Racist orders coffee in Glasgow.
 

Linky
:lol:

People are idiots. :D

Simply leaves me speechless. My sociology prof refuses to be "sexist" in any way, and is always PC. He actually calls freshman "freshpeople". It amazes me how people blow things way out of proportion.

That asshole!! How dare he order black coffee?? It's African-American coffee!!!

Oh and I should point out that the word "allegedly" was used, and the source should be considered, um, dubious at best. But even if this piece fails as accurate and truthful news-reporting, it could double up and be used as satire! A win-win situation.

It's sad that these people cannot see their own complete absurdity. I estimate nothing less than 100% of responses to this thread to agree that it's a ridiculous situation, thus clearly marking the coffee shop staff as complete imbeciles.

But I must rescind a little.. it DOES sound like a rouse.

lol man I want to go to that coffee shop and order a cup of black coffee and see if they would refuse a black man his black coffee. lol

Two ways to go about ordering black coffee. Just order coffee and when they ask if you want cream or sugar say no. Or say ask for a cup of coffee and when they ask how you like it say, like my women, hot and black.

It's only African American if you are in America -- I don't think you can be Afrcan American in Scotland :)

------------
In Australia, the way to get a cup of coffee with milk in it, was to order a flat white... Is that also considered racist -- what if an aboriginal person ordered a flat white.. what's that say?

Hot, black, and RICH.

-Mikey

Thats just rediculous, is it "Peoplekind" as well?

My favorite PC joke is that you have call the mailman a 'person person'. 'Mail' sounds like 'male', and that's sexist, so to be fair it must be a person. And it's not necessarily a man doing the mailing, so it's person too.

Mail man = person person.

maybe in america.. but in Glasgow, Scotland, which is part of the UK?

edit: :) I see mal got to it before me.

What the hell is the world coming to?
Soon all Flinstones recordings will by law have to be recalled to have the words "gay ol' time" removed.

Shortly after the flag will be the blood color, undark, and evening sky. The blue is removed to prevent future predjudice against a possible blue tinted merpeople of the future.

Better make that 99%

Can't you see how insensitive this really is? Black coffee indeed. you are debasing an entire race of people with those two simple, yet oh so sharp words. What is so difficult about ordering Coffee Without Cream? Your mouth has only to form one extra word...two simple sylables...and everyone gets along. Is it really that much to ask?

You do realize, I hope, that I'm being facetious...right? Go back to 100%.

Someone make me a black russian.

Oops. Silly me :p

Alright, go back to call it black coffee :D

These sort of "PC gone mad" stories normally are not what they seem, I would need to know a lot more about it before condemning the coffee shop. Clearly, the term "black" as a description of an object's physical appearance is not necessarily racist.

no, it's humankind. :)

oh? huMANkind? I don't think so. It's huPERSONkind. :rolleyes:

Political correctness is a load of crap.

I disagree, although like anything else it can be carried too far.

There is a lot of language which used to be freely used that was derogatory. For example, it used to be acceptable to call educationally disabled children "retards"... it is no longer acceptable, and I think that's good. Words that are hurtful or offensive should become unacceptable and removed from the public domain. On the margins, there will always be these stories... I looked into this particular one, and all I could find was the same thing that the original poster picked up, from a opinion column in a Scottish tabloid called the Daily Record... and a few blogs quoting it.

I think most people can tell that "black coffee" is not offensive... I think many people do feel - for example - addressing unmarried women as "Miss" is insulting. You have to trust the common sense of the people.

Calling someone a "retard" is just cutting down the term "mental retardation". It is not a "good" thing that PC has totally run amok. If you don't like what I say DON'T LISTEN. Simple as that. And no, its not humankind, its MANKIND. Terms that have existed for THOUSANDS of years should not be changed because of some Fem-nazi bitch that gets offended.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ankind&x=0&y=0
"1 /'man-'kInd, -"kInd/ : the human race : the totality of human beings

the term "mankind" explicitly excludes women, and therefore it is inappropriate. I am not saying people should be prevented by law from saying it if they want, but in the education system, in state literature and so on, the appropriate terms should be used.

Free speech is all well and good, but people also have a right to be protected from offensive speech.

It is not unreasonable for women to be offended by a term that implies that humanity is male - this devalues the contributions of women to the human race, and portrays women as secondary to men.

It is unreasonable to be offended by someone asking for a "black coffee"

Like I said, you will always find people who's opinions are onm either margin... I think the common sense of the people can find a sensible middle ground, and there is a general consensus about what is politically incorrect and what is not.

