)

Yes, California may have a 'pseudo-socialist' reputation but that has nothing to do with the fireworks laws. I would say about 50% of the cities that are totally urbanized with little to no adjacent open land have legalized fireworks. If a city is in or near the hills, they are likely to ban all fireworks. Remember it doesn't rain in California from about June to October so July 4th means it is very dry and there is a lot of tinder dry brush to burn. No matter how careful you are, an errant ember can easily ignite this brush.

Gilda 07-02-2005 01:00 AM

Fireworks are fun, sure, but also dangerous. 10 years old is much too young to be setting off any kind of explosive. They're legally for sale in my city/county for four days (1st-4th), and Grace (my wife, a Paramedic) is run ragged those four days.

The biggest offenders are firecrackers going off in people's hands. She told me last year that it isn't that people light the firecracker, which then goes off prematurely, though that does happen, but people will light the fuse, then hold the firecracker in their hands, waiting for the furse to run short, then throw it in the air, trying to time it so that it explodes in the air.

The other biggie is rockets/roman candles that are set off while someone is holding them. Roman candles can backfire, burning the person holding it quite badly. She, or one of the other crews, gets one or two of those a year. A year before she started with her current crew, a man lost an eye to a backfiring roman candle.

Go watch the professional skyworks put on locally. They're much safer, and you get plenty of pretty colored explosions and big booms.

I have no problem whatsoever with any fireworks restrictions.

billege 07-02-2005 03:11 PM

No fireworks = communist = me being absurdly silly/sarcastic in the early morning.

You're not actually commie's, unless of course you are actually commies, in which case you are. But, you're not by default re: fireworks, unless you are re: membership in the communist party. Okay? Right.

My post was supposed to be on it's face absurd, especially throwing out what I did, and more to the point HOW I did, comments about various states laws.

No one's being overly serious on THIS message board...
Thank god at least one of you got a laugh.

Elphaba 07-02-2005 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl
Well, Washington DOES allow Roman candles, fountains that shoot balls of flame, etc. None of those things are allowed under Oregon law--in Oregon fireworks are only allowed to smoke, produce fire, and do not explode/fly/etc. Everyone in the Portland area drives up to Washington to buy fireworks there--I swear Blackjack Fireworks in Vancouver makes all their money off of Oregonians, as Washingtonians are savvy enough to get their fireworks from the Indians.

I personally love fireworks, so I'm heading out to the reservation tomorrow :D

"Specifically Prohibited: Firecrackers, skyrockets, salutes, chasers, and bottle rockets."

I think, but I'm not certain, that "salutes" are roman candles. I have no idea what a "chaser" is.

Have a great time. :)

uncle phil 07-02-2005 04:07 PM

/me can't wait until one of the neighborhood kids gets his/her arm blown off with one of those things...

maleficent 07-02-2005 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle phil
/me can't wait until one of the neighborhood kids gets his/her arm blown off with one of those things...

naw, that makes for an awful lot of screaming...

Grasshopper Green 07-02-2005 04:17 PM

billege, I found your post funny....besides, commies are so 1980's....they aren't a threat anymore ;)

Elphaba 07-02-2005 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle phil
/me can't wait until one of the neighborhood kids gets his/her arm blown off with one of those things...

I live out in the boonies with fewer than half full-time residents. The rest come in from the city to their vacation homes loaded with explosives and alcohol. It is the worst weekend of the year for the full-timers.

StanT 07-02-2005 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba
I live out in the boonies with fewer than half full-time residents. The rest come in from the city to their vacation homes loaded with explosives and alcohol. It is the worst weekend of the year for the full-timers.

Same here, folks that live here are well aware of the fire hazzard. People that camp in the National Forest 1/4 mile away can be morons

Nimetic 07-02-2005 04:53 PM

This is an interesting set of laws. In Au we can buy fireworks in one state (but not let them off I think) and let them off in another (but not buy them), although it's a while since I checked.

Nimetic 07-02-2005 04:55 PM

Quote:

I personally have this insane theory that your state's fireworks laws give a good indication of how much you lean towards being communist bastards.
Notwithstanding that fact that this is a rather amusing set of laws - do you realize that fireworks are legal in communist China? I was in Shanghai during new year and woke frequently during the night (in Nth floor hotel suite) due to the continual explosions.

