Knee Jerk Racial Reactions
 

There was thread over in Tilted Sexuality this morning wherein a guy asked about the feelings people have about inter-racial couples. Pretty much everyone, myself included, were pretty hard on the guy. Basically he wasn't saying is was wrong, but it just FELT wrong.

This got me thinking about my own racial attitudes. I would never class myself as a racist, but I think that some other people would, let me tell you a little about me.

I was raised in a small (pure white) town in Saskatchewan (its in Canada ;) ), and most of my major influences when growning up were a little intollerant. I'm not saying they were cross-burning red necks, but I was constantly exposed to the more passive forms of racisim. Y'know, things like innocuous statments like:

"sit at the table and eat like a whiteman"
"they were charging $200 but I jewed 'em down to $175"

Just to illustrate a few examples. I could go on and on, but maybe more on that later. All of this lead to me having slightly prejudiced views on other races be they black, native, jewish asian...whatever. Now to repeat myself, none of this was "overtly racist" just vauge (probably intended to be funny) put downs.

In time I grew up and left that small backward town in Saskatchewan and was exposed to the outside world. Where I met and got to know people where were black, asian... etc etc. Suddenly when I went home to visit my friends and family their attitudes and comments about other races seemed glarringly bigotted to me. IE: because I was living in Banff at the time my friends would ask me about "all the Japs."

Anyway to make a long story slightly shorter, I eventually grew out of my passive racisim and today it's not much of an issue to me. I was in a meeting yesterday at work and I realized I'm the only white guy in my department,and that's fine with me. Where as the 1991 version of me would have been very uncomfortable.

So what's my point?

To be honest I have kinda lost my way here in my rambling. I guess if anything it's that I (like the guy in the sexuality forum) have similar feelings towards certain racial situations. For example if I get cut off in traffic by a Sikh cab driver I might instictivly think: "stupid turban should learn to drive."

I then instantly admonish myself for racial profiling. By the same token however, when I get cut off in traffic by a white guy in an over-sized pickup truck I instinctivly think, "fuckin' moron redneck should go back to Saskatchewan." :crazy:

So I submit to you my fellow TFP'ers. Are we all closet racists or am I the only one who still compartamentalizes people based on their race?

i think its the attitude of society today.
with so many people trying to be overly PC, theres a lot of people who are doing the opposite.
i am of the personal belief right now that if we ignore it, it will go away because no one will pay attention to the racists anymore.
for example, you ever notice how often a homosexual will present themselves to make EVERYONE aware that they are in fact gay?
if they stopped doing that no one would care or pay attention and then *I think* homosexuals wouldnt get so harassed.
Now i realize that above statement is entirely (damn it i cant think of the word) eh. profiling is close enough
i too am like you marq in the snap decisions.

edit- for the record i have no problem with interracial couples, infact i almost prefer other races than white in the womens looks department

In terms of "knee-jerk racial reactions," I'm not even allowed to answer. Since I live in Alabama, most people (intentional or not) already have a pre-conceived notion of what my racial views must be, and anything I say will be skewed towards that direction by the less-enlightened members. Trust me, this is years of experience talking here.

Same here warrreagl.....born and bred southern people are usually going to be thought of as racists.


I admit to making comments when Im pissed off that include the race of someone, whether they be black, white, hispanic, asian...etc

I was brought up with a mother that thought like this "Black people are great, everybody should own one", it was the way she was raised and the way her parents were raised....fortunately Im enuff of my own person to get out of that way of thinking.

I, myself do not subscribe to that thought....I have friends of all different races and nationalities. I admit that if a person of another race asks me out, the first thought in my head is "oh man, my daddy would kill me", but it doesnt stop me if I find the PERSON to be someone Im interested in hanging around....

but yes, when I cant get in the door (or parking lot) at the local Quick Trip (chain gas station for those not in the atlanta area lol) in the mornings for all the mexicans inside and waiting on rides in the parking lot....I do mutter things about the fucking illegals going home.

But....I dont have a problem with interracial dating

I like the song from Avenue Q. Their take on it is quite honest and realistic. We are all a little bit racsist, but that doesn't mean I'm walking about spouting epitaphs and racial slurs...

From the Avenue Q Musical on Broadway...

