Betting on the Next Pope *OR* I've got 5 down on Cardinal Tettamanzi
 

Well, I'm not surprised, but I am highly amused.

I've not kept up on papal politics as of late, but if they have a side line to bet for a conservative or a liberal, I know I would vote conservative.

Of course, I would also guess that the payout for a conservative bet sucks :)

---------------------------------------

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/050404/w040428.html

Italian, Nigerian tied as Irish bookmakers' favourite to become next pope
12:54 PM EDT Apr 04
DUBLIN, Ireland (AP) - An Italian and a Nigerian cardinal are tied as Irish bookmakers' favourites to succeed Pope John Paul.

More than 5,000 people have placed bets on who will be the next pope with Paddy Power PLC, Ireland's largest bookmaking chain.

The early favourites are Dionigi Tettamanzi of Italy and Francis Arinze of Nigeria, both listed on 11-to-4 odds. That means a winning $4 US bet would pay out $15.

Betting resumed Monday in shops and on the Internet on the question, "Who will be the next Pope?" The firm had suspended betting for one day on Sunday in a gesture of respect to John Paul, 84, who died Saturday night.

The biggest bet so far, $1,300 US, has been on Tettamanzi. The company said most bets are for much smaller amounts.

Oscar Andres Rodriguez Maradiaga of Honduras is third with 9-to-2 odds, while Joseph Ratzinger of Germany and Claudio Hummes of Brazil both follow with odds of 7 to 1.

Jaime Lucas Ortega y Alamino of Cuba, Ennio Antonelli of Italy and Christoph Schoenborn of Austria come next, all on odds of 14 to 1. Giovanni Battista Re of Italy stood alone at 16 to 1, while three others - Dario Castrillon Hoyos of Colombia, and Crescenzio Sepe and Giacomo Biffi, both of Italy - merited 18 to 1.

Interesting... I remember reading a few years back that Dionigi Tettamanzi was the hand picked, by JP II as the next pope. Age seems to be working against the guy though, he's over 70.

There's been a lot of talk about the next pope being a Latin American...

time will tell I suppose -- I just know it won't be an American -- (reason I heard this morning, is that the US holds too much power in the world already )

My money is on Francis Arinze.

Mostly because he would be an interesting pope.

1. He's black(if the Italians disliked a Polish pope...)
2. Unfortunately he's very, very conservative on church doctrine.

However, perhaps an African pope would put the current AIDs situation into a more public light. The church could do a lot of good in Africa if they would relax their stance on contraception. Francis Arinze, conservative as he may be, will be the public face of African religion and culture.

Well, they have that whole "fat pope comes after a skinny pope," so since JP II was conservative, then the next one is supposed to be liberal...and black...and a woman...and really young...

Maya Keyes?

What's the line on Cardinal Bernard Law?

That would be my guess, though I think that his age works for him, rather than against him. Since popes rule for life, I see the college of cardinals electing an older pope to limit his reign.

You can find the lines (as well as bet on the Michael Jackson Trial and the American Idol winner) on tradesports.com

There's supposedly a list of future popes in the Vatican library that was written by a saint in the middle ages. It supposedly lists JPII as the third-to-last pope, and that's why he did everything he could to hold out for so long, because some believe that after the last pope on the list dies, the church dies, or disappears, or is squished by an angry antichrist, or something.

It's all superstitious paranoia based on a document whose existance is questionable at best, but faith and superstition can cross over at times. You neven know what will influence a secret vote.

^^^that's supposedly the biggest load of bollocks I've read this week (but we're only tuesday, so... :D )

I got $5 down on Godfried Danneels. Gotta stick up for a fellow belgian, ya know :)

But yeah, the pattern does seem to be liberal --> conservative, and jovial --> recluse... Guess they do it to keep things interesting?

As far as somebody being handpicked by the previous pope... I don't see it happening. Isn't this situation one of the few occasions that the Cury can steer the direction of the catholic church? I don't know how much weight JP II 's handpicking will hold.

I would like to see Francis Arinze. I think it would be interesting to see a black pope. There's never been one before. He is certainly qualified. That and I want to see South Boston explode.

Seeing as the majority of the College of Cardinals were picked by JPII, it's likely that they'll pick a candidate he himself would have chosen, if only by coincidence.