We're talking stuff that sets of car alarms at a distance. Banging stuff, not glowing stuff.

MontanaXVI 07-02-2005 05:38 PM

The Ohio laws are wonderful in the fact you can only legally set off smoke bombs and sparklers for the most part, but as stated above buy whatever the hell you want just get it the hell out of the state in 2 days. Couple good stories I have all involve the same day and the same trip to the fireworks shop.

Being a wild group of punks we proceed to drive down to a pretty good sized warehouse outside Lancaster that sells stuff, well the good part is when we get there they have the big signs set up and the table where you fill out your waiver....and get this...on the sign it TELLS YOU what states the fireworks are legal and to pick one when you fill out your waiver :)

Anywho we proceed to drop about $1,000 on some stuff pack it all in my trunk and head back home, I get pulled over for speeding on route 33 coming back into Columbus doing 80 in a 60 zone luckily I got off and did not get my car searched, although I was legally within my rights as I have 48 hours to get em out.

Marvelous Marv 07-02-2005 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billege
My post was supposed to be on it's face absurd, especially throwing out what I did, and more to the point HOW I did, comments about various states laws.

No one's being overly serious on THIS message board...
Thank god at least one of you got a laugh.

I got it!

:lol:

Marvelous Marv 07-02-2005 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba
"Specifically Prohibited: Firecrackers, skyrockets, salutes, chasers, and bottle rockets."

I think, but I'm not certain, that "salutes" are roman candles. I have no idea what a "chaser" is.

Have a great time. :)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/MikeFer/NV151.gif

They zip around on the ground while whistling, then blow up.

Elphaba 07-02-2005 07:32 PM

Eep! That would spook the hell out of me if children or pets were around. Any idea what a "salute" is?

Martian 07-02-2005 07:36 PM

Wow, comparing fireworks laws with communism is just not funny.

I mean, everyone knows communists are extinct. Terrorists, man, terrorists! If you don't blow shit up in your backyard on the 4th of July, the terrorists have won.

kel 07-03-2005 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian
Wow, comparing fireworks laws with communism is just not funny.

I mean, everyone knows communists are extinct. Terrorists, man, terrorists! If you don't blow shit up in your backyard on the 4th of July, the terrorists have won.

Communists? Extinct? Where were you when communism won the cold war before it even started?

snowy 07-03-2005 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba
I live out in the boonies with fewer than half full-time residents. The rest come in from the city to their vacation homes loaded with explosives and alcohol. It is the worst weekend of the year for the full-timers.

Hahaha...my parents live in a community near the Hood Canal that swells to three times its size during the summer season. Fourth of July is a giant headache, to be sure, but the display put on around the bay where they live is AMAZING.

jorgelito 07-05-2005 09:49 PM

To add a different angle to the discussion:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/05/tan....ap/index.html

I wonder: Where does one person's rights begin and another one's ends?

Funny things is, for all the communism rheotric, communist China has tons of fireworks available. Just visit there during their New Year.

shakran 07-06-2005 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan
Considering the number of fires that were started on Victoria Day this year in Toronto due to the incorrect use of fireworks I don't have a problem with putting certain restrictions on the sale of fireworks.


And considering my neighbor is an idiot and launches his mortars at a 45 degree angle toward my house, I don't have a problem either. Ended up having to call the cops on him this year because one shot into a tree near my house and exploded. Not much left of the tree.

guthmund 07-06-2005 05:21 AM

Arkansas, along with quite a few other states it seems, doesn't care too much about my safety pertaining to fireworks. There's an age restriction and that's about it.

When I moved into this neighborhood about 6 months ago, the guys next door kept telling me to wait til the fourth. Apparently every year they had a big block party with BBQ grills going in every yard, the guy down the street brought his trampoline out for the kids, there would be beer for the grown-ups and, most importantly, some killer fireworks for all.

This year it didn't happen. The city council made it illegal to shoot off fireworks inside city limits a few weeks ago.

