Bad Parents / Bad Kids
 

Two Adults, One Student Charged in Suburban Chicago Hazing Incident



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,87483,00.html

Wednesday, May 21, 2003

SKOKIE, Ill. — Two parents were charged Wednesday with supplying alcohol to students at a suburban Chicago high school who participated in a brutal hazing incident captured on videotape.

Christine Neal, 49, was charged with delivery of alcohol to a minor for buying three kegs of beer, two of which were found at the park where the hazing took place, prosecutors said. Marcy Spiwak, 49, was charged with allowing her home to be used for underaged drinking.

One should remember that these parents are innocent until proven guilty.

I am in the business of selling liquor. It is an honorable business for the most part. Each state has different laws regulating the sale of alcohol. Every state has some type of law that prohibits the furnishing of alcohol in any form to anyone under 21. Everyone has been inundated with video of the now infamous
"Powder Puff" Football Game. Drinking by minors evidently played a major role in the activities - or at least was made to appear as such in the videos. In our state this would have been looked at as a more serious crime than it is Illinois. Alcohol was not the cause of what happened. What happened would probably have happened with or without the alcohol. But! If I had sold them the alcohol they would have hung my butt, I would have lost my license, and been out of business.

What do you all think about:

1. Teenage drinking

2. Furnishing alcohol to minors

3. Selling alcohol to minors

Is there a difference in selling it to them or buying it for them?

Where does one place the blame? Are parents becoming so permissive that they don't care what their kids do? How much of this permissiveness is the underlying cause of the problems many kids have today. Do parents actually have any control what-so-ever anymore?

Your turn.

teenage drinking.. fine at home under your supervision with responsible drinking, meaning drinking wine with dinner, sips of beverages, kahlua in cofee etc. not PLASTERED drunk

Furnishing alcohol to minors... different kids have different thresholds of responsiblity, varies from child to child and again under supervision and given RESPONSIBLY not to be consumed outside the house.

Selling alcohol to minors... never never never never.

i think that parents should have the right to supply whatever they want to their kids, when they're able to think for themselves and wont cause big harm to their body's.


btw, i dont drink

These two 49-year old women should have known better. Strip 'em, take pictures of 'em, post 'em far and wide, then set them loose.

Unless they like that idea. :)

For some odd reason, some parents think their children are just minature adults.

THEY'RE CHILDREN, IDIOTS!

That means they have not developed the social and moral restraints that age and experience bring.

I have no problem with kids having a glass of wine with dinner (they do it in Europe all the time), but to turn a group of teenagers loose with kegs of beer and no supervision,

WTF WERE THESE WOMEN THINKING???

So to answer your questions LD, parents are the moderator for children until they can develop their own internal moderation. That means gradually exposing them to the adult world, but in such a way that they won't get hurt by it.

The occasional drink? OK
Selling? No, that is why there are parents.

1. Teenage drinking

If you start you, have to start at some time. If yours are going to drink make the do it at home and watch them.

2. Furnishing alcohol to minors

It's illegal for them for a reason. Hell, many adults can't handle the responsibilities let alone minors.

3. Selling alcohol to minors

I can't imagine how stupid this would be.

Is there a difference in selling it to them or buying it for them?

Only if they are your own.

If parents were acutally punished for their childrens actions there would be a lot less of this crap occuring with the young folks. We seem to have a hell of a lot of immature adults as parents out there.

1) Teenage drinking - I defer to Chris Rock on this one - "I don't condone it...but I understand it."

2) Furnishing alcohol to minors - absolutely not.

3) Selling alcohol to minors - no, no, no! I've lived several places, and I've noticed that Midwestern states view drinking as more mainstream and are less likely to pull someone's liquor license if they're caught selling to minors. In the South, the license is revoked and everybody involved goes to jail.

1. Teenage drinking happens..probably always will. Does that make it right.. legally no. Morally that's up to the kid and the parent.

2. Furnishing no, it could really lead to problems..this case proves that.

3. Selling not under any circumstances.

I can see differences between selling it and buying it for them. My reasons are the same as the posters above me.

Those two women need to have their uteri revoked. It's really inexcusable to buy three kegs for minors, and I don't understand how these people can become parents.

Um, at 49 yo, I don't think they'll be getting pregnant anyway.

ROFL

Best damn plan I have heard in a long time.

1) I don't think there's much to discuss about it. For good or bad teenagers will drink whether they can buy it or not, whether it's legal or not ... and if you're lucky they'll start smoking weed or what worse because it's easier to get hold of ;)

2) Parents: yes. I don't know how it is other places, but in Norway, if they can't buy regular alcohol, they end up buying home made 96%, sometimes even mixed with some methanol. And if you have to ask your mom for beer maybe you would ask for a bit less, bring a bit less and drink a bit less than if you had gotten it yourself :)

3) No, this goes with #2. If they can't buy it in the store, but can ask their parents, then they can legally get proper alcohol. Now of course I think that the 21-year limit in the US is completely ridicilous. As my American friend's dad said to the 18-year old Marine who came to their place: "If you're old enough to die for your country you're old enough to drink." One might of course argue that some limits are also too low (Denmark: 15 for beer). I think 18 is good.