I'd be all about the black pope, except for the part where he's supposed to be super-conservative... Imagine the good a more liberal (read: thinks birth control can help 3rd world countries and that gay people are not inherently evil) pope could do!!!!
JPII did a lot politically against dictatorship-type places, right? So the next one can help social injustices! :)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the next Pope is an old, white guy.

A black Pope? Because when I think "strikingly progessive" I think Catholic Church.

I mean, John Paul II was the first non-Italian to hold the office, right? I'd be surprised if the new Pope chosen is a "liberal." I'd be very surprised if he's non-European. I think I'd drop dead from shock if they choose a black or hispanic guy.

I imagine it's going to be Tettamanzi. He's relatively old, he's Italian, and he's white. Not to mention he's the hand picked successor and like onesnowyowl pointed out, the majority of the College was appointed by John Paul II. It's not that far a leap in logic to presume that they would want to fulfill John Paul's wishes coincidence or not.

Actually there's been an African pope before. Three of em. Now I don't know for sure, but rudimentary googlage indicated Pope Miltiades was a black man. I really don't see why the shock for a non white pope. Europe's catholicism is waning while South America's is booming.

According to Wikipedia, Pope John Paul II was "the first non-Italian pope in 455 years and the first ever of Slavic origin." So, you are correct. and Miltiades was pope in 311 (give or take a couple). So it's been done, but it's been awhile. :p

How about a guy with the last name "Ourri"
Think about it Pope Ourri.....

I would bet on Ratzenberger. Old and conservative, a catholics wet dream.
Named Pope Adolf I. or so....

just kidding ;)

Were you joking?

Or did you not know that a newly elected Pope takes a new name?

John Paul II's given name was Karol Wojtyla (sp?).

Pretty sure he was just being punny

I would look to Francis Cardinal Arinze. Back when the Pope was suppose to die in the mid-nineties, he was considered a front runner. He's also been the head of a couple important Congregations in Rome in recent years. He too was groomed by JPII. I think it would be fitting to have the "third world" be the one's to bring the faith back to the Europeans who had sent out missionaries to the "third world" in years past.

My mistake. I was reading two articles at CBSNews.com. One mentioned he was the first non-Italian Pope, the other clarified to say "since the 15th century."

I should have come back to fix my post....mea culpa. :)

I can't find anything to suggest they were black. African, yes, but not black.

Pope St. Victor I, was from Africa, but that doesn't mean anything in and of itself. In my rudimentary search, I found only one website willing to say he was the first black Pope. Unfortunately it was surrounded by a bunch of "conspiracy of the white man" stuff, so, I took it with a grain of salt.

Pope St. Gelasius I's birth is confusing as hell. I can't tell if he was born in Africa to Roman parents or born in Rome to African parents. I can't find anything that settles the question definitively.

Pope St. Militiades (or Melchiades) was an African native, but again, there are a lot of non-black Africans out there. Everyone seems to agree he was born of African parents and born in Rome.

There seems to be no official pictures of any of these guys, but I did find a couple of rudimentary drawings and engravings that a few souls put up. Most of them are so dirty and dilapidated it makes it difficult to figure out what color anybody is.

If somebody else can find anything definitive about this, by all means post away. I know I'm going to be doing a lot of looking later.


Sidenote: South America's Catholicism may be growing, but "The Church" is in Rome along with the Papal provenance. I seriously doubt a South American Pope is going to sit on "The seat" anytime soon. I mean, I've talked to a lot of older Catholics who are still upset they elected John Paul II because he was Polish.

http://www.rcan.org/bca/bcasaints.htm. granted there's no credit or date for the picture of Miltiades, but that definitly seems to imply that the Father was a Brother.

Will the new Pope take the name "John Paul III" or something else? What's the protocol or procedure?

The Pope picks a name, usually that of a previous pope he admired.

Well, I'll be damned. :thumbsup:

Well, then why is everyone talking about the possibility of the first black Pope? It seems pretty clear from that drawing that Miltiades was black. *shakes head

And my how times change. Miltiades managed to make the Papacy and was black, while above him St. Martin DePorres, born several hundred years later, "...friend to Spanish, Indians, Negroes and all people" wasn't even ordained as a priest due to his race.

