F@*KING MARINES!!!!
 

ok as the title says, FUCKING MARINES!!!!

i will summaries the artice as best as possible but here is the full link for you all as well...

http://townsvillebulletin.news.com.a...E14787,00.html

ok last saturday night there was a uni student out at bullwinkles (a local night club) and he ended up having an argument with 2 marines (they are at port in townsville {my home town} for a little while). well anyway one of the marines decided that he didnt like the uni student, and got into an argument with him, and decided to smash him in the face and hit him over the head with a bottle.

well when the uni student decided to fight back another marine grabed his head from behind and stabbed him in the neck with knife and the knife dragged across his neck.

well yeah that just pisses me off. we open our city to these fuckers and they try to kill some poor guy. granted they were having an argument but nothing you argue about at a club is worth killing over.

just gets my blood boiling

ps sorry to any marines or service men or women out there, not saying you are bad, just these 2.

Harsh...

Ya gotta remember that they might have been drunk but there's no excuse for killing another human being...

Hmm... pay someone to fight and kill, and wonder what they're gonna do. But I digress...

As often as i pick fights with people, (and when i say often, i mean not-often... even) I would never try aggravate anyone packing a military demeanour or training.

it's all about my sig and apparently we know which side he fell on.

Smash someone in the face with a beer bottle because you decide you don't like them? Sounds fishy, especially considering it was a college student.

That said, don't mess with Texas. (<- non-sequitor. take that).

OK, they killed him. Bad, they should be punished, and they will.

But dont extend your hatred to all Marines. I know quite a few of them, and without exception, they are very good people.

Cynthetiq hit it on the head.

im not saying i hate all marines cause i dont. i havent had much to do with them but i dont judge a book by its cover, im just pissed that these 2 tried to murder someone. luckly the didnt sucede. sorry to anybody who thought i had a hatred for marines, i can see how that came through.

Something is a little quirky about this story. They guy was stabbed in the neck twice and had the blade dragged across his neck.....ONLY 23 stitches? I have had a lot of stitches in my day for cuts, slashes, drill holes, shards if glass, etc.....point is, 23 stitches is kind of a scratch compared to how they are describing the story. You would think from the reporting that the guy's head is about to fall off.

Ok, ok....I am not justifying what they did. Bad, bad, bad! It is a shame that 2 people who represent our country could do something as stupid as this.

If you guys don't bury these two, then we'll take care of them. Nothing like a good old, military court marshal ...

Matter of fact, they had better hope for a conviction in your courts, because US military prison presents a far grimmer future.

Fuck me swinging

He's not dead yet.

He's pining for the ..............................


Aaahh.Doesn't matter.

Hmmm, the story sounds remarkably one sided. I suspect there is more to it.

Not to minimize the assault, but what the hell is someone doing picking a fight with drunken Marines?

And another thing.

There must be more to this story than meets the eye because ALL MARINES that have visited our shores in the past have always been "out of the spotlight" and have conducted themselves in a manner that is "low profile",media wise.

Smells like three day old fish.

I think the title of this thread should have been "Fucking Murderers".

Maybe they were Marines, maybe they were white, maybe they were Catholic, whatever.

All of those are non-sequitors to the fact that they are murderers.

Let the Military Courts take care of it. As said above... the military can, and WILL always take harsher measures than a civilian.

^^^ i am sure they will, it reflects horribly on the Marine Corps.^^^

and there is no way that they should be allowed to leave Australia, i don't want them back ever.

I don't think it has anything to do with being a Marine- my dad & brother are former Marines. It has a lot to do with their "tough" mentality & most likely in a drunken state.
Of course there is no worthy reason for what they did, but don't blame them as Marines, look at them as human beings making a bad move. Hope something justifiable happens to them.

They are trained to kill, simple as that.

They are not murderers, they are not animals. They are people, people make mistakes. Sometimes the training they recieve gets used in negative ways against civilians. To compensate they are held to a MUCH higher standard than the average joe. But as said, mistakes are made, and they are punished severely when they do.

