Valedictorian who ripped school denied diploma - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dnd · 06-28-2004, 02:21 PM

that punishment is clearly wrong....unless what she says doesn't have any justification...but even then taking away the product of 4 years (hard?) work is not their right. hopefully she gets her degree, and the school gets a kick where it needs it

kutulu · 06-28-2004, 03:54 PM

Looking at the school's response it makes you wonder which one was the teenager.

Harshaw · 06-28-2004, 04:24 PM

I'm glad she had the guts to say something. The Valedictorian at my school had no brain and almost no spine.

Hrothgar · 06-28-2004, 07:00 PM

For a smart girl she should have waited till she had the diploma in hand.

Kepage23 · 06-28-2004, 07:35 PM

It sounds like she just stated the truth. I know there are probably rules that say things like no profanity and nothing obscene, but are the speaches that restricted? I just hope this doesn't affect on her full scholarship

MSD · 06-28-2004, 08:22 PM

They owe her an apology. If someone exposes the inept management of a company, they're covered under whistleblower protection laws. If a student says something, with the intent of exposing problems and forcing change, she should be protected.

strcrssd · 06-28-2004, 10:04 PM

I think she could score a very nice free ride through the University of her choosing with the profits from a nice civil rights lawsuit.

If they want to play hardball and withhold important documents, she should sue to get them back AND a free ride through college.

Then wait for the school board elections, and find out who doesn't get elected because they wasted the taxpayer's money on childish retaliation on (presumably constructive) criticism (sp?)

I'm a product of public schools, and at tutor at a University. I can concur that they are not achieving their goals with regards to the formal edification of their charges.

Tirian · 06-28-2004, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
Yes.. real life.. where you're supposed to shut your mouth and do as you're told. Never shake shit up because nothing good can ever come of it. Growing up means you must become a sterile, uninteresting, docile, unmotivated sack of flesh that does your superior's bidding at all times. Shame on her.

I guess I deserved that for speaking up, and expressing my opinion even when it clearly tilted to the other side of this thread.

:-)

energus · 06-29-2004, 04:17 AM

NEVER EVER MAKE AN APOLOGY WHEN YOU ARE RIGHT.

She spoke out against her teachers and school and if she is right it should be applauded. It does not happen often that a person of that age has the guts and articulation to make this public knowledge.

I am a teacher and I know that there are schools out there (also in my country) That do a crap job. If she is right she is right. end of discussion give her the degree and try to make the school a better place with the given critique.

uncle phil · 06-29-2004, 04:20 AM

Reason prevails...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/stor...p-178321c.html

Diploma for teen

Ed bigs cave after speech

BY VERONIKA BELENKAYA, HELEN PETERSON
and TRACY CONNOR
DAILY NEWS WRITERS

Tiffany Schley

The Brooklyn valedictorian denied a diploma for criticizing her high school in a graduation speech is getting her sheepskin after all.
After insisting Tiffany Schley, 17, apologize for her brutal honesty, education officials relented last night and said she can pick up the certificate tomorrow.

"Our position is that while she should have handled the matter differently, she will receive her diploma," Education Department spokesman Stephen Morello said.

"We'll also ask her if she'll come in and meet with regional district officials about our concerns and her concerns about the school."

The reversal came after the Daily News exposed Tiffany's plight, unleashing a flood of phone calls from supporters and lawyers willing to help.

"I got calls from teachers and from some people that I don't even know," the feisty teen said. "They said, 'I support you' and 'Stand your ground.' It made me feel proud."

After hearing of the officials' change of heart, Tiffany said, "It's very nice. I'm grateful for those who stood by me and for the support the Daily News has given me."

Administrators at the High School of Legal Studies in Bushwick were infuriated by Tiffany's address to the senior class, in which she spoke about overcrowding, lack of textbooks and unqualified teachers.

When she went to pick up her diploma on Friday, officials refused to hand it over, threw her out of the building and demanded an apology.

Tiffany said she had originally planned to give a motivational speech, focusing on her struggle to overcome a lisp with the help of her mother, Felicia. But when she realized how many of her fellow classmates were not graduating, "at the last minute, I just started typing," she said.

Before the ceremony, she submitted her speech to an assistant principal, as required, but he rewrote it and gave it back to her on graduation day, she said.

"He typed over it and had me glorifying the school," she said.