Here's what I think.... I'm a grown man. I'm responsible enough to maintain a household, I'm responsible enough to keep a job. Society trusts me enough to grant me a license to use of my speeding, metal, four-wheeled death machine, to carry a gun to hunt and the use of poisons to get rid of 'varmints' around the house. For some reason, however, they don't trust me enough to light a few fireworks.

Yes, there are a lot of idiots out there. But if society is going to punish the lot for the actions of a few bad (or just incredibly stupid) folks out there... well, you get the gist, right?

tooth 07-06-2005 10:19 AM

This is right up there with the mandatory seat-belt laws. :rolleyes:

Look, if I want to blow my hand off, or light my house on fire, let me. That's my problem. If I light my neighbor's house on fire, well there are other laws in place that cover that sort of stupidity, aren't there?


Let me have some damn fireworks. I'll take responsibility for whatever carnage I unleash if I get careless with them.

Jinn 07-06-2005 10:33 AM

Quote:

This is right up there with the mandatory seat-belt laws.

Look, if I want to blow my hand off, or light my house on fire, let me. That's my problem. If I light my neighbor's house on fire, well there are other laws in place that cover that sort of stupidity, aren't there?


Let me have some damn fireworks. I'll take responsibility for whatever carnage I unleash if I get careless with them.
I agree with this 99%. The one stipulation I have is that in Colorado, its hard to put a value on the 10,000 acres of forest you could burn down. I think there's a time and a place, and that can be mandated without impeding on normal intelligent citizens.

Elphaba 07-06-2005 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooth
This is right up there with the mandatory seat-belt laws. :rolleyes:

Look, if I want to blow my hand off, or light my house on fire, let me. That's my problem. If I light my neighbor's house on fire, well there are other laws in place that cover that sort of stupidity, aren't there?


Let me have some damn fireworks. I'll take responsibility for whatever carnage I unleash if I get careless with them.

In the local paper today was a report of two very drunk guys shooting off a home made cannon. The neighbors were not pleased, and the police were not amused when the two idiots wanted to get hostile. They are currently guests of the county. :lol:

NoSoup 07-06-2005 12:58 PM

Specifically Permitted: Cylinder fountains, cone fountains, sparklers containing no magnesium, chlorate or perchlorate; snakes containing no mercury, small smoke devices.

Specifically Prohibited: Firecrackers, wheels, torpedoes, skyrockets, roman candles, aerial salutes, and bombs.


If I really got ambitious, I would take pictures... but although apparently illegal, my neighbors had a field day with Skyrockets, roman candles, and firecrackers - my yard is littered with the remains of the bottle rockets and firecrackers.

I would like to point out, in case you missed it, that Bombs are specifically prohibited here in Wisconsin :D

shakran 07-06-2005 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooth
This is right up there with the mandatory seat-belt laws.


No, it's not. If you fuck up while not wearing a seat belt and roll your car, you get hurt, or possibly die.

If you fuck up while messing with fireworks and shoot them at someone, they get hurt, or possibly die.

I'm not saying fireworks should or should not be illegal. But to say that legislating a device that you can hurt others with is the same as legislating a device that you can only hurt YOURSELF with is absurd.

Gilda 07-06-2005 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooth
This is right up there with the mandatory seat-belt laws. :rolleyes:

Look, if I want to blow my hand off, or light my house on fire, let me. That's my problem. If I light my neighbor's house on fire, well there are other laws in place that cover that sort of stupidity, aren't there?


Let me have some damn fireworks. I'll take responsibility for whatever carnage I unleash if I get careless with them.

1. When someone sets something of fire due to carelessness, the fire department responds, at no direct cost to the person who set the fire. Likewise, fire department paramedics responding to fireworks related injuries incur a cost to the city or county not paid by the person carelessly setting off fireworks. These costs give the city and county a vested interest in reducing the number of fireworks related fires and injuries.

2. A home set on fire seldom affects just the person who was careless. Frequently there are others who live in that home. Fires can spread to dry grasses, other homes, and cause property damage and physical harm to others. Firefighters are often injured or even killed fighting structure fires.

3. Private ambulance companies have to have extra staff on duty during the days around the fourth of July because of people injuring themselves or others. These people are unable to spend the holiday with their loved ones.