It reflects bad upon the entire military, who I think we can all agree, in the West are extreamly respected. The military wants to keep this, and these soldiers will be punished quickly and effectively.

Yikes, well if that's true, then that's a pretty low purpose of being a Marine. Trained to fight, maybe- besides getting a good education and experience. But to kill?

one difference, though, is that marines are TRAINED to kill, as the regular person just gets lucky.

I'll have to play devil's advocate and say that for the most part, the marines I have met seem a little off in the head and are always quick to get into a fight. They breed killers in the marines. The story doesn't suprise me (however I find it hard to believe the opposite party was totally innocent).

^^^ and I know I may be sounding defensive here, but you haven't met many Marines- besides my dad & bro, I have known quite a few others and they all have been respectful and not having a macho, fighting attitude.
Hey, a lot of Military people act tough, it's not just the Marines. But what about the non-military people who go around shooting or fighting people all of the time?

Sorry, but this is bothering me that so many people have commented as such, even after someone corrected the error.

THE GUY IS NOT DEAD

Now, what the 2 guys did was an absolute outrage, but don't go calling them murderers when they did not murder anyone. Not to mention that, as someone else pointed out, 23 stitches is VERY suspiciously low for "attempted murder."

The guys were drunk, they acted terribly, and they should face the consequences of that. I'm not trying to diminish the fact that they were in the wrong by ANY means, but the story presented here DOES seem to be extremely one-sided. Things just don't add up.

First off what they did is obviously not right and in fact downright bad. The second thing though is the fact that there is clearly more to the whole story than we know. The fact that they are marines shouldn't matter at all.

In all seriousness who just gets in a fight. Something was said and I bet both parties were drunk. The way it was described though does in fact sound pretty bad yet only 23 stitches?! I've had more for a little cut above my eye!!!

Something about the article that I noticed.....

"when Wilson, an African American with a shaved head, got into an argument with the student and punched him in the face before smashing a bottle on the side of his head, drawing blood"

It is interesting to me that the paper goes out of the way to specify that one of the alleged attackers is an African American with a shaved head and not just an American Marine.

But anyway, there will always be a few bad apples in a barrel. The actions of a few dishonorable Marines should not reflect the nature of the majority. I also completely agree with the Australian Judge's ruling not to let them leave the country.

I dunno, I'd treat is as any other barfight, involving anyone.

It shouldn't, but it does. These guys are supposed to be representing my country. How does that make me and other U.S. citizens look? What if two Australian soldiers pulled something like that here, You know at least half of the people who heard the story would be like..."Australian sons a bitches...I hate Australians..." and the jokes about them would fly. Even more so if they were say, French. All I'm saying is that it does reflect upon everyone else.
It's just another thing to hear about, that makes me absolutely irrate.

You should not base a marine on this incident, most likely these two marines were drunk sick...they should be....well punished badly. There is no excuse for it, but don't let that make you hate all of the servicemen and women of the marines.

I wouldn't think it a good idea to pick a fight with 2 marines anywhere, never mind a bar.

Hehe, that is pretty presumptuous of you to assume ;).

i would disagree with that. when we get them up here we know about it. its is good for the economy because they spend a lot of money, and they have been in a few fights. we have a thing called the bad boys comp (basiclly fighting no holes bared) and a couple of years ago 2 went in and got their asses kicked then got into shit by their mps when they left.

as for everyone saying that the story is probably one sided and that there is more to the story, i agree, but isnt that the case with most journal articles? still what ever happened shouldnt be an excuse to try to kill someone.



also as i have said, i am not trying to stereotpye marines as ruthless murders and the such, because i havent had anything to do with them. although i dont know any, i could imagine that they would have a similar arragant attitude to the ajs we have here ie: im better than you so dont mess with me.

