Himbo

"Not always, but the vast majority of the time they are. Also the majority of the time even when they are bigger, they are still weaker; and I didn't say harmless, I said they are less likely to inflict serious harm, which is true."

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Women to make up for their smaller size use the element of surprise, (attack a sleeping spouse) a weapon or (frying pan, baseball bat) in some cases boiling water. Men make up 35% of REPORTED domsetic violence incidents in America.

http://www.glennsacks.com/domestic_violence_series.htm

http://www.glennsacks.com/plaintiff_in_suit.htm

http://www.ifeminists.net/introducti...13roberts.html

http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm ->>> my favorite

http://www.ifeminists.net/introducti...09schuett.html


IT IS NEVER RIGHT TO HIT A SPOUSE/BOYFRIEND/GIRLFRIEND/PARTNER

If you dish it out you should expect the person on the receiving end to respond in some way.

Hektore

My story has a point, it's just not relevant to the initial post or your post, I didn't get that far before I hit submit. Congratulations you caught me. It is however relevant to lurkette's post, so please don't just write it off as pointless.

This fits here too along with all the questions about anyone hitting anyone. The difference is in the intent of the hit. Yes I'm an ends may justify the means person. Back to the original post, at this point you feel your friend did something terribly wrong by hitting his girlfriend and want to right this wrong. It was immediately suggested the best way to get through to him is to take him out back and beat him senseless. The huge discussion going on is whether or not this is a good reaction or should I be able to hit so and so under such and such circumstances.

The answer to that boils down to how you view violence as a means. Personally I firmly believe violence or the threat of violence works in most cases to get your point across. Whether or not your intent justifies the use of violence is entirely based on your own morals which are in turn entirely subjective, carved from your life experience. So it's at the individuals call based on the situation. I gave an original example of when I thought it may be ok for a man to hit a woman, later an example of when it would not be ok for a man to hit a woman(and what I feel is not an inappropriate response). I attempted to explain my reasoning for both(but I often do not articulate well so the reasoning may be lost) to the ends of showing intent.

If the intent is to cause harm with violence then there is a problem, if the intent is education then it depends on the situation (at least for me). So, finally in your latest question, if the parent is just trying to hurt the kid in retaliation then no it's not ok. If the kid gets his butt smacked with a good talking to about why its wrong to hit your parents then that would be ok. You(not you as in sixate, but you as in any person at all) dare disagree and say hitting your kids is always wrong, what I know is I believe it worked for me(I think I turned out ok)

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The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

pattycakes

When my girlfriend smacks me, i smack her back just as hard. i dont expect to take her shit just as she shouldent expect to take mine

you get what you give

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skier

Studies have shown that we hit harder that we get ie. What you think as the force she hits you with is actually less on a factor of two or three times. When you smack her back "just as hard" you're actually hitting her harder than she hit you.

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"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

Mbwuto

We seem to have a chasm filled with false dilemmas and misunderstandings here.

1. Very few people fault anyone for stopping a guy from smacking a girl around in a parking lot. In fact, I'll call that admirable. That's assault. It's happening you can stop it. But if the only reason you stop it is because it's a girl, well you're a dick. No one is fond of getting beaten.

2. The violence that is being decried is pre-meditated. For example, girl shows up to school with a black eye, says her boyfriend did it. Posse rounded up and boyfriend is beaten up. This creates two problems. The first being vigilante justice. We have a court system and cops to take care of this sort of thing.

The second problem is that the posse is uninformed and highly biased. What if she did hit first? Pulled a knife? She won't tell you that if she wants his ass kicked. You just play right into her estrogen laden tentacles. It won't stop any situation in this case. It might just escalate it.

__________________
- people who have fallen into solitary, half-mad grooves of life and given up trying to be normal or decent.

George Orwell

analog

That's what I'd do. Of course, more often than not, simple take-downs will suffice, unless the guy is way bigger than me, and requires little to no physical harm- just being detained or put on the ground. If there needs to be an ass-kicking, I will hand one out.

