dragon2fire

What does every one think is this ethical


i would lean toward yes

whats your thougts on this issue


Jan. 26 issue - Sharla Miller of Gillette, Wyo., always wanted a baby girl, but the odds seemed stacked against her. Her husband, Shane, is one of three brothers, and Sharla and her five siblings (four girls, two boys) have produced twice as many males as females. After the Millers' first son, Anthony, was born in 1991, along came Ashton, now 8, and Alec, 4. Each one was a gift, says Sharla, but the desire for a girl never waned. "I'm best friends with my mother," she says. "I couldn't get it out of my mind that I wanted a daughter." Two years ago Sharla, who had her fallopian tubes tied after Alec's birth, began looking into adopting a baby girl. In the course of her Internet research, she stumbled upon a Web site for the Fertility Institutes in Los Angeles, headed by Dr. Jeffrey Steinberg, where she learned about an in vitro fertilization technique called preimplantation genetic diagnosis. By creating embryos outside the womb, then testing them for gender, PGD could guarantee?with almost 100 percent certainty?the sex of her baby. Price tag: $18,480, plus travel. Last November Sharla's eggs and Shane's sperm were mixed in a lab dish, producing 14 healthy embryos, seven male and seven female. Steinberg transferred three of the females into Sharla's uterus, where two implanted successfully. If all goes well, the run of Miller boys will end in July with the arrival of twin baby girls. "I have three wonderful boys," says Sharla, "but since there was a chance I could have a daughter, why not?"


The brave new world is definitely here. After 25 years of staggering advances in reproductive medicine?first test-tube babies, then donor eggs and surrogate mothers?technology is changing baby-making in a whole new way. No longer can science simply help couples have babies, it can help them have the kind of babies they want. Choosing gender may obliterate one of the fundamental mysteries of procreation, but for people who have grown accustomed to taking 3-D ultrasounds of fetuses, learning a baby's sex within weeks of conception and scheduling convenient delivery dates, it's simply the next logical step. That gleeful exclamation, "It's a boy!" or "It's a girl!" may soon just be a quaint reminder of how random births used to be.

Prince

There will be a price, there always is.

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Fallon

As much as I'd like to have a daughter and my mom wanting a granddaughter, I'm going to have to let fate take it's course when that day comes. Like that lady the odds are stacked against me, my dad had 3 sons to his 1 daughter, my grandma had like 6 sons to her 1 or 2 daughters. So I think I'm screwed but I don't know yet.
I've thought about this before though, but always felt I'd feel dirty and guilty in some way if I chose which gender my child would be.

denim

Yes, and that price will be other than money. Personally, I'm against this. Accept what you're given for this purpose or you'll skew the stats, which may be what they are for reasons we don't know right now. While some are getting families of boys, there are others getting families of girls...

Vespertine

I think people are entitled to the choice of doing something like this. However, in my opinion, I also think it takes a little away from the magic involved in the process. It just seems so impersonal.

Prince

The price is indeed other than money. If you allow this, then what's next? Skin colour?

While skin colour isn't next on the table, I think they could possibly find a way to "justify" weeding out the mentally or physically challenged, the low IQs, etc.

Unnatural selection.

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BentNotTwisted

Ethical or not, it's going to happen. Once a large enough population believes something is ethical or unethical it just becomes the norm. For example child labor used to be ethical, now it's not.

This is just the beginning. Imagine a time when an $18000 procedure is not necessary. Just take a pill before conception and pre-determine the sex of your child. There are cultures around the world that favor having one sex child over the other, typically male. What happens to these societies when every family has the ability to easily choose the gender of their child? Talk about skewed statistics...

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BentNotTwisted

I'm pretty sure people are already able to select the embryo based on genetic defects. What if you have a family history of some genetic disease? Wouldn't it be a relief to choose an embryo you know didn't carry the defect and thus your offspring would not have to live with some tragic disease?

Yes, it is unnatural selection. It's also called progress.

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IS THAT IT ???!!!
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Prince

Progress isn't automatically a positive thing.

Individuals, of human or other animal species, with serious genetic defects generally do not live long and are less likely to procreate. That, is natural selection. I don't believe we should be meddling with these things as much as we already are.

Sure, being able to weed out the "damaged goods" could potentially be an ideal for many people. But in this case there was no genetic condition other than that they wanted a girl instead of a boy. While I can see if not fully accept the justification for this type of procedure when it is based on "weeding out the unwanted", I do NOT condone it when its purpose is to please human vanity.

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pyraxis

I think it makes a difference whether they are actually weeding out unwanted embryos or whether they are simply creating the best ones they can to begin with. It's natural to want a physically and mentally healthy child, and if that takes genetic manipulation, so be it. But in this case, they couldn't just fertilize a female embryo, they had to make several and then destroy the ones they didn't want. While I'm not necessarily against abortion, I can understand why people would have a problem with that.

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illesturban

Now that you put it that way, I see where something like this could actually be good to at least have the option for. I agree with the genetic disease aspect definately. Who wouldn't want to have a healthy child born without the disease that is prevalent in their family.

As for the skin color theory; I mean, that's just a little far-fetched. Who would really want to change their child's skin color?

japhyryder

Five kids, man I am lucky I can barely afford one, must be nice to have the money to buy your own kid. Pretty sick

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Prophecy

You'd be surprised. Now for the selective child birth, I could see this catching on big in China if things were "safe and accurate".

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onodrim

Reproduction is one area that I'm very agaisnt messing with. Sure it might be helpful for planning if you knew ahead of time, but a great deal of the excitement seeing your child for the first time when it's born would be gone.

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Nazggul

Perfect Population control. Everyone gets one male and one female baby, then you get sterilized.