Oops, good point, hehe. :)

Picking an age to signify the attainment of maturity is pure hogwash bullshit. I know of 16-17 yeras olds that are more mature than some 50 year olds. I am not arguing the need for laws - what really chaps my ass is that the state tells me what time I can open - what time I have to close - what I can and cannot sell - where I have to sell it - who I have to buy it from - what I have to pay for it (+TAX of course) - and you can buy crack or meth from half the nerds in town. If I screw up and sell to a minor or for almost any other violation - I lose my license, am fined, and do not get to pass go and collect $200. They get busted for meth they get slapped on the hand - have to wash a firetruck or two, and they are back in business. This almost seems like someones priorities are a little skewed to one side. I have no disagreement with someone providing alcohol to their own kid - I have a real problem with someone that buys their kid 60 gallons of beer and helps them haul it to the party. Everyone who has responded was totally intolerant of selling to a minor - but saw nothing wrong with a parent doing what these two did! I fail to see one iota of difference.

Naturally, but if you don't want to leave the judgement of maturity up to the seller case by case (which in most cases is almost the same as no limit at all) the government must set a limit at some age ...

The way I see it they were supplying minors who were not their own kids, which should not be allowed. But to take a less extreme example. You give a case of beer to your 17-year old son, who then gives one to his buddy. Is this then "parents supplying alcohol to minors who are not their children"?

It is in this state. In fact, you don't have to give it to them - just leaving it where they can get to it technically violates the law so - Lock your gun cabinet and lock your refrigerator.

Mmm, I was more thinking generally without any specific state or country in mind.

I think the Hobbits have it right: 33.

When I was in this barbar shop quartet in Skokie, Ill. we used to hang out this guys house...

Hehe, now that's measured from time of birth.

If you instead go for number of years you're allowed to drink they would get like 67 years. So saying a human lives to the age of 80 we should be allowed to drink from the age of 13 :p

I'm from a culture where the law allows you to drink from 18, and most prople drink earlier than that. We don't have any greater degree of alcohol related crime than the USA as far as I can see, in fact I'd argue that the UK has less. Certainly France does. Oh well, different cultures.

LD you said: "But! If I had sold them the alcohol they would have hung my butt, I would have lost my license, and been out of business. "

Would the controlling authorities really come down hard on you for this? Did the sellers in this case actually do anything wrong? Seems to me they legally sold the alcohal to adults.

1) What can I say besides it is going to happen.

2) Furnishing alcohal to minors: When I was 14 went camping with friends. His mom who was in the campsite next to us provided us beer. In this case we had a degree of privacy and also had some supervision. I can live with that. Just giving it to minors and letting them go who knows where is a bad bad idea. Anyone who does this ought to be prosecuted.

3) Selling to minors bad. see number 2.

I am 18, and have been drinking since 15 or 16, not regularly but at parties and stuff with my parents there, and they were fine with that, because they figured they would rather be there when I experimanted...because it was going to happen one way or another...

Most of the parties I have been to had the parents there come to think of it...I still got fairly plastered, but they watched out for us. In this respect I think underage drinking is fine, after all, this way there is a safty net.

As for myt graduation, my parents will have a keg or two, and I'm welcome to have a few, and catch a buzz, but anything more and they have enacted the don't ask don't tell policy provided kids will not be driving...I think they know I am repsonsible and are just covering their asses...

If you chose to let your children who are minors drink alcohol, then it should be carefully monitored, and in a responsible manner. The parents who allowed what happened with the hazing to occur should definently be punished. It was completely irresponsible on their part to let this kind of behavior occur.

Teenage drinking is here to stay folks no matter what we think.

I have no problem letting kids have a drink in the family home with supervision. (I was allowed to have beer and wine with dinner and special occasions). When I was going out for the night my Mom would buy me a case of beer if I asked because she knew I was responsible when drinking it. Totally banning alcohol only makes them want to try it that much more. I had friends at school that just wanted to get pissed on weekends no matter what, while I liked having a few beers to catch a buzz instead.

I would never sell to minors I didn't know, but when my kids get to the age where they want some beer or wine and they are responsible enough to handle it, I would be happy to get them some. If they turn out to be idiots about it or break the rules (drinking and driving, selling/supplying it to others) they get none from me.
It's too bad there are so many fuckups that don't know how to instill proper values and character in their children.

The legal age here is 19.

If my kids want a beer, i will buy them some to drink with me at our home. Poeple who provide beer to kids who are not their own deserve whatever problems it brings them.

A beer for a child of your own at home is one thing. Supplying the fuel for a kegger is completely different. If you want to allow your teen a beer at home, fine. Send them off on their own with several kegs, you need a checkup from the neckup. Selling to minors, Why? Why would anyone take that risk.