A couple of days ago, I had already typed out a post in the American Idol thread concerning a possible racial bias where Randy Jackson's post-performance comments were concerned. However, my little internal "racial editor" scanned the post and made me delete the whole thing. I could just hear the sneers coming from across the Internet if anybody had read that post: "Fucking redneck cross-burning sheet-wearing Alabama hick. OF COURSE you think Randy Jackson is racially biased, you George Wallace-worshipping moron."

An awful lot of my posts end up that way. Even in a place as open as TFP, I still have to censor myself and my opinions, because the world is just not ready to accept an unbiased racial point of view coming from an Alabamian.


Me, either. I've always thought that the children from such unions were unbelievably pretty.

I don't have an issue with race but I am guilty of grouping people by their attire. I find myself thinking, "stupid gangbanger", "trailer trash" or "redneck" just by the way they are dressed. Of course I have good justifications for doing so, like "Hey, they're wearing the uniform, they most be a member of the club" I realize that even "well justified" grouping isn't fair or very smart so I try and avoid it, but that is my struggle. It's a hard habit to shake.

Well First, I'm glad that even as seemingly pointless my thread was, it got you thinking and you posted a thread with a point! I subscribe to a similar belief as you and while I may scream a slur at the cabbie, its not i'm racist, just when people act in a manner that confirms a stereotype it just makes sense.....

further... I think it's funny that everyone (including myself) must state ""I'm not racist but......."" before a comment. thats kinda intresting.

I am of the opinion (and I try to teach this to my music classes) that MOST ALL dislike of a certain type of music is not related to the music at all, but is actually related to the assumptions made about the people who typically listen to that type of music.

In other words, if you find yourself hating country music, then it's probably because you dislike the types of people you associate with country music. Rap music seems to work the same way.

I dunno...maybe. I can kind of see that with rap music...but, damn...country music just twangs and whines me to the utter brink of insanity. That is the music.

:eek: I'm sitting over here with my jaw on the floor, and my head spinning. I have to go somewhere and think about that one for a while. I wasn't planning on reassessing my core beliefs today, but...

I can admit I am a closet racist. It's pretty funny actually, I live in Minnesota a more liberal state in the union, my best friend since the age of 4 is black, and most of my high school friends are latino's from North MPLS (that's more or less our ghetto).

I think every white person is sort of raised to fear minorities, mostly black people, I know walking around the down town areas I get uneasy when a group of young black men approach, that's ironic too half of my school was black (albeit Catholic/private). Even though my positive experiences with black people far outweigh the few bad instances, I'm still bound to an uneasyness; that probably just due to the fact that I grew up in straight wonder bread.

Also I drop an abhorrent amount of N-bombs, I blame Chappel's show along with Clayton Bigsby for that though. On the issue of music sometimes I can't help myself when I hear some straight whack gangsta shit, I have often outloud said things like "Man this guy is a nig". Maybe I can work on this for lent.

I think the only black people that deserve to be called the N- word are those that act as such. There is a differnce between a black man and an N- (God I hate that word)

Well I try in be universal in my abhorrance, black and white alike. Your last sentence sorta reminds me of Chris Rock's "Whose more racist: Black people or White people" monologue.

Well, if I may come back to reality again, you and Bill have expressed my thoughts much better than I did. What I WISH I had typed is that I challenge my students to examine whether or not their dislike for a certain type of music is not related to their dislike of the people they associate with that music.

I challenge them to try and make sure that is not the case. Obviously, all of us (including me) dislike certain types of music, and some of us are able to base our dislikes on the music and not the people.

Apologies all the way around.

Apologies not accepted; :D I read what you intended, and there was no sarcasm in my post. I'm thinking about the categories of music that I dislike, and comparing them to my viewpoints concerning the type of people who listen to that kind of music, and I'm trying to figure out which is the chicken and which is the egg. Or if that egg came from that chicken. Still thinking...

I don't tell people I'm Jewish. I get treated differently and constantly badgered when I conduct anything dealing with money. Or I get the oven jokes, or someone screams heil hitler in my face to see my reaction. I've just had enough of that.

A realization I've also come to is that I use to fear black people. I knew I did and I hated that I did, but I guess society and the 5 o clock news pushes that on you. Since coming to college and playing basketball every day with a large amount of blacks, making friends, and just trusting people of other races I no longer make any distinction by skin color.