4. ER's get crowded and often backed up, affecting everyone who needs emergent care, and requiring extra staffing.

When someone starts a fire or injures themselves and calls 911 due to misusing fireworks, they've affected other people, possibly a great many other people, both directly and indirectly.

Where I live fire department calls increased by a factor of 3 during the first few days of July, mostly as a result of misuse of fireworks. My wife's ambulance company had its calls doubled.

guthmund 07-07-2005 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda
{/snip}

But that's true of any accident, isn't it? I mean, an accidental fire is an accidental fire is an accidental fire, right? The numbers are only outrageous because the pool that's drawn on is so much larger and the time frame those numbers fit into is so much smaller. If everyone decided to sky dive on Sept 23rd, then I imagine the numbers for "deaths due to sky diving mishap" would double or triple. I also imagine (if I can take it the other direction for a moment) that if fireworks were allowed to be purchased and used year round (Arkansas restricts sale to two times a year) those numbers would even out.

Are they dangerous? Sure they can be, but what isn't? The federal government has no problem with people using guns as long as they abide by the rules. The local government has no problem with people using guns as long as they abide by the rules. Once you break a rule, however, you're fair game.

Why isn't it the same with fireworks? I'm a responsible adult. Why aren't I allowed to use fireworks in my yard as long as I abide by the rules? If I set someone's house on fire or blow someone's hand off with an errant firework, I should be punished and will gladly pay the consequences.

The point is, I should be punished only after the rules have been broken, not that there's the possibility I might break them.

Set guidelines, strengthen the already existing rules, but to ban them outright? That seems a little heavy handed to me.

billege 07-07-2005 07:43 AM

The debate is not a new one, or at least the arguments I'm seeing are not the least bit creative.

It's the old: "Address the item, not the behavior" plan of action.

You got a problem with people shooting people? >>Ban firearms.
You got a problem with people driving and using cells >>Ban cells in cars.
You got a problem with people being assholes with fireworks >> Ban fireworks.
You got a problem with teenage drinking >>Raise drinking age. (Ban teenage drinking)
You got a problem with teenage pregnancy >>Ban sex education. (Oh wait, we're trying that plan in schools right now...."abstinence only"....right....)
You got a problem with "insert item here" >> Ban item.

It's an effective way to reduce the incidence of whatever's bothering you, at least until you start thinking about it deeply. Then most of it falls apart.

There's no way I'm dumb enough to get involved in a debate on firearms laws (in this thread anyway), drinking laws, or the effectiveness of fireworks laws. I will debate the principle of banning an artifact rather than the behavior.

The article linked earlier about a guy driving a truck getting shot in the head by a firework is a fine example of bad behavior. I do not see it as an example of how fireworks are inherently evil. But, I see how someone else could see it that way. I don’t agree, of course, but I can see where false logic would lead someone else.
The bottle rocket didn't shoot itself into the guy's truck. The 8 kids with no supervision did. They particular tools they used certainly have more potential for damage than say, a bag of cotton balls.

We could say, “Use fireworks like an ASSHOLE, and we’ll treat you like one." But, that’s too reactive for some people, so we ban fireworks. I shot off a ton of fireworks on the 3rd. It had rained 4 days in the previous week, so everything was nice and moist. Had it been really dry (like it was before all that good rain) I’d like to think I’m smart enough to have sucked it up and not shot them. Anyway, I aimed the stuff into an empty field, and didn’t hold any thing while it went off; except some sparklers. My wife and I enjoyed them. When we were done, I wet down the big tubes (the display tubes that shoot sparks and stuff up in the air) and we swept up all the crap in the street from our little show. Then we threw the stuff away. That was socially responsible behavior.
If only more people understood that everyday actions shape how other people react.


Unfortunately, we can't ban people with anti-social, or irresponsible, behavior patterns. Instead we try and regulate the materials they have available to be irresponsible with. I’m afraid to break it to the general population, but after seeing some of the idiots I’ve seen through life, we’re not going to solve our issues like this until we put a large number of people in padded rooms.

I’ve seen dumbasses that can cause problems with leaf blowers. Guy blowing leaves into his neighbor’s yard, neighbor does not appreciate this. Is the solution to ban leaf blowers?

