Any New Yorkers here? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mephisto2 · 06-07-2005, 01:20 PM

What do you think about the Public Authorities Control Board effectively scuttling your city's bid to host the 2012 Olympics?

I've read that, if the stadium had been approved, you would have joined London and Paris as a front-runner.

Mr Mephisto

Jesus Pimp · 06-07-2005, 01:24 PM

I could care less. I'm glad the Jets stadium was not approved.

Mephisto2 · 06-07-2005, 01:55 PM

Isn't just a contradiction?

Mr Mephisto

Cynthetiq · 06-07-2005, 02:24 PM

I for one was quite happy to see the current stadium plans scuttled.

Things tend to take quite some time to get large gargantuan things like this through all the courts, community boards, etc. yet this one seemed to be on a fast track? How come? Who's interests were being catered to?

Between that stadium and the Nets stadium that they want to put in Brooklyn it would effectively displace tens of thousands of people, and if it did not do it directly immediately it would by gentrification and rising housing rates.

Personally I felt the idea was a rushed half thought out plan. Sheldon Silver, my assemblyman and one that abstained his vote, I applaud for his concern for the constiuents of the people who live in his district (Lower Manhattan including my neighborhoood Lower Eastside, and WTC.)

If it were not for Mr. Silver they would be breaking ground a few blocks from where I live to put up low income housing. The LES has the highest density of low income housing than any other area of Manhattan. Yet there seems to not be any lower income housing being planned out for say, Upper West/East Side...

I lived in LA during the 84 Olympics. I know that was one of the games that was profitable for the city but from what I recall it's normally not profitable for most cities.

Mephisto2 · 06-07-2005, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

Who's interests were being catered to?

The Olympic Bid Committee apparently.

Quote:

I lived in LA during the 84 Olympics. I know that was one of the games that was profitable for the city but from what I recall it's normally not profitable for most cities.

But there's lots of kudos and intangible benefits from the Olympics. I worked for IBM in the lead up to the Sydney Olympics. Fun times. And the buzz in the city during the event was amazing.

Mr Mephisto

spindles · 06-07-2005, 04:03 PM

Not only during the event - look at the sporting facilities that were built for the olympics, that did not exist before. You can't just look at the monetary benefits.

eribrav · 06-07-2005, 04:20 PM

Another NY'er here (albeit out in the country), another one glad to see it go down the tubes.

Mr. M, the catering was not to the Olympic Bid Committee. The gentleman who owns the NY Jets football team is a billionare, yet he was going to buy the land from the Metropolitan Transit Authority at a huge discount to its actual worth, then take hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to build his stadium, so he could make more billions. The MTA doesn't even have enough money to run the subways right now, yet they were supposed to line this guy's pockets?

There have been some excellent editorials written about this in the NY Times. I'm sorry I don't have an exact reference but you may want to search their archives.

ubertuber · 06-07-2005, 05:29 PM

If we ever wanted a 2nd ave subway or a waterfront redevelopment, the Olympics was the only realistic hope of getting them. We won't be able to fund those projects with city or even state dollars alone - and that's considering the need for new fare hikes and taxes for the subway as it is. Funding provided from the Federal level is the only way of seeing those projects done, and we neither need nor deserve that money without a reason like the Olympics. I think those two projects alone would have been worth the hassle (not to mention the pleasure) of being a host city.

As long as we're quoting the NY Times, I'll mention today's article that asks if we are even capable of doing anything big or grand here anymore. As for Assemblyman Silver, I saw just as many quotes from him saying things like "They thought they could do this project without me, and they found out they were wrong" as I did sound bites talking about Lower Manhattan. I think it was egos on both sides - Bloomberg and Silver.

goddfather40 · 06-07-2005, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I lived in LA during the 84 Olympics. I know that was one of the games that was profitable for the city but from what I recall it's normally not profitable for most cities.

Very good point. For one thing most venues in LA were already built years before the '84 games:

- LA Coliseum (track and field, opening and closing ceremonies)
- Pauley Pavilion (gymnastics)
- Dodger Stadium (baseball)

..among others.

Cynthetiq · 06-07-2005, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubertuber

If we ever wanted a 2nd ave subway or a waterfront redevelopment, the Olympics was the only realistic hope of getting them. We won't be able to fund those projects with city or even state dollars alone - and that's considering the need for new fare hikes and taxes for the subway as it is. Funding provided from the Federal level is the only way of seeing those projects done, and we neither need nor deserve that money without a reason like the Olympics. I think those two projects alone would have been worth the hassle (not to mention the pleasure) of being a host city.