She stuck with her first speech, but couldn't finish giving it because the assistant principal cut the microphone - before she got to her positive comments about the school.

Friends and neighbors said they are solidly behind the teen, who is headed to Smith College on a full scholarship.

"I think that she spoke the truth. That is why they are mad," said pal Terri Perry, 16.

Mayor Bloomberg also said, "What bozo tried to hold back a diploma in a country where freedom of speech is so prized?"

losthellhound · 06-29-2004, 07:37 AM

What happened to her right to free speech?

Just wait a few days. The media knows, the city knows, and now every civil rights activist knows. She's going to get her diploma

Bill O'Rights · 06-29-2004, 08:14 AM

Nice follow up, uncle phil. But you know that the only reason that they relented was because of this statement;

Quote:

...lawyers willing to help.

Gotta love it, but I still say that the administrators that pulled this crap need to be looking for other careers.

boatin · 06-29-2004, 09:51 AM

wow! they cut the mike on her...

like that could have made it better. people never cease to amaze.

kutulu · 06-29-2004, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by uncle phil
"Our position is that while she should have handled the matter differently, she will receive her diploma," Education Department spokesman Stephen Morello said.

"We'll also ask her if she'll come in and meet with regional district officials about our concerns and her concerns about the school."

So it appears that everything worked itself out. She got her diploma without having to apologize AND the school wants to talk to her about her concerns. Hopefully they will take her seriously.

water_boy1999 · 06-29-2004, 12:33 PM

I think she was pretty smart to address some of the school's issues head on, I just think the forum which she chose to do it was in very bad taste. Graduation for many is the last event the students have to get through before they are free. I would have not appreciated it if the valedictorian of my high school vented in such a way to leave me thinking of nothing but the school's inability to give me the proper education to succeed in life. I would want to leave H.S. with fond memories, not the shock of hearing this flaming speech.

As far as the school administration goes, I feel sorry for them. There is basically nothing an administration can do these days to discipline a student for their behavior. It is a catch 22. When you have a school with a high percentage of unruly kids, it brings in a high teacher turnover rate, which in turn leaves the school in constant change and disarray.

There are so many things wrong with this article including: disciplining students appropriately, parents lack of concern for their kids education, legality issues of withholding one's diploma, and freedom of speech. This could be a long thread.....

denim · 06-29-2004, 12:43 PM

According to the CNN.com article, it looks like she's headed my direction, to Smith College, under a full scholorship.

Bill O'Rights · 06-29-2004, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by denim
According to the CNN.com article, it looks like she's headed my direction, to Smith College, under a full scholorship.

So?

You plannin' on hittin' on her?

Stompy · 06-29-2004, 05:53 PM

I haven't read all of the previous replies, but I'd like to know the legalities of the school not giving her the diploma.

I don't think they can do that. If she passed her classes, then legally, she can graduate and nothing can change that.

Spanxxx · 06-30-2004, 10:05 AM

Well, I knew a girl who was the valedictorian of her high school and wasn't allowed to give a speech because she was pregnant.

Talk about a breach of civil rights.

In this girls case, good for her. It might not have been the BEST avenue, but if the speech were at least respectful in tone, then kudos to her on being able to stand up when she finally had the attention it sometimes takes to make a difference.

nothingx · 06-30-2004, 06:50 PM

This is fantastic. I can't believe it actually worked out the way that it should.

This story reminds me of when I was in highschool and my English teacher gave us a term paper on John Steinbeck's "The Grapes of Wrath." I read it, but rather than writing about it, I chose to write about how much I didn't like they way he ran his class and how the last four years of high school had been a joke. I had learned to put forth just enough effort to keep my grades high enough to keep my parents happy, and not a bit more.

It was one of the better papers I'd ever written and he gave me a B, because it was an A quality paper, but off topic.

nonsensical · 07-01-2004, 08:12 AM

This was a public magnet HS, right? So they have a ton of state laws to follow regarding who gets a diploma, etc. I'd bet money that "talking nice in a valedictory speech" isn't in the rulebook for graduation requirements.

This is especially stupid considering that this is a school for prospective pre-law students. The HS admin just put themselves in the crosshairs of a lawsuit. Way to go, morons!

