Strange Famous

Naomi Klein

And sex sells...

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Cowman

Heres a question for you:

Why does it matter if they're selling an image?

The whole point of clothing, at least in the summer time, IS image. Otherwise, we would all be walking around naked.

People like to look good, this is a fact of life. Why arn't we all up in arms about Fitness centers advertising pictures of beautiful women? Shouldn't the point of a fitness center be getting healthy?

For many people, it's not. I go to a gym 5 times a week because I want to look good. I buy Abercrombie because I want to look good. I eat a can of tuna for lunch instead of a bigmac because I want to look good.

Image is a MAJOR part of many people's lives, and belitteling(sp again) other people because they want to fit into a certain image is, in my opinion, a terrible thing to do.

Now as far as the article goes..well..as I said earlier, you decided why an entire school population was buying X clothing and then critisized them for it. Sure, many of the people are buying it for the sex image(what's wrong with that, again?), but im sure there are those who buy it because they like the clothing, or they have a relative who works there so they can get it cheap, or the other endless possibilitys that there are.

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crfpilot

I got a kick out of this statement. I always thought buck heads are what hunters have on their walls, and disagreeing with someone was butting heads.


We now return to your previously scheduled thread, already in progress.

powerclown

I'm saying having spent so much goddamn time and $$$ in getting an education (i use the term loosely) now that i finally have a few bucks in my pocket (I'm hardly rich) im gonna use some of that dough to buy nice clothes, which I happen to prefer. Logically speaking, if i was smart, i probably should save my money and shop at thrift stores and the like, but 1) im too materialistic, 2) im not smart.

tehblaed

8.5 for a fantastic dismount.

So anyway, if I had read this article when I was 16, full of angst, and shopping at Hot Topic (in the same realm as A&F as far as I'm concerned) for my Pennywise shirts, I most definitely would have been in full agreement with all the points brought up - including insulting those who shop at A&F.

However, now at 19 and more mature, I look at the big picture and can determine that it's all just clothing. External costumes for our internalized selves. While as a practice I shop at Goodwill and the sale rack at Kohl's (I do own some AE jeans and Gap shirts), I do not view myself as a more individualistic member of society - that comes from my personality, not my choice of clothing. Judging each other based on the label of our jeans - whether it be A&F or Lee - is not acceptable, regardless of how awesome it is to take a stand against the herding of America's youth, which has been done for decades.

We are all people, regardless of what we wear. [edit: I've met some pretty awesome people in my two years of college, and let's just say that my previous self would have not allowed these people to get within 5 feet of me] There is definitely not enough love for our fellow human out there, and hating someone just because of where they shop is not my idea of being open-minded.

gdr2004

Well, I say it's their money, their marketing campaign, and if people want to spend money to fit into a stereotype, go for it :-)

theusername

See it's ok to say whatever anyone wants to wear should be fine. But the problem is, as i see it, it's the younger crowd that's always tricked into this kind of thing. I'm worried about the 11-15 demographic. They are too young to be wearing sexually advancing clothing because they still have no idea about life and sex. I'm only on the topic of young girls dressing like whores at a young age. Wish they had better parents.

Prejudging people on the basis of just their clothing isn't cool.

Personally, I hate image. I hate our focus on physical appearance and obsession with looking perfect but not treating each other perfectly. Then again to each their own, if that's your goal go for it, but it sure as hell isn't mine.

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guthmund

Well, there's no reason to go calling yourself stupid. Don't get me wrong, I certainly wasn't trying to rag on you. I just didn't understand the way you were connecting the dots.

And believe me, I certainly understand the desire to buy good quality clothing and I'm certainly not slamming the folks who shop at these places. I just don't believe that good quality clothing comes exclusively from GapClosetStageAbercrombie & FitchNike's domain.

If you want to buy the image, I'm not going to knock you for doing it. Just realize that you are buying it for the image.

Does that make sense?

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powerclown

Oh yeah I understand I'm buying an image.
There's something I realized a while back: People are Judgemental. Even when they insist they aren't, they are. They'll judge you based on your haircut; they'll judge you based on the type of car you drive; they'll judge you by the types of friends you have; they'll judge you by what clothes you wear; they'll judge you by the music you listen to; they'll judge you by the way you speak. They'll judge you by your body type. They'll judge you by your posture. They'll judge you by what cigarettes you smoke and beverages you drink.