Well, I get the feeling that a lot of people wish he was black, but no one is completely sure. Of course when Miltiades was ordained the Europeans hadn't quite settled into their role as Christians. Just a few years before Emperor Diocletian had persecuted Christians, though a decade after that Constantine embraces Christianity. I think they were too busy trying to stay together to develop racist issues within the church. (To be fair I knew none of this off the top of my head).

I like to think Miltiades was black, but the more I think the less sure I am. I do know that Africa had been exposed to Christianity by that time, mostly in the north of course, by the Meditteranean.

I know nothing about these issues...I would suggest if someone's willing and has the knowledge, that we make a little who's who on pope candidates, then a poll so we can vote for them?

A black pope would be cool...sounds sooo unlikely though, even in this day and age.

Edit: ok, throwing out some info on Papal candidates (damn, they're all old, they should choose someone a little younger don't you think?):

Cardinal Francis Arinze, a Vatican-based Nigerian.
Arinze, 72, converted to Roman Catholicism as a child and shares some of John Paul's conservative views on contraception and family issues. But he brings a unique element: representing a nation shared between Muslims and Christians at the time when interfaith relations assume growing urgency. If elected, he would be the first black pope of modern times.

Brazilian Cardinal Claudio Hummes.
Hummes, 70, is archbishop of Sao Paolo, Brazil, and urges more attention to fighting poverty and the effects of a globalized economies. His supporters note that Brazil's role as a Latin American political and economic heavyweight could help the Vatican counter the popularity of emerging evangelical churches in the region.

Cardinal Oscar Andres Rodriguez Maradiaga of Honduras, the 62-year-old archbishop of Tegucigalpa, is also mentioned as a possible candidate. But he could be too much of a break for Vatican conservatives. He has studied clinical psychology and has a dynamic, outspoken style.

Among Italians, Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi, the archbishop of Milan, is a moderate with natural pastoral abilities and an easy style that appeals to the young. But Tettamanzi, 71, is not considered widely traveled and some critics believe he could impose too strong an Italian outlook.

Cardinal Angelo Scola of Venice, 63, who is relatively young and brings a cosmopolitan flair from his city, a historic cultural crossroads

Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, the 69-year-old archbishop of Vienna, Austria, who is multilingual and has diplomatic flair

Belgian Cardinal Godfried Danneels, 71, who is well known in political and diplomatic circles.

Europe has the biggest bloc with 58 papal electors — cardinals under 80 years old. Italy alone has 20.

Latin America has 21 and Africa brings 11. The United States also has 11 cardinals and could sway the voting if they remain united.

It seems that he wasn't actually black, although Wikipedia (my new source for all things) says that not much is known about his personal history. Sooooo, who knows?
I did a search on Google for "black pope" and got all sorts of wierd satanic pope things...

I did the same thing. Bunch of goofy guys pretending to be edgy.

I actually heard Cardinal Francis Arinze speak at World Youth Day in Toronto. He was about the 4th cardinal we heard speak that week and he was amazing. He did a very good job of actually talking to the teenagers that were there like they were normal human beings....not like many adults do. Afterwards he hung around and answered questions, shook hands and just generally made himself available. None of the other cardinals I heard did anything like it. My Vote is for Arinze....although since I have no vote it doesn't matter!

Fox news reports that a new pope has been elected. No word of who it is yet.

It's Joseph Ratzinger, as reported by CBC news.

It's Cardinal Ratzinger, he's chosen the name Benedict XVI. Interesting choice, he's almost 80 years old, and not an Italian.

HA! I won! :lol:

So Ratzinger got it, eh?

I am surprised at that.

I am not surprised that it's an ultra conservative however.

Ratzinger might even be more conservative than JP2.

Just FYI, the office Ratzinger has headed up for the past several years, The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has been around for a long time. In fact, it has had another name, The Inquisition. In some ways, it hasn't changed.

Benedict XVI... it will take getting used to...

I'm not Catholic... but I'm still depressed that a opportunity for leadership to moderation and true love for all people has been squashed.
I would bet that the next few years will bring more Inquisition-like processes to the fore, hm? :eek:

The message that this decision is sending me is that the Catholic world is ready to do this in another 10 years. For all we know it could even be sooner depending on his current health. As for his papal abilities I pulled this from a cnn.com article: and Who knows where this old dude will lead 2/10 of the world's population, but hopefully it isn't toward a more explicit fundamentalism.

