Police shoot and kill 13-yr old boy
 

full story

i heard on the radio today that the family was going to file lawsuit against the city of LA. the attorney sounded pissed and stated 'we've seen the diagrams of the policy and we fail to see what was wrong' or something to that effect.

from the article and what i've heard on the radio, it seems the 13-yr old boy stole a car, went crusing with it at like 3:50 am with a buddy, was ordered to stop, backed the car into a police cruiser, then was shot and killed. if i'm missing anything or misinterpreted any part of this, please feel free to correct me. and if the mod's feel this is inappropriate, delete at will and accept my apology.

so before i voice my opinion, i want to hear if i got most of the story right so as to not sound like an ignorant fool.

The dumb kid should not have stolen the car and the cops the overreacted. Case closed.

I don't think the cops over-reacted at all. If someone runs a car at me, I'm sure as hell gonna shoot at them. A car is a deadly weapon.

Bratton said such a policy should prohibit officers from shooting "unless the officer or other person are threatened by deadly force, other than the moving vehicle," according to The Times.

This is stupid. Someone could take a car into a preschool and start doing donuts, and the police would not really have any good way of stopping it. The police should be able to use deadly force whenever it looks like people's lives are in danger, no matter the method.

I too see nothing wrong with what happened here. It doent matter the age of the person, heck kids today at 13 want to be treated as adults may as well let them have the full dish.

The kid was committing a felony, attacked the officers with the car, and the shooting comes as a surprise? The kid should have thought of it before he stole the car. our child-centric country is going way overboard doting on these kids.

I think after seeing car chases ending up in the criminal getting shot I would definately think twice about running from police let alone backing the car into a patrol vehicle.

He was in a school for gifted children?? Just goes to show you that all the intelligence in the world won't cover for a lack of common sense.

Why is the mother sueing the city instead of having been out hunting down her deliquent child at 3am?? He was 13 - I promise you - my daughter better not think about being out that late when she's that age or she'll be grounded for months or MORE.

Sad - the whole thing is a sad, sad story.

Wow, I am surprised by the first 5 responses in this thread.

When I was reading the artcile I expected a chorus of "cops suck" and "I would have just talked to the boy." Once again I am surprised and impressed by the attitudes of my fellow TFP'ers.

I too support the police in this action, if someone is ramming a car into my car, I don't care who it is.... I'm going to shoot them. Actually I feel very sorry for the cops involved in this shooting, even if they are found to be in the right in the case of this shooting they (he) are still going to be saddled with the guilt if having shot and killed a kid.

Sad situation all around.

Wow, I don't see how the cops were wrong in this case... It's a shame that it happened how it did, but they did what they had to do to protect themselves and anyone else this kid might have gone after with the car. If someone tried to run an average person down with a car, everyone would blame the driver, not the other person for trying to stop him. Police have to be able to do their jobs without worrying about a lawsuit every time they do ANYTHING. I'm really sick and tired of people suing for everything that ever goes wrong or that they don't like. Like I said, it's a shame that they had to shoot, but they were defending themselves.

Ordinarily, I would be the first to champion the police. Dumbass little gangbanger(?) steals a car, refuses to follow police intructions, backs into a police cruiser, and fully expects to be hailed as a hero back in the 'hood. Then, the community gets in an uproar when the little criminal comes to a "bad end". Sorry. I don't care how many girls that he made laugh in school. I don't care how many honors programs he was in. Reap what you sow anyone?
However...10 rounds? As a former cop, I've got a huge problem with that. The degree of force used to subdue the suspect was way in excess of the level of threat exhibited. Had the little gangbanger pulled a weapon and fired on the officer...then I'd have absolutely no problem at all with 10 rounds being inserted into his useless body. But this? This smells like yesterdays dirty diapers. I do believe that we have identified a cop that needs to be removed from the public, if not society.

If I put myself in the cops position, I would have done the same thing.

I feel bad for the kid, but he brought it upon himself. The kid's parents are what pisses me off. It's not like cops are out trying to find excuses to shoot 13-years old kids. It was a split-second decision and he acted on instincts of self-preservation.

I'm saddened to read that so many of you support on-the-spot death penalty as punishment for reversing into a police car.

What's wrong with following the stolen car until some back-up arrives so it can be boxed in or rammed off the road?

I thought it was 10 rounds into the car with many probably missing the boy. Not 10 rounds in the kid.