Out of interest, why do you find it difficult to use the term "humankind", or to call first years "freshpeople". Surely being inclusive is a good thing?

The problem is that there is no offensive intent behind these words or phrases. The only way to be offended by things like that is to go out of your way to be offended by it. When someone says "mankind" or "freshman" they aren't trying to exclude women, they're just using words that have been used to describe these things for years. If the words had actually been used in a derogatory manner that would be one thing, but taking offense when any sensible person can tell that none is intended is just stupid.

OH I have to know... Why am I supposed to be insulted by being addressed as Miss? I can see Old Maid Maleficient as a derogatory term, but when my very southern girlfriend's son calls me Miss Maryellen (because that's how he's taught how to address adult( I think it's charming.

I have never been insulted by Miss in my life -- do I need to start ?

A lot of people feel that, because Miss is the title of an unmarried woman, and Mrs a married woman, it implies that a woman does not enter real adulthood until married.

A male child would correctly be called Master, but once they become an adult they are called "Mr" whether they are married or not.

I have never heard this before --I choose to not be offended by it... :D

"Flat white"? Hey, who says white women can't have "back"? That's offensive!
:lol:

Of course as an Aussie waiter, I also get a few orders for 'long blacks' but that doesn't mean it's too beaucoup. Why uphold stereotypes. :D

I'll take it noir, bereft of emulsion. :hmm:

Also Ms. (pronounced "Mz") is the universal answer to the Miss/Mrs. controversy - plus, it sounds kinda cool.

That is so wrong, on so many levels, it simply defies logic. To begin with;

"Mankind" does not exclude women, first and foremost, its something called THE GOD DAMN ENGLISH LANGUAGE. Mankind is a compound word, and is based on the foundation of the language both you, and I speak. Man, meaning, huMANs, not huPEOPLE but human, and Kind, meaning all of the human race. To say that "mankind" should be People-Kind or any other PC nonsense is just another form of newspeak.

Secondly; In countries where you are free to speak your mind, you can say whatever you damn well please. If I choose to say something you don't like DON'T LISTEN. If you don't want to listen to KKK members, DON'T. That is the freedom you have as well, to NOT listen. If you don't want to listen the NAACP march on washington DC then DON'T. But how dare you try and limit my freedom of speech by saying it "offends" you. Cry me a fucking river, and get over it.

And there is such a thing as tradition, and leaving well alone. We don't need to change our entire language because it offends a feminist, or a liberal, or person who gets offended by everything that someone says.



Also, I love how you don't respond to my original post, in which, I responded to your saying that "calling a person a retard" is bad. However, that is just a shortend term for "mental retardation".

I do understand what the word "retard" means, and I do believe that many people would find it offensive to be described in that way, or for a loved one to be described in that way.

That the term "man" is used to encompass man and women is in itself sexist. Language constantly changes, and certainly should be changed if it is offensive. Many words relating to race and ethnicity were acceptable 100 years ago that are deeply offensive today - this is how language changes.

I certainly dont propose to legally forbid you from using any word unless it is hate speech or inciting violence, but what we do propose, is that the education system, the language of the state be appropriate and politically correct.

If you want to refer to mankind, no one is going to stop you. If - for example - a government form including something like "the person filling this in must confirm if he is employed" that is clearly unacceptable and should be changed. At school, children should be taught to use terms which do not cause offense and which communicate intention in a way that is inclusive and egaliterian. If a school text book gives examples of human interaction and all the examples include white males, this is wrong, and should be changed, because it excludes minority groups and women... this is what we mean by political correctness.

It is not about forbidding free speech, it is about education and shaping language in a way that is appropriate. It is as easy to say "chairperson" as "chairmen" ... so why should we chose to use a sexist word, in favour of a word that is gender neutral?

But couldn't the term chairperson be construed as masculine - -as the word SON is in it - and son is a male... :D and you are excluding women...

To begin with;

If you don't like the word "retard"...to fucking bad. I don't like the word "the" you are never allowed to say when I am around. Once again, if you don't like it, don't listen, or leave. People have the freedom of speech, if you start impending speech based on what "offends" or basically, hurts someones feelings, then that is going to get way out of hand, really fast. Almost like someone being called a racist for asking for BLACK COFFEE! but that would NEVER happen, would it.......oh...wait...

Secondly, yes, language does change, but the ROOTS of words do NOT change. Incase you forget, language has to be based on something, every language in the world has "masculine" and "feminine" words. Do you want to change that as well? Once again, if you don't like the words I use, thats great, don't listen. But do NOT try and push what you think on me.

