No Butt's About It - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

maleficent · 07-24-2005, 06:22 PM

No Butts, Bill to stop drivers from lighting up behind the wheel

By JEFF LINKOUS
TRENTON, N.J. -- Ashtrays have been disappearing in cars like fins on Cadillacs, and so could smoking while driving in New Jersey, under a measure introduced in the Legislature.

Although the measure faces long odds, it still has smokers incensed and tearing into the idea as a Big Brother intrusion that threatens to take away one of the few places they can enjoy their habit.

"The day a politician wants to tell me I can't smoke in my car, that's the day he takes over my lease payments," said John Cito, a financial planner from Hackensack with a taste for $20 cigars.

Those cigars, pipes and cigarettes would become no-nos for drivers. Offenders would be stung with a fine of up to $250, under the measure, whose sponsor said it's designed more to improve highway safety than protect health.

Assemblyman John McKeon, a tobacco opponent whose father died of emphysema, sponsored the legislation. He cites a AAA-sponsored study on driver distractions in which the automobile association found that of 32,000 accidents linked to distraction, one percent were related to smoking.

In the past, McKeon has also sponsored legislation to prohibit smoking in college dormitory rooms.

His latest measure, co-sponsored by fellow Democrat, Assemblywoman Lorretta Weinberg, comes on the heels of a proposal to ban smoking in bars, restaurants and the state's casinos. The smoking while driving ban shifts the smoking debate to private property.

The measure, introduced last month just before lawmakers' summer break, faces some improbable odds for passing.

Some lawmakers may fear the bill is frivolous compared with more pressing issues like taxes, said political analyst David Rebovich.

And there's this to consider: Traffic safety groups acknowledge motorists now widely ignore the state's year-old law against using hand-held cell phones, so why would smoking be any different?

Mitchell Sklar of the New Jersey State Association of Chiefs of Police, said police departments may balk at enforcing such a law.

"In general, we'd rather not try to incrementally look at every single behavior and make those a violation," he said.

Some states, including New Jersey, have considered putting the brakes on smoking while children are in the car. But none have gone for an outright ban on smoking while driving, according to Washington, D.C.-based Action on Smoking and Health, the country's oldest anti-tobacco organization.

Earlier this year, lawmakers in Germany proposed a ban on smoking while driving as a traffic safety measure.

Smokers, feeling like easy targets, say enough already. They argue they've been forced outside office buildings, run off the grounds of public facilities, and asked to pony up more in per-pack excise taxes when states feel a budget squeeze.

"With smoking, it's becoming increasingly fashionable to target legislation or prohibitions," said George Koodray, a member of the Metropolitan Cigar Society, a 100-strong group that meets in Paterson for dinner and a smoke.

A driving ban, said suburban Chicago smoker Garnet Dawn Scheuer, is "completely asinine. It's unbelievable that they want to try it. People have been smoking in their cars since cars were invented."

Scheuer, who tracks anti-smoking measures in the Midwest and Northeast for the New Hampshire-based Smokers Club Inc., disputes the distraction argument.

"You don't have to look at a cigarette to light it," she said.

Cito, who's also a member of the cigar society, was more blunt.

"They put it all under the ruse of this other crap. It's government interference. What's next my house?" he asked.

Maybe, said Assemblyman McKeon, "If your house was on four wheels and going 70 mph, you're right I would."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK, so it's more about safetly than health - the news tonite quoted a AAA figure that out of the 32,000 accidents each year that are caused by distractions, only 1 percent of those are do to smoking... What's next? No radios? Take mirrors out of cars because heaven forbid someone should get caught primping. No children in cars either, because yelling at the kids in the back seat could distract you...

Borgs · 07-24-2005, 06:46 PM

Just another attack on Big Tobacco, I doubt that it will pass. I would tend to think, however, that any accidents caused by smoking have more to do with the driver than the tobacco.

guthmund · 07-24-2005, 06:46 PM

Yeah, it's about the safety, right Assemblyman?

Sounds like he's managed to latch his personal vendetta on to a relatively popular public crusade.

I don't see it going anywhere, like you said, you can't possibly justify banning smoking in a car without taking a very serious look at all the other distractions.

Good to see our public servants are tackling the serious issues, though.

bunch of morons.

