Virgin Maddness - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

tecoyah · 12-12-2004, 02:58 PM

Title Gotcha didn't it.

Seriously.....why the hell do we feel the need to lie to Kids, as if they are too stupid to figure it out for themselves. This just pisses me off, as it is likely to make a bad situation....significantly worse, and those in power are too damn Christian to see beyond thier collective asses.

http://sptimes.com/2004/12/12/Column...ching_on.shtml

Fact-free teaching on sex

By ROBYN E. BLUMNER, Times Perspective Columnist
Published December 12, 2004

The 1938 government antimarijuana propaganda film Reefer Madness is still watched today for its campy excesses. Dr. Carroll, the moralizing high school principal, warns parents that marijuana is more dangerous than opium and heroin. Those who smoke the drug are depicted as instantly addicted and crazed.

We laugh at these scare tactics today. But the government has not ended its efforts to modify behavior by using campaigns of exaggerations and lies. A new congressional report has found that the nation's most popular government-funded abstinence-only sex education programs are peppered with inaccuracies that misinform young people about the risks of sex, contraceptives and abortion. It's Reefer Madness all over again. Or, as one research group called it, "Scared Chaste."

One aspect of President Bush's continuing efforts to direct our tax money to religiously affiliated groups is the push for a massive expansion of federal funding for abstinence-only sex education. During the 2005 fiscal year, the federal government will spend $170-million to support programs that preach that sex is to be reserved for marriage only, and a number of the recipients of those dollars will be faith-based. That's more than double what was spent in 2001.

But unlike Bush's energetic concern over educational accountability and standards reflected in No Child Left Behind, the curricula for abstinence-only sex education programs are not vetted for accuracy. (There was an attempt by Democratic lawmakers in 2002 to require medical accuracy as a condition of receiving money for these programs, but that effort was voted down by Republicans on the House Energy and Commerce Committee.)

So rather than getting the tools they need to make sensible choices about their health and bodies, young people are being told outrageous lies, such as how 5 to 10 percent of women who have abortions will become sterile (when there's no correlation between elective abortions and sterility) or how condoms fail to prevent HIV transmission 31 percent of the time (when a study in the New England Journal of Medicine found that consistent condom use resulted in a zero transmission rate.)

The congressional study, conducted by the Special Investigations Division of the Committee on Government Reform at the behest of Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., found "false, misleading, or distorted information about reproductive health" in more than 80 percent of the most popular abstinence-only curricula.

The result is not that young people are scared off sex until marriage. (Even most of those who take virginity pledges engage in premarital sex.) It's that they don't bother taking precautions against sexually transmitted diseases or pregnancy. They are led to believe that condoms are ineffective.

"We hear from kids all the time about the myths they've been fed," said Marilyn Anderson, director of education at Planned Parenthood of Southwest and Central Florida. "The whole idea is to scare kids and make them think they'll get HIV by having sex. But what's walking into our clinic says that kids are having sex, just without condoms."

Although the federal government has determinedly refused to study whether any correlation exists between teaching abstinence and actual abstinence, the social science that does exist demonstrates very little positive impact. The handful of states that have studied it found no long-term success in delaying sexual initiation. Instead, some state program evaluators said the programs' lack of information on pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases was leading to dangerous attitudes and behaviors.

Bush's push for abstinence-only education is a way to pander to his base. According to Adrienne Verrilli, director of communications at the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States, the purveyors of these programs are often connected to the antiabortion movement.

It's no surprise, then, that the curricula have also been found to mix religion and science in ways to promote an antiabortion agenda. One course described a blastocyst as a "tiny baby" that "snuggles" into the uterus. Another called a 43-day-old fetus a "thinking person."

In Louisiana, a state-sponsored Web site tells young people that withholding sex until marriage makes one "really, truly, "cool' in God's eyes." And in Florida, the Pinellas Pregnancy Center received more than $300,000 in 2003 and about $200,000 in 2004 in taxpayer money to spread an abstinence-only message in public school health classrooms. They reach between 5,000 and 6,000 students a year this way, according to program coordinator Linda Daniels. The center describes itself as "a faith-based organization that offers a Christian response to the issue of abortion."

Insanity has been described as doing the same thing under the same conditions and expecting differing results. The government is once again squandering its money on falsehoods, wild exaggerations and scare tactics that have young people either snickering or ignoring the message. Now that's madness.