Third, "hate" speech is the biggest load of bullshit i've ever heard. If you're going to outlaw that, then you better not allow any rap concerts,you better make a new ammedment to the constitution, taking away the right to assemble, and the freedom of speech. EVERY US citizen has the right to say what he or she so desires. I have seen KKK rallies, and I've seen a gay parade, i've seen Neo Nazi's march, and i've seen the black panthers march. I've been present during anti war demonstrations, and i've seen people picket and stike. I've seen people march on abortion clinics, and porn shops. NONE of those people were in the wrong. They all have the right to say what they want, think what they want, and assemble where they want. Once again if you don't like it TO BAD. DON'T LISTEN. Noone forces you to. You have a CHOICE.

Your fourth paragraph is just...wow. First off, not EVERYTHING has to be a multicultural, happy go lucky, all inclusive outlook of the world. It's OK for a TV show to have an all white cast, it's OK for a picture to just have 3 black people in it. Its OK, not EVERYTHING has to be a totally PC thing. You need to realize that in reality, noone really gives a shit about being PC.

And your "shaping" of the language to how you see fit disgusts me. "Chairmen" is a perfectly suitable term. You have to look at the ROOTS of words.
"Woman"
"Man"
Not "Woperson". Get realistic, its our language, and not everything has to be gender neutral. There is something to be said about not changing everything, to please the easily offended few.

The first time I noticed this PC liberal pantywaist bullshit was in grade school. We would read about different people on standardized tests who had names like Yamoshita or Ngumbo or Zning. Traditional English names were hardly found at all.

It really is amazing how certain feel good factions in America will try to inflict their propaganda on the small children who are forced to go to school and listen to it.

This is like refusing to use the word "history" because it has "his" in it. Nevermind that in order to do so one must ignore the etymology of the word which shows it has absolutely NOTHING to do with masculinity or femininity.

I think that's what PC is. It's dumb people thinking they're smart because they see all this "injustice" in our language....only if they were actually intelligent they would know that the "injustice" they see, most of the time, has absolutely no relation to what they think it does.

So, perhaps PC-ness can be blamed on our poor educational system. ;)

Exactly what I was thinking.

Racism is a double standard unfortunately, but it will eventually even out. We are curently still in a backlash, where society had extreme prejudice towards those of african descent and whiplashed to the need to be overly sensitive to absolutely anything that can be construed as racist in any way towards those that are sensitive to the issue.

I will be glad when it does even out, the double standard annoys me. A black comedian making fun of white people is hilarious, a white comedian making fun of black people would be boo'd off stage and banned from performing again.

I went on a politically correct beach bus ride when in australia.
coach drivers (bus drivers) were to be referred to as steering wheel attendants, and getting stuck in the mud was referred to as becoming geographically permanent.

I forget the others, it was all in good fun, and I think the driver did a good job of pointing out many of the absurdities of PC.

if its racist to call someone as "black" then why hasnt the term "white" been dubbed racist?

clearly blacks are brown, and whites are more of a peach color.

Regardless morons :thumbsup:

I may agree with the "retard" statement, because that term has evolved into a derogatory one when used with not retarded people (i.e."Joe (who has no mental disabilities), you're a retard.") However, you may not realize that in in the South, the most politically incorrect place in America,(we call black people "colored" or "black," and that's okay with them) children call every woman "miss" (pronounced mIz). It's actually a mispronounciation of "missus," which means that if they're married or not isn't their business, even if we know if they are or not.

I agree with waltert. If "black" is a racist term, why isn't "white?" Why can't members of minority races be racist??? I just graduated from high school a few months ago, and I noticed that there were plenty of scholarships for women, blacks, Indians, Asians, and Hispanics, but none for middle-class, white males. I want to start a scholarship for just that, but that would be racist. How can you call that racist. It's like slavery (which I am against). It wasn't always just black people, but people sure as hell like to think so. Romans held slaves that were of all sorts of backgrounds, and they were mostly white for the first half of a century. It was just easy for Europeans and Americans in the 17th-19th century to aquire slaves from Africa because we had guns and they didn't.

Is this new? Maybe to the UK. I thought that for at least two decades in the US, people had been forced to use say 'coffee with cream' instead of 'white'.

I'll cite the word NIGGARDLY...

Um....not that I have heard.

The whole thing smacks of urban legend.

(Off to Snopes!)

:hmm: PC has always pissed me off.
The term African-American pisses me off more than anything else. If you are born in America, you are American. End of story.