06-28-2004, 02:21 PM	#41 (permalink)
dnd Psycho Location: London...no longer a student	that punishment is clearly wrong....unless what she says doesn't have any justification...but even then taking away the product of 4 years (hard?) work is not their right. hopefully she gets her degree, and the school gets a kick where it needs it __________________ "Never underestimate a dumb question"-- Brandon Boyd

06-28-2004, 04:24 PM	#43 (permalink)
Harshaw Is mad at you. Location: Bored in Sacramento	I'm glad she had the guts to say something. The Valedictorian at my school had no brain and almost no spine. __________________ This too shall pass.

06-28-2004, 07:00 PM	#44 (permalink)
Hrothgar He's My Girl Location: The Champagne Douche	For a smart girl she should have waited till she had the diploma in hand. __________________ The fortunes of war favored Hrothgar.

06-28-2004, 07:35 PM	#45 (permalink)
Kepage23 Upright Location: MN	It sounds like she just stated the truth. I know there are probably rules that say things like no profanity and nothing obscene, but are the speaches that restricted? I just hope this doesn't affect on her full scholarship __________________ Just a TFP Rookie trying to make a name for himself.

06-28-2004, 10:04 PM	#47 (permalink)
strcrssd Insane Location: Rio Grande Valley, Texas	I think she could score a very nice free ride through the University of her choosing with the profits from a nice civil rights lawsuit. If they want to play hardball and withhold important documents, she should sue to get them back AND a free ride through college. Then wait for the school board elections, and find out who doesn't get elected because they wasted the taxpayer's money on childish retaliation on (presumably constructive) criticism (sp?) I'm a product of public schools, and at tutor at a University. I can concur that they are not achieving their goals with regards to the formal edification of their charges. __________________ "I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones." -- John Cage (1912 - 1992)

06-28-2004, 03:54 PM	#42 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Looking at the school's response it makes you wonder which one was the teenager.

06-28-2004, 08:22 PM	#46 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	They owe her an apology. If someone exposes the inept management of a company, they're covered under whistleblower protection laws. If a student says something, with the intent of exposing problems and forcing change, she should be protected.

06-29-2004, 04:17 AM	#49 (permalink)
energus Tilted Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands (find it on a map, it is there (somewhere))	NEVER EVER MAKE AN APOLOGY WHEN YOU ARE RIGHT. She spoke out against her teachers and school and if she is right it should be applauded. It does not happen often that a person of that age has the guts and articulation to make this public knowledge. I am a teacher and I know that there are schools out there (also in my country) That do a crap job. If she is right she is right. end of discussion give her the degree and try to make the school a better place with the given critique. __________________ Somnia, terrores magicos, miracula, sagas, Nocturnus lemures, portentaque. Horace

06-29-2004, 04:20 AM	#50 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	Reason prevails... http://www.nydailynews.com/news/stor...p-178321c.html Diploma for teen Ed bigs cave after speech BY VERONIKA BELENKAYA, HELEN PETERSON and TRACY CONNOR DAILY NEWS WRITERS Tiffany Schley The Brooklyn valedictorian denied a diploma for criticizing her high school in a graduation speech is getting her sheepskin after all. After insisting Tiffany Schley, 17, apologize for her brutal honesty, education officials relented last night and said she can pick up the certificate tomorrow. "Our position is that while she should have handled the matter differently, she will receive her diploma," Education Department spokesman Stephen Morello said. "We'll also ask her if she'll come in and meet with regional district officials about our concerns and her concerns about the school." The reversal came after the Daily News exposed Tiffany's plight, unleashing a flood of phone calls from supporters and lawyers willing to help. "I got calls from teachers and from some people that I don't even know," the feisty teen said. "They said, 'I support you' and 'Stand your ground.' It made me feel proud." After hearing of the officials' change of heart, Tiffany said, "It's very nice. I'm grateful for those who stood by me and for the support the Daily News has given me." Administrators at the High School of Legal Studies in Bushwick were infuriated by Tiffany's address to the senior class, in which she spoke about overcrowding, lack of textbooks and unqualified teachers. When she went to pick up her diploma on Friday, officials refused to hand it over, threw her out of the building and demanded an apology. Tiffany said she had originally planned to give a motivational speech, focusing on her struggle to overcome a lisp with the help of her mother, Felicia. But when she realized how many of her fellow classmates were not graduating, "at the last minute, I just started typing," she said. Before the ceremony, she submitted her speech to an assistant principal, as required, but he rewrote it and gave it back to her on graduation day, she said. "He typed over it and had me glorifying the school," she said. She stuck with her first speech, but couldn't finish giving it because the assistant principal cut the microphone - before she got to her positive comments about the school. Friends and neighbors said they are solidly behind the teen, who is headed to Smith College on a full scholarship. "I think that she spoke the truth. That is why they are mad," said pal Terri Perry, 16. Mayor Bloomberg also said, "What bozo tried to hold back a diploma in a country where freedom of speech is so prized?" __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

