The good news about Iraq
 

Feel free to add any other links you may know of regarding the POSITIVE things happening in Iraq.

Assistance for Iraq
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/

National Olympic Committe of Iraq
http://www.nociraq.org/index_e.php

Operation Iraqi Children
http://www.operationiraqichildren.org/index.html

Positive Developments in Iraq
http://www.kmax.ws/b/goodnewsiniraq.htm

Rebuilding Iraq
http://www.export.gov/iraq/
http://www.new-fields.com/iraq2/pr1129.htm
http://www.rebuilding-iraq.net/porta..._schema=PORTAL
http://www.rebuild-iraq-expo.com/
http://www.revivingiraq.com/Iraqupdate.htm

Iraqi Project Statistics
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...0/202213.shtml

The United Nations Assistance Mission for Iraq (UNAMI)
http://www.uniraq.org/

Iraq Relief & Recovery
http://topics.developmentgateway.org/iraq

Thanks for compiling that.

It's crystal clear to me:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middl...t_pol_2003.jpg

I don't get the map ART. If you mean the fact that Iraq still exists is positive, yeah, but I don't know.

======

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...0/202213.shtml

That link is from Jan. 10th, mabye earlier. Call me crazy, but the situation on the ground has become rather more grim over the last 5-6 months.

Geopolitically, a free Iraq right there smack in the middle of the terrible area known as the Middle East is a patently and self-evidently good thing.

Don't you agree?

I think the map refers to Iraq's central postition in the Middle East.

That was a great compilation of links.

Thank you powerclown.

I was wondering where they hide all the good news. It’s not like they show it to you on CNN.

World War II (1940 –1945)
Total Servicemembers (Worldwide): 16,112,566
Battle Deaths: 291,557

Korean War (1950-1953)
Total Servicemenbers (Worldwide): 5,720,000
Battle Deaths: 33,686

Vietnam War (1964-1975)
Deployed to Southeast Asia: 3,100,000
Battle Deaths: 47,410

Gulf War (1990-1991)
Deployed to Gulf: 1,136,658
Battle Deaths: 148

Gulf War2 (2003- )
Battle Deaths: 803

Source

Re: The good news about Iraq
 

Sometimes, I have to read the entire contents of a post to realize that the person is simply spouting rhetoric. Luckily, people have started labeling their posts as rhetoric in the first few lines, saving me several minutes of reading.

I want to thank you for saving me the time of checking those links by revealing your overwhelming bias in the first few lines.

I would have never thought, unless it was me - i would have seen anything of this nature recognized here. Thanks for the breath of fresh air powerclown.

But............be afraid, be very afraid. They're coming.

I'm glad that we've finally replaced those weapons of mass destruction with weapons of mass huggins!

It's nice to hear about good, since the media usually only dwells on the bad.

There are many great things happening over there, but the prison scandals and so on really take away from it.

This isn't a politics discussion- nor really any kind of discussion- but perhaps it could live in General Discussion until it dies.

"Seriously, if your intent is to have nothing but a huge circle jerk about the situation in iraq...."

Hasn't that been going on for quite some time now. I think his post was meant to break it up.

Did you guys see when the toppled that statue?!?! Yowsers, i hope they swept up all of the little chunks of statue from the surrounding area because some of them might be kind've sharp and posed a safety hazard.

Powerclown, it would have worked better without the offensive links....had you posted just this paragraph:

"Iraq really is better off without an insane dictator. Most of the hijackers from 9/11 were from the Middle East. Most of al-Qaeda is from the Middle East. The region is saturated in ideological extremism and hopelessness. Bush is trying to prevent such a thing from happening again. Not colonize Iraq, but bring it and the others in the region out of the 15th century into the 21st century, so they can play nice with the rest of the civilized world, instead of terrorizing it. Dontcha think?"

It would have at least left some breathing room for the tilted left.

Re: Re: The good news about Iraq
 

Exactly, you hit it right on the head. I see this thread turning ugly.

Think about how many iraqis are having sex right now, as you read this. I think we can all agree that if not for america's liberation, many of them probably wouldn't be having sex at this very moment.

...holy shit, you gotta be kidding me. I figured a different perspective might irritate you a little bit, but one post acknowledging the other side of the fence amounts to a "love-in." Had that paragraph been all that was posted, you guys would have hoped all over it, funny thing is - that was his post, that was the point of it. But you got so bent by a few links that shed a little light on what's really going on over there, the posts meaning was lost. I know/you know, you want to believe americans are over doing nothing but raping Iraqi children, but it's just not the case. This is a politcal discussion analog.

Awww... someone moved this thread from Tilted Politics.

Well here is my thread: The bad news about Iraq

I thought so too, which is why im wondering why it isnt in the politics forum? Eh, maybe I'm missing somethign

Anyway, I dont think he intended to leave any breathing room... Anyone trying to form a good argument wouldn't... am i wrong?

Iraq has shiny things.