Dostoevsky · 12-12-2004, 03:08 PM

Interesting article tecoyah... I don't know why our government continues to use our tax money so ineffectively on these scare tactics. I wish our society was more open to factual sex talk, especially to impressionable youths who really need the facts. I think that conservative christian views get stressed way more than they should in our government and in our schools. I hate it when government tells us what we should think.

AquaFox · 12-12-2004, 04:41 PM

schools and the goverment arn't allowed to force politics or religion onto us... but they are allowed to force views on sexuality onto us by doing this stuff...

this goes for gay marriage too, they refuse to preach religion and stuff onto us... but there doing it with sexuality???

xxSquirtxx · 12-12-2004, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dostoevsky

I think that conservative christian views get stressed way more than they should in our government and in our schools. I hate it when government tells us what we should think.

Uhhh..maybe in West Virginia, but you surely haven't been paying attention to what's been happening in public schools. Secularism reigns supreme.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquaFox

schools and the goverment arn't allowed to force politics or religion onto us... but they are allowed to force views on sexuality onto us by doing this stuff...

this goes for gay marriage too, they refuse to preach religion and stuff onto us... but there doing it with sexuality???

Word. I say, be consistent in keeping the government out of our bedrooms. If the schools can't tell your little Sally that the only way to avoid STDs and pregnancy is to keep her pants on and legs closed (abstinence), then the school shouldn't tell my little Johnny how to fuck another boy up the ass "safely."

p.s. I know the article was about fallacies that were being taught, which is completely wrong. I seem to remember that the facts about that were skewed in some way. If I can find the article I read about it, I'll post it.

lukethebandgeek · 12-12-2004, 06:38 PM

I think that abstinence only programs only belong in the private school system. As far as I care, you can teach anything in a private school. I had abstinece only sex ed, and I had watched enough Mtv and listened to enough Loveline to figure out that I had to wrap it up.

The thing about teens, is that whilst some of them may be responsible enough to make thier own decisions, most are not. The problem is that a good chunk of these kids will be drawn to sexual encounters, and not necessarily relaize that what they do will end in pregnancy or herpes. Kids need to know that if they're going to do something which really isn't inherently evil, that they should do it in a manner that doesn't create unwanted babies that might get aborted, and/or spread disease.

If you want to stop abortions, teach proper sex ed.

This post was a bit disjointed. I just kind of typed as I went.

Slavakion · 12-12-2004, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukethebandgeek

If you want to stop abortions, teach proper sex ed.

Damn straight. If you're telling people that condoms are only 1/3% effective, then they're gonna say "ah, fuck it. Might as well use a piece of seaweed."

I hate to say it, but I'm glad to live in a blue state.
/not a political flame

xxSquirtxx · 12-12-2004, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slavakion

I hate to say it, but I'm glad to live in a blue state.
/not a political flame

Well, news flash....I'm in a red state, and when my son was in middle school (public), they did NOT teach abstinence.

World's King · 12-12-2004, 07:07 PM

I took a girls virginity on Thursday. She's 21.

Just thought I'd share.

JStrider · 12-12-2004, 07:16 PM

i got a sex education in california... it heavily emphasized abstinence... but it also told us all about contraceptives... how to properly use em... and how effective they were... i remember them saying that they were only 85% successful at preventing aids cuz the aid virus was small enough to slip thru microscopic paths thru the latex... said when used correctly condoms were 98% effective...

i'm glad i didnt get an abstinence only education... ive talked to people here in TX that did... its pretty frightening about how ignorant about some sex things they can be...

here in lubbock they have a really high STD rate... and they teach abstinence only... i wonder if there are any studies looking for corelation...

Slavakion · 12-13-2004, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxSquirtxx

Well, news flash....I'm in a red state, and when my son was in middle school (public), they did NOT teach abstinence.

Well, I didn't mean that every red state teaches only abstinence. I myself was taught (among other things) abstinence. Ah, shit. Now look what I've gotten into.

Daoust · 12-13-2004, 12:06 PM

I don't take issue with your schools teaching abstinence. And it follows logically that Christian groups would be the main educating, financing and driving force behind the teaching of abstinence in schools. If the issue you're most upset with is the intermingling of the religious and secular, I can see your point. But in and of itself there shouldn't be that much oppositiong to teaching kids that it's okay to 'not have sex', even if their motives are religious in nature.