And as far as interracial dating, I've never had a problem with it at all, but before maybe a year ago I don't think I personally would have been open to it as I am now.

Just my thoughts

I'm not sure I'll buy that. I like hot guitars. Jazz, blues, rock, white guy, black, it really doesn't matter. Keyboards, vocals, etc just don't do it for me. Not sure I can find a bias in my preference.

I'm pretty anti-social in general. I can always find a reason to dislike someone without resorting to race.

I think what happened is you grew up. I was brought up thinking my family were racist - Grandpa talking about coons and wogs, it was "funny" to crack racist jokes to your friends (which still are funny but most just bigotry). Growing up you start to meet different people, not just in your sheltered family & school environment you were used to, and you open your eyes.... true racist bigots are morons. They generally are the scum of society already without their added racism.

Have to admit though, through my upbringing I can expell some of the worst racist slurs in certain situations (driving a car). Having said that I also do it to the elderly (old bastard/wanker/twat etc), women (bitch/slag/whore) so i'm pretty obscene in general to everyone when i drive.

Maybe i have road rage.

We need to make contact with some non-earth species and then we will realize how much alike all us earthlings are. Then we can all discriminate against those smug Alpha Centaurians.

I spent a couple of days in Dothan a few years back. Due to flight schedules and no more than I had to do, I had some time to spend in a few stores, malls, restaurants and such. I found everyone to be friendly and polite regardless of their skin color, not what most stereotypes people may believe. My next stop was farther north on Long Island. I walked into the shop that I was going to be working in that day and my guide told me a racist joke before he even introduced himself. Dumbasses are going to pop up anywhere and there is no geographic basis that is going to make you know when to expect one to show themself.

I don't know about that. As a come-down Yankee, I'm not sure it's always that simple.

I grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah. There's a great line in the film Six Degrees of Separation: "We're from Salt Lake City. There are like two black people in Salt Lake City." "Oh, yeah! I think I saw them one time! Two black people!" Literally, in the high school I went to, there was one black guy, a couple asians, and a whole bunch of middle class white kids. No latinos. It's not like I grew up in a racist environment, race just wasn't something I dealt with.

Then, I went to college in rural Minnesota. It was slightly more diverse, but not much. On my 3000-student campus, there was a small handful of black people, and they mostly hung together. I mean, wouldn't you? A few more asians, a few latinos.

When I moved to North Carolina it was MAJOR wake-up call about diversity and how the real world is. When I got my first job in NC, my manager was a big, powerful, amazing black woman--my first experience with such a creature. Suddenly living somewhere with some diversity, I had to really examine my automatic opinions and judgements about race. I had to deal with the issue that while I knew intellectually everything I needed to know about equality and racial sensitivity, I had zero on-the-court experience with it, and I certainly wasn't comfortable with it.

Even these days I have to deal with my racist tendencies. I catch myself looking at certain groups of people in certain ways, and I have to consciously pull myself back. What I find is that when I try to pretend I'm not racist, I have no ability to pull myself back. My automatic way of seeing people is just the TRUTH, and I've got no ability to shift my view in the moment. I have to stay responsible for my racism, keep owning my inner racist.

I don't normally think in racial terms, unless it's actually pertinent to a conversation or something (eg. describing how someone looks). I do enjoy racial stereotype jokes of all kinds though, which some might decide to brand me racist for, although the main reason I like them is because they are "taboo" more than anything else.

I got into a huge fight with my best friend and his wife one night about a topic like this.

We had watched "Get on the Bus", a movie about a busload of people heading to the Million Man March, in case you didn't know.

The movie dealt with how everyone has some prejudices within them. After the film, we were talking about it. I made the comment that everyone has prejudices. My friend and his wife blew up at me. They were adamant of the fact that they had absolutely no prejudices within them. They were offended that I would make such an accusation because they had spent years trying to eradicate such thinking from their minds. They became so hurt that I could suggest that even they held some prejudices that they left and we didn't speak for about a week.

Some months later, our relationship was a bit shaky because we didn't resolve that issue. It got resolved for us one day when we were at a stop sign and a large 4WD pickup pulled up beside us with a rebel flag sticker in the window. My friend commented, "fuckin' hillbilly rednecks."