And for those who preach anti-violence to me, I say this: Shame on you for being the type to stand there and watch while the helpless are beaten further, or while the assailant gets away. Shame on you for being too much of a pussy to do something or, if you're incapable, too much of a complete peace-loving retard for telling me i'm a "violent person" because I'll step up for the safety and security of another human being.

Irishsean, I applaud you.

On-topic: Doesn't seem like he really "hit" her. If he had, he'd likely not have been so candid about it. However, if it were the case, i'd have given him a good beating and then seen about getting him help for his violence against his girl.

DJ Happy

Would you 'hand out an ass-kicking' if a woman is beating a 6 foot plus man with a crowbar while he is lying on the ground?

KinkyKiwi

good point, about the mom/gf/you thing...i guess is a woman attacked me i would want my SO to stop her in anyway..and if he couldnt restrain her then i would want him to do whatever he had to.

my whole point was just that...he didnt have anymarks..and and she had a black eye...thats wrong to me..why didnt he restrain her, leave or just liek push her away? just personally i think that men shouldnt hit women ..besides the fact that i was raised to think that thats wrong ..guy ARE more likely to hit harder..and girls are more likely to have real damage done. we tend to be more fragile. a slap probably isnt going to be that hard ... and i've never had a bruise from being slapped.

and just to clarify i dont think domestic abuse should happen on EITHER end of the gender spectrum.

i really do think sometimes violence works (as either intervention or to knock some sense into someone) and i applaud you irishsean,analog,hektore,xepherys and seaver

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Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
Play with each other. Play with yourselves. Just don't play with the squirrels, they bite.

paulskinback

This seems to have become a debate over the size of men and women and how hard we hit, and administering beatings on people for doing it...

Please understand that, at the age of 24 i'd like to believe that i've grown out of the violence phase that I had when i was at school... sure I hit a few people when i was younger, and took a few beating myself - I look at it as a life experience, and it taught me that if i need to stick up for myself, I know what to do, and also know my limitations...

However, I would NEVER try to beat up a friend who i've know since i was 7 yrs old even in this situation, and added to that the fact that he could probably lay me out (i'm 6' 2" but not built like a brick shit house)- I don't want the pain and bruising afterwards and have to explain it to my work colleagues.

It seems that some people here are just trying to show their machismo which no-one actually gives a damn about

__________________
'Everything that can be invented has been invented.- - 1899, Charles Duell, U.S. Office of Patents.

'There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.' - Ken Olson, 1977, Digital Equipment Corporation

tres

Some have already said.....

with the execption of VERY VERY few circumstances... ie(she is attempting to kill you, or you feel your life is truly in danger) there is absolutly NO REASON WHATSOEVER to strike a woman. If my woman were to come after me... I might give her a nice bear hug to restrain her, but never strike her back..( I can't tell you I havent wanted to though)

Violance or not.. I would stand up for any women being wrongly abused. I watched my mother being physically abused by her ex-boyfriend. This stuff definetly doesent sit well with me. If a man came up to my girl, or I whitnessed a man striking a woman, I would stand up for her in a heart beat.

If a girl were to attack me in public, I would simply have my SO take care of it, and I'm sure I would not have to get to the point of having to ask.

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"Its better to be hated for who you are, then loved for what your not" --Van Zant

"Tell me and I forget. Show me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."

Seaver

It's been posted MANY times, almost everyone will intervene on behalf of the man when the woman has a weapon.

RAGEAngel9

And you just said intervene, while in the reverse situation half the posters are talking about ass kickings.

If she's using the crow bar do you simply disarm her? Or do you "teach her a lesson" as seems to be a popular response?


/Half playing devil's advocate

DJ Happy

This is exactly my point. There seems to be a mind-set here that a man beating a woman is doing so wrongfully and must be taught a lesson, whereas a woman beating a man must just be restrained before she goes too far.

The random displays of internet machismo that we've seen on this thread don't particularly impress me. By 'handing out an ass-kicking' to anyone you are effectively judging and sentencing someone for something that you have absolutely no prior knowledge of whatsoever, which (to quote my parents) is neither big nor clever.