As long as we're quoting the NY Times, I'll mention today's article that asks if we are even capable of doing anything big or grand here anymore. As for Assemblyman Silver, I saw just as many quotes from him saying things like "They thought they could do this project without me, and they found out they were wrong" as I did sound bites talking about Lower Manhattan. I think it was egos on both sides - Bloomberg and Silver.

I don't think that it's mutually exclusive.

The redevelopment of the west side has been going on for the past decade starting with the rebuilding and restructuring of the West Side Highway after 72nd Street. The whole west side waterfront was not ready for any kind of development when I moved here in 1991. The east side is slowly following in that direction. Hopefully it won't take as long, but if it does, that's okay it got done.

As far as the subway is concerned that's a completely different ballgame. Personally I don't think that the 2nd ave subway will come to any fruition even with the sale of air rights. The MTA has proven time and time again in the decade that I've been following that they cannot use and allocate money well at all.

Esen · 06-08-2005, 02:52 AM

I am so freaking happy that it got shoved up Bloomberg's Ass.

Most people I have eve talked to did not want the stadium or the Olympics.

as for the stadium.

Why would I want to pay higher taxes to have longer commutes and over crowding. It is by far way to crazy as it is. And you also have to factor in th eincrease of rent in that area and ultimatly everywhere else.

Olympics. I dont care what anyone says; we are not ready to raise the blow me up now Sign to the world. People say dont live in fear well dont live in stupidity.

Bloomberg just plain ole sucks has no clue what the people want.. remember we are talking about a guy here who wants to make nyc's bars close at midnight.

MikeyChalupa · 06-11-2005, 08:13 AM

I'm not a Jets fan, but I would have liked to see the stadium. The biggest problem I had was Cablevision and MSG (The evil Dolans) getting what they wanted. I hold them solely responsible for NY losing the Olympics, just like they are responsible for the Knicks and Rangers sucking ass for the last decade.

-Mikey

Mephisto2 · 06-11-2005, 06:19 PM

Wow...

I started this thread to learn more about New York's Olympic bid. Now I'm totally lost in a mire of municipal politics and local sport fans...

I love TFP

Mr Mephisto

Mondak · 06-12-2005, 06:52 AM

The stadium would have been world class, but as you might suspect, I am against it since the thing was to be billions of dollars out of the pockets of NY and surrounding area taxpayers even though private companies would be getting the revenues from it.

If that kinda of looting was to be the only way to get the Olympics, then I am glad we lost it. (Mondak formerly lived 22.3 miles from Yankee Stadium Parking lot and now lives 3000 miles away).

Cynthetiq · 06-12-2005, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

Wow...

I started this thread to learn more about New York's Olympic bid. Now I'm totally lost in a mire of municipal politics and local sport fans...

I love TFP

Mr Mephisto

It is amazing to find out that there's so many more layers to it than from the simplest of simplest that on it's face a stadium was going to be built over existing train yards. The idea is deeply rooted in Grand Central Terminal's lynchpin moment of creating some of the wealthiest properties in Manhattan by the creating of "air rights" and selling those rights.

Quote:

Grand Central Terminal is born
The plan was expensive. The railroad needed to invest in electrifying its rails, and carve deep into Manhattan's bedrock (workers would ultimately excavate 2.8 million cubic years of earth and rock). The solution to the projected $80 million project budget (roughly $2 billion in today's terms) came from Wilgus as well. Without steam engines, there was no longer a need for an open rail yard. Wilgus proposed that the area from 45th to 49th Streets be paved over and that real estate developers be allowed to erect buildings over the concealed tracks. In exchange for this privilege, developers would pay a premium to the New York Central Railroad for "air rights." Construction in the years immediately after the completion of Grand Central Terminal would include apartment buildings like the Marguery, the Park Lane, and the Montana, and hotels including the Barclay, the Chatham, the Ambassador, the Roosevelt, and finally the Waldorf-Astoria, completed in 1931. (For many years, hydraulic tanks in the basement of Grand Central Terminal supplied power to these buildings.)

What's even more amazing though is the local players are all hard ball players. The Dolans (Cablevision) had a couple spats with Time Warner and they decided to stop carrying YES networks (Yankees baseball) offerings on both sides of the fence from cable affilliates, to owners not renegotiating with affiliates TWC, thus the people who lost out? the fans....

MikeyChalupa · 06-16-2005, 08:25 AM

Plan B... Mets get a new $600M stadium to be built next to Shea to host the Olympics.