"Aha!" I yelled out. "How do you know they're hillbilly rednecks?"
"Look at their truck!" he responded.
"That!...is prejudiced," I replied.
He thought for a moment, then said, "I guess you're right."
"Fuckin' hicks." I responded.

We all carry with us some form of preconceived notions of other groups of people. It doesn't make us evil to have those notions; it makes us human. It's how we decide to act that makes us what we are.

That...was very well said. :thumbsup:

Among my friends, race is nothing but a joke. We're all a bunch of college kids, and we refuse to take it seriously. We're all just people and it works well to see things that way.

You all have some interesting points about knee jerk reactions...internal editing etc.. so many of those ideas and problems have hit a chord in me over the years and I have found myself thinking deeply about this topic over the years....In my quiet place I can admit to myself that I don't always feel totally secure in myself..and to make myself feel better I pick out the flaws in others (which I know is really a flaw in me) The more obvious the difference between me and the target of my scorn, for lack of a better word right now, the lazier I am about self editing. Although race is a highly sensitive subject it is not the only area where I catch myself doing this. I'm tall, I am a good driver, My nose is not overly large, I have all of my teeth ,so on and so forth. I guess, most of that behavior happens when I'm not really thinking, rather just being thoughtless. To demean someone else on the basis of their differences wants to relieve us from the responsibility of understanding them and relating to them and really seeing how like us they really are. Just my 2 cents

Being a product of my environment I grew up being about as none racist as you can be. From kindergarten to like 9th grade my best friend was white. Hung with many latinos and was always friends with the one or two Asian kids in school. I generally don't see things and people in terms of their race. I mean I recognize the difference and what ever but I don't really find myself making a judgement on their abilities as a person based on race even in passing even when angered. If a person cuts me off in traffic I call them asshole or bitch appropriately based on gender. ;)

But what really shocked me though is in a family that raised me not to be racist how racist my parents are towards Mexican people. My mom is always saying little things here and there about how "They" let their kids run wild in the stores or whatever. I call her on it and tell her that's what white people say about us as black people. She then tries to explain it away but she displays some of the same racist tendencies that she always told us were wrong. And my dad.

He's a mean person anyway but he likes to "jokingly" talk bad about people and he says he means nothing by it(I mean he calls me and my sister all kinds of stuff in jest,at least we think)but he will lay into Mexican people like crazy sometimes and it brings looks of shock and disgust to my and my sister's faces. It really is sad that these two upstanding black people who were direct products of the racial revolution in Ameria(hell my mom grew up in Birmingham in the 50s)hold some of the same racists view points and seem to be perfectly fine with them.

But I suppose it is still progress though since they did raise two kids who don't work in the realm of color like they and their contemporaries do and hopefully my kids(who might be bi-racial)will live in an even more enlightened and color blind world. So if you guys that do have that little tinge of racism in them just make sure you teach your kids in the way you WISH you were and try to refrain from telling those little subtle racial "jokes" around your kids.

But I do agree that everybody is prejudice against some group. I have a disturbing amount of venom stored up for old people especially when they are driving.

I think a lot of people of all races have pre-conceived notions of other races, just something different we may have limited knowlege of, maybe been fed a line of BS like I was... and now have to learn for ourselves. I have seen, recently, very overt and visible racism. I gotta admit, I was really taken back and suprised that thinking still exists in this country!!

That's exactly what I think, but you've said it better :)

steroetyping does not equal racism, in todays PC climate our stereotypes are constantly being attacked and we are made to feel guilty for having them, I'm not racist (every body says that - especially the racists) but i do carry stereotypes around with me which have been created by society and the media - it's a categorizing system our brains use to distinguish between people. We can't help it but should be aware of it.

I'm glad so many people have been able to admit that they actually see color. All the time I hear people claim 'I don't see color, I don't know if I have any black or Asian friends because I don't even notice!' Bloody hell, I know what skin color my friends have, I'm not ashamed that I recognize it, and I'm not ashamed of the fact that when I see someone I'll notice their skin color. I notice people with blonde hair, I notice people wearing bright red sneakers and with Che Guevara t-shirts, why should I be ashamed to notice their ethnicity too?

And I'm not going to add 'And I have many [other ethnicity] friends' to this.

For real? I mean...that's just...I dunno. Pathetic? Personaly, I'd have little patience for that type of deluded stupidity. Of course I can see that someone is black, white, asian, hispanic, or what have you. If you don't, then you've got other issues, and should probably seek medical attention. It's only when these differences effect how you react to any given individual, that it becomes racism.

