So are we supposed to feel sorry for this girl?
 

http://www.komotv.com/stories/34282.htm

'It Has Ruined Me For Life'

December 6, 2004

By Keith Eldridge

PIERCE COUNTY, WA - A local college student says a stalker got into her home and took nude photos of her using her computer's web camera.

It all started when the victim started talking with her alleged cyberstalker in a chat room on the internet.

She says that initial contact turned into cyberstalking.

"And it hurts to know that your privacy is taken away, especially for a young girl," she said. "To have sleepless nights and to be scared that there's a stalker out there."

The young woman told police the person hacked into her webcam which is in her bedroom. Then, he got pictures of her naked.

"And then from that I'm assuming they just saw me on webcam and they decoded it to see me while I was changing."

She says the cyberstalker sent those pictures to her boyfriend and only then did she find out she was being watched.

Fellow students are stunned.

"That's just scary that people can hack in from other computers into someone else's computer," said one woman.

Web cameras look so innocent you almost forget they're there. But with technology the way it is, and hackers the way they are, when you least expect it someone may be watching.

We've seen these cameras used as spycams before. A Bothell family suspected someone was in their house while they were away. They activated their webcam from across the country and caught a burglar in the act.

Then, there are wireless cameras designed for your own private use. But as KOMO 4 News showed you they transmit pictures for anyone to see if they have the right spying technology.

Computer safety expert Ryan O'Hagan says he's seen this invasion of privacy before. "It's like they're sitting right here."

But, simple safeguards can keep crooks out of your web cam.

"I think just basically having a firewall, anti-virus, a strong password on your machine can keep these thieves out and can keep them from getting into your computer, and watching you at home," said O'Hagan.

KOMO 4 News asked the victim in this case if she will ever use a webcam again. "Never, it has ruined me for life," she said.

She hopes by speaking out others will be protected against cyberstalkers.


It seems to me that if you leave a webcam active on your desktop and don't secure your pc, it's about the same as printing naked photos of yourself and leaving them on the sidewalk. The problem I have is that this woman is "ruined for life" - just a touch on the dramatic side.

I feel sorry for her. No one deserves to have their privacy violated in this way. It is not her fault some jack off did this to her.

I feel for her and all.. but what was she doing naked in her room anyways?

I don't know if I agree with your analogy. She didn't leave her webcam there for anybody to view, the guy had to hack into her computer and view it. If somebody breaks into your house because you only have a chinky door lock and no dead bolt, it's still breaking and entering, isn't it?
I'd say a better analogy would be a peeping tom, taking pictures from outside her room in a tree.
I do feel bad for her, and there's no doubt that this will affect her for the rest of her life.

Of COURSE we should feel sorry for her.

What kind of ridiculous question is that?

It's analogous to saying "Should we feel sorry for rape victims?" or "Should we feel sorry for those who have their houses robbed?"

If I walked up to you on the street and smashed you in the face, should people feel sorry for you? Yes, they should. Why? Because you did nothing wrong, whilst I abused you and broke the law.


Sheesh...


Mr Mephisto

I would think of the places to be naked, the room works... Especially given that a reasonable amount of privacy should be expected there (which isn't the case here).

I feel for her, because from what I gather, the "stalker" hacked her computer and caused her webcam to take pictures of her when she didn't intend.

I am not sure how this is possible, as I'm not familiar with what hackers can do "distantly" in terms of using a webcam, but if she has her webcam turned off and he someone hacked it and turned it on, then yea, I feel for her.

Even if she had it on and he somehow grabbed the pictures, I still feel for her, but maybe not as much, because she had to have it on to begin with.

I don't know if the webcam was on all the time, and the hacker accessed it and took the pictures, or if it was off and he somehow turned it on "distantly." Either way, definitely an invasion of privacy, and I think she is certainly justified in thinking as much.

Ironically, her speaking out may ultimately "ruin her life" more than not, seeing that it's going to get a whole lot more exposure now...