Not defending the Marines, but this is not the first time a local has gotten the short end of the stick when getting into a fight with an American serviceman. The second Marine charged was just doing as he was taught, backing up a fellow Marine. It was not right what they did, for sure. They should have left the place at the first sign of trouble.
I was on a US warship that was visiting Hong Kong in 1971. A large group of us were in a bar, in town. The jukebox had the tune "Battle of New Orleans " on it.
After playing constantly for what seemed like hours, The group of British sailors finally broke. It was a real barroom brawl. After all was said and done, 4 British guys were in the hospital and 12 of us Americans were in the Hong Kong Jail. We were allowed to leave only under the escort of the Shore Patrol and not allowed back onto the Island for the rest of our port stay.
What we did was not right either, but we didn't start the fight, just finished it.

Why the fuck are the United States Marines in Australia?

Drinking is an excuse for NOTHING...

I'm not defending them, but if they weren't drunk sick I bet they wouldn't have gone as far as that. But still, NO EXCUSE.

on the issue of stitches, I had 23 stitches to close the surgical incision that runs from the top of my right arm at the shoulder to the elbow- how many are required may vary a hell of a lot- also depends on what type of stitch is used- I know this because my case was subject to considerable explanation to the interns at the hospital- the thrust of it being that it was bad to use too many stitches ( at the time I thought 23 was not enough either, if your gonna close it up, make sure it stays that way) anywho, the number of stitches is usualy less if its a cut made by a cutting instrument, rather than a gash or rough/ripped open type of wound......

No way in Hell would I want to spend time in a navy brig. The marine guards have no sense of humor. Those two jokers are in for some hard time.

i've made quite a few attempts at replying to this thread.

i am utterly outraged by the behaviour of these marines, in a host country (my own), attacking and seriously attacking some student (like me).

no excuses. they are an absolute disgrace to the American military and since the Marine corps is a respected and important representative of the USA, they are a disgrace to America as a whole.
if an Australian soldier committed this act in a foreign country i would be deeply ashamed.

why was this Marine armed?
surely thats something that needs to be looked into.

i also wonder, what was this student thinking? why was he anywhere near a bunch of marines who'd been drinking?

thats odd. he was stabbed in the neck. does the amount of stitches you receive make the difference between attempted murder and assault??

No it doesn't. We just found it odd that it was only 23 stitches. The reason the marine was armed could be a number of things. The fact that he had a knife isn't that shocking though. I mean it could have been a knife from the bar or just his own personal one.

They australian government ought to aprehend those two strap some bloody steaks on 'em then drop'em off over the reefs

...reef sharks are notoriously nasty

and anyway it isn't a soldiers job to kill...sometimes they have to
but their job is to protect life.

Captain Kangaroo, who died last week, was a Marine in Korea. He came back to the US and decided he didn't like children's programming, so he came up with his own.

Marines are Americans, and I'd b willing to bet that crime convictions within their ranks are close to the national average.

I'm outraged by useless fucks like Joseph Smith in Sarasota killing 11 year olds after putting them through hell

I don't think this is about Marines.

This is about alcohol and violence. Let's put blame where blame is due.

People commit murder their career is irrelevant.

Hmmm I might have to disagree with this. I think it is relevant due to the fact that their career's sole purpose is to turn them into killing machines.

FOLLOW UP


It would appear that attempted murder is now an offence whereby one can get bail in this Country and my view has certainly changed from earlier posts.

There is definately more to this than meets the eye but I am wondering why the national media has not picked this story up.

LINK

http://townsvillebulletin.news.com.a...E14787,00.html
........................................................................................................
Accused Marines allowed bail
By SHEREE LINEHAM
07feb04
TWO United States marines charged over an incident at a Townsville nightclub were granted bail in the Supreme Court yesterday.

It was the marines' second bail attempt -- they were denied bail when they appeared in the Townsville Magistrates Court on Thursday.