TexanAvenger · 12-13-2004, 01:18 PM

I can't speak for any other areas, but I know that when the issue was raised here somewhat recently, the Wake County School Board here kept the curriculum to abstinence only before a heterosexual, monogamous marriage. There's a difference between saying it's okay not to have sex and saying that you can't have sex, period. As it is, the system here isn't being at all open-minded, factual, or even very smart. Nearly everybody I've talked to about sex-ed already knows a helluva lot more than the class is teaching and views the whole thing as a joke because it's so close-minded while it simultaneously lies about facts.

When I rant to my dad about this, because I took sex-ed in Wake County and live there now, he just says, "Well, what else're they gonna teach?" (Sometimes I wonder if my lineage actually intersects with his...)

Maybe they could start teaching that having sex before marriage is actually pretty common. Maybe they could teach more about contraceptives so that kids actually know about them and how to use them as opposed to being totally ignorant of them and having unprotected sex. And instead of telling Johnny that sex before marriage is going to ruin his life, maybe they could try pointing out that sex is a healthy part of any long-term relationship, but should be taken just as seriously. It's not like I'm advocating that they teach sexual positions in school, I just want them to tell the truth and be open-minded to the fact that accepting pre-marital sex is not at all the same as advocating for it.

rickscales · 12-14-2004, 06:47 PM

A bit off-topic:

Because AIDS and pregnancies are such rare cases after condom use, the "98% effective" label on AIDS/pregnancy tests can be misleading.

If one tests positive on either of these tests, there is not a 2% chance that one is actually positive. Because there are SO many more false-positives than actual pregnancies or AIDS cases, the chances of a false-positive are actually very high. (I don't remember the correct number, but it may have been something like 70% of all positives are false.)

Don't ask me to explain my math, my teacher did it in class and I didn't take notes.

Hard8s · 12-14-2004, 07:46 PM

I would rather teach kids how to use condoms than let them think that the "pull out method" is a contraceptive. The "Pull Out Method" is not a Contraceptive!!!

With the little sex ed that is taught, its a wonder we are not like China, with a billion people.

TexanAvenger · 12-14-2004, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hard8s

I would rather teach kids how to use condoms than let them think that the "pull out method" is a contraceptive. The "Pull Out Method" is not a Contraceptive!!!

With the little sex ed that is taught, its a wonder we are not like China, with a billion people.

Amen Hard8s. Amen.

bookiebye · 12-15-2004, 05:07 AM

Sex education is is a necessary part of any youths developement. However, sex education should be left to the educators, and not dictated by government policy. In this case we are educating our children based on a political agenda not on what is best for the developement of the youth.

The really sad thing is that the people running the show are showing such little regard and confidence in our children that they have decided the course of action, which has largely been unsuccessful, rather than providing all the options so they can make the most informed decision for each individual. If we are doing our jobs as parents and guides, the young people will be prepared to make the right decision for their lives.

Don't dictate, educate.