It's nice to hear things are going so well in Iraq, but being an American citizen, I'm a little more concerned about how things are going here in America.
The idea of a free Iraq eventually emerging and converting the rest of the Middle East to Western-loving democracies is an idealistic pipe dream at best. I have yet to see any substantive detailed plan to achieve this. Voodoo Democratization, anyone? Honestly, it seems to be more of an afterthought thought up by war defenders after their WMD justification ran dry.

I see Iran peafully sitting there as we take Afghanistan to the East and Iraq to the West and leave them isolated.

Iran's other neighbors are already aligned with the US. The ONLY one that could be of any consequence would be Pakistan which HAS nukes and while helping the US probably wouldn't mind Iran's alliance in the Pakistani-Indian games of who is going to attack whom first and who will be first to use nukes against the other.

Seems safe to me. Isolate a country that makes Saddam seem like Ghandi. Yeah, baby. Haliburton and W will have that pipeline yet through Iran.

Sure seems political to me. Also it's ironic that those complaining that the thread ignores one side of the issue sure did a pretty good job of "derailing" it to discuss the problems they see.

Since when is posting one side of a story frowned upon? I've seen plenty of posts about "Good news, yada yada yada happened" are they also supposed to throw in the "bad" side? Like "Yay I got a job today!" quickly followed by "But that means some other very nice person that interviewed for it didn't."

Also love the fact that people label opinions as rhetoric when using their own apparent criteria, the opinions the express in other threads would be labeled "rhetoric". Most of the definitions surrounding the word deal with the art of the spoken word, using speech eloquently to persuade, or verbal discourse. The only negative connotation with the word rhetoric is when it's considered to be empty talk or being loud and confused. I find no evidence of those things in most discussions. The majority of people hold beliefs for certain very real and very specific reasons. They typically don't just take others' words as gospel. Why can't everyone just admit that people have a right to hold their opinions and debate the reasons behind the opinions rather than discounting others' beliefs? I guess that just makes too damned much sense.

See what happens when I completely ignore Tilted Politics? The politics creep out to get me!

In principle, I agree completely. Problem is, the US has a disasterous track record with regime change. What we're really good at is clobbering one dictator and installing another. Anyone who thinks that an Iraqi state run by a former tribal warlord constitues "a free Iraq", please step forward.

....

Didn't think so.

My prediction: Somalia all over again. We're going to have tribal oppression and possibily civil war in Iraq within five years.

"whose stated purpose is to completely ignore an entire side of an issue"

It's impossible to ignore the side of the issue your referring to, you have to know that.

Im really glad someone elaborated on what I said with a great analogy... thank you! Your post rocked

it could be a good thing, someday.
the situation in iraq right now is terrible for the middle east.
If there would be free elections in the other nations right now the religious extremists would most certainly win.

I hereby amend all of my posts in this thread. What they should have read, in fact, is that iraq has puppy dogs and ice cream, yay iraq.

Pacifier, et al...
Thanks for the constructive comments.
We are, after all, on the same side in many global struggles.

Yeah, we really screwed up Germany and Japan. :rolleyes:

We had a little bit more to work with in germany and japan than the coalition of the willing. For a more recent comparison: afghanistan, where there are reports that many long for the law and order of the taliban. The u.s. is effective at removing regimes, but it leaves a little bit to be desired when it comes to filling the power vacuums it creates by removing regimes.

There may be people longing for the law and order of the Taliban (Was there any? They beat women and raped pretty much at will, I never remember Afghanistan being that stable) in a way that some Russians long for communism. That does not mean they are going to actively seek these things.

This deserved it's own post since it is so far off base. I am not going to address Germany now but I will address Japan. There were many people who said the Japanese would never accept democracy. As a matter of fact those sub-human yellow people could not understand it (compared with today's statements of sub-human brown people who are incapable of understanding it). The US pretty much went it alone in Japan. The US was in charge and had help from Australia and Britain. These are members of the coalition of the willing now. So your statement is not a correct representation of how things were but as you wish they were.

I just hope that when all is said and done they have a stable government, with a stable economy, and the people are happy. Hopefully no civilians will be hurt in getting there. It's a bit idealistic, but oh well...

I think you've found the overall theme of this thread. Congrats.

I agree wholeheartedly. My post above was just to say, if we think we can make Iraq and Afghanistan "free" societies and isolate Iran, I think we are foolishly ignoring Iran's strengths. They could feasibly be the China (as China fed 'Nam) feeding Iraq's rebels, moreso than Syria or anyone else.

I read your post as an American, but supplant it as a human:

203,000,000 in the last unpleasant century.

Source

G

it must be pretty rough being that pessimistic with everything. is it really that hard to believe that maybe even ONE good thing has come out of this. After 6 absolutely retarded posts and one that was way off base (yet somewhat on subject), i find it hard to believe that you MIGHT have something to contribute to this thread, let alone agree that there may be something good going on for iraq. I don't care how bad bush has done with this war, some good things have come out of it and it's nice to read about them sometimes.

The Europeans, America's moral superiors, are responsible for a huge chunk of that.

If Europeans could have been peaceful they would be the world powers now. Too bad the same people who preach peace now could never follow it when they were in the drivers seat...