Lance Corporal Craig Mathew Meeks, 21, is charged with attempted murder while Staff Sergeant Beryl Wilson Jr, 33, is charged with assault following the weekend incident at Flinders St East nightclub Bullwinkles.

Police allege a 23-year-old university student was struck with a bottle and stabbed in the neck with a knife in the incident.

Justice Kerry Cullinane granted the pair bail on condition they stay at Garbutt RAAF base and observe a 10pm-6am curfew.

The judge also imposed an additional condition that they report three times a week to Townsville police station.

He questioned the defence about passports but barrister Greg Lynham said that under a training agreement the marines were part of they did not have any.

The only way they could obtain passports was through the US Embassy.

Mr Lynham said the marines would reside at the RAAF base.

In the meantime he would try to get the US Government to give an undertaking that if taken home the pair would be returned to Australia for court appearances.

This undertaking would have to be in writing and consent from the Director of Public Prosections must be given before the two could leave Australia.

The marines are serving with a US fighter squadron visiting Townsville.

I would like to apologize for the way I put what I said. I wasn't trying to assume anything, I should have added ".....if you consider this a Marine issue, than a violent or drunk (or both) issue." But that is besides the point. Sorry I came off as assuming you- I was so tired yesterday, I realized I was not posting, let alone thinking straight.

I agree. Although, being Marines, it is obviously not their duty or representation to hurt unless duties called upon in a war, fighting to defend their country. It was a useless act that they commited, fortunately the victim survived and now the 2 Marines will reap their consequences.

we have them calling into port a lot here in townsville and this is the first time something like this has happened. we get between 4-6 ships a year in for various amounts of time.

I fail to see how this could possibly 'attempted' murder.

If they wanted to kill him, it would have been quick and he'd be dead.


I'd like to know exactly what the student did to cause this.

The city of Townsville:
Hey, where were the Powerpuff Girls when this happened? Ddn't they get the Power Signal or the phone call from the Mayor?

yea they are trained killers, plain and simple, i was army for 2 years and they brainwash you, the marines are worse, I bet they didn't even have to think about attacking that guy, it's like flipping a switch for them

ummm, mate, this ISN'T America.
having the knife IS shocking.
why the hell was a foreign soldier, getting around during recreation time, ARMED in Australia (a close ally)??

people do not get around in this country with weapons. its illegal. and seen as rather pathetic.

sure, the marine may have grabbed the kitchen knife from over the bar, but thats not how it seems from the two articles.

We wern't there and the thing is they were all probably being assholes and bam soeone got hurt. Blame all around. Some one always gets hurt unfortuneately.

Possibly. But consider this--the best people I have ever met, every single one of them, served in the military. And they certainly arent going around killing people.

The military trains people to kill when necessary, not just for the hell of it. This isnt a fault of their occupation, its a fault of themselves. The Marines may have made them more efficient at it, but I suspect they would have attacked that man regardless of what they did for a living.

YA this story doesnt seem to tell the whole story. I mean first Off there must be more to this than 2 marines killing some college student im highly doubting they would try to kill this guy over some arguement, but hey i could be wrong. All im saying is i would like some more info. Anyways idk 23 stiches thats nothing my friend got hit in head with bottle and got 52 and if itsbad they use STaples not stiches. but anyways what they did was wrong regardless but once again id like to hear more about this story

please read the responces AND preferrably the article involved before replying. much of what you said is way off, and has been addressed previously in this thread.

As far as "killing machines," no, that's not what they're trained to do. They may _receive_ training in the area of firearms and unarmed combat, but their training emphasizes forethought and judgement. Enlisted men are trained to follow orders, however, senior enlisted, especially NCOs are expected to exercise judgement prior to action. Their job description not only involves active leadership of lower-ranked enlisted, but to be sounding boards for the young officers that lead platoons and to a lesser extent companies. Anyone that holds to the killing machine mentality must be having flashbacks of conscript soldiers from the Vietnam era who went through very little training and have minimal exposure to professional soldiers. Yes, killing, the will to kill, and the ability to execute that fact are part of the training, but that is far from "what they are trained to do." It is oversimplifying something that is an intensely complex process.