Link

Quote:

Planned Mets stadium to salvage New York's 2012 Olympics bid
an Associated Press report 06/13/05

NEW YORK - New York City's bid for the 2012 Olympics suddenly has new life.

In a last-ditch effort to land the games, the city will substitute a planned baseball stadium for the football stadium rejected by state leaders earlier this month, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Sunday.

"New Yorkers aren't quitters," Bloomberg said. "We just don't walk away from our future."

Bloomberg said the new stadium would be built on land owned by the city next to Shea Stadium in Queens and would be used by the New York Mets.

"Our revised bid will propose an Olympic stadium to be built in a facility that would also serve as a new home for our wonderful Mets," Bloomberg said at a City Hall press conference.

The Mets will build the stadium, which will be privately funded, for the 2009 season. The city and state will provide $160 million in infrastructure and $100 million to convert the stadium from 45,000 seats to 80,000 seats if the city wins the Olympics.

The Mets could play home games at Yankee Stadium, in the Bronx, during the Olympics, the mayor said. Mets Chairman and CEO Fred Wilpon joined the mayor at the press conference and welcomed the plan.

"We are delighted to join in today's announcement and help solidify our city's bid for the 2012 Olympic Games," Wilpon said.

The effort to bring the 2012 Summer Games to New York suffered a serious setback on June 6, when state leaders refused to approve $300 million in funding for a proposed $2.2 billion stadium on Manhattan's West Side. That stadium was to have been used primarily as the home of the NFL's New York Jets, but would have been renovated to accommodate the 2012 Olympics opening and closing ceremonies and track and field competition.

State Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, who opposed the West Side project, said Sunday night he has backed the Queens stadium during the entire Olympics debate. He said it will cost the state about $75 million for infrastructure, the city about $100 million and the Mets about $600 million.

"The stadium will be built independent of whether we're awarded the Olympics or not," Silver said. "Hopefully for the '09 season this can be done."

Gov. George Pataki issued a statement praising Bloomberg's efforts after last week's "disappointing" setback.

The city is competing against Paris, London, Madrid and Moscow to host the games, with Paris and London considered the front-runners in one of the highest-profile contests ever.

Bloomberg said Sunday that modifying New York's bid was essential for the city's future and he would continue to fight to win the Summer Games. He also said the security and transportation plans previously submitted in the city's bid still would apply.

While the mayor said the Queens stadium plan would be a "tougher sell" to the IOC than the Manhattan stadium plan was, he also said the new plan still was "wonderful" and would show the IOC that the city was willing to clear all hurdles to win the games.

"Nobody's going to stop us," he said. "This really would be something great for the city."

New York had been considering its options following the rejection of the proposed West Side stadium.

NY2012 bid officials sought clarification from the IOC and received a response Thursday. Citing an "exceptional circumstance," the IOC said New York could modify its plan but must go to the IOC executive board for approval before the July 6 vote in Singapore.

The IOC said the bid file closed Feb. 24, when the IOC evaluation commission completed its visit to New York. The city couldn't provide guarantees for the stadium at the time, and the IOC said New York had until the Singapore session to do so.

The executive board, chaired by IOC president Jacques Rogge, next meets in Singapore July 3-5 before the vote by the full IOC assembly. However, the board members can also make decisions by teleconference.

The executive board has the power to remove a bid city from the race if it determines the candidate doesn't meet the technical requirements.

When the state's Public Authorities Control Board rejected the proposal to spend $300 million in critical state money for the West Side stadium, New York's bid committee began "exploring every option," Deputy Mayor Dan Doctoroff said.

NY2012 leaders had been consulting with the U.S. Olympic Committee, which feared a withdrawal could harm the chances of future American bids.

In a statement, U.S. Olympic committee chairman Peter Ueberroth and chief executive officer Jim Scherr praised the mayor's office and NYC2012 for the new plan.

The New York Mess playing in Yankee Stadium? YECCHH! Well then again, the Yankees played at Shea for 2 years while their ballpark was being renovated. I really do like the thought of NY getting the Olympics, almost as much as I like the idea of the Mets getting stuck in another multi-purpose stadium for another 40 years.

-Mikey

iccky · 06-16-2005, 10:16 AM

The big question for me is why, give that Manhattan has some of the most expensive real estate in the world, would you want to build a football stadium there? Especially when the Jets have a perfectly good stadium in New Jersey that would go empty if they leave. The whole thing is so incredibly wasteful, and as has been pointed out it's the taxpayers that would have paid for most of the waste.