Seaver

Look I'm finished with this. I've said my side, and I'm sick of being accused of being a violent person, or of waving my penis around in hopes of being seen as a manly man. That's not true, I'm sick of the veiled attacks. I'm done.

mikec

to quote Chris Rock:

"I would never hit a woman. I would never, ever EVER hit a woman."





"But I'll shake the shit outta her.........what's the matter with you girl, are you crazy? You crazy girl!?"

I've been in a couple relationships with women who made things violent, and as much as I might've wanted to knock 'em out, all I ever did was restrain them - if they're throwing punches or just going cuckoo, give 'em a bear hug, take 'em down to the floor until they chill the fuck out, then get the hell outta there.

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Until the 20th century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see, and hear. Since the initial publication of the charted electromagnetic spectrum, humans have learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear is less than one millionth of reality

KinkyKiwi

^ see he gets it

__________________
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
Play with each other. Play with yourselves. Just don't play with the squirrels, they bite.

streak_56

Damn straight.... no excuse for it.

F-18_Driver

As I said, I have knowledge of an occasion in which the cops laughed at the guy for calling them.

Wasn't it Willravel, who said in another thread, that his wife (a cop) reported that cops wait until people quit fighting to do anything?

Strange Famous

If I knew of a person who had hit a girl, I personally wouldnt try and jump him and give him a punishment beating... Im not a violent person. But if I was to witness a girl getting hit by a guy, as it actually happened, I would have no real problem with kicking the shit out of him, and it wouldnt necessarily have to be a fair fight... he might be bigger than me, in which case I'd just have to cheap shot and make sure the first shot was hard enough that he wont be fighting back.

real men dont hit girls. If a girl hits you, you dont hit back. if she attacks you very aggresively, you are allowed to use as much force as you need to get away, and no more. And maybe Im a sexist for saying this, but Ive never really felt threatened by a woman, in terms of physical violence, and I really couldnt imagine any situation where I would.

As far as Im concerned, any guy prepared to tee off on a girl is fair game, and will be treated accordingly

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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Hektore

Holy excellent question Batman!

Time for another moral gut check I guess. For me against most women, I would probably just disarm her, but I would go to town on the guy...Why? Basically for me it boils down to this(Call it machismo if you want, it isn't): Of all the guys I am friends with I hit them 5 or 6 times as hard as I can various places, they lay there for a while, get up dust themselves off, hurt for a few days, maybe bleed a bit but aren't that much worse off for it. I do the same thing to about any of the girls I am friends with; I send them to the hospital for a day or two, possibly longer.

So yeah, I am more willing to hit a guy than a girl, but I consider myself on more equal footing with guys in a fistfight. I think that is where the difference lies. In a fight I try to teach the guy a lesson he is more likely to be able to defend himself. Just because I start a fight with a guy getting physical with a girl doesn't mean I'm going to win that fight, even if it is the right thing to do. It's not the same with a girl, I have yet to meet a girl that could possibly beat up both her boyfriend and myself. That is why I say I would only disarm her. Once the crowbar is gone, it's(to me) no longer a fair fight. *shrug* Maybe I have some growing up to do, but this is what I think is right, at least for now.

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The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

CandleInTheDark

Anyone with a weapon is going to mess you up, male or female, if your focus is disarmament.

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Where there is doubt there is freedom.

Biscuit Buns

Disarm, bear hug, etc. I expect a man to respect my own being and I will grant him the same respect for his. If I were to ever hit a man, I would expect the worst in return just to prepare for my own safety. I'm a woman who doesn't believe in men hitting women, but I also don't believe in women hitting men. Violence as a last resort such as when your life is in question.

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A hard man is good to find. ~Mae West

Scorps

Why give him a hug??

I have beat the shit out of people I though where friends for hitting there GF....but I don;t hug them I leave them laying there to think about wat they have done!

Irishsean

If hes a friend, you've seen some type of worth in them as a person. 1 mistake can be dealt with, counseling, and what not. If it happens again, thats when you leave them lying in the street.

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There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

pinkie

Exactly.................

rockogre

When I was in grade school, that's when the dinaosaurs ruled the earth for some of you, a girl at school beat me up almost daily. I didn't defend myself because "you don't hit women".