Ustwo · 07-24-2005, 06:51 PM

While I think smoking is the stupidest habbit one can have, there is politician needs a few backhanded slaps.

maleficent · 07-24-2005, 06:51 PM

Now, I love my home state of NJ (Shaddup) but this is really stupid, what happens if there are two people in the car and the passenger is smoking.. Is that allowed?

Interestingly enough, NJ smoking is still allowed in bars and restaurants...

Although the upside to this might be to get people to move out of the state, there are already too damn many people here anyhow, and the state just isnt that big... maybe it will lower property values actually making property affordable for people.

NJ has the highest auto insurance rates in the country, so, does a non-smoker, a non-distracted driver, get a discount on the insurance?

Fremen · 07-24-2005, 07:02 PM

That's insane!
Why don't they go after the people that eat while driving, while putting their make-up on using the rearview mirror going 65 mph, all the while talking on the cellphone?

Then let's ban car singers while we're at it! And nose pickers! And backseat farters!

/made myself sick

MSD · 07-24-2005, 07:11 PM

See my signature for an opinion that I find very relevant to this. This guy is trying to get revenge on tobacco companies because his father made the choice to smoke and died from it.

"Assemblyman John McKeon, a tobacco opponent whose father died of emphysema, sponsored the legislation. He cites a AAA-sponsored study on driver distractions in which the automobile association found that of 32,000 accidents linked to distraction, one percent were related to smoking."

A whole .00012% of the population has been affected by it and that justifies banning something which the government has absolutely no authority to regulate.

ElwoodBlues · 07-24-2005, 07:23 PM

So lemme get this straight. Because 320 car accidents ever recorded are possibly linked to smoking, an entire state can't smoke in their cars?

It's a load of bull. I hope it won't pass

ngdawg · 07-24-2005, 08:00 PM

/me lights up a cig in her car, goes by the NJ state legislature, tosses cigarette butt in parking lot...drives off and calls all her friends on her cell phone....

flat5 · 07-25-2005, 01:47 AM

I don't smoke and don't want to be around it.

I do think that someone driving home from work will be a more careful driver if they can indulge their smoking addiction before getting home.

Roark · 07-25-2005, 02:49 AM

Granted I don't smoke and i'm not big on the whole throw your butt's out the window deal for people that do but that's just a stupid law. Something like that is along the new law they passed in florida mandating you have to wear your seatbelt. I do everytime I get in a car but If I didn't the only person that effects is me seems more of a personal choice not something they should be able to govern.

Bill O'Rights · 07-25-2005, 05:09 AM

New Jersey...the new "Road Rage" capitol of the world.
Imagine all of the "nicotine fits" from smokers caught in traffic, stressed out, and no way to light up. It ain't gonna be a pretty sight, Becky.
I wonder what the accident stats are, for distraction caused by fiddling with radio knobs? I have no idea, but I'd be willing to place a sizable wager that it's higher than 1%. And yet...shhhh...listen...do ya hear it? That conspicuous silence over the issue of banning radios in cars? Don't snicker...based on the same logic, used by Assemblyman McKeon, it would make a lot more sense. Of course...the political fallout from such a move would be akin to an "Acme" 100 ton weight falling on the coyote's noggin.

Janey · 07-25-2005, 05:42 AM

It does seem extreme. What about the coffee drinkers? I would think that the lack of concentration brought on by lifting a coffee cup to your lips, would be about hte same as tapping a smoke on the ashtray...

Having said that though, my university housemate was killed in car crash brought on by smoking. He had looked down to open his pack of cigarettes, and drove into the back of a transport that was just merging onto the highway.

ngdawg · 07-25-2005, 09:17 AM

While I am truly sorry for your housemate's loss of life...any inattention could be blamed for many if not most of highway deaths. A friend sneezed and rammed a truck-sliced open his face in such a way he now has a permanent 'grin' up his cheek. My husband sneezed and hit a parked car.
OK, no sneezing allowed while driving?
Watch cell phone users. Mom's in their minivans full of kids. That man eating a Big Mac going 70mph....
Stupid is as stupid does....unfortunately, those that think they can handle 1,2,3 tons of moving metal while engaged in various other activities will, at some point, realize just how talented they aren't.

maleficent · 07-25-2005, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

New Jersey...the new "Road Rage" capitol of the world.
Imagine all of the "nicotine fits" from smokers caught in traffic, stressed out, and no way to light up. It ain't gonna be a pretty sight, Becky.

