Clarification of recent events
 

OK. Everyone listen up, because I have a few things to say.

You may have noticed that several fellow members, including some Moderators, have recently had a mass exodus. I’d like to explain that.

Our loss of their contributions to the site is unfortunate, but everyone makes their own decisions. It is hard to conceive that you could lose people who were once your friends to something such as a question in site policy. It is sad that such a thing could make them leave, starting false rumors and chilling the air as they go.

At no time is it possible to write a book of rules that come encompass all possible scenarios. It stands to reason, then, that sometimes a precedent is set based on actions for which there is no current rule. You all know what these are- these are called “gray areas”.

“Gray areas”, as all other infractions, are dealt with as they come- and sometimes that means making a rule WHILE people are committing those acts.

There was no rule in effect to save the first moron who ever pissed on an electric fence. The fact that some people cannot see that I had to make a choice based on what I saw as the outcome of their actions is unfortunate. Just because you don’t see it as being wrong, or there isn’t already a rule for it, doesn’t mean it’s an ok idea. To do something specifically because there isn’t a rule against it, is exploiting a loophole.

To put it bluntly, there has been some assholish loophole-fucking, and now that I’ve found out about it and decided to kill it, those involved are being immature about my decisions.

That's called change, folks. I know that change is hardly ever easy, but occasionally it becomes necessary.

I just don’t understand why anyone would think that I would allow bashing other members, or site-bashing, in their journals when it’s absolutely not allowed anywhere else in the TFP. There is no rule, precedent, or concept that we’ve ever communicated to any member that says that the journals are private. The journals have “discuss” buttons, and the latest 10 are displayed on the Journals main page. What about any aspect of the entire Journal feature does anyone find private? It is confusing, then, that anyone would think otherwise.

To address the matter of “private” entries- administrators of this board must monitor these entries to be responsible. There are some things that cannot be kept in secret, such as a child predator’s personal logs, or other illegal activities. There IS a necessity for it.

Now, just to lay down the rules once and for all on this, just so we’re not confused-

• Journal entries are NOT private.
• Journal entries are subject to the same rules as the rest of the TFP. Everyone on the TFP can read them, and many of them do. It’s set up that way on purpose- to share your lives. The journals are more a place for you to put random thoughts that don’t belong in threads.
• PRIVATE Journal entries MUST AND WILL be monitored- and only by the administrators.
• SITE BASHING is just as bad as, if not worse than, bashing other members. This goes for anywhere on the TFP- INCLUDING your journals, as mentioned above.

my thanks to analog and the rest of the mods for their help

Site Bashing behide people's backs is fucked up. Hell site bashing overall is fucked up. I still fail to see how people could assume that the owner of the site wouldn't check up on site content. There is no such thing as private to a site administrator.

So this is why long-standing users suddenly have 'banned' tags?

I thought it was a joke that I wasen't in on, where users with custom titles were putting "Banned" as their status...
Thanks for clearing that up Halx. We all know that you have the best interest of our community at large in mind.

Hal,

Can you tell us what constitutes "bashing"?

If you put something on the net, whether it’s here or someplace else, other people are going to see it, I don’t care how “private” it is….if somebody wants to see it, they will. I’m amazed that this shocks some people.
Granted, it’s sad that we have to lose good people over a silly misunderstanding but that’s the way life goes. This community it’s vision will survive with or without them.

To quote soemone whose 15 minutes are up,<p> "Can't we all just get along?"<p>Wow I thought this was over. Move along nothing to see here c'mon. Another bastardized quote either, <p>Tune in, turn on, or DROP OUT!<p>Some of us are pretty happy here.

This would be very helpful. I'm not sure I understand what site bashing is and what makes it a banning offense. It must be pretty serious if some of TFP's more prolific and interesting posters were summarily shown the door.

Stay away from negative comments about the community and the members. It’s all about respect. If you respect this place, the people that run it, and your fellow users, you’ll be fine. To be honest, it’s just common sense.

Halx, I again appreciate your explanation of what has gone on. Just another page in the history of the TFP and a learning experience in the bargain.

Why would you even need to bash TFP in the first place? This place is great!! If you bash TFP just because some poster's opinion is "stupid" well, that's their own rights and it is not your rights to say other wise and sure hell isn't your right to bash TFP subsequentially...