One day my dad took me aside and added a little to that. He told me that you don't hit a lady, as soon as a women hits you she is no longer a lady and you do what you need to do. Ended my problem and gave me a wider view of how life worked.

Personally I couldn't have a friend that would hit a woman or a child just because he could get a way with it. Those kind of people are bottom of the gene pool.

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Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

raeanna74

As a teacher my rule was "Nobody hits."

Anyone hit someone else - they got severely punished.

As an adult - My brother (19 yr old) was punching my husband. I (the woman) intervened. My neighbor's boyfriend was beating her up. I did what I could. It doesn't matter to me who does what. Violence must needs be stopped with all the force necessary. As for ass kicking. I've never gone beyond the necessary steps to halt the violence until authorities arrived. That may partly because I'm not a big woman and taking things any farther then necessary is not wise on my part but it should be the MO for anyone.

Though it's deplorable the state of our justice system I don't think it wise to take justice into my own hands in most cases.

edit: And don't say I stopped my brother because I believed as a woman I wouldn't get hit. I have been hit on more than one occasion.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Willravel

My wife isn't a cop, but she knows martial arts. I don't think I said it, but thanks for mentioning me!

cierah

I just wanna jump in here and say that this is exactly the reason that I would never date a guy that is bigger than me. Women and men fight different - they both fight - they both are dangerous in their own right but they fight DIFFERENT. Men will punch/kick ect. while women are more likely to throw things, slap ect. And in an adrendiline induced fight size really does not matter that much. Never underestimate the power of adrendiline.

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"You can close your eyes to reality but not to memories" -Stainslaw J. Lec

Matadon

Speaking as a fairly built guy, I take a lot of offense at this.

So, because I have muscles, and like boxing and judo, I am 'undatable' because you can't beat me up? I mean, if that's your preference, whatever floats your boat, but don't think that every guy bigger than a twig is some murdering psychopath who is going to beat you senseless at the drop of a hat. In fact, my being the combative sort has saved at least one of my girlfriends from being raped by a drunk fratboy who thought he was a better fighter than I am.

Personally, I don't like abuse. On either side of the equation. Play-fighting is one thing, but actually beating up your partner is something else completely. And, to be completely frank, while I'm honestly not a violent person, when required I will defend myself with all necessary force against an aggressor, regardless of gender.

raeanna74

[QUOTE=Matadon]Speaking as a fairly built guy, I take a lot of offense at this.

So, because I have muscles, and like boxing and judo, I am 'undatable' because you can't beat me up? I mean, if that's your preference, whatever floats your boat, but don't think that every guy bigger than a twig is some murdering psychopath who is going to beat you senseless at the drop of a hat. QUOTE]

True. Size is not what matters in the least. As a girl I'm pleased to have learned self defense and size doesn't intimidate me as much. What matters in any relationship is how people respect each other. If the guy doesn't respect you, get out. If the girl doesn't respect you, get out. A lack of respect is where the violence begins. People don't need to resort to violence when they respect others and are willing to restrain themselves and talk things out or walk away until they've cooled down. Respect matters, size doesn't.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

cierah

Short answer = yes.
long answer = It has to at least be a fair fight. But also note that there are not a lot of guys that are bigger than me. I am 5'9 and 170 ish pounds. I can hold my own fairly decently. I would just rather not put myself in those sorts of situations. Situations being places in which I can not defend myself.

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"You can close your eyes to reality but not to memories" -Stainslaw J. Lec

animosity

I sometimes wonder why it is okay for a woman to hit a man but not the other way around. Women are not weak. Most of them can handle themselves. I have never laid a hand on a woman in my life, but then again it is very rare that I lay a hand on anyone in a manner in which is hurtful. If a girl were to hit me that would be the end of it. She would stop or I would never see her again. A girlfriend of mine once slapped me. I simply looked at her and said, "Do not do that again. EVER." and for the remaining year or so of our relationship she never once hit me again. Violence is never the answer to an arguement. I love a good friendly fight with a friend, but I never would fight out of rage. All conficts can and should be worked out through calm, mature conversations.

I would suggest you tell your friend to get out of the relationship right now.