What do you mean NEW? Take a ride on Route 80 or 287 at rush hour...

pocon1 · 07-25-2005, 09:30 AM

nothing to say

JustJess · 07-25-2005, 11:00 AM

I dunno about leases, since it's not actually your car.. but otherwise, this is absolutely retarded. I don't like being around the smoke, but it's not my car. It's your car, or your car, or yours. What's next?
I think the seat belt law in NY is stupid too - if I want to be a dumbass and I'm not endangering other people, back the fuck off, buddy. How dare you fine me? Same for the car/smoking ban. Utterly ridiculous.

Punks.

maleficent · 07-25-2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocon1

I don't have a problem with people smoking in their cars, as long as they do not have children in their !

This was on the table a while ago in NJ, and I honestly don't know whether it passed or not... that it was a fineable offence if you smoked with a child in the car...

Ananas · 07-25-2005, 01:33 PM

Since this is purportedly a safety issue, the bill now needs to be amended to include the banning of GPS units, stereos, DVD players, all automatic window openers, mirrors, passengers and drivers. These are all distractions and compromise the safety of the population.

They should also legislate against government morons with personal agendas.

Johnny Pyro · 07-25-2005, 01:48 PM

I think this is just another attack on smokers and tobacco companies. Having a T.V., dvd player, and even a stereo are just as or more a distraction than smoking a cigarette. In Mass. there are no more smoking in resturants and bars. Anywhere public is banned. I don't go to bars no more because the fact you can't smoke really kills the fun of drinking. I gotta smoke and drink at the same time. Wasn't America partly founded on Tobacco?

DEI37 · 07-25-2005, 03:20 PM

I hate smoking, and the things that smokers can get away with. I am ALL for a nationwide ban on smoking in ANY public place. Your own car, and your own house is tolerable by me. You can kill yourself, and your family, but leave me out of that. What I hate is how much smokers litter. If you throw a flammable obect out the window of your car in to the dry grass, that's OK. But, Heaven forbid I toss out a napkin or something. I saw that today...the still smoking butt hit a passing car. I'd have been PISSED. Cars have ashtrays for a reason. USE THEM!!!! If you throw a butt out...ANYWHERE...road, grass, wherever, you ought to get slapped with a hefty littering fine.

07-24-2005, 06:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	No Butt's About It No Butts, Bill to stop drivers from lighting up behind the wheel By JEFF LINKOUS TRENTON, N.J. -- Ashtrays have been disappearing in cars like fins on Cadillacs, and so could smoking while driving in New Jersey, under a measure introduced in the Legislature. Although the measure faces long odds, it still has smokers incensed and tearing into the idea as a Big Brother intrusion that threatens to take away one of the few places they can enjoy their habit. "The day a politician wants to tell me I can't smoke in my car, that's the day he takes over my lease payments," said John Cito, a financial planner from Hackensack with a taste for $20 cigars. Those cigars, pipes and cigarettes would become no-nos for drivers. Offenders would be stung with a fine of up to $250, under the measure, whose sponsor said it's designed more to improve highway safety than protect health. Assemblyman John McKeon, a tobacco opponent whose father died of emphysema, sponsored the legislation. He cites a AAA-sponsored study on driver distractions in which the automobile association found that of 32,000 accidents linked to distraction, one percent were related to smoking. In the past, McKeon has also sponsored legislation to prohibit smoking in college dormitory rooms. His latest measure, co-sponsored by fellow Democrat, Assemblywoman Lorretta Weinberg, comes on the heels of a proposal to ban smoking in bars, restaurants and the state's casinos. The smoking while driving ban shifts the smoking debate to private property. The measure, introduced last month just before lawmakers' summer break, faces some improbable odds for passing. Some lawmakers may fear the bill is frivolous compared with more pressing issues like taxes, said political analyst David Rebovich. And there's this to consider: Traffic safety groups acknowledge motorists now widely ignore the state's year-old law against using hand-held cell phones, so why would smoking be any different? Mitchell Sklar of the New Jersey State Association of Chiefs of Police, said police departments may balk at enforcing such a law. "In general, we'd rather not try to incrementally look at every single behavior and make those a violation," he said. Some states, including New Jersey, have considered putting the brakes on smoking while children are in the car. But none have gone for an outright ban on smoking while driving, according to Washington, D.C.-based Action on Smoking and Health, the country's oldest anti-tobacco organization. Earlier this year, lawmakers in Germany proposed a ban on smoking while driving as a traffic safety measure. Smokers, feeling like easy targets, say enough already. They argue they've been forced outside office buildings, run off the grounds of public facilities, and asked to pony up more in per-pack excise taxes when states feel a budget squeeze. "With smoking, it's becoming increasingly fashionable to target legislation or prohibitions," said George Koodray, a member of the Metropolitan Cigar Society, a 100-strong group that meets in Paterson for dinner and a smoke. A driving ban, said suburban Chicago smoker Garnet Dawn Scheuer, is "completely asinine. It's unbelievable that they want to try it. People have been smoking in their cars since cars were invented." Scheuer, who tracks anti-smoking measures in the Midwest and Northeast for the New Hampshire-based Smokers Club Inc., disputes the distraction argument. "You don't have to look at a cigarette to light it," she said. Cito, who's also a member of the cigar society, was more blunt. "They put it all under the ruse of this other crap. It's government interference. What's next my house?" he asked. Maybe, said Assemblyman McKeon, "If your house was on four wheels and going 70 mph, you're right I would." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OK, so it's more about safetly than health - the news tonite quoted a AAA figure that out of the 32,000 accidents each year that are caused by distractions, only 1 percent of those are do to smoking... What's next? No radios? Take mirrors out of cars because heaven forbid someone should get caught primping. No children in cars either, because yelling at the kids in the back seat could distract you... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