We're trying to focus on the good things in iraq, not the posts filtherton edited to keep himself on topic (in which, by the way, i seriously agreed that there are some good things going on in iraq). Geez, at least get the whole story before you jump in here hanging from the coattails of somebody else's criticism(i still think comparing iraq with germany and japan is a little off-base). Stay on topic yourself. Now, if you please, commence the love in.

That cuts both ways...

If Europeans had be peaceful, America would have been slaughtered by the British military, who would have been undistracted by French saber-rattling in both Europe and the Americas.

Also I hear they're bringing back those silly little hats. You know, the Fez! That's some more good news about Iraq.

I agree with powerclown, for one have become very tired of everyone (including our own) bashing America. I will not go into a tirade because there are too many too often, but on the eve of Memorial Day I for one would like to say Thank You to our American Servicemen and Women.
And thank you powerclown for your post.

In 1941-42 when the US first entered World War II it was not clear at all that the Allies could or would win but that did not stop the Allies from trying. They concentrated on getting the job done and eventually won.

Shiite, if you look at the Hitler…..errrr..History channel it is still not clear we will EVER beat the unstoppable German military machine! :rolleyes:

So I am willing to wait more than a year to see if the job in Iraq can be completed. Seems to me the greatest enemies are Westerners, not Iraqi's who mostly want peace.

Say again in English, OVER.

Remember it is how to fight Americans. The Soviets learned that in Vietnam when the KGB funded parts of the US anti-war movement.

Now after 30 more years of Disney and movies that show that there is a peaceful solution to everything it is MUCH easier to topple the U.S. :lol:

Maybe you can chalk this up to my lack of historic expertise, but i don't remember ever hearing about suicide bombers in post ww2 germany or japan, i never heard about the time that the u.s. attempted to broker a deal with a former general in the axis military to create peace in a certain hamlet of resistance. Clearly it is not as cut and dry as "Well, it totally worked in germany and japan".

comparison with WWII
the Germans attempted to set up a guerilla organization to harrass the Allies after they'd lost - apparently it was a bit of a joke at best. I think the Germans had had enough by then you know? We'd been bombing the shit out of them for years, the whole country was shattered. I guess having nukes dropped on your country also makes you a bit war-weary. The Japanese obviously had suicide bombers towards the end of the war, but when the emperor surrendered, that was it.

so the main difference are that Iraq had a short, sharp war with fairly low civilian casualties (for a war, that is), and there's also the religious dimension.

back on topic again :)
of course there's good stuff happening in Iraq, at least the poor civvies don't get mustard gassed much these days. on the other hand, a good end doesn't justify bad means - i.e. just cos it's an improvement doesn't necessarily mean the war was a "good thing" or conducted for "good" reasons.

More links:

- Save The Children Gives Iraqi Children Hope
- Iraqi Business and Reconstruction News
- Iraq Infrastructure Reconstruction Program
- United Nations Development Program
- Iraqi Airways Making Ready to Serve the World
- Economic and Financial Reconstruction in Iraq

There have definitely been some good things coming out of GW2 from an american perspective but we have an international membership here on the TFP. Sadaam needed to be removed (or killed) every bit as much as Milosevich, Bin Laden and all of the others that take any human life as an acceptable loss in their efforts.

I think that the global community has a very different perspective on what is going in Iraq than Americans do. The media focuses on whatever will get them sales/ratings/ or advertising $ and as FOR PROFIT companies they will spin ANY tale that makes them more profitable. It is good to see that not everyone is lulled into believing everything they see and hear on the news channels.

Yes, I guess I can chalk this up to your ignorance. There was resistance to the Soviets into the 60's. Using suicide bombers or bombs is really not an issue.

Also just because people commit violent acts does not mean they are right.

Okay, you've got me. Iraq is exactly like japan and germany, we can all rest assured that our mission in iraq will be a complete success, and a healthy, pro-western democracy will be created. Game on.

Not sure where you got the idea that this fact was ever in dispute by me.

No, Iraq is not exactly like anything and the country that is formed will not be exactly like either of those mentioned. But Japan and Germany were no exactly like any other when the Allies set forth on their mission of democratization of them.

At that time there were naysayers, such as you, and they ended up being wrong, as I hope you will be. Crying about the sky falling without enough data is a hope on your part not a realistic portrayal of the situation.

I never said that the sky was falling anymore than you said that iraq was paradise. I honestly do hope that everything works out ok over there. While you may find solace in post ww2 comparisons, i am troubled by the more current goings on. While i may lack historical perspective you lack the ability to see the future.

I do know that many people in 1945 held the same views that you now hold about the future of Iraq except they were speaking of Japan and Germany. Most of this turned out to be nationalistic ego's and pure racism. The racism is what I see now. "Those people can't have a democracy!" Pffft! "Those" people are no different than any other people.

I may not be able to see the future but I am willing to accept that almost all people want the same things, just maybe not in the same exact ways. Saddam may have brought stability to the region but the price was not cheap.

I think you're confused if you think that i am pessimistic about the creation of democracy in iraq because i think a-rabs don't have the capacity for democracy.