06-29-2004, 07:37 AM	#51 (permalink)
losthellhound Thats MR. Muffin Face now Location: Everywhere work sends me	What happened to her right to free speech? Just wait a few days. The media knows, the city knows, and now every civil rights activist knows. She's going to get her diploma __________________ "Life is possible only with illusions. And so, the question for the science of mental health must become an absolutely new and revolutionary one, yet one that reflects the essence of the human condition: On what level of illusion does one live?" -- Ernest Becker, The Denial of Death

06-29-2004, 09:51 AM	#53 (permalink)
boatin Psycho	wow! they cut the mike on her... like that could have made it better. people never cease to amaze.

06-29-2004, 12:33 PM	#55 (permalink)
water_boy1999 Fly em straight! Location: Above and Beyond	I think she was pretty smart to address some of the school's issues head on, I just think the forum which she chose to do it was in very bad taste. Graduation for many is the last event the students have to get through before they are free. I would have not appreciated it if the valedictorian of my high school vented in such a way to leave me thinking of nothing but the school's inability to give me the proper education to succeed in life. I would want to leave H.S. with fond memories, not the shock of hearing this flaming speech. As far as the school administration goes, I feel sorry for them. There is basically nothing an administration can do these days to discipline a student for their behavior. It is a catch 22. When you have a school with a high percentage of unruly kids, it brings in a high teacher turnover rate, which in turn leaves the school in constant change and disarray. There are so many things wrong with this article including: disciplining students appropriately, parents lack of concern for their kids education, legality issues of withholding one's diploma, and freedom of speech. This could be a long thread..... __________________ Doh!!!! -Homer Simpson

06-29-2004, 12:43 PM	#56 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	According to the CNN.com article, it looks like she's headed my direction, to Smith College, under a full scholorship.

06-29-2004, 05:53 PM	#58 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	I haven't read all of the previous replies, but I'd like to know the legalities of the school not giving her the diploma. I don't think they can do that. If she passed her classes, then legally, she can graduate and nothing can change that. __________________ I love lamp.

06-30-2004, 10:05 AM	#59 (permalink)
Spanxxx Psycho Location: Under my roof	Well, I knew a girl who was the valedictorian of her high school and wasn't allowed to give a speech because she was pregnant. Talk about a breach of civil rights. In this girls case, good for her. It might not have been the BEST avenue, but if the speech were at least respectful in tone, then kudos to her on being able to stand up when she finally had the attention it sometimes takes to make a difference. __________________ I think that's what they mean by "nickels a day can feed a child." I thought, "How could food be so cheap over there?" It's not, they just eat nickels. - (supposedly) Peter Nguyen, internet hero

06-30-2004, 06:50 PM	#60 (permalink)
nothingx undead Location: nihilistic freedom	This is fantastic. I can't believe it actually worked out the way that it should. This story reminds me of when I was in highschool and my English teacher gave us a term paper on John Steinbeck's "The Grapes of Wrath." I read it, but rather than writing about it, I chose to write about how much I didn't like they way he ran his class and how the last four years of high school had been a joke. I had learned to put forth just enough effort to keep my grades high enough to keep my parents happy, and not a bit more. It was one of the better papers I'd ever written and he gave me a B, because it was an A quality paper, but off topic.

07-01-2004, 08:12 AM	#61 (permalink)
nonsensical Upright	This was a public magnet HS, right? So they have a ton of state laws to follow regarding who gets a diploma, etc. I'd bet money that "talking nice in a valedictory speech" isn't in the rulebook for graduation requirements. This is especially stupid considering that this is a school for prospective pre-law students. The HS admin just put themselves in the crosshairs of a lawsuit. Way to go, morons!