What can you think of that you would say at someone's house that would give them reason to leave you off the guest list for the next party? If you can do it respectfully, disagreement is acceptable. If you wouldn't feel comfortable having someone say it to you in person, it probably shouldn't be said. If you have what you think is valid input or commentary on TFP policy, write it up, word it tactfully (maybe even politely) and PM it to a moderator.

Keep in mind that, although this isn't a democracy, we will take evolutionary steps to suit the best interests of ourselves and our members.

Evolution is an ongoing process, but a whale can't grow feet overnight.

I don't understand the issue here. Tilted Forum Project is simply the best moderated forum on the Internet, and it's like that based on a set of rules that have been made continously since it was created. If the rules are against child pornography, site bashing, and flaming, so be it. If the journals are viewable by people on the Internet, then the same fucking rules need to be applied to the journals. The journals aren't a seperate entity from TFP -- they are a place to post thoughts that won't fit anywhere else. Asking for them to be completely private is simply unrealistic. This IS the Internet, after all.

LiveJournals are moderated. Every damn entry you post in a LiveJournal is seen by an administrator for the same reasons that they are here.

Anyone who makes a fuss about the journal entries being seen by administrators needs to go and buy a web domain to post their shit or a little $1.00 journal to write their thoughts in. This is Tilted Forum Project and its journals, not "Tilted Forum Project and a place to post whatever I want without restriction."

It's sad to see those members be banned, but if they're willing to fight against the TFP's rules, then there really isn't another choice. Good judgment Hal and the rest of the people involved!

-Lasereth

In the commercial business world, if your company found out you were out there badmouthing the company, you would be shown the door rather quickly. The same goes for just about any organization. If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything.
Hal, thanks for the explaination and thanks for keeping things up to such a high standard.

Hal, thank you for your direct words to the community on this issue. I feel like I understand it well enough now without having to know all the details, so I won't bother PMing you.

I can understand how someone might interpret "private" as private. However, I can understand even more easily how everyone should know that nothing on the internet is truly private.

As far as free speech and moderating go - I think there will never be a middle ground upon which everyone can agree. Private rights vs the Greater Good is always a good topic for debate. That's why for every one person who thinks it's his right to have a junk car sitting in his front yard, there's another person who's angry his own property value plummets because of it.

Civilization is a give and take between personal rights and the will of the community. Everyone has their own idea of the perfect balance between the two - but very few people agree on exactly where that line is drawn.

What reasonable person would have imagined when the journals were created that since we didn't explicitly say so - even though the rule stands EVERYWHERE else on the site - people would assume the journals were an area where they could bash who- or what-ever they wanted, calling them names and accusing them of unscrupulous things, all because we failed to specifically mention that journals were included in all other site-wide policy? Some things I'll never understand.

To expound on MrSelfDestruct's explanation of "bashing," let me just add that there is a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

There is a right way to stay in touch with friends who may have departed TFP and a wrong way. Using TFP to actively recruit members in an inconspicuous manner to a new site which centers around bashing TFP and those who work hard to run it is the wrong way.

There is a right way and a wrong way to question TFP policy and actions. Making a journal entry full of one-sided accusations of devious behavior is the wrong way.

If you have a problem with something on the site, PM Hal or any of the other mods/supermods/admins. We're here to help you. That doesn't mean you'll always like everything we do or our reasons for doing it, and that doesn't mean we'll necessarily always do the best job of communicating our intentions to you - we're only human too - but that does mean that we'll try our best.

And if you make a series of journal entries with thinly veiled sarcastic and bitter criticisms of this site and its people, backed up by the same kinds of attitudes in your posts regarding those people that only serve to confirm the names of the people that you're so obviously bashing all along, don't be surprised when you aren't always treated nicely and don't be surprised if you're asked to take your negative attitude elsewhere.

If you've got a problem with a person - be they a regular member or someone on TFP staff - then PM a TFP staff member whom you DON'T have a problem with and try to work it out. And if you can't learn to at least show that member respect explicitly ***AND*** implicitly (you think I believe implicit respect is important too? ;) ) then stop responding to that member until you can do so in a way that doesn't imply your hatred/lack of respect for him or her.