That's just sad and pathetic. Thank God I'm able to at least hear the differences between races, or else jazz music would be unbearably dull.

Exactly, Bill. Like others have mentioned it seems to be political correctness gone mad. I do think though that this hyper-correctness (I just made that up) is dwindling though and people are coming to their senses. I don't think PC was a 'thing' of the 90s, since it's certainly around now, but I hope, and from this thread I see, that lots of people are just acknowledging skin color, like anything else, and not making a deal out of it. That's the best way to be.

There's a few different definitions of being prejudice and being a racist and being a stereotyper. When defining prejudice, there's two definitions: those who have preconceived notions about a certain group of people, or those who treat the aforementioned group differently due to their characteristics.

If you consider being prejudice having a preconveived notion about a group of people, then of course everyone is prejudice. When I see a woman driving a 1989 Camaro with sweatpants on, I think she lives in a trailer. What's wrong with that? Is there something wrong with my assumption? Am I going to treat the woman differently because of my thoughts? No. I'm simply making the observation that based on past experiences, people who drive Camaros and wear sweatpants to the grocery store generally live in trailers. There is nothing wrong with this theory. No harm is being done to the woman and I would treat her no differently than anyone else.

Now, if I were to walk up to her and say, "Get a better car and wear some blue jeans Ms. Whitetrash." That would be prejudice.

Another misconception is racism. OBSERVING THAT A PERSON IS BLACK, WHITE, OR ASIAN IS NOT RACISM. If I say that a black guy did this or that, it's simply using a VERY useful description of the person to relate how he looks. If I say that a bunch of black people are at the theater, that's not racist -- it's a simple observation. Many people believe that calling a group of people "black" is racist because "everyone is the same no matter your skin color." Wrong. We're all different. I'm glad we have different skin colors...it makes it easier to identify and describe people.

On to the topic of stereotypes: stereotyping is an advanced, unconscious form of being prepared for the "future." If I stereotype the black people in the theaters in my hometown by saying that they're probably going to be loud, it's simply saying that I've observed black people being loud a majority of the time in theaters. Stereotyping? Yes. Wrong? I don't think so. Like I said, it's simply a method of guessing the outcome of an event based on previous observations. There is no harm done until I TREAT these people differently without experiencing the said actions.

One poster mentioned that in the past 15 years, the entire world has been obsessed with being politically correct. I agree. Being politically correct is pure, censored stupidity. I'm a white guy. There are black people, asian people, Canadians that say crick instead of creek, and hispanics that work for nothing in this world. Nothing changes this. One thing is for certain: pretending like there isn't a difference between race and skin color will only make it worse. Censoring what we say and do because we're afraid of offending someone's skin is even more abysmal...get over the dire fear of someone else thinking you're a racist and say what you feel. The only people in this world right now that have a racism or prejudice issue is those who truly don't like someone because of their skin color or race. Those people need help and are beyond this conversation.

-Lasereth

I drive a camaro and wear sweatpants to the grocery store...and I own a home thats not modular or on wheels :lol:

You would be surprised at the number of doctors and lawyers I run into at Harley rallys that look like outlaw bikers. :)

Just kidding, you make some good points.

Okay.

I was having this conversation the other day with a black guy and he agreed with me. And I'm starting to find other that do aswell.


There is a huge difference between a black person and a nigger. Just as there is a difference between a white person and a cracker/honky. Chinese - Chinc. Mexican - Spic. Gay - Faggot. Lesbian - Dyke... Or whatever other slur you can think of for anyone. Italian - WOP. Irish - Mic. Scottish - Mac. Okay I'm done.

The one that's associated with the slur is more than likely the extreme of the two. Does that make sense to anyone?

It makes sense but the usage of such slurs even if you think it appropriately applies just isn't the wisest thing to do.

I understand what you are saying. My hic family says that to explain they way they act. I really feel bad for the way that my uncles and grandparents act and look at things like this.

But what I have noticed growing up in the south and traveling around the country, is that its not a race issue its a money issue. It seems that those that are poorer lesser educated tend to be the more sterotypical ones.