No, but we could draw and argue piddley little examples like this all day. The point never changes. Society can suck it up and attempt to address behavior, or ban things until there’s nothing left to get in trouble with. We’ll see where it goes, but it should be obvious where we’re going at this point in our society.


Edit:
I came accross this just now.
article

Quote:

ALBUQUERQUE -- Doctors are trying to save the life of an Albuquerque baby shot in the head by a bullet that fell from the sky Monday night. The bullet was likely fired into the air during a July 4th celebration.

The 11-month-old, named Alyssa, is being treated at UNM hospital and is in critical condition.

While she is fighting to stay alive, police are trying to find out who put her there.

One Monday night Alyssa’s family was wrapping up their 4th of July party at their grandmother’s house in southwest Albuquerque.

Alyssa's grandmother was just holding the baby in her driveway on Sunbow Court when the baby suddenly cried out and blood began to drip from her head.

“(The Bullet) entered in rear quadrant (of the baby’s head) and exited out and embedded into shoulder,” says John Walsh of the Albuquerque Police Department.

Police have recovered the bullet and have determined it came from a high caliber gun. Forensics tests will help determine more.

Police say finding the person who fired the gun could be tough. Depending on the caliber or gunpowder, the bullet could have traveled anywhere between a few hundred yards up to a mile.

That's why police are asking for help identifying anyone who was firing a high caliber gun in southwest Albuquerque on Monday night.

Alyssa did undergo surgery to help repair the gunshot wound in her head and shoulder. She remains in pediatric intensive care.

If you have any information about someone firing a gun Monday, you’re asked to call 242-COPS.

Now that shit, that pisses me off. It still wasn't the gun though, it was the asshole who shot it in the air. Man I hate that. I hope by some miracle they find that guy.

MSD 07-08-2005 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba
Eep! That would spook the hell out of me if children or pets were around. Any idea what a "salute" is?

Salutes are a mixture of black powder (or equivalent, I like Pyrodex because it's more powerful and smoke-free,) and magnesium dust that flash bright white and produce a distinct report.


The ironic thing about fireworks laws is that people like me will just make what they can't buy. At least I have the good sense to set them off in remote areas where I'm unlikely to be reported for acts of terrorism or injure anyone other than myself in case of an accident.

cellophanedeity 07-08-2005 07:54 AM

You can't ban stupidity, so you have no choice but to ban the tools of the stupid, even if it hurts the intelligent.

Cynthetiq 07-08-2005 11:42 AM

even the Chinese cannot celebrate Chinese New Year's with firecrackers to scare away the Dancing Dragon here in NYC.

Guiliani did a huge crackdown a number of years ago and it's stayed on the DL ever since.

Gilda 07-08-2005 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guthmund
But that's true of any accident, isn't it? I mean, an accidental fire is an accidental fire is an accidental fire, right? The numbers are only outrageous because the pool that's drawn on is so much larger and the time frame those numbers fit into is so much smaller. I also imagine (if I can take it the other direction for a moment) that if fireworks were allowed to be purchased and used year round (Arkansas restricts sale to two times a year) those numbers would even out.

No, the pool is exactly the same size. The numbers become outrageous due to the fact that people in the US associate Independance Day with fireworks.
My Filipino neighbor was remarking the other day that she finds it strange that people set off fireworks on the 4th of July but not Christmas. Even if fireworks were legal year round there would very likely be a big spike around the 4th.

This seems to be good reasoning for banning fireworks year round--when fireworks are legal, emergency calls to the fire department triple, and other emergency services spike.

Quote:

Are they dangerous? Sure they can be, but what isn't? The federal government has no problem with people using guns as long as they abide by the rules. The local government has no problem with people using guns as long as they abide by the rules. Once you break a rule, however, you're fair game.
Apples and oranges. There are so many differences between guns and fireworks that they don't belong in the same neighborhood of debate.

Quote:

Why isn't it the same with fireworks? I'm a responsible adult. Why aren't I allowed to use fireworks in my yard as long as I abide by the rules? If I set someone's house on fire or blow someone's hand off with an errant firework, I should be punished and will gladly pay the consequences.
Wouldn't it be better not to have the fire set or the hand injured in the first place? Laws banning fireworks aren't about responsible use, they're about irresponsible use. In the process of curbing the latter, the former end up getting caught in the web.