CampingCarl, these forums are used for intellectual conversation. If you have nothing of value to add to the conversation, don't bother posting. :thumbsup: (sorry mods for stepping in)


Ok, as far as "mankind" is concerned....
We have had many discussions at TFP on the labeling of pretty much everything and how everyone has some gripe about it. We have words to describe gender, race, color, sexual preference, political agenda....the list goes on.

What amazes me is a word like "mankind" is supposed to be inclusive of everyone on the planet without exception, yet there are still people out there that pick this word apart because they associate it with a label.

Retarded is only un-PC because people make it that way. It only became offensive because school children were calling their non-mentally challenged friends "retards" or "tards". So, in an effort to curb the usage of the word, PC Police decide, even though it is part of another clinically and medically appropriate word, to suddenly become offended at an offshoot of the word "mental retardation".

Sure, I do think that our language is constantly changing and new words will continue to be added. If people could just shut the fuck up once in a while and stop being so hypersensitive about a fucking word, this world would be so much more pleasant.

Ummmm yeah no.
Find me a black person under 35 that is ok with being called "colored" by a white person and I'll show you the rarest being on the planet.
Don't call black people colored. Black is fine. Colored...is out along with Negro and Negroid.

Question: Where do you live??? I was born in Ohio and we never would have dreamed of using the term "colored" to describe black people. Here in KY, however, the only terms that black people seem to take offense to are ones that begin with "N." By the way, negroid is a scientific term. There are different mixes of pigments and skeletal builds (i.e. Mongoloid and Caucasoid) that anthropologists seperate humans into. Negroid is one of them.

When I go to starcrap(starbucks) for coffee since there is nothing else and I always tell them "black coffee!" I cant stand cream or sugar but I guess that is me being racist since I will drink black but wont mix it with white!!!

I though "negro" was a Spanish word that meant "black thing"?

Dear sweet Jesus, some people consider the word "black" to be racist??

Hell, my ex's mom still called black people "negros", as this was the proper (read *good*) way to call someone with darker skin.

(God, I hate stupid people...)

Texas. Born and raised. My mom is from Alabama and spent much of my childhood in the summer time in Alabama,Georgia and Mississippi. Most of my mother's family still lives in the deep deep South. And I'm black and no offense but I think I MIGHT have bit better pulse on this than you do about what might offend regarding the usage of those terms.
And yes if you call a younger black person colored they are likely to take it with the same implied insulting nature as the other words you are familiar with. But if you don't believe me go ask some of your black classmates how do they feel about the word "colored" or better yet to get a full sampling go find a board populated mainly by black people register and ask them. I promise you more will agree with me.
Now this isn't imply that 100% of the black populace will have an issue with this. Older black people late late 50s and up likely won't blink at you using it as that's what they were called most of their lives. Blacks that grew to maturity(age 40-50) during the cultural and racial revolution in this country remember being called colored and might not call you on it but they will wonder why you are saying it doublely so if you are young.
I'd say well over 95% of black people under 35 with the percentage getting higher every 2-3 years you do down from that age will balk at you using the term colored. And the younger you get the more likely a borderline violent reaction will occur.
Just trying to educate folks because a lot of the times people say things that can be construed as racist when they honestly do not mean anything behind it. It's not being PC it's just being respectful.
And yes I know what Negroid is and how the term is used but believe me if you walk around calling black people Negroid they won't be too kind to the usage. Just as if you started calling Asian people Mongoloid.

Next thing you know we will be changing the color of an 8-Ball to multi colored. Hockey pucks will soon be changed because someone will be upset that the NHL is racist because of the chasing around and beating the black puck. In bowling, the black bowling ball will be banned because it is symbolic of the white man, "the pins", being oppressive towards the black.

That's how silly I think this whole topic is......

This is only to the whingeing masses. Those who are incapable of grasping the idea that people AREN'T all out to get them.

There are lots of words out there. There are lots of people out there. Someone is bound to be offended by almost anything you say - its only a matter of time. Some words have their origin in racism and sexism. However, some words that have no basis in racism or sexism are being blamed and misconstrued by people who are hyper aware to an unhealthy level.

I think that it would be easier if people took the context of a word's usage and used that context to help them decide if there is malicious intent. To assume malicious intent without proof is inflamatory and obstructive to people getting along. I find being accused of carelessly causing offence through untended racism and sexism to be HIGHLY offensive.

If you take offence at something I say where there was no rude intent, you can be damn sure i'm encouraged to gear the next thing I say to offend you for your stupidity. NEVER accuse me of rudeness if you have no proof that thats what i intended. The assumption is, in itself, much more offensive than anything you have perceived.

