On English Language

[welshbyte]

I was going to post this message as a reply to another thread but since my chain of thought grew out of all proportion and went slightly off track in parts, i felt it best to start a new thread rather than risk seeming arrogant. It's basically a few of my observations on the decline of the English language, vocabulary and grammar in particular.

Firstly I should point out that I am considering American English and English neutrally. I am British but i don't hold the opinion that either of the dialects is the correct one.

The English - American English differences are good examples of evolution of language. Although a lot of the differences are just spellings there are some words which are totally unique to American English as it was more than just English people who settled in America and contributed to it's dialect.

Since American movies and chatting and communicating via the internet have grown in popularity, American English and English are kind of merging as American terms are being absorbed by English speakers and, to a lesser extent, newer English terms are making it into the American English vocabulary (I've seen a rising number of Americans use the slang word "arse" instead of the usual "ass" lately).

This doesn't really worry me too much as it makes communication easier in the long term. However, I am bothered by the obvious lack of good vocabulary extension in schools which are seemingly being pressured to teach kids more and more concepts without actually making sure they learn them (as opposed to remembering them). Even though I'm only 22 years old, I have noticed the lack of effort that teachers seem to put into making vocabulary interesting and important to pupils from an early age.

I am also quite frustrated about having never had any lessons on the breakdown of the English language. Being a programming enthusiast I know that you only need to learn the syntax of a language to be able to use it but to use it effectively you need to layer a good vocabulary on top. At school i never had any lessons (that i can remember) on nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs etc. and in hindsight i feel i could have benefited greatly from knowing how English works. It may have also helped me learn foreign languages, or even Welsh - the native language of my home country - a lot more easily. I still don't speak fluent Welsh but i would love to learn it.

Although my vocabulary has some gaping holes and I am not great at using it to its full potential, I am a great lover of large, ear tingling, beautiful, poetic words and I try to use them as much as I can and learn as many new ones as I can to express myself more eloquently (that's a good word!) and make myself sound more interesting, not just to other people, but to myself.

I once heard someone say that clearness of language reflects clearness of thought and I agree with this point entirely. When you think to yourself and the little voice inside your head starts talking (I hope this isn't just me) it can only talk with words in your own vocabulary. So when, for example, George W. Bush sits in silence and ponders nuclear weapons, he's thinking "nucular" rather than "nuclear".

This brings us to the problem of peer judgement. If a gat packin' gangster from the 'hood started saying words such as "splendid" and "quantifiable" to his homies he would probably be laughed at and alienated. I'm not 100% sure why this happens but i think it's something to do with certain words and idioms being stereotyped e.g. "Peace, man" might get you labeled as a hippie.

I guess my reason for posting all of these observations and opinions is to see whether they are arguable opinons, to share some ideas, and to read some counter-opinions and different perceptions. Thanks for reading this far

Afterthought(1): If i get some spare time soon, i might knock together a little program which counts how many individual words I use in a post and which ones are duplicated the most. That way i might be able to track the development of my own vocabulary.
Afterthought(2): If anyone can see a part of this post which is in syntactic disobedience, please let me know so that I can learn from it.

[Fremen]

Besides agreeing with you, all I have to say is, excellent post!
Got a chuckle from me about the Bush 'nucular' sentence.
I have no doubt that that's true.
Looking forward to reading more of your posts, welshbyte.

[welshbyte]

Thanks Fremen, I'm glad you enjoyed it I must say, i thought the length of that post would just scare people off before they even bothered to read it. I do like to ramble sometimes.

[SiN]

Originally Posted by welshbyte

.. the length of that post would just scare people off before they even bothered to read it.

Almost...but now I'm glad I bothered. Great thoughts.

Your point regarding grammar resonates with me particularly, as I'm trying to become fluent in a 2nd language. I find I think of grammar often, as it pertains to both languages. And, I am certain that a stronger knowledge/background in the English Grammar would help me. 1. To be familiar with the terms (most of which, I am...but verb tenses for example..erg). 2. It's easier to translate when the grammar is correct in the 'from' language.

anyways...before I start to ramble...

/me shuts herself up

[Rodney]

I am 48 years old and just finished a teaching certificate program; I and most of my classmates intend to teach in the primary grades. When I went to primary school, 40 years ago, we learned the parts of speech -- subject, verb, adjective, adverb, prepositions, and all that. Through taking French, I also learned principles of verb conjugation and tense, as well as conventions like accents and noun gender that prevail in other languages.

Oddly enough, most of my early-mid 20ish classmates had no such background. They had their primary education in California in the '80s, and apparently in those days none of those things were taught in pulbic school. In short, most of my fellow student teachers had no background in linguistics -- the structure of language -- at all. Concepts like active and passive voice are things most of them have only vaguely heard of. And these are -- THE TEACHERS OF TOMORROW! Scary.

Actually, a bunch of them do teach well. And this kind of language structure is, once again, on the curriculum for the lower grades. But a whole lot of them will be learning it as they go, the night before they teach it to the kids....


Oh, and in my opinion, English belongs to the Brits. We Americans get to sling it around, too, but nobody can make English sing like an educated Brit with something to stay and a full head of steam.

[mirevolver]

Honestly I did not learn the structure of language until I started learning other languages. But oddly enough, learning other languages has helped me to better understand how the English language works.


SiN, ich glaube, dass Sie gut Deutsch lernen können.

[tspikes51]

mirevolver, that's what Latin did for me. Learning another language was one of the best things I have done to assist me in being able to manipulate our language.

[aurigus]

I think it is important to speak english well so you can convey your thoughts and ideas with authority.

I also took Latin and French in high school, and Spanish in college. It definately helps you learn english better by learning foreign languages.