Quote:

The point is, I should be punished only after the rules have been broken, not that there's the possibility I might break them.
Sure. And if fireworks are banned, you are breaking the rules merely buy setting them off. The point is to prevent the unnecessary fires and injuries in the first place, rather than reacting to massive, widespread misuse after the fact.

Gilda 07-08-2005 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billege
The debate is not a new one, or at least the arguments I'm seeing are not the least bit creative.

It's the old: "Address the item, not the behavior" plan of action.

You got a problem with people shooting people? >>Ban firearms.
You got a problem with people driving and using cells >>Ban cells in cars.
You got a problem with people being assholes with fireworks >> Ban fireworks.
You got a problem with teenage drinking >>Raise drinking age. (Ban teenage drinking)
You got a problem with teenage pregnancy >>Ban sex education. (Oh wait, we're trying that plan in schools right now...."abstinence only"....right....)
You got a problem with "insert item here" >> Ban item.

Those aren't even remotely parallel. First, not gonna address guns, for reasons stated above.

People driving and using cells: Nobody is trying to ban cell phones as a result, or even cell phones in cars. It is the irresponsible and dangerous activity of using a cell phone while driving that has been banned in many places. This is exactly what people, including you, have been arguing here--address the dangerous behavior, not the item.

Teenage drinking: This one again, doesn't really support your basic argument. Raising the drinking age isn't banning the item, alcohol, it's restricting behavior to those who are old enough to do it responsibly. Note that I am not debating drinking age laws here, merely pointing out that this example does not support your basic argument.

Teenage pregnancy: What item is being banned in your argument that when misused leads to pregnancy? I don't get this one at all.

Quote:

There's no way I'm dumb enough to get involved in a debate on firearms laws (in this thread anyway), drinking laws, or the effectiveness of fireworks laws. I will debate the principle of banning an artifact rather than the behavior.
Fair enough. Most of your examples don't involve banning an artifact anyway.

Quote:

The article linked earlier about a guy driving a truck getting shot in the head by a firework is a fine example of bad behavior. I do not see it as an example of how fireworks are inherently evil. But, I see how someone else could see it that way. I don’t agree, of course, but I can see where false logic would lead someone else.
Has anyone argued that fireworks are inherently evil? I don't see that anywhere.

Quote:

We could say, “Use fireworks like an ASSHOLE, and we’ll treat you like one." But, that’s too reactive for some people, so we ban fireworks. I shot off a ton of fireworks on the 3rd. It had rained 4 days in the previous week, so everything was nice and moist. Had it been really dry (like it was before all that good rain) I’d like to think I’m smart enough to have sucked it up and not shot them. Anyway, I aimed the stuff into an empty field, and didn’t hold any thing while it went off; except some sparklers. My wife and I enjoyed them. When we were done, I wet down the big tubes (the display tubes that shoot sparks and stuff up in the air) and we swept up all the crap in the street from our little show. Then we threw the stuff away. That was socially responsible behavior.
Unfortunately there are a lot of inconsiderate and stupid people out there. Let me counter with an anecdote of my own. The townhome complex where I live has communal mailboxes all located in a central kiosk. Grace and I happen to own and rent several of the units, so we like to take a little pride in the appearance of the grounds. The mailboxes get stuffed with news print flyers and other direct mail advertising every day, and some jerks had the habit of throwing it on the ground rather than taking it home or walking to the dumpster, both easy solutions. So we put a large trash can right next to the mail boxes for people to throw their junk mail flyers in, with a notice regarding what can be thrown in it (flyers only, no envelopes and no garbage) and it worked like a charm. No more litter. July second, I go to get the mail, and there are spent fireworks in there, thrown on top of the flyers, with more thrown on top, a big fire hazard.

Does this indicate a need to ban fireworks? Of course not, the irresponsible behavior of one person or one incident doesn't necessarily reflect that of the whole group. Nor does responsible behavior on the part of one person neccesarily reflect that of the whole group. We have to look at the behavior of the group as a whole before deciding what to do regarding a certain problem.