Phew…

- I figured being called a racist because you ask a black coffee wasnt really an I.N.T.E.L.L.E.C.T.U.A.L. conversation ... but i may be wrong ... it might be one for you :thumbsup:
- Anyway, who are you ? Regardless ... :thumbsup:
- You can post but I cant express myself :thumbsup:



- You really wrote that on your own ??? Because if you did, according to the previous quoted statement, you might shut the fuck up once in a while and stop being so hypersensitive about the words I used. Then this world would be so much more pleasant

P.S. : nothing personal :thumbsup: take it easy buddy

I think that the heart of a lot of peoples dislike of PC attitudes stems from the concepts laid down in orwell's 1984- change the language to change the way people think- dont educate them, controll them- I myself would like to retain the right to insult and offend freely, and frankly belive that pc is just a whitewash that avoids conflict between different people, and therefore avoids the conflict resoloution that follows- seriously, does anyone on the earth belive that calling a person mentally challenged instead of retarded will cause the person to be more accepted, or not made fun of- wake up people, we need to change the people, not the language they are speaking, and sometimes that means letting them say horrible things first.....

Some people have already touched on this, but I think a lot of the problem people have with these PC-inspired changes is when they are a result of an acquired meaning or connotation, and not the word itself. Retard is one of those, as are many of the various racial terms that have evolved. When one word becomes too "loaded" over time, it is discarded and replaced, with the exact same thing bound to happen again down the line. Obviously "white" is no more inherently racist than "black", but tensions and feelings of inequality outside of the words themselves have contributed to their current level of acceptance. However people decide to use these words, it should be remembered that while we do have the right to free speech, nothing gives us the right to not be offended.
"Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke."
~peace

A rookie anchorwoman (sorry that should be anchorPERSON) once referred to Archbishop Desmond Tutu as an African-American.

He's just plain African darling, now go and make the coffee.

The dumb broad!

I own a coffee joint, most everyone orders by saying "I like a cup of coffe of the day", ofcourse the coffee will be plain without additives, we then ask them if they want some room to add cream, but then for the people who are always looking out for the well being of others, worry about yourself first.

So in NYC a regular coffee will get you coffee with milk and two sugars - does this mean now if I want a black coffee - I must order an irregular coffee?

Maleficent, you're getting warm. The correct terminology is "chairperthing". Similarly, "person" should be replaced by "perthing".

One of my favourites is the word "manned" as in "manned spaceflight" or things like that. "Manned" in this case is derived from a Latin root meaning "hand", and the word basically means "controlled by hand" - nothing sexist about it at all.

One wonders when these ridiculously PC types will start insisting that other languages change their words that "sound or look wrong" to us English-speakers (or rather, to some of us), but that have completely PC-irrelevant meanings in their source language.

Also, I can't help but wonder what overly PC woMEN or feMALES must think of all of this...

Here in Canada the media has agreed to refer the the professionals formerly known as Fishermen as simply "Fishers". The only people not using this word are the actual Fishermen (male and female) who pointed out in vain that a fisher is a bird.

"chairperthing". I love it!

you know... i heard about something similar regarding ordering drinks "straight" or "straight up"... you're supposed to ask for it "neat"...

PC and all of this uber-sensitivity stuff sucks... :(

Noticed a commercial for Wendy's kids meals last night-- and inside the kid's meal you get your choice of Chocolate Milk or White milk... hmmm...

:makes a phone call:
Who the hell do you call to complain about this stuff? Is there a National Society for Offended People?

GOOD GOD GET OVER IT!!!!
really the world is becoming a really really really boring place if this is the way things are going ...... if this is what people have to complain about then they really really need a life!

"...he would only get his cuppa if he used the terminology 'coffee without milk'. I wonder how he managed to ask for white sugar?"

Ummm - Sugar without shoe polish?

Maybe he should have just ordered Nigger Coffee...

Now that I have your attention... Strange Famous is not wrong. There are very good reasons to alter language... Some words once taken for granted are now deemed inappropriate.

It is all well and good for Stare at the Sun to announce, "its something called THE GOD DAMN ENGLISH LANGUAGE"... but the fact is languages are not immutable... they change through usage -- all the time.

Get over the fact that some people prefer to use humankind or mankind or letter carrier or mail man or any of these changes that annoy you.

Time and usage will wash away this petty bickering over a language that doesn't care what any individual thinks.

I don't use the term retard, becuase it pigeonholes people into one idea. For example, you don't describe someone as "he is a black", because a person is more than that. You can describe someone as "he is black". Same thing with the word retard. "He is retarded", is far different then "he is a retard."