Welcome to the world of people being responsible for their actions, even when they're not technically and exactly what is said to be wrong. Common sense rules all, and transparently obvious, thinly concealed flaming is just as bad as outright flaming.

Well,

SecretMethod said it far better than I could.

But I can't keep my trap shut, so I always have to add a few things :D


To me, "bashing" is like walking into your friend's or their friend's house and saying "gee, this place sucks, your furniture is crappy, it smells, your mom sucks.....oh, what's for dinner?".

In other words, it's the things that you DON'T say when in someone's house (Halx's in this case) and want to be invited back.

And as SecretMethod said, there are two ways to say everything. You can tell us, "You know, I really don't agree with this policy" and nothing bad will happen (the policy may or may not change, but that's another kettle of fish). But if you come in here and make posts like, "The mods and admins around here are power hungry Nazi's" (just a hypothetical example), then don't be surprised if you try to login and can't.

Politeness and mutual respect, I really don't know how much simpler it can get.

well said SM70.

I had some thoughts on the subject, but all of my points have already been covered. If you can't play nice, get out of our sandbox!

I for one never saw any of these site- or person-bashing journal entries. I saw some (including some from the now-banned folks) that expressed their trouble and dismay at actions--not policies, but actions--taken by the site leadership. Was that the personal attacking that they were banned for? Or did the offending entries get modded into never-never-land? Or did I just never have good enough timing to see them?

I don't mind saying: some dear friends of mine just got banned. I'm really, really sad about that. I guess I see why in Hal's (and others') mind it had to be done, but still, I'm sad about it.

I just don't get it. I don't see how it can be so difficult for some people to abide by a basic set of rules. Don't be a dick, don't be a sarcastic smartass, act your age, be respectful of other people, and you'll be ok.

Like ratbastid, I've lost some good friends in this latest exodus/purging. And I did see at least one of the entries Hal noted and suspect I saw others which annoyed him.

My question, though, is given the long and otherwise outstanding history several of these people had, were they given a warning (and explanation) that they were treading on thin ice and risking a ban? It would seem they had earned that by their past forum behavior, despite what they said/wrote in their journals.

The signals were pretty obvious to me what the administrators were trying to stop, hell, just look at ARTelevision's journal. I could see this coming for nearly a week, the only surprise to me was the number of people who left.

This is a classic issue involving a social contract. By joining the site you explicitly agree to the site rules and standards. When given signals to change your ways, you should either change or leave. As opposed to nation-states, you have absolute freedom in this manner.

I think that is a good question.

Several long-standing members just got banned. Thats pretty rough. Unfortunately, from the explanations I have heard, it seems like they *did* bring it upon themselves.

So it goes. This sucks, but I suppose we just keep on going, right?

First of all, well written post, Halx. Thank you.
I must sort out how I feel about this, as I care about the board, but also the members-they are who make the board what it is.
I just started a journal myself, and I am not one to hide anything, so I would keep my journal public. Now, as far as the private journals go, it is only the mods who can view them in order to monitor them?
If I were to have a private journal online, I would know that it would be read by the moderators of the site-end of story. Mods have access to everything and should, in order to mainatain a healthy, clean site. On the other hand, private journals are our way to vent and let all of our emotions, thoughts, events out in order to release stress or what-not. But, my question is why would anyone choose to post negative thoughts about other members, let alone the site itself when they seem to be a very active, kind, respectful person on the board- especially a mod?
Of course it is choice, and there is a conseqence, even if it was not a set rule, common logic would tell you that the private journals are still monitored just like all of the posts.
Lastly, and most importantly- all my love and support goes to those who participated in such ways, who are now banned. Also love & support goes to the mods who are respectively keeping this board clean, even though those were private journal entries.
Even though I don't beleive in privacy, it is something that shouldn't be tampered with to show respect and that sucks about them having to get banned for their private thoughts, but they should know that they overstepped a boundary with their private thoughts. I am on a teeter-totter of feelings on this here, but I for one am not a private person, so it's hard to put myself in the banned members' positions.
Those members will be missed, it's unfortunate, but I don't see either the private journal writings nor the mods being right neither do I see them as wrong. They both have made valid points and can understand the views of each side.

I want to add one more thing: Thank you Hal for addressing the subject. Letting things flounder in the dark without addressing them only lets more rumors, and eventually problems get started. By getting it out in the open and letting us know what has happened and why, it helps to assuage people's worries, kill rumors, and hopefully prevent future incidents.