12-12-2004, 02:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Virgin Maddness Title Gotcha didn't it. Seriously.....why the hell do we feel the need to lie to Kids, as if they are too stupid to figure it out for themselves. This just pisses me off, as it is likely to make a bad situation....significantly worse, and those in power are too damn Christian to see beyond thier collective asses. http://sptimes.com/2004/12/12/Column...ching_on.shtml Fact-free teaching on sex By ROBYN E. BLUMNER, Times Perspective Columnist Published December 12, 2004 The 1938 government antimarijuana propaganda film Reefer Madness is still watched today for its campy excesses. Dr. Carroll, the moralizing high school principal, warns parents that marijuana is more dangerous than opium and heroin. Those who smoke the drug are depicted as instantly addicted and crazed. We laugh at these scare tactics today. But the government has not ended its efforts to modify behavior by using campaigns of exaggerations and lies. A new congressional report has found that the nation's most popular government-funded abstinence-only sex education programs are peppered with inaccuracies that misinform young people about the risks of sex, contraceptives and abortion. It's Reefer Madness all over again. Or, as one research group called it, "Scared Chaste." One aspect of President Bush's continuing efforts to direct our tax money to religiously affiliated groups is the push for a massive expansion of federal funding for abstinence-only sex education. During the 2005 fiscal year, the federal government will spend $170-million to support programs that preach that sex is to be reserved for marriage only, and a number of the recipients of those dollars will be faith-based. That's more than double what was spent in 2001. But unlike Bush's energetic concern over educational accountability and standards reflected in No Child Left Behind, the curricula for abstinence-only sex education programs are not vetted for accuracy. (There was an attempt by Democratic lawmakers in 2002 to require medical accuracy as a condition of receiving money for these programs, but that effort was voted down by Republicans on the House Energy and Commerce Committee.) So rather than getting the tools they need to make sensible choices about their health and bodies, young people are being told outrageous lies, such as how 5 to 10 percent of women who have abortions will become sterile (when there's no correlation between elective abortions and sterility) or how condoms fail to prevent HIV transmission 31 percent of the time (when a study in the New England Journal of Medicine found that consistent condom use resulted in a zero transmission rate.) The congressional study, conducted by the Special Investigations Division of the Committee on Government Reform at the behest of Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., found "false, misleading, or distorted information about reproductive health" in more than 80 percent of the most popular abstinence-only curricula. The result is not that young people are scared off sex until marriage. (Even most of those who take virginity pledges engage in premarital sex.) It's that they don't bother taking precautions against sexually transmitted diseases or pregnancy. They are led to believe that condoms are ineffective. "We hear from kids all the time about the myths they've been fed," said Marilyn Anderson, director of education at Planned Parenthood of Southwest and Central Florida. "The whole idea is to scare kids and make them think they'll get HIV by having sex. But what's walking into our clinic says that kids are having sex, just without condoms." Although the federal government has determinedly refused to study whether any correlation exists between teaching abstinence and actual abstinence, the social science that does exist demonstrates very little positive impact. The handful of states that have studied it found no long-term success in delaying sexual initiation. Instead, some state program evaluators said the programs' lack of information on pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases was leading to dangerous attitudes and behaviors. Bush's push for abstinence-only education is a way to pander to his base. According to Adrienne Verrilli, director of communications at the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States, the purveyors of these programs are often connected to the antiabortion movement. It's no surprise, then, that the curricula have also been found to mix religion and science in ways to promote an antiabortion agenda. One course described a blastocyst as a "tiny baby" that "snuggles" into the uterus. Another called a 43-day-old fetus a "thinking person." In Louisiana, a state-sponsored Web site tells young people that withholding sex until marriage makes one "really, truly, "cool' in God's eyes." And in Florida, the Pinellas Pregnancy Center received more than $300,000 in 2003 and about $200,000 in 2004 in taxpayer money to spread an abstinence-only message in public school health classrooms. They reach between 5,000 and 6,000 students a year this way, according to program coordinator Linda Daniels. The center describes itself as "a faith-based organization that offers a Christian response to the issue of abortion." Insanity has been described as doing the same thing under the same conditions and expecting differing results. The government is once again squandering its money on falsehoods, wild exaggerations and scare tactics that have young people either snickering or ignoring the message. Now that's madness. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha Last edited by tecoyah; 12-12-2004 at 04:03 PM..

12-12-2004, 03:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
Dostoevsky Psycho Location: Macon, GA	Interesting article tecoyah... I don't know why our government continues to use our tax money so ineffectively on these scare tactics. I wish our society was more open to factual sex talk, especially to impressionable youths who really need the facts. I think that conservative christian views get stressed way more than they should in our government and in our schools. I hate it when government tells us what we should think. __________________ Pride is the recognition of the fact that you are your own highest value and, like all of man’s values, it has to be earned. It is not advisable, James, to venture unsolicited opinions. You should spare yourself the embarrassing discovery of their exact value to your listener. Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

12-12-2004, 04:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
AquaFox WaterDog	schools and the goverment arn't allowed to force politics or religion onto us... but they are allowed to force views on sexuality onto us by doing this stuff... this goes for gay marriage too, they refuse to preach religion and stuff onto us... but there doing it with sexuality??? __________________ ...AquaFox...

12-12-2004, 06:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
lukethebandgeek Chicks dig the Saxaphone Location: Nowheresville OH	I think that abstinence only programs only belong in the private school system. As far as I care, you can teach anything in a private school. I had abstinece only sex ed, and I had watched enough Mtv and listened to enough Loveline to figure out that I had to wrap it up. The thing about teens, is that whilst some of them may be responsible enough to make thier own decisions, most are not. The problem is that a good chunk of these kids will be drawn to sexual encounters, and not necessarily relaize that what they do will end in pregnancy or herpes. Kids need to know that if they're going to do something which really isn't inherently evil, that they should do it in a manner that doesn't create unwanted babies that might get aborted, and/or spread disease. If you want to stop abortions, teach proper sex ed. This post was a bit disjointed. I just kind of typed as I went. __________________ Yes, band camp is all it's cracked up to be. So I like Chrono... So what?

