we, as humans
 

here is a thought i had last night...

we, as humans, are 'supposdely ' the smarts creatures on this planet. if that is the case, why is it that the only thing we are good at is killing each other? wouldnt you think that being the smartest creatures on this planet we would be able to be better at something nay anything else other than killing each other...

well thats my thoughts... discuss..

I haven't killed anybody yet- does that make me bad at being a human?

One might also think we'd be better at grammar and spelling, too (forgive me if you're one of those dyslexic typers). thats my thoughts...

LOL...

It's human nature. Self preservation and the need to procreate is what drives us. That's why we have weapons that can wipe out entire cities and porn on demand. If we could some how get rid of the instinct that's apparently hard coded into each one of us, we would probably be living much more utopian lives.

We are also very good at ignoring the positive and emphasizing the negative when it suits our needs.

Humans are both destructive and constructive creatures, we need both to thrive. We are not the only creature on earth that kills it's own kind, but we are the only ones smart enought to create ways of doing it quicker and better than any other being. We are also smart enough to realize if we use these methods in any larger scale everything goes straight to hell.

If the only thing we are good at doing is killing one another, then there would be no humans.

war has been the single most influential factor in our species evolution, I would say killing each other has been a necessary evil.

The idea that the only thing humans are good at is killing each other is impressively misguided. I really don't know where to begin.

Perhaps you are talking about war or violent crime? I would guess that the numbers of deaths caused by other human beings has gone dramatically down in relation to proportional global populations in the past several hundred years. In other words, comparatively speaking, now is good/better than before. So celebrate.

I'm damned good at killing ants, and my cats are highly skilled at killing moths. In Alabama, I've noticed a lot of people who are very effective at killing deer, turkeys, and fish, too.

The leather in my shoes, belt, and wallet, and the chicken still digesting in my tummy suggest that at least some of us are quite skilled at killing cows and chickens, as well. Since my chicken was cooked with pineapple, red peppers, and brown sugar, this seems to suggest that nobody can slaughter a plant quite like humans, either.

On the whole, I'd say that humans are at the tip top when it comes to killing pretty much anything we want to. But I still don't trust my cats.

I would argue it actually comes down to economics. I think war is just a result of a stuggle of scarce resources. It is the want, need, and ability to take resources that cause war.

Then again, I am an econ major, so I tend to see things in that light.

Humans , as individuals, are relatively benign creatures.....and most have little skill in the art of murder. It would seem the change in Human "Nature" takes place in Socialization/Civilization, and the inevitable growth of needed control that comes with it.

And this could be the heart of it all. The very nature of "civilization and society" is that they are self-organizing behaviors, and humans are instinctively self-organizing creatures. Part of what we do so well is the act of ignoring other basic needs and instincts in favor of the overall good that comes from self-organizing.

But "ignoring" does not equal "eradicating." And thank God for small favors. If we eliminated those anti-social behaviors that sometimes threaten society, mankind would stagnate and become extinct rather quickly. Nature has always taught us that stirring the pot is necessary for survival.

Sometimes murder makes me sad, and sometimes I'm able to look away without giving it a second thought. Quite literally, it is the nature of the beast.

I think there are a lot of creatures that are ''self organizing'', look at animals storing or fattening up for winters, or creating dens. The difference may be in our ability to reason, greedand the fact that we are the only species that uses sex as a ''weapon'' or control, rather than only for pleasure or reproduction.

i see what all you guys are saying and you all have different points but maybe you should know the reasoning/throught process that led to this idea of mine.

it started when our all unknowledgeable leader john 'lil johnny' howard decided to send another couple of hundred troops over to iraq after promising not to during the last election. so anyway i was stewing over this some and then i started thinking about leukemia (i do a fund raising thing for it each year about this time) and while thinking about this i wondered why we couldnt cure this disease and many others.

one of the reasonings that we couldnt is because so much money is going into pointless trivial exercises like wars and conquests and killing other human beings instead of trying to save many 10s of thousands of lives from many diseases, which if the researchers and scientists had the sought of money spent on wars etc could find cures and preventions for a lot sooner.

so anyway, this line of thinking lead to move above statement in the opening post that we, as humans in a socialization/civilization (to use tecoyah's words) are only good a killing each other.


ok i know all this may be a bit confusing (sorry it is hard to get the thought process down on paper) but i thought id share and see what you guys had to say.

War can be a result of scarce resources but also there are holy wars and civil wars, It's the technological advances that come from warfare that have been our biggest advantage.