I wish that we could get over all this race stuff. Its extremly silly. What we really need to be counrtist(don't ask me where i came up with that word). Well as an AMerican we should look out for Americans, and the same for The french, Canadians, Germans, and so on and so forth. Its kind of tribal thing, anyone who assoicates themselves with thier "tribe" helps everyone out. And these tribes will co-exist peacfully. Without the hatered from within tearing them apart.

I can honestly not think of a single prejudicial conception that I believe at the moment. If I have a thought that is prejudiced though (assuming I remember this thread), I'll notify you guys.

I think your right for the most part, but I think it depends how deeply closet racial someone is by where they grew up and who you grew up with. If someone grew up in LA it is going to make even more racial or not care at all. It usually depends on the family values toward different cultures, your parents usually mold you into the person you are today. Can be scary to think that some of the stupidist people in the world are able to cohabitate.

:hmm:

Is that a joke?

It's all a choice.


As you already know. Most stereotypes take pride in their stereotype. Which I will never understand. Jeff fuckin' Foxworthy made millions off of it.



"If you're to fuckin' stupid to know you're being made fun of...

You might be a redneck."

In Dec. hubby and I went to South Africa for his job for two weeks. I don't mean to offend anyone, but since this thread is about prejudice, I am going to say things about it from both sides of the Atlantic (this is from a U.S. perspective). This is by no means scientific and is mostly from hubbies perspective from working for two weeks at a S.A. company (and myself experiencing day to day life).

There seem to be 3 classes people fall into there. Afrikaans, colourd's, and niggers. I'm sorry for stating the last word but that is a fact there. Afrikaans are mostly white people and a few black that make up the "upper" class. Colourd's are black people that have one foot in the white world and one in the tribal (so to speak, this is all second hand through hubbies limited experience at one company, but dealing with all classes). "Niggers" refers to the tribal people, and they refer to themselves as that, as well as the Afrikaans and Colourd people do. I've posted before about my experiences there, but I feel like posting again for those of you who may not have read it.

In my experience, the so called "niggers" were in the most menial positions: cashiers, security guards, parking attendants, maids, etc.. One day, I had nowhere to go, so I went down to the dining room for breakfast to give the housekeepers time to do our room. I must have miscalculated the time needed as when I got back to our room the "maid" was only half-way done. I offered to leave and come back later but she insisted it was ok that I stay. I felt like a complete asshole as this poor woman literally got down on her knees and "swept" the entire room with a brush and a bucket of water. Hello? Had this hotel never heard of vacume cleaners? Even the cheapest fleabag motel in the US has vacumes for the housekeepers. This was a 3 star hotel which in my opinion (all else considered) should have been a 4 star. And the maids had to get down on their knees and brush the carpet. Obviously, human labor is cheaper there than buying a vacume per floor. I gave her a huge tip and cried once she left our room.

I know I might receive some angry reponses because of my forthcoming statements, but so be it. I wholeheatedly agree that the civil rights movement needed to happen. Unequality needs to be challenged and fought. But, the majority of black people living in America today were not slaves. Yes, their ancestors or (very, very, lucky to be still alive) older relatives might have been, but they were not. If even a fraction of black Americans were able to go to South Africa as I was lucky enough to, they quite possibly would not be complaining as much about what they have to deal with in the U.S. as far as racism or equality goes. Being there reminded me of what the U.S. may have been like 10 yrs. after the (legal) end of slavery.

Pay attention to that. Not the beginning of the civil rights movement, but the "end of slavery", therefore the late 1800's. Thats how far behind South Africa is in comparison to our country. Yes, hubbie and I laugh at "Timah" (Timmy) on South Park, even though it's making fun of a stereotype, but it is just a momentary chuckle and not representative of the way we deal with or judge people. Being in S.A., we didn't find anything to chuckle about. We loved the people (mostly the tribal people) and we left the country feeling mostly negative about the "white" people that we were forced to interact with through his job. Frankly, the white people disgusted and saddend us with their snobby attitudes and obvious prejudice against anyone who wasn't white (almost laughable given that white's are very much the minority there).

Ali

You can call me an uptight-politically-correct-asshole if you'd like but this is what I believe and what is a man if not the sum of his moral convcitions?

We can choose to look at the concept of race as it is today: a seemingly irrefutable fact because it's so widely believed and makes comes off as so self-evident - or we can take a realistic look at ourselves, the role we play in this world, and exactly how much the concept of race has done for us as a species.