The Yankees are building a new stadium too, but they're paying for the entire thing themselves. Good for them, I say.

On the Olympics, there was an editorial in the New York Times a few days back explaining why New York didn't need the Olympics. I can't find it now, but the gist of it was that the Olympics are valuable to highlight world cities that people might not otherwise think of. The Atlanta Olympics highlighted the success of the New South. Olympics in China and Greece will attempt to show that those nations have joined the modern world. More infamously, Hitler tried to use the Berlin Olympics to show that Germany had reemerged as a great power.

New York doesn't need this boost. Everyone knows New York already as the capital of commerce, culture, in many ways the capital of the world. New York has nothing to gain by hosting the Olympics.

Edit: and for full disclosure, I live in New Jersey, but I'm not a football fan so there's absolutley no conflict of interest involved

.

Cynthetiq · 06-16-2005, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iccky

Edit: and for full disclosure, I live in New Jersey, but I'm not a football fan so there's absolutley no conflict of interest involved

.

Personally don't know why they aren't the NJ Giants and the NJ Jets.

Mephisto2 · 06-16-2005, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iccky

On the Olympics, there was an editorial in the New York Times a few days back explaining why New York didn't need the Olympics. I can't find it now, but the gist of it was that the Olympics are valuable to highlight world cities that people might not otherwise think of. The Atlanta Olympics highlighted the success of the New South. Olympics in China and Greece will attempt to show that those nations have joined the modern world. More infamously, Hitler tried to use the Berlin Olympics to show that Germany had reemerged as a great power.

This sounds like jingoistic nonesense. "New South"? Isn't that term just a little postbellum in nature? Greece and China joining the modern world?!! They're some of the oldest, most influential, most important civilizations in history. Maybe some American hack thinks like this, but the average educated world citizen knows that, thousands of years before the US even existed, both these cultures had profound influences on human development. The only comment I agree with is the one related to Berlin.

Quote:

New York doesn't need this boost. Everyone knows New York already as the capital of commerce, culture, in many ways the capital of the world. New York has nothing to gain by hosting the Olympics.

New York the capital of culture? Capital of the world?!

Whilst I've always wanted to visit NYC, I'm a bit surprised to hear it described as "Capital of the World".

No where needs the Olympics. But most cities like the idea of hosting it. Not everything has to have a mercenary motivation. Perhaps the committe want to host it because of the cultural, social and sporting benefits and kudos it will bring?

Mr Mephisto

06-07-2005, 01:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	Any New Yorkers here? What do you think about the Public Authorities Control Board effectively scuttling your city's bid to host the 2012 Olympics? I've read that, if the stadium had been approved, you would have joined London and Paris as a front-runner. Mr Mephisto

06-07-2005, 01:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jesus Pimp The Original JizzSmacka	I could care less. I'm glad the Jets stadium was not approved. __________________ Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

06-07-2005, 02:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I for one was quite happy to see the current stadium plans scuttled. Things tend to take quite some time to get large gargantuan things like this through all the courts, community boards, etc. yet this one seemed to be on a fast track? How come? Who's interests were being catered to? Between that stadium and the Nets stadium that they want to put in Brooklyn it would effectively displace tens of thousands of people, and if it did not do it directly immediately it would by gentrification and rising housing rates. Personally I felt the idea was a rushed half thought out plan. Sheldon Silver, my assemblyman and one that abstained his vote, I applaud for his concern for the constiuents of the people who live in his district (Lower Manhattan including my neighborhoood Lower Eastside, and WTC.) If it were not for Mr. Silver they would be breaking ground a few blocks from where I live to put up low income housing. The LES has the highest density of low income housing than any other area of Manhattan. Yet there seems to not be any lower income housing being planned out for say, Upper West/East Side... I lived in LA during the 84 Olympics. I know that was one of the games that was profitable for the city but from what I recall it's normally not profitable for most cities. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

06-07-2005, 04:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
spindles Mine is an evil laugh Location: Sydney, Australia	Not only during the event - look at the sporting facilities that were built for the olympics, that did not exist before. You can't just look at the monetary benefits. __________________ who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