07-24-2005, 06:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	Yeah, it's about the safety, right Assemblyman? Sounds like he's managed to latch his personal vendetta on to a relatively popular public crusade. I don't see it going anywhere, like you said, you can't possibly justify banning smoking in a car without taking a very serious look at all the other distractions. Good to see our public servants are tackling the serious issues, though. bunch of morons. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

07-24-2005, 06:51 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	While I think smoking is the stupidest habbit one can have, there is politician needs a few backhanded slaps. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 07-24-2005 at 08:24 PM..

07-24-2005, 06:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Now, I love my home state of NJ (Shaddup) but this is really stupid, what happens if there are two people in the car and the passenger is smoking.. Is that allowed? Interestingly enough, NJ smoking is still allowed in bars and restaurants... Although the upside to this might be to get people to move out of the state, there are already too damn many people here anyhow, and the state just isnt that big... maybe it will lower property values actually making property affordable for people. NJ has the highest auto insurance rates in the country, so, does a non-smoker, a non-distracted driver, get a discount on the insurance? __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

07-24-2005, 07:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
Fremen With a mustache, the cool factor would be too much Location: left side of my couch, East Texas	That's insane! Why don't they go after the people that eat while driving, while putting their make-up on using the rearview mirror going 65 mph, all the while talking on the cellphone? Then let's ban car singers while we're at it! And nose pickers! And backseat farters! /made myself sick __________________ Google

07-24-2005, 06:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
Borgs Tilted	Just another attack on Big Tobacco, I doubt that it will pass. I would tend to think, however, that any accidents caused by smoking have more to do with the driver than the tobacco.

07-24-2005, 07:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	See my signature for an opinion that I find very relevant to this. This guy is trying to get revenge on tobacco companies because his father made the choice to smoke and died from it. "Assemblyman John McKeon, a tobacco opponent whose father died of emphysema, sponsored the legislation. He cites a AAA-sponsored study on driver distractions in which the automobile association found that of 32,000 accidents linked to distraction, one percent were related to smoking." A whole .00012% of the population has been affected by it and that justifies banning something which the government has absolutely no authority to regulate.

07-24-2005, 07:23 PM	#8 (permalink)
ElwoodBlues Psycho Location: Massachusetts	So lemme get this straight. Because 320 car accidents ever recorded are possibly linked to smoking, an entire state can't smoke in their cars? It's a load of bull. I hope it won't pass __________________ I think Pringles initial intention was to make tennis balls. But on the day that the rubber was supposed to show up, a big truckload of potatoes arrived. But Pringles is a laid back company. They said "Fuck it. Cut em up." -Mitch Hedberg, '68-'05 Bauer's the man.

07-24-2005, 08:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	/me lights up a cig in her car, goes by the NJ state legislature, tosses cigarette butt in parking lot...drives off and calls all her friends on her cell phone.... __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

07-25-2005, 01:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	I don't smoke and don't want to be around it. I do think that someone driving home from work will be a more careful driver if they can indulge their smoking addiction before getting home.