*groan*
Geez, how can black be racist when describing coffee? How would you ask for a black tie? or a black pair of shoes. meh. It's really stupid when you can't describe the colour of an object without offending someone.

Here in Aust we use the terms black and white for coffee. I'm curious - if I was visiting the US and forgot the issue when ordering, how would that be seen by locals?

We sorta wonder about stories we hear... of travelling Aussies using the wrong terms in the presence of US umm err "darker-skinned" people.

Sorry, no. People have a right to be offended by offensive speech, but and they may be able to exclude it from certain places as a matter of privacy, but they have no right to be protected from it. And let me pick that bone too: how can you be protected from speech? What damage can speech do you? Seriously, if one does not believe in onesself, I suppose, then speech which reinforces their peceived shortcomings might put them in a frame of mind as to damage themselves, but that's not a problem of speech, that's mental illness there.

But let us return to protection from offensive speech. Surely it is no mystery that any arbitrary word might be offensive to anyone. To a man with no feet, would anythig but the metric system be offensive? (Is black coffee offensive? Obviously to someone. That sounds like the kind of person to follow at a discrete distance until they leave a lousy tip so you can accurately call them a niggard and watch their feathers really ruffle for no reason.) Is it offensie to the woman who has had to have a radical mastecomy if somenone say that they "just have to get something off their chest" in their presence. I've been there, and I felt a little weird when that came out of my mouth, but just forged ahead because reasonable people do not take common turns of phrase like that personally even if they have a serious negative association with their literal meaning. (and because, having already stuck my little toe in my mouth, figured it would be a good idea not to keep going until I had the foot up to the knee.)

And I am not going to argue mankind/humankind. I have found that folks who are worried about that have already made up their minds. Whehr or not they have a good reason is not something I think it is important to fight about, but I do reserve the right to think they're being profundly superfical, reading as much into linguistic theory as the Victorians did into evolution, and more than a little silly.

So to recap: Your right to not be offended is not a right that trumps free expression in a public forum. Private is, of course, private. And if you want to not use man in the general rather than the gendered sense, that's your right, but I find it a little offensive. ;)

Be Well, oh Famously Strange one.

Um, did anyone bother to find out the validity of the "news item"? In any case, before everyone jumps to conclusions, how do we even know that the "staff" at the cafe was black? This was in Scotland where I don't think there is a large population of black people. Or maybe the Black Watch was offended? This reminds me of the "racist Ice Cream" thread where a bunch of white people were presumptious and took offence at some "black nogger ice cream".

I think the joke may be on us for buying that "story" which I suspect to be false.

Bowling would be the other way around: Black ball knocking down a bunch of white pins with red-necks.

What's wrong with different names? I see nothing wrong with this. It accurately reflects a classroom these days.

In my class there's Nigel, Francine, Jose, Maria, DeWayne, Yoshi... Why would you consider this to be "PC liberal pantywaist bullshit"? Why are you so bothered by other people's names? Obviously the standardized test is reflecting reality. We are increasingly globalized. Get used to it.

Um, there are plenty, PLENTY of scholarships for middle-class white people, more than any other "group". At my school we have, "Descendants of Confederate Soldiers Scholarship, Descendants of the Mayflower, Sons of Italy, Knights of columbus, Daughters of the American Revolution, Erin Go Braugh (I think it's for Irish: white people), Nordic Legacy and much, much more. So if you have the funds, by all means, start a scholarship for white males. Although it looks like everyone beat you to it.

This is the most sensible post I've read so far.

My brother, I couldn't agree with you more. I think hyphenated-Americans are more confusing than anything. Is Theresa Heinz Kerry African-American? She was born in Africa.... hOw about Charlize Theron?

The problem is two-ways: people STILL only see phentypical differences first versus "nationality". EX: While I deeply appreciate your recognition of American for who/what they are, most people don't. When people see a black guy, they think, "hey look, a black guy" NOT, "hey look, a fellow American." Same with any other hyphenated-American. Most Americans don't "see" Asian-Americans as Americans. They see their perceived "Asianess" first. People don't think of the guy in the turban at the mall as American, they think "look, it's Osama!" even though the guy could be third-generation Sikh from Texas.

I say drop the hyphens and let us all stand together as AMERICANS. Ask yourself this: Do you really subscribe to what you stated:
"If you are born in America, you are American. End of story."