Really depends if other lives were in immediate danger IMHO.
If they were, then there is a situation where it could be justified.
If they wern't, and only property was likely to be damaged, then it is hugely out of line.

Sad story, anyway you look at it, though :(

Sounds to me the police overreacted. There in a freakin police car, putting a car in reverse to hit their car is NOT going to endanger their lives (they're in the car). There is no reason why they needed to shot the car, aim for the tires or something but jesus they shot the kid to death for that. Give me a break.

Yep, without big assumptions there's no way to know from the details if it was justified. It isn't going to help the officer's case that his partner didn't fire a single round.

Wasn't one of the officers outside of the car.

And when a cop is yelling at you from outside of a car he is usally behind you. So, How can you fault him because I would empty a clip as well at a car coming towards me. Because you probably won't hit the driver, and that should scare the driver from doing anything else.


Sucks for everyone here. Seems the kid had a real good chance to get out and make a good life for himself and then he went and did something llike this. It's just sad.

After reading the story and the responses I would have to agree that I don't see anything wrong with shooting the kid. It is sad that the kid died and will not have a chance to turn his life around, do the crime, gotta take the punishment.
In tornoto in the summer there was a kid around 17 I think that was in a gang fight and was holding a knife, the cops busted the fight up and the kid made a move toward the cops, the cops told him to drop the knife, another move, bang kid is dead. now that might not be all the details of my foggy memory but its the same sorta thing. cop asks you to drop the knife you better drop the knife or.......
oh and with the kid, his family i think sued for some racisim thing as the cop was white. stupid. family said he was a good kid....a good kid that gets into gang fights with knifes...lovely.

You never know when reversing into another car might cause it to spontaneously explode! :crazy:

I'm not surprised that people are supporting the cops, this always happens. An untrained cop overreacts and nobody wants to assign any slight amount of blame on the cops.

This is usually what happens but in some cases, this being one of them, that wasn't an option:

Basically, the kid ran off the road into a fence, it was either give up or back up and by that time, the squad had already stopped behind the vehicle in an attempt to block it in. The kid obviously wasn't thinking about giving up so he went with option #2. In this case, the cops had to act before waiting for back up.

Coming from a country where very few police officers carry weapons and shooting the child would never be an option, I just think it seems a bit drastic.

So...after nine years on the LAPD, when do you suppose his training was to commence?

First of all, they might not have been in their car at the time. Secondly, if he has already shown himself willing to run down police officers how do you think he will react to pedestrians? They needed to stop him right then.

As for the shooting, a lot of people seem to have been watching way too much TV. There are rules about when and how you should shoot.

1) If you decide to fire your gun you have a good reason; shoot at the target, not tires or their weapons. The police are not the Waco Kid. Bullets flying around are bad news, so shoot at something you know will stop the situation instantly.

2) If you have already decided to shoot, do so until you have accomplished your goal. A "shoot and check" attitude will get you killed. 10 rounds can go off very quickly, and I am certain many of them did not hit the kid.

I'm not a big fan of the police, but in this case I support them. How were the cops to know this was a 13 year old kid, he could have been any age and off his head on drugs. If you are committing a crime which could endanger the life’s of others, and you refuse to stop when the police have caught you then, unfortunately the consequences could be losing you life.

if you choose to be a criminal, you should know the law of your country or state and except the penalties when you break those laws. and also, Phage is spot on. shooting out tyres or such other nonsense is exactly that, nonsense. you use a car as a potentially lethal weapon, expect to get lethal resonse. if he didnt steal a car, and didnt try to ram the police, he would never have been in harms way.

when you commit a criminal act, you should be held totally responsible for anything that is a direct or indirect result of that criminal action. The kid STOLE a car and then RAN from the police and then HIT a patrol car. sorry the kids dead but its his fault.

Police risk their lives everyday, this kid was breaking the law and attempting to drive over an officer (if not, then what was he doing backing into the car?)

They didn't know what was in the car, only that it was a danger to everyone.

It is a sad thing, but what was he doing out so late stealing cars anyway?

There are some people who instantly hate the police. They have issues with authority, maybe because they are always on the wrong side of the law.

Count me as a vote with the cops. A vehicle is a deadly weapon, and they had reason to fear for not only their own lives, but the lives of any pedestrians.

I see no problem with the police action. A car is a deadly weapon. The kid used the car as such when he rammed the cruiser. Had the kid surrendered when he hit the fence he'd likely be alive right now.