I don't know how you could not feel sorry for someone who was very much taken advantage of in this case. She is ignorant ... that much is plain. But that doesn't take away from the fact that this goob-shoot took complete advantage of her ignorance. Yeah... I do feel sorry for her.

one question, whats up with the sending of the pictures to the boyfriend?
i feel sorry for her but that statement makes this look a little fishy, like were not hearing the whole story

I always like to take it right back to the source. If the camera were not there , by her own doing, we wouldn't have read about her.

Sometimes when the opportunity is there to abuse, people take it, those that want to. But where does the fault originate? Not the blame. The fault? With whomever made the decision for a webcam in the first place. Doesn't make it right, or maybe it does to some, but it gives you a precise sense of where the trail of bread crumbs began the journey and the subsequent ruination of this womens life.

This sounds like it could be a hit t.v reality show.

The simplest script kiddie programs have been able to do this for years. The average person knows nothing about computer security and doesn't care, either. This is a perfect example of why you should be careful, because people are out there who who habve no qualms about violating your privacy. Hopefully she learned from it instead of just beign traumatized.

This is why I always keep the cover on mine closed.

I see both sides of it. I feel sorry in that it happened to her. As was said before, she's clearly ignorant, so it's not "her fault," exactly.

That said, however, we have no idea how much of the "hacking" part of the story is true. Most girls I PERSONALLY know of this temprament leave either AIM or MSN Messenger on ALL THE TIME. Since those both have BUILT IN webcam functions that can be set to AUTOMATICALLY ACCEPT calls from ANYONE, then what's to say she didn't leave it on? What's to say the guy didn't WRITE HER AN IM and SEE IT?

There is no proof that he "hacked" the computer. The girl wouldn't know hacking if it hit her in the face on the proverbial street. Why are we to take her word over this guy's?

Not to mention that the guy was in contact with her boyfriend, which seems to indicate that he was close to them in some way. There's a good chance that he's on the girl's buddy list. They probably know each other personally. There's definitely more to this story than what was written.

So I feel sorry for the girl, but I think in all probability it's partially-totally her fault. The guy, for all we know, had no malicious intent.

Your analogy is completely out of line with the circumstances described in the story.

1. She invited this guy to chat with her;

2. She allowed herself to be taken advantage of;

3. He took advantage

So, in the context of that, I would ask "Should we feel sorry for someone who was raped by a man she invited into her house?"

Absolutely.

But how about "Should we feel sorry for people who leave their houses standing wide open and get robbed?"

I don't think so.

She left the pc unprotected and the webcam powered on continuously. How can she be guaranteed any privacy under those circumstances? Would it be any different if someone stood outside her window and took pictures of her naked when she left the shades up?

Sorry, I can't find pity for people who invite stupidity and then can't understand why they are taken advantage of.

Does it enter your mind that she may not be technically astute as you? Does that make you feel superior? Most web-cam users would not be aware that their cam is powered by the USB cable and can be active when they are not using it.

That doesn't mean you should belittle them. Or accuse them of stupidity.

I'm quite sure that you, like all of us, are "stupid" when it comes to certain subjects. Maybe you don't think so, but I do.


Mr Mephisto

Perhaps I should clarify, because I think we're arguing semantics. I was sincerely sad when I read this story. My problem is that I can't find pity for this woman who says she was victimized because she did everything short of take the pictures and email them to this guy.

I don't think it matters what level of technical saavy she possesses. And no, I don't feel superior. I think if you don't know that when your webcam is connected there are images transmitting, you don't get to be "ruined for life" when you find that out.

And I didn't "accuse her of stupidity" - I said she invited it. Again, back to the open door and the thief. Why do they sell door locks? Who figured that one out - someone who got ripped off once, maybe?

And yes, I'm stupid about a myriad of things. But when my stupidity causes problems for me, I usually accept that I had a part in that. For example, when I parked my car on the side of the street and someone smashed into it, it was my fault for parking it there.