06-07-2005, 05:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
ubertuber spudly Location: Ellay	If we ever wanted a 2nd ave subway or a waterfront redevelopment, the Olympics was the only realistic hope of getting them. We won't be able to fund those projects with city or even state dollars alone - and that's considering the need for new fare hikes and taxes for the subway as it is. Funding provided from the Federal level is the only way of seeing those projects done, and we neither need nor deserve that money without a reason like the Olympics. I think those two projects alone would have been worth the hassle (not to mention the pleasure) of being a host city. As long as we're quoting the NY Times, I'll mention today's article that asks if we are even capable of doing anything big or grand here anymore. As for Assemblyman Silver, I saw just as many quotes from him saying things like "They thought they could do this project without me, and they found out they were wrong" as I did sound bites talking about Lower Manhattan. I think it was egos on both sides - Bloomberg and Silver. __________________ Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

06-07-2005, 01:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	Isn't just a contradiction? Mr Mephisto

06-07-2005, 04:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
eribrav Junkie Location: upstate NY	Another NY'er here (albeit out in the country), another one glad to see it go down the tubes. Mr. M, the catering was not to the Olympic Bid Committee. The gentleman who owns the NY Jets football team is a billionare, yet he was going to buy the land from the Metropolitan Transit Authority at a huge discount to its actual worth, then take hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to build his stadium, so he could make more billions. The MTA doesn't even have enough money to run the subways right now, yet they were supposed to line this guy's pockets? There have been some excellent editorials written about this in the NY Times. I'm sorry I don't have an exact reference but you may want to search their archives.

06-08-2005, 02:52 AM	#11 (permalink)
Esen TFPer formaly known as Chauncey Location: North East	I am so freaking happy that it got shoved up Bloomberg's Ass. Most people I have eve talked to did not want the stadium or the Olympics. as for the stadium. Why would I want to pay higher taxes to have longer commutes and over crowding. It is by far way to crazy as it is. And you also have to factor in th eincrease of rent in that area and ultimatly everywhere else. Olympics. I dont care what anyone says; we are not ready to raise the blow me up now Sign to the world. People say dont live in fear well dont live in stupidity. Bloomberg just plain ole sucks has no clue what the people want.. remember we are talking about a guy here who wants to make nyc's bars close at midnight. __________________ ~Esen What is everyone doing in my room?

06-11-2005, 08:13 AM	#12 (permalink)
MikeyChalupa Squid Location: USS George Washington	I'm not a Jets fan, but I would have liked to see the stadium. The biggest problem I had was Cablevision and MSG (The evil Dolans) getting what they wanted. I hold them solely responsible for NY losing the Olympics, just like they are responsible for the Knicks and Rangers sucking ass for the last decade. -Mikey

06-11-2005, 06:19 PM	#13 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	Wow... I started this thread to learn more about New York's Olympic bid. Now I'm totally lost in a mire of municipal politics and local sport fans... I love TFP Mr Mephisto

06-12-2005, 06:52 AM	#14 (permalink)
Mondak Industrialist Location: Southern California	The stadium would have been world class, but as you might suspect, I am against it since the thing was to be billions of dollars out of the pockets of NY and surrounding area taxpayers even though private companies would be getting the revenues from it. If that kinda of looting was to be the only way to get the Olympics, then I am glad we lost it. (Mondak formerly lived 22.3 miles from Yankee Stadium Parking lot and now lives 3000 miles away). __________________ All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed Second, it is violently opposed and Third, it is accepted as self-evident. ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

06-16-2005, 10:16 AM	#17 (permalink)
iccky Psycho Location: Princeton, NJ	The big question for me is why, give that Manhattan has some of the most expensive real estate in the world, would you want to build a football stadium there? Especially when the Jets have a perfectly good stadium in New Jersey that would go empty if they leave. The whole thing is so incredibly wasteful, and as has been pointed out it's the taxpayers that would have paid for most of the waste. The Yankees are building a new stadium too, but they're paying for the entire thing themselves. Good for them, I say. On the Olympics, there was an editorial in the New York Times a few days back explaining why New York didn't need the Olympics. I can't find it now, but the gist of it was that the Olympics are valuable to highlight world cities that people might not otherwise think of. The Atlanta Olympics highlighted the success of the New South. Olympics in China and Greece will attempt to show that those nations have joined the modern world. More infamously, Hitler tried to use the Berlin Olympics to show that Germany had reemerged as a great power. New York doesn't need this boost. Everyone knows New York already as the capital of commerce, culture, in many ways the capital of the world. New York has nothing to gain by hosting the Olympics. Edit: and for full disclosure, I live in New Jersey, but I'm not a football fan so there's absolutley no conflict of interest involved . Last edited by iccky; 06-16-2005 at 10:18 AM.. Reason: full disclosure