I keep reading that if you respect this place and each other then you'll be fine. It is more then that....

I would add, don't get on the bad side of a moderator because if you do. As soon as you have a little bit of negativity you are gone.

I have seen posts by some users that I just plan rude and then are not banned.

Then I see a post with an opinion about somebody that could be negative. Then that person is gone.

So, add to the list of things that will get you banned. The fact that you get on a moderators list. Then you might as well just leave.

No. It is only the Administrators that have access to "private" journal entries, not the Moderators, or even the Super Moderators

See above. As with other members and certain areas of the site, there is also limited access in the ranks of the "management", as well. There is only so much that a moderator has the actual "power" to do. And so should it be. It helps to keep a check and balance on things.

forecheck, 20 posts isn't sufficient experience to make that kind of judgment. That's my opinion. Communities and community interaction are more complex and subtle than that. Someone in your position doesn't see the amount of communication that we carry on with members who run aground of the rules and the number of times we cut people breaks.

art said this well. I'd also like to add that if you see someone flaming or doing anything else that's against board policy, click the "report this post to a moderator" link in the bottom right of their post. Sometimes, you may see something that one of us hasn't seen yet. Click the link and let us know.

since you're quoting me...I'll put in my own 2 cents

Just a thought, but considering the rookie tag, your number of posts, and your attitude, I'd hazard a guess your on your way to a unique tag of your own.

I’ve been here for a long, long time, and I’m a complete asshole. If I can hold my tongue when I need to, and show the proper resect to people, there’s no reason anybody else can’t do the same thing. Show respect, and you’ll be fine, if you can’t…or you don’t like the rules. Bail out! The internet is a big beautiful place.

Uh, no. In all the time that I've been on the TFP, from "Rookie" on up, I have never seen this to be the case. Sixate and I, for example, have gone round and round on several issues. Not only am I still here, I'm now a Moderator myself, with his blessings, I might add. Plus, if your statement were true, the politics board would be a damn lonely place for me. I can think of three people, right off the top of my head, that I know I'm going to get wound up over, everytime I read one of thier posts. But, and this is the big but, they are always respectfull. Both when crafting thier own opinions, or responding to one of my own.

When I go in and edit a post, or move a post to more suitable location, or completely from "public" view...it is a judgement call. There have been numerous instances when I have found a comment to be very borderline. In these cases, I usually choose to error on the side of caution, and leave it alone and monitor the hell out of it. Other times I will defer to those with more experience. In either case, I do not, nor does any other Mod, that I know of, go through on a slash and burn mission.

Isn't it obvious that I got banned from this site before? You guys are intelligent people. Quick Edit... I didn't mean this a s a negative comment.

Anyway, I support this site and their rules. Unfortunately when you have moderators, who moderates the moderators? I was banned before and I didn't have any way to understand why. Just couldn't get in. When I tried to sign in I just got a rude comment about.

So I came back to the site and poke around. But I am not going to get anymore active then that because what happens when another moderator decides that I should be banned?

If I donate do I have more latitude. If I donate do I get a refund? Probably not.

So I am not going to risk it.

So when somebody asks. What has to happen to get banned. Please add. "Don't get on the list, because they you have zero latitude"

Well, while I might not agree with forecheck 100%, I can say that this HAS happened before (to me). Yeah, I did report the moderator's post to...umm, a moderator, and I'm not really sure where it went after that. I PM'ed said moderator asking a quick question, and he/she was a complete smartass to me, even making fun of me asking he/she a question. I ended up talking to this person, and upon talking for a good bit, it simply ended with the moderator stating that it is NOT their responsibility to be civil or answer any questions that users have, and that the moderator does not need a valid reason to delete or edit posts.

I will add that this moderator does not have the moderator tag on their name anymore, so I'm assuming that this was taken care of...just wanted to say that there are a few anomalies here.

Overall, the administration and moderation of Tilted Forum Project is still better than ANY other forum I've ever been to.

-Lasereth

Just a point,

Staff has to play by the same rules you do. Since this person is no longer a moderator, I would say that there are NO anomalies :)

By anomalies, I meant different events like the ones I described. I know all of the mods and admins here are fine because they all do their job without taking sides. :) Sorry for the misunderstanding.