I guess that level of self-responsiblity might be stretch...

Well, at least you don't sound as pompous as I thought you did initially. :)

I still disagree with your lack of empathy with this girl, but at least you have your reasons for so thinking.

Mr Mephisto

Agreed. Callous and insensitive to be sure, but not pompous. :D

Not surprisingly, I'm in the middle of a pretty big challenge where I'm trying to see my part in a situation where I feel completely victimized. It's an uncomfortable place, and leaves me ready to find others to share my pain...

HAHAHA

Mr Mephisto

If you aren't competent to understand how it works (from a user perspeective) and what it can do, then you should not have one.

Tough shit.

It's human nature to feel sorry for her. She had bad things happen to her that she was unprepared to guard against. However, ignorance is not a valid excuse or defense. She willingly entered the chat room, developed a relationship with this "cyberstalker" and from what I've read did not take steps to isolate and protect her system and thus unprotecting herself. By installing and using such devices we accept a certain degree of personal risk and must accept the responsibility to protect ourselves. Help is out there, all we have to do is ask how to secure ourselves.

It seems to me that this girl went in search of adventure, found some fun on the internet, went a bit too far and got burned. Possibility???

Question: If her computer was actually 'hacked' from another source wouldn't there be some way to investigate this? A record of commands given to the system and where they actually came from?

I feel for her no body should have there privacy violated.

I don't have a webcam, but if I did, I'd always keep it closed when not using it. To me, that's common sense. I feel bad that this happened but I don't really feel sorry for her.

The first sentence of the story is highly misleading:

Well, no, not really. He got into her computer. This sentence implies he actually went into her bedroom and turned on the webcam. That's different.

As an IT geek myself, I find myself questioning the whole hacker story as well.

Hell, I find myself questioning her entire story.

She meets a guy online, who ends up being a cyberstalker, and manages to "hack" her computer to get compromising photos of her?

Personally, I call shenanagins.

I see it as one of two possibilities - either she's dumb enough to have the webcam running 24/7 (and I know some seriously computer-stupid people who have figured out how to turn off a webcam) - or she was flirting and/or fooling around online, sent the photos/exposed herself to him live, and since everyone found out about it is now claimng this story to protect her "innocence".

There is the whole secondary question in this as well - where were the parents at? I know I have a daughter approaching chatroom-age myself, and I can state fully that while she has a computer with internet access, it sure as hell isn't in her room with a webcam attached. Hell, personally, I won't allow a webcam in my house - not for fears of hacking or anything, but to protect my kids from the type of nudity stupidity referenced in this article.

I dont believe her. Sounds more like she got caught cybering/posing what have you, and is trying make excuses. Occam's razor.

what is she doing meeting people from the internet when she has a boyfriend? Granted it doesn't mention the nature of the chatroom where she met this guy, but if he became a cyber stalker, I'm guessing she wasn't looking for scuba-diving partners. If her story is true, then her privacy was violated and the guy should be prosecuted; but my logical side leans more towards Janey's theory.

And that first line is incredibly misleading, I thought at first that he actually broke in and set her webcam to take photos.

Time for her to invest in a new webcam... sometimes the simplest inventions provide the best solutions...
http://www.cedhart.ch/images/qucickc...0016_thumb.jpg

"like were not hearing the whole story"

Very possible. For instance this could have been a cyber affair gone bad. She could have sent these pictures to her "cyber boyfriend". When he wanted to move things along and she didn't he got mad. Sent the pics to the boyfriend for revenge.

When the boyfriend finds out, instead of taking responsibilty for her actions she lies. Plays the "victim" card and gets the sympathy. You can't rule out her taking these photos herself. There's more to this story me thinks.

I've got a hard time believing her sad tale. Should we feel sorry for her if it's true? Sure. But sometimes lessons learned are tough ones.