So...once I figured this out, I just tried to go along as best I could to minimize pain in my life. I realize that some people are different from this, and are more confrontational, confident or whatnot, I'm just describing myself. It never ceases to amaze me how a change in your outward appearance affects other's perceptions of you, and therefore, their actions toward you.

Paq

la petite

Great article, something i've felt for years...then again, i do shop at BR and gap and old navy and jcrew...but only when there are sales.

as for what you're saying....I can totally agree. the last A&F catalog i saw was R rated and had half advertising clothing and half with just naked people..no clothing necessary..normally...I'd be all for it, but when it's an ad for clothing marketed towards 15 yr olds and 15 yr olds can't legally have the advertisement...well, it just makes ya think.

Now, do i blame them? nooo, obviously it sells and the bottom line is everything...right?.................

I just think it's sad that parents spend so much money on their children for this stuff and then they bitch about everything else...

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flamingdog

Naomi Klein

billege

I gotta say this:
Where is anyone under 16 getting money for A&F clothes? My wife and I are both wage earners, and doing well for 20-somethings. We choose not to even try and pay what A&F sells clothes for. So, where the heck do kids get that kind of money?

I can see a working 16-18 year old dumping all their cash into clothes. That age group has the earnings potential, I suppose, to buy their own clothes.

But, if any kid too young to legally work is sporting some A&F, I'd think it's safe to assume they got the bankroll from mommy and daddy. I'd be willing to think many kids over 16 (and therefore possibly working) also get the many dollars to buy A&F from mommy and daddy.

This situation is not a new, or undisputed, one. Parents who let their children buy this stuff may or may not have discussed with their children the implications of sex. If our hypothetical parents have taught our A&F shopper about sex, it's not impossible they're making an informed purchase.

If parents are still funding the trip, it's still their decision to say what the kid can buy with that money.


Good, I'm glad you did. It's common for me and some of my peer group to say, when sarcastically issuing a challenge, "oh you wanna buck huh?"

It may not be grammatically correct, and I was just waiting for someone to point out grammatical errors in my post ,and call me out, or even call me a hypocrite.
However, I'm not writing a published article like the kind I'm dispensing "advice" on. My post is just that, a spell checked stream of consciousness, on a message board. If I was publishing an editorial I'd have followed my own advice.

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sakura

I just buy clothes, I don't really think about. A company can advertise however they want, I don't really care. If I see something I like, I may buy it. If not, I'll head to the next store.

smooth

a few more comments:

there are other stores besides thrift stores that one can buy unbranded merchandise: sweatX is the first one that comes to mind. another store like that should come up in google.

in uptown areas, thrift stores carry better (more expensive) merchandise than A&F. I live in OC. If you go anywhere around the posh regions of OC or LA, you're going to find unbelievable things. That was just a suggestion as an antidote to consumerism--I wasn't trying to convince you, powerclown of anything, just answering your Q about where one could possibly go these days.

Now I don't usually buy _really_ expensive stuff, but when i have bought designer dresses and things, they are never branded. Neither are the most expensive suits and even my tux. So if one were really concerned about labels and things, expensive clothes are on the other end of the spectrum. My understanding is that slogans on clothes was a middle class phenom. The ball cap was the most blatant form of this. lower classes don't care, I suppose, and upper crust doens't want someone else's name on their ass. The only people who seem to care are people desperately trying to announce their class position and their desire to be upwardly mobile.

11-15 year olds know a hell of a lot more about sex than many of you are giving them credit for. They prolly get more sex than most of us, actually. and it isn't a new thing, although people try and link it to the decadence of our modern culture.

The notion that A&F is marketed toward these (pre)teens was not caused by A&F. It was caused by articles that started this thread. A&F claims they market their clothes to college students, their catalog was age restricted, and the models don't look like prepubescents or even high schoolers. The fact that parents buy their children these clothes doesn't make A&F culpable. It also doesn't say anything about the parenting styles, either. It's just clothes.