OF COURSE, there are other creatures that self-organize. Ants and bees are the first things that might pop into someone's mind. And just like humans, ants and bees are pretty good at attacking their momentary rivals.

Also, my male cat asserts his dominance over our two female cats daily, thereby using sex as control. All of them are neutered and no actual sex takes place (therefore, no pleasure or reproduction), but even fixed male cats still have an instinct to whip the ladies in line, and that goes back to self-organizing behavior.

I would just like to add a couple of things....
Humans (to my knowledge) are the only animals to regularly drink another animals milk :hmm: (what's up with that??)

I believe that, although retsuki03 point about fighting over resources may be true to a small extent, the ultimate fight seems to origininate from 2 motives: Power and God. Those who have no power want it: those that have power impose it: and of course everyone knows that some people believe that their own religious beliefs are the only true beliefs:crazy: :crazy: and that everything else is blasphemy or satan and must be eliminated
just my 2 cents
kevin

Humans are good at surviving and reproducing. We're also pretty good at removing most obstacles to those two goals. Hence the killing, the massive consumption of resources, etc. What we're NOT good at is maximizing self interest, both in the medium term (our lifetimes) and in the long term (thinking about the impact of our actions on other generations). We are pretty good at taking care of our short-term interests, but don't always see how what apears to be good for us right now is not necessarily what's best in the long run.

there is no human nature.
there are rationalities, rules of social comportment, that create types of response to types of situations.
if a result of the internalization of a social arrangement, of the rules that enable people to operate within that arrangement, is that actors become adept at murder, at imagining murder, at imagining that others are adept at murder.
then the problem is the social situation.
individuals are adept at normalizing almost any social arrangement
they have to do so in order to function.
what they do not like about the results
they call human nature.
it is a way of dodging individual and political responsibility.

I think it's more of a technological issue than a "need" issue. I've seen cats at milking time, so I have at least one exception here. Plus, if I wanted to get really picky - both my dogs and my cats love cheese, ice cream, sour cream, butter, and a whole host of bovine milk products.

I would qualify it and say that humans drink another mammal's milk because we CAN; if other animals could regularly get cow's milk, they would, too.

As animals, we feel the inherent need to thrive and spread. However, as humans we recognize death, the only animal that does so. (Supposedly. If there are other sentient animals out there, I'll gladly put my theory aside since no other animal seems to act as we do when it comes to killing.) Where other animals kill one another for present need, we recognize that we can end another animal's life "early," for future need. It's an advantage we have over less developed animals. It's also, unfortunately a trait that very possibly leads us to believe that death or harm of an "opponent" is the preferable method of resolution.

There's also the idea of life credit. If it interests you, there's a section in White Noise by Don Delillo about it. But in sum: by killing the other guy, he cannot kill you. It's like trying to cure death by becoming it, like buying life by taking it. It's not a perfect answer, but maybe it charts the subconscious reasoning that lead to why a person kills. That is, the fear of their own death.

However, I'd like to think that we (humanity as a whole) will move out of the part of the genetic pool that is so deeply tied to the animalistic urge to kill and/or maim in order to gain dominance. I hope that it isn't that far off, there have certainly been people who show every sign of not being tied to such animalistic urges. And we are, after all, the most mentally developed animals on earth right now.

How in the hell do you know that?

Well the problem is that everything on the planet including animals in capable of killing, but I don't know if we do it anymore than other species.

To be honest, I am posting without reading the discussion because I have only one thought. If whales - dolphins - and monkeys are so awsome, where are their hospitals? Schools? Community picnics?

We do more than kill eachother. And even then, we are better at killing eachother than any other species. Sadly we are getting dammn efficant at our art of genecide.

But look at the upside. There is more to life than the killing and the slaughter. There is the laugh of a child.

I think that says it rather nicely.

I'm assuming. And if there's another around that's smarter, I hope to god that they stop us before we wipe ourselves, and them, out. I'm perfectly happy being a couple steps down the evolutionary ladder if it means somebody can stop the omnidestructive path we're going down.

And now time for the perfectly relevant Douglas Adams quote from one of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books.

i don't think we're necessarily smarter, it depends on your difinition of "smart". people seem to think that smart means good grades in school, or a high ranking profession; but the irony is that it takes a really stupid person to think that makes a person smart. intelligence is resillience, creative problem solving, quick wit - not knowledge. you could have all the knoweledge in the world, but that doesn't mean you could even process it, or offer any insight. animals are much smarter than we give them credit for, but humans definitely stand out among the rest of nature in that they are capable of materialistic thinking.