I spent quite a number of hours a day in TFP's chatroom - I'm not looking to hook up with anyone - -many of the folks in there are in relationships and I'd hope aren't looking to hook up. Just because she met someone and chatted with them - doesn't mean that anything had to come of it.
---------------------------
Regardless of what her intentions were, and why she was meeting people... Quite frankly, I don't care... But - when you are chatting with someone on the internet -- especially if you are exchanging pictures, it's a huge violation of one's person if the person you are chatting with shares that detail - -and especially photos with another person.

I 2nd what mal said....chatrooms dont automatically mean "hookup" I talk to people online in all sorts of chat room variations all the time and Oh Gosh!!! Dave doesnt mind....imagine that :lol:

It is a sad day when sympathy is begrudged because someone took advantage of someone else's innocence.

I'm curious to hear the "cyberstalker"'s side of the story and all the technical details of this "hack". We all know how the media, and non-technical people like to use the word "hack" to explain a whole variety of things these days. I don't feel that short story provides enough facts for me to have an opinion of whether she bought it upon herself or if she is totally a victim here. I feel numb to the whole thing until i hear the whole truth.

We don't know the story behind the news report. We make fancy theories that isolate her situation from ours so that we can think to ourselves "It'll never happen to me". What if she were really hacked, someone just turned on the webcam when she wasn't on the computer? I left my cam pointed at my room all the time. that someone could have just turned it on at any moment with enough computer experience pisses me off.

Being responsible seems to be very unimportant in today's world. Why couldn't she just freaking unplug the damn thing while she's not using it? Or say... turn it off? I feel sorry for kids when something bad happens to them, because they usually don't have control over situations and usually don't know better. I find it much harder to feel sorry for an adult in any situation.

Well she is a college student. Not exactly a child. And that first line is extremely misleading regarding this story.

wtf? This to me doesn't sound like someone who would know what hacking is.

Yes, she was violated.

I consider myself a smart individual, but I never would have guessed that you can hack into someone's webcam. If I had one, it would probably be on all the time. lol
If this girl's story is true, I do feel sorry for her circumstances. I am leaning towards the fact that she is making it up to cover her tracks. That seems move believable right now.

I HAXED J00R GIBSON!!

seriously, it's a one-sided story. Maybe she was the victim, maybe she was just completely ignorant. What will I take from this story... Well, I'll only be worried if said "hacker/stalker" gets out of his sentence/punishment, if any, and is offered a position with some sort of government agency for the purposes of national security.

Until then I'll just plan on tossing my pants and underwear on top of my webcam (if I ever get one) when I plan on getting naked in my room.

I didn't mean to insinuate that all chatrooms are for hooking up, as that is surely not the case... I'm almost always on #tfp and I'm not trying to hook up with anyone (sorry!); what i meant was that there was something in the dialogue between her and her would-be cyber stalker that got him interested enough to do such a thing (if he in fact did break into her computer). Whether it was overt or unintentional is unclear, and we can only speculate what the course of events was.

In any case, the article is vague at best, and the way it's written makes me feel it's an unreliable source. I just checked the link and laughed when i saw the photo with the webcam actually had one of those lens-blocking arms.

for a while a ran my webcam 24/7... i would just put the lil cover over the lense whenever i cared if people were watchin or not... i let my roomie know he could do the same...

the cover is there for a reason... use it...

but sucks that those pics made it out to the internet and are causing problems for her...

I agree with several others that she is full of it, although that may not be the case, I just can't see otherwise while she is sitting there naked chatting to some guy with a web cam on. Nope, sorry, don't buy it. Maybe she made it up so her boyfriend wouldn't break up with her for getting naked for someone online.

Even if it were true though, I still wouldn't feel sorry for her....quite frankly, I couldn't care less.

Well it sounds like he just hacked the PC and webcam and took pictures of her while she was walking around naked. It all depends upon the pictures themselves.

If she's posing, then obviously she knew what was happening. If she's sitting around naked picking her ass and eating her toe-nails, then I doubt she realized she was being watched.


Mr Mephisto