It was an unfortunate situation all around.

As a former cop, you should know that isn't uncommon.

Most of the guys don't even know how many rounds they fire. They usually say 2-3 rounds and it turns out to be at least twice that many.

Ever since the switch over to high-cap magazines, this has become increasingly more common--especially when you are running on adrenaline.

In the old days, they would empty their chamber firing all six rounds--not smart--but many do. Now, with 15 and 16 round magazines, a lot of these guys keep firing until they hear "click". The only problem I have is that after the first round, their accuracy goes in the toilet. I'd didn't catch it, but I would bet the kid got hit one or two times out of the ten rounds fired.

Now that I am typing this, I am kinda changing my opinion. Control isn't taught like it used to be in the old days of the acadamy. It sounds like these guys need to train more at "Hogan's Alley"--do they even use training aids like that anymore?

/still a justified shooting

I don't think the car backed into the police car at 90 miles an hour, so I hardly think the police officer's lives were in danger. I have seen many an episode of "America's Wildest Police Chases" and the officers did not unload ten rounds into a car each time a police car was struck. I think the cop should be canned. I wouldn't want his trigger happy ass patrolling my neighborhood.

Oh yeah? Well I watched many an episode of Law and Order so I happen to know that thats slander. And don't even THINK about getting rude with me man, I've watched Bruce Lee and know how to unload, man. Kung FU style, if you know what I mean.

:thumbsup:

It is kinda soon to assume the shooting was justified when all the facts have not come out. It takes a little longer than a day to make a case, usually it takes about a few weeks before they can determiine justification. I know what I said earlier says that I'm completely against the cops, but if one of them were outside the car or their was a pedestrian near by, I might understand the shooting. Maybe not the 10 rounds (unless it was a life or death situation). But they still need to interview witnesses and get all sides of the story. I wouldn't pin an opinion on one news report.

It has been much longer than a day, this happened 2/6/05--there have been many, many stories about it.

The kid backed up about 20 ft to hit the patrol car. At night, in a bad neighborhood, this could be construed as intent, especially since they didn't know anything about the driver, the car is only listed as stolen at this point.

Backing up 20 feet to hit me tells me you are doing it on purpose. Now, after the fact, we know it was a kid who probably had no control of the car. The officer in this case, couldn't have known it so most likely took the event as an attempt to hurt him or his partner.

Now, the next thing is key for me.

After backing up 20 or so feet to hit the patrol car, the car moves more and hits the back of the patrol car as well.

Here is where I probably would have fired as well....

The kid pulls up virtually side-by-side with the patrol car.

With 20/20 hindsight, we now that the kid probably had no control of the car, was panicking and didn't want to hurt anybody.

For the cop, in a bad neighborhood, at night, being hit twice by this car....then the car pulls up along side....he probably felt that the guy was lining up for a shot. Most people would have stopped after hitting the patrol car once, if it is an accident.

The kid didn't stop though, he kept going. If I was the cop, I would think that something crazy is going on, that this situation is going from bad to worse very fast and then begin to take steps to protect myself.

I've been in patrol cars in this area, you are a friggin' target.

That is why I think it is justified....not because of the story linked on the first post.

Two words: Good shoot.

YOu know Randy Moss hit a cop with his car and got off scott-free. That's messed up too. So it's not a "race" thing.

I agree. We are talking about a CHILD here... :|

oops... That last post was me. I was on Moobie's computer. :D

I agree that 10 rounds is VERY DRASTIC, however I don't disagree with the principle. It was 3-4 am, they didnt know anything about the driver, the driver chose to back the car into the patrol car, and cars are a deadly weapon. He didnt deserve to die, but he definately put on some big shoes that morning. No matter how good your kid is in school it doesnt make up for the fact that they can still be a bad kid. I also agree that this officer needs to be removed from the force and severely punnished for his actions. A round or 2 into the car was probably more than enough to scare the shit out of the kid, had he made a second attempt to ram the car into the police cruiser, or ran off again that would warrant further action, but if he had come to a stop, theres no need for more.

Do you guys get the feeling that the entire news article posted was anti-cop?

"Police kill and shoot 13 year old boy"

Kind of seemed like it was presented in a way to construe the police as having knowingly killed a 13 year old boy.

My opinion on wether the shooting was justified?
I don't know... I would say no at first glance but I don't really have a solid opinion since I don't know what happened.

10 rounds ARE quite a bit ...