07-25-2005, 02:49 AM	#11 (permalink)
Roark Insane	Granted I don't smoke and i'm not big on the whole throw your butt's out the window deal for people that do but that's just a stupid law. Something like that is along the new law they passed in florida mandating you have to wear your seatbelt. I do everytime I get in a car but If I didn't the only person that effects is me seems more of a personal choice not something they should be able to govern.

07-25-2005, 05:09 AM	#12 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	New Jersey...the new "Road Rage" capitol of the world. Imagine all of the "nicotine fits" from smokers caught in traffic, stressed out, and no way to light up. It ain't gonna be a pretty sight, Becky. I wonder what the accident stats are, for distraction caused by fiddling with radio knobs? I have no idea, but I'd be willing to place a sizable wager that it's higher than 1%. And yet...shhhh...listen...do ya hear it? That conspicuous silence over the issue of banning radios in cars? Don't snicker...based on the same logic, used by Assemblyman McKeon, it would make a lot more sense. Of course...the political fallout from such a move would be akin to an "Acme" 100 ton weight falling on the coyote's noggin. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

07-25-2005, 05:42 AM	#13 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	It does seem extreme. What about the coffee drinkers? I would think that the lack of concentration brought on by lifting a coffee cup to your lips, would be about hte same as tapping a smoke on the ashtray... Having said that though, my university housemate was killed in car crash brought on by smoking. He had looked down to open his pack of cigarettes, and drove into the back of a transport that was just merging onto the highway.

07-25-2005, 09:17 AM	#14 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	While I am truly sorry for your housemate's loss of life...any inattention could be blamed for many if not most of highway deaths. A friend sneezed and rammed a truck-sliced open his face in such a way he now has a permanent 'grin' up his cheek. My husband sneezed and hit a parked car. OK, no sneezing allowed while driving? Watch cell phone users. Mom's in their minivans full of kids. That man eating a Big Mac going 70mph.... Stupid is as stupid does....unfortunately, those that think they can handle 1,2,3 tons of moving metal while engaged in various other activities will, at some point, realize just how talented they aren't. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

07-25-2005, 09:30 AM	#16 (permalink)
pocon1 Banned	nothing to say Last edited by pocon1; 07-06-2008 at 10:04 PM..

07-25-2005, 11:00 AM	#17 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	I dunno about leases, since it's not actually your car.. but otherwise, this is absolutely retarded. I don't like being around the smoke, but it's not my car. It's your car, or your car, or yours. What's next? I think the seat belt law in NY is stupid too - if I want to be a dumbass and I'm not endangering other people, back the fuck off, buddy. How dare you fine me? Same for the car/smoking ban. Utterly ridiculous. Punks. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

07-25-2005, 01:33 PM	#19 (permalink)
Ananas Still Crazy Location: In my own time	Since this is purportedly a safety issue, the bill now needs to be amended to include the banning of GPS units, stereos, DVD players, all automatic window openers, mirrors, passengers and drivers. These are all distractions and compromise the safety of the population. They should also legislate against government morons with personal agendas. __________________ it's gritty

07-25-2005, 01:48 PM	#20 (permalink)
Johnny Pyro Hey Now! Location: Massachusetts (Redneck, white boy town. I hate it here.)	I think this is just another attack on smokers and tobacco companies. Having a T.V., dvd player, and even a stereo are just as or more a distraction than smoking a cigarette. In Mass. there are no more smoking in resturants and bars. Anywhere public is banned. I don't go to bars no more because the fact you can't smoke really kills the fun of drinking. I gotta smoke and drink at the same time. Wasn't America partly founded on Tobacco? __________________ "From delusion lead me to truth, from darkness lead me to light, from death lead me to eternal life. - Sheriff John Wydell

07-25-2005, 03:20 PM	#21 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	I hate smoking, and the things that smokers can get away with. I am ALL for a nationwide ban on smoking in ANY public place. Your own car, and your own house is tolerable by me. You can kill yourself, and your family, but leave me out of that. What I hate is how much smokers litter. If you throw a flammable obect out the window of your car in to the dry grass, that's OK. But, Heaven forbid I toss out a napkin or something. I saw that today...the still smoking butt hit a passing car. I'd have been PISSED. Cars have ashtrays for a reason. USE THEM!!!! If you throw a butt out...ANYWHERE...road, grass, wherever, you ought to get slapped with a hefty littering fine. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.