Or does being American mean being white? (I'm not picking on you I'm just putting that out there for people to think about :) )

Edit* Especially as long as sh*t like this keeps happening: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ghts_dennys_dc

Tophat665 has exactly the right idea; nobody has the right not to be offended. Nobody has the right to silence those they find offensive precisely because of the 1st Amendment. No matter what is said someone somewhere will be offended, and there is no way to make everyone happy. Describing someone as black is protected by free speech.

In fact, if we want to get wild and crazy I also have a right to use racial slurs like nigger, spic, Japs, Chinks, crackers, etc. As long as I make it clear it is only my opinion I can name-call pretty much all day. The law only protects from certain things; for instance it is illegal to lie about someone in an attempt to damage their reputation. I could call someone full of poo, but if I were to claim that they literally ate poo in their spare time I could be charged with slander. Death threats are obviously out, but free speech means you can express your true feelings without being silenced.

If this story is true, it might be possible to charge the coffee store itself with discrimination. If it is illegal to refuse service to a person because they are black or because they are a Democrat, it should also be illegal to refuse service even if they walk into the store in full KKK robes.

Ive heard of schools changing the name of a 'black board' to a chalk board.The nursery rhyme 'baa baa black sheep' was considered offensive ??why? just the mention of an object or an animal being black is somehow offensive? Maybe if the black sheep was going around attacking all the white sheep ;) I have no idea what a 'black board' could do to deserve being called offensive though :rolleyes:

These examples are totally rediculous but the offensiveness of terms like 'chairman 'and 'manhole ' probably deserve more attention . But my way of thinking is this...these terms may have started out as being used to discribe men doing these jobs , but as women have come into the workplace and now do the jobs equally ,they now mean 'anyone' doing the jobs.Where once chairman meant a 'man' in charge of the board it now comes to mean the 'person' in charge of a board. Peoples 'ideas' of the job can change without the word having to.

people are far too sensitive .

I'd ask for an extremely black cup of black coffee that is black.

-1 pts for society.

Current score.. way below zero.

I dont even get into a fuss about stupid shit like this anymore , I just laugh and move on.

you know... it really isnt that hard to ask for "coffee with milk" instead.

and if you believe in the free market, then a free enterprise is allowed to serve or not serve who they want... although this isnt the best way to stay in business.

Personally, I think it is very silly of anyone to believe that the word black is in itself offensive... but if you want to buy a coffee from this shop you obviously have a choice to either ask for it in the name they want, or go elsewhere.

Ive also notices that they do the same in McDonalds. (although not the same issue)

I remember trying to order a bagel with cream cheese there, and they had some silly name for it, and I just kept saying "just with cream cheese" and the guy kept saying "do you mean the McBagel McCheese?" or whatever it was called... and I was obviously being pedantic and kept saying "I want a bagel with cream cheese"... but he absolutely refused to take the order until I used the official McDonalds name... but I was hungry and I like bagels... so I did in the end!

I can't help but laugh every time I hear the term "African American." My friend and I were discussing this in government class one day, and he blurted out (rather loudly) "They're Americans! It's not like they're a special type of Americans!"

Since then, I've made a habit of referring to black people (especially when I'm around him) as "Special Americans."

I know, I'm awful. Isn't it great?


Anyhow, it's not really safe to say African American anyway because - and this may surprise some of you - not all black people living in the United States are of African descent. Ever heard of South America? Yeah, they have black people there, too. Funny ol world, ain't it?


And as a side note, I'm not entirely convinced of the validity of the article. I mean, it was from the Daily Record, with such gems of headlines as "HARTSON STALKER TRAPPED BY DAILY RECORD," "BECKS: IT'S TRUE WE ROW," "I'LL SEE PM IN COURT OVER 'WAR CRIMES.'" Call me crazy, but I'm just not so sure a source like that is very reputable. Maybe things are different in the UK.

PC folks (rather, those becoming) were put on this earth for me to play with. *maniacal cackle*

Reminds me of a road trip I took. We stopped to eat at a Denny's and I refused to say "Moons over my hammy." The waiter wanted me to say it and finally he asked loudly, "Moons over my HAMMY???"

"Yeah...thanks." Glare. Moron.

IMHO That's the funniest shit i've every read
 

Ha Ha, at least he didn't order negro-coffee.

Hmm, you might take a look at the tone of your own posts, man. Chill the hell out...

Perhaps I am one of the "easily offended few," (actually, it takes a lot to offend me, but someone screaming bloody murder on an otherwise civil thread does raise my hackles). Even if I disagree with some of what he says, I respect Strange Famous' balanced, more unemotional tone a hell of a lot more than what I sense is your defensive, yelling, cussing-out diatribe that has no place on TFP. If you could make your point with a less-offensive tone, I'd be a lot more convinced by your argument. Your attitude offends me more than any "language" you might use to convey it, PC or not.