-Lasereth

forecheck,

The rules are always justified until you find yourself on the wrong side of them.

Now, what makes you think that a ban only means you are allowed to register again and come back? I tell ya, you're receiving some good graces on the grounds of hopeful progress, but you seem to be holding this grudge... tsk.

FYI, we knew you were a previously banned member based on your comments in another thread. The good graces pile up.

So when are you going to start feeling grateful for this? The bottom line is - you fuck up, you're gone. The rules are stated for you to read as many times as you like and it is your responsibility to uphold them. If there are any gray areas, you should use common sense.

Furthermore, decisions are rarely made unilaterally. We have several channels of communication in which we share opinions about decisions. While the rules may be black and white, we always want to make sure that we're interpreting what we see correctly.

Judging by your posts so far, it's not hard to see how a couple mods could recognize you as an agressor.

What exactly would be the point of explaining to someone why you banned them? They're banned. Gone. As far as they're concerned, the why is irrelevant, because, after all, what are they gonna do about it if they don't like the reason? It's not like Halx has a committee ready to override his decisions. Knowing the why won't change the outcome.

As for getting banned for one instance of being overly harsh. . . I call total BS on that. I've been overly harsh in posts before, and the most I've ever gotten was a comment that I went too far and a request to edit the post. No mentions of banning, and I've never seen the "banned screen." And the moderator in question was very polite about it when they talked to me as well. Hardly the nazi stormtrooper some of you guys are making them out to be.


Of course, when a moderator talks to me about something, I don't come back with "well fuuuuuck you! Ever heard of the first amendment? I have the RIGHT to say whatever I want on here blah blah blah you suck blah blah."

I know from adminning my own sites that some users are wont to do this. If you were an admin, and someone told you to piss off after you nicely asked them to stop their behavior, wouldn't YOU ban 'em? I sure did on my systems. Me not being an asshole about it when the staff talks to me has probably gone a fairly long way toward me not getting banned.

I also don't tend to make posts solely for the purpose of bashing the board or its staff. Not that I have anything to bash them about, but if I did, and I made such posts, I really wouldn't be surprised to get banned. I'd deserve it.

I'm seeing a growing problem on here that I've seen in online forums / chat sites before. People get too damned wrapped up in this place. It starts becoming an integral part of their life, and in many cases their identity. Then, when they see something happen that they don't like, they flip out. They decide to take this big ol' stand, as though they're thinking an injustice has happened, and "JUSTICE will prevail if I only stand up for what I believe is right!"

Only trouble is, there's no such thing as an injustice on here. This is Halx's playground. It's his world, and it gets structured and run according to what he wants. In short, justice is whatever Halx says it is.

What we have to realize is that this is an online community that we all obviously like for one reason or another (and no, not just porn). If Halx changes rules, and that makes the community one that you no longer like, then you are free to leave. Quietly. No one's forcing you to stay here, and I'm sure you could get the email addresses of the people you really like talking to, and keep in touch with them without visiting the TFP. This would have an advantage for the disenchanted user - he wouldn't have to deal with what he thinks is an intolerable message board - and to the rest of us - we wouldn't have to watch the soap opera that results when someone gets banned for going apeshit about a perceived injustice.

We have to realize that this is a fun place, and it's a place where a lot of interesting conversations can be held, but at it's core, it's a VIRTUAL community. Too many people are treating it like it's their real life, when it should be treated as a fun diversion from their real life. If you approach message forums / chat systems with that attitude, you'd be surprised how much more enjoyment you get out of them. In short, chill out. It's only the internet ;)

Holy crap, shakran, that's about the most sense I think I've ever seen you make. ;) JK
Good words...and all true.

I gotcha. Makes total sense. thankz

*a doff of the hat to :::OshnSoul:::*

pleased to be of your assistance. ;)

Shakran

I've had the same experience. My one misunderstanding, and it was simply that, a misunderstanding, was handled very cordially and professionally by one of the mods here. In general, I find them to be a great group of people.

The only place where I diverge from your post is that, this is a community that puts a great deal of importance on fairness and respect in discussion.

There is naturally going to be a bit of suspicion and fear when 7-8 aparently good members are suddenly banned. I think it can obviously have a cooling effect on free expression when your left to ask "am I next if I disagree too strongly?"