Additionally, as enlisted members of an air wing detachment visiting the town, odds are their primary jobs are either administrative, technical/mechanical or as crew on helicopters. Regardless of the "Every Marine is a Rifelman" mantra, these men are not regular direct combat troops. They have their BS training, maybe some advanced stuff for the NCO since he had to go through the Marine equivalent of Army BNOC (don't know the proper Marine designation offhand)--or Basic Non-Comissioned Officers Course. Outside of that, their primary tasks more than likely DO NOT involve firing a rifle or tossing grenades--or fighting with knives.

Strictly speaking, this looks like another barfight gone bad. Hell, when Americans have been known to murder their relatives over the dinner table (ie, a turkey leg or chicken wing) because they do not exercise forethought or judgement, why is it that anyone is surprised when two Americans escalate a barfight out of proportion? Is anyone surprised that a Marine might happen to be carrying a knife--one that odds are is a Ka-Bar equivalent, standard issue knife or simply a personal keepsake/favorite? Hell, any military in the world will train you to rely on your weapons, to keep them in working order, and keep them always at the ready. Wondering why he's carrying the knife? Because there's always the chance he would be on the receiving end of a barfight escalation or similar circumstances--especially outside his own country. He's been taught since the first day of Basic School that his weapon is his lifeline. Going unarmed for him is the equivalent of you walking around without trousers and underwear. Being without a service sidearm is one thing, but expecting him not to carry any weapon is naive at best--and unintelligent at worst.

None of the above is meant to mitigate the end result of the issue at hand--that a university student was attacked and stabbed in the neck by two American Marines. Rather, it is simply there to possibly help clear up some misconceptions and dispel certain hintings here regarding the circumstantial evidence (ie, knife posession) at hand.


Three men were drunk. At least two of them traded words. One got hurt. Sound like any barfights you've ever heard of? Only thing out of the ordinary was that it was two uniformed servicemen in a foreign port of call. That fact doesn't make them immune to the effects of alcohol, the lack of inhibition that is involved with alcohol consumption, nor to the stress of a foreign cruise. They go to a bar to blow off steam, an argument breaks out, a fight happens, and one man takes it way too far. It's happened countless times in other places, with other troops, in other countries. Sometimes the soldiers are on the giving end, sometimes they're on the receiving end. Just depends on the date/location and people involved. Pathetic and sickening to say the least, but surprising not in the slightest.

Actually, the Marines train soldiers to kill without hesitation.

hahaha, when we found out about that, there was a big thing in the paper. silly i know, but it was a big shock to everybody.

Ummm no. Perhaps in the movies but not in real life.

Correct, onetime.

I take it you never served in the military.. or knew people who have.

In my 2.5 years I've spent more time building houses for the poor nearby the base than I have in firing ranges or required self-defense courses.

Exactly. So many people dont seem to get this. Like I said, the best people I have ever had the privelege of knowing served in the military. A close family friend was in the Marines for 20 years--great man. One of my best friends from HS is at West Point--quite possibly the best person I have ever met. One of my fraternity brothers spent 8 years in the Navy--and in the SEALS at that. If you want to talk about someone that according to Plan9 would be brainwashed into killing everything that moves, he is it. And yet he is one of the most true, honest, and reliable people I know.

People have this negative image of the military that has only been further perpetuated by Hollywood and the media, which for the most part, is completely untrue.

Did you even read my original post? Do you have any firsthand knowledge of training techniques and/or Basic School content? let alone what they teach at BNOC? Do you have any experience with anything they teach at any of the advanced direct-combat schools--namely BUD/S, Ranger, Army SF (Green Beret) or the Force Recon training centers? Ever been to Coronado, Benning, Bragg or Quantico? Ever been involved in Basic or an Officer Training Program?