I don't scold myself everytime I classify someone into whatever group they'd go in to but I do take a moment to aknowledge the fact that the concept of race is completely groundless and by writing someone off by their race I learn nothing worthy of any value about the person.

What starts off as a thought in my mind can easily become the words of another person and the fuel and justification behind another's hatred. It's easy to assume that there's no harm in it all but if you take a look at all the people whom you have infleunce over and exactly how large a role you play in this world you'll realize that something larger than you'd ever imagine can grow from something you'd assume to be so small.

None of us can help but to classify people into certain groups but the classification defeats it's own purpose. You attempt to come to a useful conclusion about one person in particular and all you get in return are nothing but impersonal, preconcieved notions that give you nothing useful to go on.

....I could go on for pages but it'd be just as useless as the topic I'm discussing.

To be on-topic for once, we can accept our knee-jerk reactions as involuntary is an option but it certainly isn't a realistic option. I can understand how in a world of "mass media mind control" and constant psychic wars it seems impossible to change how you think but it's possible and to do anything less than try only perpetuates the problem.

Racial slurs happen. I try not to be racist, but... It happens. The only group that I think I truly cannot stand are black thugs. Pull your pants up, take the off the gang colours, and your leg isn't broken, stop limping (or if that a product of the knee-pants?)

As for interracial couples... It's the same thing. I don't enjoy (probably becuase I just don't understand) seeing a good white girl (not all white girls are good, mind you. A lot of them still do drugs, smoke up, get drunk four times a week, sleep with every other man she sees, and verbally abuses the rest.) hooked up with one of them, hanging off his arm. But... I can't stand seeing good white girls hanging off of white thugs too.

I don't understand attraction to the base elements of thuggery. Maybe they're looking for a challenge, or a fixer-upper. Or an adulthood of shouting matches, bruises and broken bottles.

Maybe I'm a little bit racist too.

I'm going to refute a few of your opinions don't take this as an attack or anything as this is coming from a place of complete calm but just putting up a disclaimer since disagreements over beign stuff like this occurs often over the intraweb. So again I'm not mad at you just disagreeing slightly. Oh and also don't take me as some militant acolyte either. I'm probably a harsher critic of my race than any white person can be but I think I have a little more experience on the other side that many do not have. That said....

Both my grandmothers and several of my older aunts did minial labor like that up to and immediately after the civil rights movement so such racism isn't that long dead in this country. And while it might not be blatant it's far from dead and in many ways subtle unspoken racism is much more damaging in the long run. But to say the concerns of some people in America are invalid because of the plight of somebody else in another country isn't living in the reality of the situation. I can go find areas of the world where "white" people live that are well below the level that just about any "white" person in America lives but that doesn't invalidate the American's complaint or concerns about certain things.

We have to deal with these things based upon what's in OUR society and by no other yardstick. I don't care if the black people in England or Canada are supposedly less descriminated against. I don't care if the black people in South Africa are more oppressed. Call me an asshole but I only care about what goes on in the 50 nifty United States and if there are unfair things going on here then well I think it should be spoken against because societies can't progress if they are just looking at people in worse situations and saying "Hey see how bad they have it? You should be thankful for what you have." That not only goes for minorities but also you women folk as well.

How would you like it if say somebody during the women's sufferage movement said, "Hey I was just over in Egypt and they don't let their women out of the house!(Not that this is factual just making a point so all you Egyptoligst give me a little leeway). You women folk should be happy we even let you roam around in public."
See what I mean?

If you don't have the same attitude towards the biker element,the trailer park ruffians,the latino vatos,Italian tough guys,so on and so forth...then yes you probably are just a tiny bit racist.

Perfectly good white girl....huh.

EDIT:And racial slurs don't just "happen". It's a product of a deep seeded or not so deep seeded bias against that group. Just like calling a homosexual a "faggot" or "dyke". That doesn't just happen you had to have thought that at some point deep down for it to come out of your mouth.

Personally I have made my share of mistakes too. I have offended people from differeing races and groups because of generalizations that I have made about them, in my attempts to act intelligent or politically astute. I have had prejudiced thoughts.