I can't argue that it is Halx's boat. He's the captain, his word is law. But there's an implicit trust among most of us, I think, that these decisions are going to be fair. Just because someone has the right to do something doesn't necessarily make doing it right.

The open discussion in this thread is how this gets resolved. We can mourn our losses while maintaining a sense that there is some reason behind it.

I applaud Halx and the other admin/mods for being open and giving the community the chance to speak on this. Days like this are never easy.

I am just trying to understand. I don't see myself as being out of line. Just part of the discussion I think. Sometimes one person says this and the other person says that. I don't call anybody names or swear.

But I suppose I pick the wrong topics. Thanks for letting me be in your good graces and only banning me for a few minutes.

If I keep in your good graces I will not converse with moderators, adminstrators or owners. I will not talk about this site and stick to the subject at hand. I will not disagree with anybody.

Thanks

I think maybe that just being quiet for a few will get you to where you want to be, rather then being a smartass.


I have had no discrepancies with anyone on this forum, and in light of recent events, I am totally clueless. To me, I don't really care why said people were banned, it was a judgement call by a higher-up and I personally respect that. I am going to dwindle away in the Interests forum now, so ya.

Keep up the good work Mods.

Damn man, go back and read what I responded to you before. Disagree all you want. Hell, I encourage that. How else do I learn. Just...be respectfull. It's all anyone is asking.

Hey Bill'O'Rights. I think I'm about to make sense again. Better get ready for it. ;)

I wonder why the members here think the moderators and admins are out to ban people for no good reason. Think about the consequences if they did that.

Let's say the mods were on a witch hunt and banned all those people even though the people didn't do anything wrong. Now they're gone, no longer contributing to the forum.

That's pissed a lot of people off. Some will probably leave because of it. Now THEY'RE gone, no longer contributing to the forum.

If the mods did it once, they'll probably do it again. After all, if banning people for no reason is how they get their rocks off, they're not gonna stop with one session. Nope. These guys are serial banners.

So they do it again, and the newly banned people are gone, no longer contributing to the forum.

And that pisses more people off, and they too leave, no longer contributing to the forum.

See where I'm going with this? That would imply that the staff on this forum wants to kill off the forum's user base. That doesn't make sense. If you don't want to run a forum any more, you shut it down. You don't waste time and money paying for a site that you're trying to drive everyone off from.

It simply doesn't make any logical sense that the mods/admins would do what many of you are saying they're doing, because it would in essence be comitting forum suicide.



On the other hand, let's say we have a poster who's been a pretty good poster all along, but who gets a burr under his saddle about some percieved injustice. He starts writing about it in message forums, his journal, etc, where others can see it, and he does it using inflamatory language that's guaranteed to get a rise out of some if not most people. We've all seen the news stories after hockey / football games, how the mob mentality can start with one or two people smashing a bottle and suddenly an entire riot breaks out. Same thing could happen here. More and more people read these disparaging remarks about the forum and it's administration. They start jumping on the band wagon and soon a whole inferno of anger breaks out, engulfing the board and basically destroying the community that Halx and the others have worked to build.

That old phrase "nip it in the bud" applies here.

Couldn't express it any better than rockogre above...
Private journal = Your own blog, etc. (even then under the scrutiny of the ISP), not a public BB.

Well, when the owner of the site says this "Judging by your posts so far, it's not hard to see how a couple mods could recognize you as an agressor."

What chance do I have. But I will shut-up about this because it isn't an acceptable topic. I have been warned, I was already kicked out for a few minutes today.

Thanks

I see a very simple out for you, forecheck. It goes by the term "learn from your mistakes."

forecheck, it has nothing to do with asking questions...I'm guessing it has something to do with statements like this:

The point is, just relax bud :) Paranoia tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy most of the time.

OK, EVERYBODY LISTEN UP!!!

Good...now that I have everyone's attention, listen up...because odds are, you're not gonna ever hear this from me again.

shakran's got a handle on this.

No, really, he does. Scroll up to his last post, and read it...word for word...line for line. The man actually knows of which he speaks. Now, you will all please excuse me while I step outside to see if there is a full moon.