Let me explain this one more time for the illiterate: all U.S. troops are trained to exercise forethought and judgement. Some however, like the rest of us, fail to do so under various circumstances, especially those involved with alcohol.

If you haven't yet, go back and read my first post in this thread. you may just learn something if you READ INSTEAD OF POST WITHOUT THINKING. defossilize your thought process and open your mind up a little bit. take it from those of us that have the knowledge, have received training, and who know what we're talking about.

Simmer down kiddo. Your post only makes me assume you actually are a marine and thereby just reinforces my thoughts about them. Glad I am not standing next to you... who knows, you could have a knife :eek:



:rolleyes:

u should change ur title.. because people need to have a little more respect for marines/armies these days

We do training down there with the Austrailian Military...

but yeah, there is gotta be more to this story than what is being told. But either way either what they did was completly wrong, or it was self defense.

oh yeah, btw, it always seems that 1 bad incident that happens outweighs 100 good ones....

i agree. i wasnt tryin to put down or give defence personal a bad name, but when this happens you just wonder.

it also makes think 'will this happen to me next time i see an aj or the like in town?'.

Have you ever seen the Movie Full Metal Jacket. When it was released alot of people said it was very close to the real thing in alot of ways. There is not a problem with the Marines just that the goverment needs to do a better job weeding out the wackos...

Hmmm, 195,000 or so Marines and how many incidents? I think they do a pretty good job of "weeding". There's only so much that can be done.

Full Metal Jacket is absolutely nothing like what boot camp is now. If your feelings are hurt you can raise a little card and the instructor cant yell at you for the rest of the day.... no I'm not kidding, and yes that includes the Marines.

And yes, the Marines have existed since 1776, and how many incidents have there been? Not many. No Marines are not wackos... this article said nothing about the actual events nor the timeline so we all know nothing, and can assume nothing.

Marines are trained to fight why the hell are you gonna go start shit with um lol.

Semper Fi



Hey, I just got back from Marine Corps boot camp and they still beat you and PT you till you fucking die. There are still sucides like in Full Metal Jacket and the movie has nothing on what it really is like.

If you think in Marine Corps boot camp they don't touch you well...

You need to go enlist and see for yourself. :lol:

You get hit, kicked, hair pulled and thrown every way. :lol:

Don't listen to what any nasty civilian says. Cause, they know nothing about Marine Corps boot camp.

Exactly what hair are they pulling?

Diego or PI?

I guess i can comment on this. Being an enlisted Marine four years as an infantry rifelman from 88 to 92 I saw my share of bar fights and such. Humanity is the same all over the world when alcohol is involved. One thing is said which leads to a fight. Simple as that. Of course I don not agree with what these particular Marines did. We were taught discipline and respect in all aspects. We trained to defend ourselves and others in times of conflict but also to help people in peacetime.

As far as Shadow X's comments....I never got hit once and nor did I ever see anyone get hit in bootcamp, heck when I went though in 88 "mothers of america" had put a stop to SWEARING at recruits. Shadow must be a woman Marine becuase if memory served me right us men had shaved heads.

Exactly... how can you pull a high-and-tight haircut?

If you got beat the only way it would have been done is from other recruits. The only time I was ever hit was in self-defense class, and yeah for an entire week I got the shit kicked out of me. Outside of the boundries though no one dared.

Diego, and I was apart of Golf company they used to PT us each and every way. Our worst punishment was making everyone in our unit get into the head and get on top of each other and drink twelve water bowls and of course someone would throw up on us.

MARINE DIs STOPPED SWEARING? :lol: :lol: :lol:



They tell you when you get there or the Senior Drill Intructor does. Do not write home or if you get a chance to call, do not stay any nasty comments. Some people have been in boot camp for over a year as a punishment.

This is my last comment to this post. I can gaurantee beyond all doubt that Shadow X was never in Marine Corps boot camp. If you care to respond please do so in a private messege. Sorry about getting off topic...I couldnt help myself.