The reality of the situation for me is this:

I jump to a generalization about groups or situations often. Especially when I am viewing the media or following a news story etc. Apparently it is a normal trait in a healthy Human being to generalize like this. We do it in order to condense ideas so that we can see the larger more complex patterns and ignore the familiar ones. BUT... if I don't rethink after such a generalization I sometimes come to an overtly racist conclusion...

For instance I thought many terrible thoughts about Muslims in the days following september 11, 2001. I fretted over the fact that people from this religion hated americans so much, and how they treated others. I hated them!

It was hard NOT to generalize because of the strong emotional response that the situation seemed to stimulate. but....After a few Days of doing this I started to rethink.... "hey they were just human beings"... "how did they get to the place where they hated someone enough to fly a plane into a large building killing themselves and others?" Obviously these people had let someone 'Dupe' them into killing others and themselves. They were indeed responsible! They did a terrible thing, but they weren't alone, they had the help of a fundamentalist network.

If I had not generalized at first I would not have grown to a deepr understanding of the situation through experience.

I now see Muslims in a completely different way because the generalizations (prejudices?) that I had never tested before Sept 11 failed under my scrutiny of the situation. I now know and understand much more about the Muslim religion, how it has Liberals and Conservatives and even Fundamentalists just like Christianity. People are just people.There are very many Loving Muslims who hate what happened that day. They would never have wished such a tragedy on anyone.

But... I am sure that I will be forced to test other generalizations of mine sometime soon... hopefully I will grow! It's just a matter of time before i am made aware of another prejudice I may have...

I guess the difference is that I am willing to let my prejudices go as I am made aware of them. Sometimes it is very hard to do... but I am willing to try.

Thats why I beleive that although I am Prejudiced in nature, I am not a racist in action.

I would love to hear comments on my thoughts


RCALYRA

I am very comfortable in my interracial marriage to a beautiful, wonderful, woman of mixed race herself.

When we're shopping for groceries, and I want some saltines for my chili, she says "but I already have a cracker." She just cracks her self up with that one.

Nothing feels more right than watching my wife laugh.

Of course it's going to be around - but just "acknowledging skin color" is, I think, one way to superficially ignore some profound differences in culture! I think our self-professed "color-blindness" will ultimately hurt intra-group relations by not allowing us to take into considerations differences in group norms.

I used be a racist of the human race. I had to deal with racism from everyone being the Chinese kid who grew up in white suburbia. I had to deal with racism from everyone whites, blacks, mexicans, indians, and shockingly other asians. Think it sucks being on one side of racism? Try it from all angles and see what it feels like. People seriously need to get their heads out of their asses and stop the hate. It's not going to go away if you forget that it exists. Give everyone the same respect you expect from other people.

Why does it really have to matter? I'm a Southern boy, through and through. Raised rural and will probably always stay that way (in basic thinking [another thread]). I grew up to be a redneck; but when I left for basic, I saw the bigger world. I love the country-way of living, but that's about so much more. People are people. What my father would call a white N-, was white trash. But trash is trash. You should always base a person on who he/she is. Judge the individual on what you know about that individual - not what you preceive. Perception can be a mother-fucker.

My crazy coot of an uncle used to say "There's black people, and then there's niggers" and I think that was just a very colorful way of saying - either you're an asshole, or you're not. My godmother came from a dirt poor family in rural Appliachia, and she's still pretty darn poor. She and my godfather raise chickens, and have a dirty kinda house and a beater car, and talk in the most hillbilly dialect possible. Yet she's such a sweet woman, and raised me alongside my mother, and is just a wonderful person altogether. And then, there's the Barker family, who are in the exact same situation and are a bunch of inbred hillbilly assholes. So, if you're an asshat, I'm going to treat you like one, and if you happen to be an asshat and a hillbilly/ "african-american"/ "latino"/ "semite", it basically all boils down to you being an asshat.

And you know, I think a lot of the bigotry directed at black people is a product of the self-fufilling prophecy of "I'm black, and I'm nothing, and I'm never going to amount to nothin" attitude. By thinking you're unable to get an education and a job, you defeat yourself before you even start. So, black people store up a lot of unfocused rage at their percieved inability to "better" themselves, and thus lash out in socially destructive ways, which is negatively percieved by the rest of society. But this is the opnion of a white middle class woman, so obviously I'm racist.

Racism has existed in virtually every culture since pretty much the dawn of man. It's been an issue for a long time.