*Doesn't really understand the rules*

Previous PM's to Mods went unanswered. *Is scared to PM more because who loves a pain-in-the-ass?*

*Probably Posts too much anyways.*

Check your PMs - I never got one from you, but I can only assume that whomever you PMed had real life get in the way of some sort.

I was thinking the same as Secret. And don't be afraid to ask a mod a question. Part of what we do is help members with their questions.

Halx is Oz

Oz belongs to Halx

Okay here is my 2 cents again. Would that make it 4 cents sense I've posted before, anyway?<br? I pm'd the man, Hal, himself a couple of times and received replies and we know how busy he is living the life of the rock and roll star. So the rude I was ignored argument doesn't seem to hold water and Hal doesn't know me from a speck so, shrugs. <br>I feel a little left out I've never been warned by a Mod. I guess I just read the rules relaized I was in someone elses sandbox and helped build there castle how they liked it. My opinions, i.e. posts have been accepted thus far so I am allowed to continue, good for me.<p>And finally, shakran, speak the truth. Good posts I wish I could've said it half as well.

Here we go again. I guess some purging is needed every now and again. I've been around long enough to have seen a few and let me tell you the truth, its always been for the better. Its their loss for getting banned.

I don't concern or waste my time over the crap thats happened. I leave it in the higher ups hands to deal with it. I wouldn't want their jobs. They have never let me down. I don't care who is gone and why. Like I said before, its for the greater good.

I come to TFP and go and see and respond to whatever catches my attention. No harm no foul.

So all I have left to say for now is thanks to Halx and the crew for their tireless work. I greatly appreciate it.

Glad

I have seen and read the posts and I have also read the rules.
I look at it as the rules are written for the boards they should be followed no matter what you are using. Journals that are public access and those that are private should follow under those same rules. You are using a service that is provided to you by the owners and opporaters of TFP , it just seems common sense to me that the rules would apply the board as a whole not certain sections of it.

We don't hold grudges unless someone does some thing really bad. We're people who proved ourselves worthy of becoming staff members, not the fucking thought police. People tend to be scared of us, just like the feeling you get when you see a police cruiser coming up behind you on the highway. You shouldn't feel that way unless you're doing somehting that you shouldn't.

"The clear conscious fears no midnight knocking" -Confucius

Quote:

I have seen posts by some users that I just plan rude and then are not banned. Then I see a post with an opinion about somebody that could be negative. Then that person is gone.

What tends to happen is that the really bad stuff that gets people banned is deleted, and you see a banned member. The stuff that's borderline gets a warning, and they calm down.

I sent SecretMethod a PM but never got a response.... Is there something wrong with my PM?

shakran, you da man!!!!

I think what happens a lot with TFP is newbies, who have experiences with other forums, have the capabilities of making flammatory remarks, use uneducated remarks about things they don't agree with and over indulge their conversations with swearing and are not kicked out or banned.

What I often see at TFP is a newbie making comments about what they think is a democratic board, yet there are non-democratic decisions that have to be made to keep things in line. They don't like it, so they voice their negative opinions. I did the same thing a thousand posts ago. I saw things I didn't agree with, but as I participated more, I found the rules are in place to make TFP a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

Bottom line: This is a place to come to educate yourself through intellectual conversation, be awe inspired by beautiful artwork, be amused from the immense cess pool of wit, be titillated by the Titty Board and build friendships from all walks of life, all over the world. If this doesn't appeal to you and you don't want to play by the rules, don't comment about it. Just leave quietly and close the door behind you as you go.


My $0.02

I've been to other boards without rules, and let me tell ya, THEY SUCK!!!!!! That's why I'm not there anymore.

This board has decent, easy to abide by rules and they are enforced. That's why I like it here.

I have seen rude comments and have either dealt with them myself in as polite a manner as I could (and trust me, polite is not something that comes easy to me) or I have reported it to a mod and the problem was taken care of.

End of story.

I said it before when there was a mild up-rising in here and I'll say it again now. I like the rules and the fact they are enforced, so I'm staying. As I said before, polite is not something that always comes easy to me, so the fact there are rules and I'll get spanked for not following them, reminds me to play nicely.

You could almost say it has made me a better person, but let's not go that far. :lol:

I can't answer for SM, but I answer every PM I get.