In my community, fire calls tripled during the four days fireworks were legal, and emergency calls at Grace's ambulance service at least doubled. This is evidence of how this particular community handles fireworks as a whole, ie, poorly.

Quote:

If only more people understood that everyday actions shape how other people react.
Exactly.

Quote:

Unfortunately, we can't ban people with anti-social, or irresponsible, behavior patterns. Instead we try and regulate the materials they have available to be irresponsible with.
In the case of fireworks, it seems a reasonable solution to me.

Let me refer back to this argument:

Quote:

I aimed the stuff into an empty field, and didn’t hold any thing while it went off; except some sparklers. My wife and I enjoyed them. When we were done, I wet down the big tubes (the display tubes that shoot sparks and stuff up in the air) and we swept up all the crap in the street from our little show. Then we threw the stuff away. That was socially responsible behavior.
I see the same anecdotal argument over and over again as regards to a great many things that are restricted/banned in our society, or rules that apply to the general populace. The basic argument goes like this:

If I can do activity/use item A safely and responsibly, then activity/item A shouldn't be banned/regulated/restricted/illegal. This is arguing by anecdote. One good example is no more compelling than one bad example.

Laws have to apply the same to everyone, so it's neccesary to determine what the global effect of all people who engage in activity A is on society as a whole, and balance the benefit of that activity to society and to the individual against the harm that activity causes the community as a whole.

When there are no basic human rights involved--and there aren't any here--It becomes a matter of what the effect would be and where to draw the line. If it were a few idiots causing a small number of problems, then the answer is exactly as you propose. When there are so many people behaving irresponsibly that fire calls triple, it becomes a problem for the community. I think banning is a reasonable solution.

Frowning Budah 07-09-2005 02:45 AM

I love it. Firework bans are one of those laws that sounds good, but most people don't like the law so they just ignore it and becuase everryone is doing it the cops pretty much ignore it at well.
Exploding fireworks are suppose to be illegal here, but they were shooting them off right next to the cop cars. No arrests.

lin333 06-20-2011 06:51 PM

fireworks illegal in MA
 
I am truly laughing about this illegal use of fireworks in MA-you have to have a license to use them? It is 3 weeks before the 4th of July, and we hear and see fireworks shooting all over the place, and the police station is right down the road! It is just another way for the Commonwealth to gauge the tax payers-this is one reason I detest the state of Massachusetts, even though I grew up here. Another amusing thing is that most crack house, prostitutes, and drug deals go on right around the police station, yet nothing is done. Most cops are probably copping the drugs themselves, and then going to plant their asses on the stools at Dunkin Donuts! You need a license for this, for that, for another, and the DMV is allowed to set their own fees. What a racket! What else is the government going to regulate-I wonder and it makes me personally sick and disgusted!:mad::mad:

noodle 06-21-2011 02:31 AM

I saw this today after learning that there are 157 fires burning within 50 miles of my city.
Light a firework and I'll punch you in the mouth myself. Suck it up, there is usually a reason.

Ourcrazymodern? 06-21-2011 09:57 AM

I'm gonna blow some bottle rockets out the window just for that. It's illegal, but we're saturated. I used to think South Dakota was cool until they voted out their Speaker of the House. Old Glory needs a few explosions. Maybe I'll use the whistling ones.

ring 06-21-2011 03:38 PM

A few images may be graphic.


AbelG 07-20-2011 12:48 AM

of all this, fireworks law should be carefully reviewed.

ASU2003 07-20-2011 04:53 PM

I'll let the professionals handle it. It is cheaper that way too. And I don't have to worry about blowing myself up.

boink 07-22-2011 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba (Post 1828036)
Washington prohibits all of the usual suspects, but you can buy all of that and more on the Indian Reservations. Since there is little or no enforcement, the 4th of July is three months long. :(

yeah, it's annoying. funny when I was a kid, I mean like a ten yr old, I could and did buy fireworks. my friends and I would always have a few for a week or so before the 4th and of course a box of them for the night of the 4th.

that was when you rode a Schwinn stingray barefoot and w/o a helmet

now that I'm old I'm fine with them being illegal, I prefer it.

I don't really care if the kids blow all their fingers off, I just don't want them to blow my shit up.


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