Your notion of "moderation" happens to stand in direct conflict with 2000 years of tradition. It really is ridiculous that people are so up in arms over a "conservative" pope, as if they should some how be swayed by the selfish sexual revolutions of the last 30 years.

hell, this guy was a former hitler youth. How moderate do you think this guy can be?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...572667,00.html

THE wartime past of a leading German contender to succeed John Paul II may return to haunt him as cardinals begin voting in the Sistine Chapel tomorrow to choose a new leader for 1 billion Catholics.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, whose strong defence of Catholic orthodoxy has earned him a variety of sobriquets — including “the enforcer”, “the panzer cardinal” and “God’s rottweiler” — is expected to poll around 40 votes in the first ballot as conservatives rally behind him.

Although far short of the requisite two-thirds majority of the 115 votes, this would almost certainly give Ratzinger, 78 yesterday, an early lead in the voting. Liberals have yet to settle on a rival candidate who could come close to his tally.

Unknown to many members of the church, however, Ratzinger’s past includes brief membership of the Hitler Youth movement and wartime service with a German army anti- aircraft unit.

Although there is no suggestion that he was involved in any atrocities, his service may be contrasted by opponents with the attitude of John Paul II, who took part in anti-Nazi theatre performances in his native Poland and in 1986 became the first pope to visit Rome’s synagogue.

“John Paul was hugely appreciated for what he did for and with the Jewish people,” said Lord Janner, head of the Holocaust Education Trust, who is due to attend ceremonies today to mark the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.

“If they were to appoint someone who was on the other side in the war, he would start at a disadvantage, although it wouldn’t mean in the long run he wouldn’t be equally understanding of the concerns of the Jewish world.”

The son of a rural Bavarian police officer, Ratzinger was six when Hitler came to power in 1933. His father, also called Joseph, was an anti-Nazi whose attempts to rein in Hitler’s Brown Shirts forced the family to move home several times.

In 1937 Ratzinger’s father retired and the family moved to Traunstein, a staunchly Catholic town in Bavaria close to the Führer’s mountain retreat in Berchtesgaden. He joined the Hitler Youth aged 14, shortly after membership was made compulsory in 1941.

He quickly won a dispensation on account of his training at a seminary. “Ratzinger was only briefly a member of the Hitler Youth and not an enthusiastic one,” concluded John Allen, his biographer.

Two years later Ratzinger was enrolled in an anti-aircraft unit that protected a BMW factory making aircraft engines. The workforce included slaves from Dachau concentration camp.

Ratzinger has insisted he never took part in combat or fired a shot — adding that his gun was not even loaded — because of a badly infected finger. He was sent to Hungary, where he set up tank traps and saw Jews being herded to death camps. He deserted in April 1944 and spent a few weeks in a prisoner of war camp.

He has since said that although he was opposed to the Nazi regime, any open resistance would have been futile — comments echoed this weekend by his elder brother Georg, a retired priest ordained along with the cardinal in 1951.

“Resistance was truly impossible,” Georg Ratzinger said. “Before we were conscripted, one of our teachers said we should fight and become heroic Nazis and another told us not to worry as only one soldier in a thousand was killed. But neither of us ever used a rifle against the enemy.”

Some locals in Traunstein, like Elizabeth Lohner, 84, whose brother-in-law was sent to Dachau as a conscientious objector, dismiss such suggestions. “It was possible to resist, and those people set an example for others,” she said. “The Ratzingers were young and had made a different choice.”

My main surprise is that he is kind of old. I'm also a little disappointed that a "minority" wasn't picked but that's ok. In theory it shouldn't matter cause we're all G*od's children. Let's give him a chance.

Tribes in Africa have been practicing female genital mutilation for thousands of years, is it wrong that we go in there with our ideas of women's rights and stop their ancient practice?

Sure it's hyperbole, but just because something is thousands of years old doesn't mean it is right:

You're right a segment of the population devised a revolution of norms 30 years ago, obviously they are right over some distant cold evil archaic church, my bad.

By the way your bottom quote there is played out and is as easily applicable to your position, if not more so then mine.

Most people think that they picked someone older on purpose, the reason being to have a "transitional" pope for the church to catch a breather instead of another 20+ year pontiff.