I've sent Hal and various mods a lot of PMs and have only received a couple of responses. One of the PM's I sent was over a donation I tried to make (it fucked up, I didn't know if it went through), but I never got an answer. I guess no news is good news! The other response was by a really bad mod (who is no longer a mod). In other words, I've either not been answered when I sent a PM, or have had bad experiences with it. I'm not sure if there's something wrong with the PM'ing system, but I've yet to receive a response from PM's I've sent a LONG time ago.

They seem to work with regular users fine...maybe this should go in the help section, because it seems more like a software issue than something with the actual mods.

-Lasereth

This is just amazing that this thread is still going on. I guess I just don't care enough or something.

I get to play in someone elses sandbox so I follow his rules. I'm not seeing the problem.

This sandbox has lifeguards so I don't have to play in the cat droppings, or get dog shit on my toys. No one slaps me around without someone finding out. No one screams at me or calls me foul names. I get to discuss things with actual, intelligent people that may not agree but don't try to run me off. Young folks don't discount my opinion just because I'm older.

AND, I know enough to realize that if I write something on the side of the sandbox eventually someone will see it whether I want them to or not so I just don't write personal things on the side.

Only site like this that I ever post on or spend time at.

I guess that's four cents from me now. Carry on.

Extraordinarily well said. Thank you very much.

Sorry bud, I'm looking into your inquiry :) Please have patience.

As for not receiving responses from people, I don't know if sometimes they do get lost or not, but I can tell you that mods get a TON more PMs than a normal user. It's not unbelievable that every now and then a couple might slip through the cracks and they'll mean to respond and just get caught up with real life or something else. If you send a PM to a mod and don't get a response, then send a second one saying "hey, just wanted to see if you got my PM since I haven't heard a response from you." And if that doesn't work, PM another mod - maybe they can grab the other person's attention or figure out what's up.

We're not separate entities here. We try to work as a team. So, Unless there's a reason only the one particular mod can help you, there's no reason not to try someone else if that mod doesn't happen to get a chance to reply for whatever reason.

I've never failed to get a response from a PM, from a Mod, an Admin, or the site owner! Maybe I'm just special? Nah! My wife won't even buy that one!

Intelligent discourse is extremely hard to come by these days. The ability to express opposing points of view without demonizing your opponent is becoming a lost art, but it has a happy home at tfp. Even the most virulent tirades on our Politics board are refreshingly civil compared to talk radio or televised "chat."
Offering the population a place to be heard without the fear of being "flamed" is a great gift. Halx should be thanked and praised for his generousity and vision.

Tfp is a challenge to the online world to come forward with ideas, thoughtful arguments. It's been billed as "evolutionary," with a constuctive agenda. If the internet is ceded to the loudest, brashest and most obnoxious voices, the evolution of the human mind will cease. If you can't leave the rancor outside the site, then stay outside with it.

Hmmm . . . seems as if at least some of the banned long-time members are back.
That's a good sign. Logic and understanding at work, no doubt.
Welcome back to the temporarily missing.

Well I for one, have no real idea what is going on, but I am sure that those in charge of the site are doing what is best for the community, and for that I thank ye.

*Holds up beer*

Cheers

That explains that. I was kinda wondering why when I finally return to posting, all these people were gone.

I don't usually post in these threads because this is my place to relax at the end of the day. BUT I'd like to take the opportunity to thank Halx and all you hard working Mods for the effort to keep TFP friendly and well intentioned. Assholes just aren't needed. Here or in real life. I have a positive story on help from the admins. I'd been here a while and my wife got interested. Well, she couldn't register under her own username because it was the same IP address, I suppose. Anyways, I PM'd Halx about it. Never got a response, but the situation was fixed in just a couple of days. Just a positive experience on my end. THANKS AGAIN.

Hi Lasereth!!
*waves*

:icare:

*high five*

Wow, I always miss big events like this. I still don't know -exactly- what happened so I'll refrane from commenting.

I am a guest....and extremely grateful and happy to be here.

Reading this thread simply reiterates what is so nice about this community and how it is run. It takes character and strength for a community to engage in this kind of introspection.

Dissent can be constructive or destructive....we should seek to be a part of the solution....or respectfully choose to go elsewhere. It is always our choice.

Let's leave all the baggage behind. Its not getting us nowhere.

Glad