I think it's tragic for people to be linking one's clothing choices to that person's sexuality. If someone buys clothes from a catalog that shows people engaging in orgies and etc., that does _not_ make the purchaser into a whore. Wearing short skirts, baring midruffs, and low cut tops do _not_ translate into being a whore or sexually loose. The only thing that makes someone sexually promiscuous is engaging in sexual behavior--and girls and boys who don't ever show an inch of flesh are just as capable as those who show it all at engaging in sexual behavior.

Sexual behavior doesn't impugn anyone's moral character, unless they purport to subscribe to a particular set of moral beliefs that would otherwise argue that they shouldn't be doing it. If a girl or boy is a member of a church that believes premarital sex is wrong, then I would support someone calling his or her morals into question because he or she wouldn't be adhering to a chosen belief system.

That's where I draw my lines.

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justin@knac

Well guys, the thread starter is only a kid so he's not going to have a perfectly written argument. I commend what he is trying to state which is A&F are clearly marketed to an underage group. Their models look like they're 14-17 years old. And the provocative nature in which they are pictured are sexually suggestive. Their ad campaigns are aimed at kids too young to be exposed to such things.
For crying out loud, I was in the Mall two years ago and they had a 6' x 8' photo of a seemingly naked guy in bed with four girls! That's obvious, blatant, and clearly inappropriate.

la petite moi

Heehee, I'm a girl. And yes, I was 16 or 17 when I wrote this.

Paq

and you do have lots of sex.....not that that's a bad thing

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bltzkriegmcanon

AF fucking sucks! I hate their clothes, I hate their campaigns, I hate the entire attitude and lifestyle that is associated with that shit! 50 fucking dollars for a pair of jeans that look like you ran them through a fucking wood chipper! Where do I sign up? Look at me, mommy bought me $500 worth of shit from AF and I only got 10 items! Oh yeah, I went to Old Navy and got the exact same looking shit from Old Navy for $250! Popular clothing stores are shit, and this is the precise reason why I hate them. Do I own clothes from stores like Old Navy and American Eagle? Yes. But I FUCKING HATE AF. They're shit. Pure, unadulterated shit. Too expensive, not worth the money, not now, not ever.

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animosity

This sounds familiar, I think the author was in a documentary I saw recently:The Corperation, which is quite good by the way.

A&F makes me sick to my stomach. They are selling sex to minors, plain and simple. I am the last person to normally care, but after all of the stories I hear about young people these days, it makes me think twice.

A couple years back, when I was in good shape & worked in the mall, A&F asked me if I wanted to model in their store(wearing only boxers) for $100 a day. I politely declined, but I don not understand how having a half naked guy standing in your store has anything to do with selling clothing.... What are you trying to say?-If you dont come in here and buy clothes you will be like that poor sucker standing at the door in his boxers...?

oh, and i just got the best pair of jeans i have had in a while for $20, I dont know the store. I am forgetfull

Booray

Not sure if anyone mentioned this because I didn't read all the comments, but there was a controversy a couple of years ago too, where Abercrombie and Fitch was marketing a thong to 7 to 14 year olds that said "Eye Candy" and "Wink Wink" on the front and pissed a lot of people off. Not sure if they decided to keep selling them or not

Article here: http://www.jsonline.com/news/gen/may02/43941.asp

Pic of thong here:

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Cowman

Their ad campaigns are aimed at kids too young etc? Says who? Who are you to draw the line for X number of kids across North America?

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Willravel

Havign worked at A & F for about a six monthe period, I have to say that I don't much care for the people that the company employs (with a few exceptions, of course). Let me explain this a bit. I worked in a very large mall Abercrombie on the west coast. The area I live in has a very large number of Latino, Asian, and Black communities. None of wich were hired, unless they were what most people consider white wash. The ration of white to any other ethnicity was about 30:1 in a store of about 60. You get the idea. Also, the average phisique of the worker was somewhere between 'best-looking person at your highschool' and 'Brat Pitt and Jessica Simpson'. Neither of these rules was exclusive to the floor workers. Poeple who worked in the stock room and who worked the night shift - people who were never seen by the customers - were also required to look this way. We were also required to wear Abercrombie cloths and specific shoes! I complained about that, because I did not make enough working there to buy cloths like that; even with the employee discount. They basically told me to shut up or be fired, so I explained to them that California law gies me the right to wear something other than their clothes.
After that, I was basically an outsider. I only took the job to make my car insurance payments and for gas money. Eventually I made my way back into their graces with really good, and hard, work and shutting my big mouth. I was invited to sit in on interviews for new employees. We would hire about 10 or 15 at a time, seeing as there was such a quick turn around for working there (I wonder why?). What I heard the person in charge of hiring say after the interview shocked the hell out of me. This is almost a direct quote, "I can't beleive those chinks still think they can work here!!!" I immediatally demanded that person (a manager) to fire me. She did.