To me, that's the point of being careful with language... not whether or not you use "man" or "black," but to try not to hurt people with the attitude behind it.

EDIT: I just realized how old the OP was on this thread... so maybe Stare at the Sun won't even see it. But I still stand behind my point.

we've been using the term 'Frosh' for aeons.

But really? Glasgow? can't believe those miserly Scots are that concerned... :crazy:

Heh, think you totally missed the jist of what i was trying to say. Firstly. You're atleast 18 years old if you're a member of this website. If you can't tolerate someone saying "fuck", then...well, I'm simply speechless.

Anyways, I'm sorry that my "attitude" does not conform to how you wanted it to. I believe that if you reread the thread, and my posts on the first page, they all clearly state my opinion. If you don't like them *shrugs* thats just fine, but they are my opinions.

Oh, and not to personally attack strange famous or anything, but he is FAR from "balanced" (just as I am). He is way liberal, and thinks everyone deserves to live in a world free from naughty words that might offend. I, being more realistic, say get the fuck over it and grow up. The unbias people on this board, by in large, are the mods.

Briefly:

The word fuck is fine with me, I use it plenty myself. It's the tone and attitude behind it that offends me.

Your opinion is fine, I wasn't offended by that. Once again, it was your attitude and the way you expressed it.

Most people on this board are unbalanced in some way, but that does not call for screaming at them. This board is about respectful discussion, and I did not sense the desire to observe this protocol in your posts.

It's not worth my time to comment any further on this thread.

just fyi journalists have to say alleged 99% of the time so they don't taint the jury pool or 'influence public opinion' in case of trials and suits and other items. Oh yeah, and defamation of character / slander / libel type items.

First of all, I would like to state that asking for black coffee is not racists. Though this seems a little out of hand for the coffee shop. I would question the motives behind it.

Secondly, I'll talk about myself. I lived in Ohio for about three years. I've heard black people called coloured, from a white person. That I considered racist. I have said racist comments myself. I've said the 'N' word to a black person, and that guy, laughed at me and couldn't believe I said that. He said that it was funny because I AM NOT a racist person, and that he felt that being PC is stupid. So, I try to be considerate towards people.

And lastly, when does speech because a sexist issue? Should the french be punish because they have separate words for femenine and masculine words? Or should we be punished because we don't? Its just gotten way out of line where people are offended by the smallest things.

I don't like to be called boy, but do you see me trying to change the education system because I find it offensive? No, because thats just dumb. I'm also offended by people not giving me the respect I deserve, should I make it law, so that I get the respect I deserve. No, because thats idiotic.

Three things I hate:
1) Idiocy
2) Immaturity
3) Ignorance.

Based on the age of the person, I'm not sure I would consider it racist... When I was a kid, in the late 60s early 70s, black people were referred to as coloreds, or colored people. Even into the late 70s - that term still held. Some older folks that term would be hard to get rid of. Their intent in using it might be racist but the word itself isn't

Somewhere in that time, maybe before, maybe after, blacks were referred to as negros. Later on blacks. Sometime later on, they opted for the African American label.

King's dream is the correct one, though I'll paraphrase it a little We should live in a world wher we are judged by the content of our character, and not by whatever label we've chosen to give ourselves , or labels others have chosen to give us.

The brouhaha over coffee is dumb. I am a pretty staunch feminist, but I cringe at the stupidity of those women out there who spell women womyn, and use gender neutral terms. Who cares... (I am the only female in my office, I get emails regularly addressed to the crew- Guys and Gal - it's done jokingly, but I would have no problem with being one of the guys because I am. )

If blacks come from South America, then their ancestry is still African. I hate the hyphenated bullshit, though.

In my mind the only ones who have a need or an excuse to call themselves African American are people who just immigrated from Africa. For example, if I was born in Africa, moved to the US and became a US citizen, I would be and African-American. My children, born in America would be simply American.

Should I as a decendant of European stock start calling myself, European Canadian? That would just be silly.

I'm not one to tell people what they should label themselves... go nuts. Call yourself a Congolese/Irish American for all I care... I understand that the use of a label like African-American was supposed to empower people. That it was supposed to give some sort of connection to a heritage that had been stolen long ago. I get all that.

I just feel that all this labelling ultimately does is perpetuate a divisiveness in American culture. I perpeturates an us and them mindset that just isn't healthy.

Um...I'll take mine black and bitter like my heart.