12-12-2004, 07:07 PM	#8 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	I took a girls virginity on Thursday. She's 21. Just thought I'd share. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

12-12-2004, 07:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
JStrider Poo-tee-weet? Location: The Woodlands, TX	i got a sex education in california... it heavily emphasized abstinence... but it also told us all about contraceptives... how to properly use em... and how effective they were... i remember them saying that they were only 85% successful at preventing aids cuz the aid virus was small enough to slip thru microscopic paths thru the latex... said when used correctly condoms were 98% effective... i'm glad i didnt get an abstinence only education... ive talked to people here in TX that did... its pretty frightening about how ignorant about some sex things they can be... here in lubbock they have a really high STD rate... and they teach abstinence only... i wonder if there are any studies looking for corelation... __________________ -=JStrider=- ~Clatto Verata Nicto

12-13-2004, 12:06 PM	#11 (permalink)
Daoust "I'm sorry. What was the question?" Location: Paradise Regained	I don't take issue with your schools teaching abstinence. And it follows logically that Christian groups would be the main educating, financing and driving force behind the teaching of abstinence in schools. If the issue you're most upset with is the intermingling of the religious and secular, I can see your point. But in and of itself there shouldn't be that much oppositiong to teaching kids that it's okay to 'not have sex', even if their motives are religious in nature. __________________ I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys

12-13-2004, 01:18 PM	#12 (permalink)
TexanAvenger Born-Again New Guy Location: Unfound.	I can't speak for any other areas, but I know that when the issue was raised here somewhat recently, the Wake County School Board here kept the curriculum to abstinence only before a heterosexual, monogamous marriage. There's a difference between saying it's okay not to have sex and saying that you can't have sex, period. As it is, the system here isn't being at all open-minded, factual, or even very smart. Nearly everybody I've talked to about sex-ed already knows a helluva lot more than the class is teaching and views the whole thing as a joke because it's so close-minded while it simultaneously lies about facts. When I rant to my dad about this, because I took sex-ed in Wake County and live there now, he just says, "Well, what else're they gonna teach?" (Sometimes I wonder if my lineage actually intersects with his...) Maybe they could start teaching that having sex before marriage is actually pretty common. Maybe they could teach more about contraceptives so that kids actually know about them and how to use them as opposed to being totally ignorant of them and having unprotected sex. And instead of telling Johnny that sex before marriage is going to ruin his life, maybe they could try pointing out that sex is a healthy part of any long-term relationship, but should be taken just as seriously. It's not like I'm advocating that they teach sexual positions in school, I just want them to tell the truth and be open-minded to the fact that accepting pre-marital sex is not at all the same as advocating for it.

12-14-2004, 06:47 PM	#13 (permalink)
rickscales Upright Location: Little Rock	A bit off-topic: Because AIDS and pregnancies are such rare cases after condom use, the "98% effective" label on AIDS/pregnancy tests can be misleading. If one tests positive on either of these tests, there is not a 2% chance that one is actually positive. Because there are SO many more false-positives than actual pregnancies or AIDS cases, the chances of a false-positive are actually very high. (I don't remember the correct number, but it may have been something like 70% of all positives are false.) Don't ask me to explain my math, my teacher did it in class and I didn't take notes.

12-14-2004, 07:46 PM	#14 (permalink)
Hard8s Addict Location: Wherever I am!	I would rather teach kids how to use condoms than let them think that the "pull out method" is a contraceptive. The "Pull Out Method" is not a Contraceptive!!! With the little sex ed that is taught, its a wonder we are not like China, with a billion people. __________________ If ignorance is bliss, then wipe this smile off my face!

12-15-2004, 05:07 AM	#16 (permalink)
bookiebye Upright	Sex education is is a necessary part of any youths developement. However, sex education should be left to the educators, and not dictated by government policy. In this case we are educating our children based on a political agenda not on what is best for the developement of the youth. The really sad thing is that the people running the show are showing such little regard and confidence in our children that they have decided the course of action, which has largely been unsuccessful, rather than providing all the options so they can make the most informed decision for each individual. If we are doing our jobs as parents and guides, the young people will be prepared to make the right decision for their lives. Don't dictate, educate. __________________ Get it done!