Since then there was a lawsuit involving asians (a 'two wongs will make it white' shirt showing asians doing dry cleaning) and there was another involving the strict dress code.

I won't ever shop there again.

Feel free to show my story in your school news paper.

la petite moi

Sounds like a nightmare. Anyway, I wish I could, but I graduated last year.

Willravel

hahaha, oops. Well at least you get a different perspective.

miggity99

I went into A&F once. I walked over to the t-shirts, saw that I would have to spend $25 to get one and walked out of the store. I've never been back inside any A&F stores since.

I thought it was funny the other day when I went into Old Navy and saw that they would go a head and pre-wrinkle your shirts for you.

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aphroditeskiss1

I personally do not care how a store chooses to advertise themselves. I am part of the group who buys, not from A&F, because they are too expensive, but Hollister, Gap, American Eagle, and Express. So am I a bad person now? No, I like the clothes, they are what I am willing to pay, and personally, the thought of wearing someone else's clothing kinda grosses me out. I am in no way an unintelligent person. I also shop for clothing at Target. And for those of you who railed against Gap, to go on to say Banana Republic was where it's at, I have a bit of information for you. BR and Gap, in addition to Old Navy are all the same company. By buying from BR, you are effectivly patronizing Gap. Just thought I'd let you know.

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MageB420666

Ok, I would first like to say that the only trendy place I get my clothes at is hot topic. Usually I shop at wal-mart. My main question is not "Where do the kids get the money?" or "Why are stores allowed to behave this way?". My question is "What the fuck are parents doing letting their 7-14 year old kids wander around the mall alone for? Especially with large amounts of money on them?" And if the parents are with the kids and letting them buy the clothes than there is nothing we can do about it. As far as I'm concerned the store should be able to sell whatever clothes it wants to and be able to use what ever advertising methods they want so long as they do not break the law.(i.e. child pornography, any models showing so called private areas need to be 18 or over.) Should a company be able to discriminate in it's hiring practices? Sure, that doesn't mean you have to shop there or work there if it does. If a company wants to present a certain image to it's customers it should be able to, even if it's a rascist image, if you were a store manager you wouldn't hire someone covered in dirt and filth and that reeks like an unemptied garbage bin to work on the sales floor would you? Besides rascism against a majority is just as bad as rascism against a minority, it still impacts the individuals. If you don't like it don't shop there. If they sell clothes that display rascist symbols don't by the clothes, if the clothes don't sell they will stop making them. I am not a rascist, so don't try calling me one, I am simply a very strong supporter of the First Amendment. I also believe that the government should not be able to tell businesses who they have to hire, or colleges who they have to admit.
Do I believe that racism should be done away with totally? Hell yes. But saying you can't display rascist symbols and slurs only hides it, it does not change the thoughts behind it. We have to be able to see the target to get rid of it.

Just to repeat I am in no way a supporter of rascism, I just believe we are going the wrong way about getting rid of it.

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Willravel

Aphrodites kiss. There are a lot of people out there that say that they'd never buy a Ford. Of course Ford is also Lincoln, Mercury, Land Rover, Astin Martin, Saab, Volvo, and Mazda. Just because they are all from the same father company means that they are all of the same quality or the same type. The parent company is not directly involved with the marketing stratagies of each of the subsideary companys.
I like Banana Republic, too.

aphroditeskiss1

I realize that though the "main" parent company isn't soley in charge of marketing, etc. they still do oversee some of it, at least in the case of Gap, Old Navy, and BR. It just kind of irritated me to hear someone say they hate this brand of clothes, but still buy from its subsidiaries. If you are going to boycott a brand for certain buinsess practices, it would make sence to boycott all its other companies as well.

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" I do not pop pills! I take them and I eat them..."
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punx1325

I walked in once because someone said they had nice jackets, saw the shit they had and left to never return.

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