Actually, this would have avoided some atrocious bahavior in countries like China, where they limit population growth and parents were killing their babies if they weren't boys. Not sure if that is still a real problem though.

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World's King

I'm gonna be able to chose the sex of my kids...

I'm gonna adopt. I refuse to have any kids of my own when thee are so many out there that no one wants. There is no reason to keep making more until all the good ones are acounted for.

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lurkette

*spluttering*

How can you be entitled to choose the sex of your child? This is the problem, when people start thinking that just because we can do something, we automatically should do it, and have a right to do it. Nobody has a right to have a child. Some people can, some people can't. Infertility treatments have sort of leveled that playing field, but is it a right? Is it also a right to have attractive, intelligent, blonde, blue-eyed children? And where do we draw the line? Why on earth should someone be "entitled" to choose the gender of their child? Would you feel differently if they were allowed to abort already implanted fetuses that were the wrong gender?

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denim

Damn straight. You don't mess with the safety net under the human race if you know what's good for you. That's the main thing which scared me silly in 1984.

dragon2fire

after re reading the articale i have changed my mind this is unethical

denim

Why so?

dragon2fire

its the throwing away of embryos that make me mad


those are kids weather this soceity cares to admint it or not

amonkie

Nice to see the reference to 1984, that's just what I was thinking. Gattaca comes to mind, as well. Humans are imperfect, I'd hate to see people start thinking otherwise, and start tampering with their future children in efforts to make their kids "more perfect" in their eyes.

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KWSN

this has been around for some time now. the first child ever born this way was made to be a girl because of a genetic disease that traveled in the males of the family who made the decision. i think for that sort of reason it makes perfect sense and is great. however i think in general no, this could get way out of hand. if it goes too far that the world nearly-50/50-ratio of sexes was fucked up... that would be scary and could have bad consequences. however, i think in some animals it makes a lot of sense as well as it prevents certain-sexed animals that are not wanted for one reason or another from sadly being slaughtered, like in horses, with the selectivity of sexes for jumper and polo breeders. this also makes a lot of sense for cows... same general reason.

i think it's a good idea if it's done right.

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moonstrucksoul

i am not sure if you should mess with nature.

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KWSN

We've been messing with nature for years. Nature is there and we have the technology to mess with it, and therefore it is going to get messed with, that is pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point... not necessarily a correct or ethical one.

I think that messing with nature is certainly merited in some places but there are others where it should be left alone. See two posts above.

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Mr.Deflok

Go watch GATTACA is all I've got to say.

skier

It's a slippery slippery slope, folks. Just degrees of death in the end.

Personally I don't have a problem with the rejection of certain embryos. To me they are not people yet, and it's hard to justify that what "could be" SHOULD be. I have the reproductive capability to have billions of children already if every one of my sperm were to be implanted in an egg. Just because they have the potential to be something doesn't mean they are anything yet, and they should be treated as such.
As long as humans put their own interests first, we'll continue to hear stories that seem controversial at first, then become more and more accepted. I bet in less than 15 years it'll be a regular option for invitro fertilization (if you want to choose that is).

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SabrinaFair

Not a good idea.
Definetly not a good idea.

Allow me to be an anthropologist for a second. Say for instance a certain population selects one sex much more than it selects for another....let's use boys as an example. Although the boys can do all kinds of work that most girls aren't allowed to do...what happens when it comes time for them to marry? They fight for the few girls in the population...or declare war on a neighboring population in order to find brides. All because a family thought that a boy would be preferential to a girl....without that balance, only bad things can happen.

That's my input...

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Nefir

It doesn't bother me one bit. Want to make a designer baby? Knock yourself out. Its your genes you're messing with.

Would I take advantage of this service? No, but only because I don't want to have to answer the question of what kind of child I would like to have more, a boy or a girl. Its my kid - I'd love them either way, and i just don't care.

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orphen

Nah, doesn't bother me either. this is the future. Everyone wants to have a child of their dream so genetic enginerring's developement is pretty much inevitable as people want to "customized" their baby more

punx1325

I like the thought of being able to chose the sex of your child. I truthfully never want girls because of the hell my sister has put me through. I know it sounds irrational and down right sexist. But the thought of having a child as evil as my sister makes me never want to have a child. There is also other reasons that I believe it is fine, any genetical defect can be weeded out. Anyone who says we are defying God by doing this, needs to realize God made us to do amazing things. If he didn't want us doing it, he wouldn't have given us the power to change fate.

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Prince

I don't even believe in God, but that sentence just makes no sense. Does that mean that God wants us to kill one another, since he gave us the means to develop gunpowder?

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KWSN

no. he wants us to try it and see for ourselves whether we think we should make it a habit or not. learn by consequence.

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bermuDa

I don't want to see a world like Gattaca where IVF leads to designer babies and "enhancing" genetic attributes, where natural babies are second class citizens (or Brave New World, where natural humans are "savages").

This may not happen immediately but letting people choose their embryo is a step in that direction. It'll start out with choosing the sex and selecting for embryos not susceptible to genetic disease, and then it'll be selecting against low IQs, or blindness, or deafness, or small breasts, or dark hair, or brown eyes; where do we draw the line? The progression of the species relies on random combinations, but this unnatural selection is neutering the process of natural evolution.

I say you do your best with what you're given, both as a child and as a parent.

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omega2K4

Pretty cool stuff. I'm okay with people doing it, I'm not sure I'd do it though. I don't think having a girl over a boy or vice versa is worth $20,000. If you don't like it, then don't have the procedure done. It is that simple. It's their body, their eggs, their sperm, their time, their money, their decision.

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legolas

This is a very touchy and huge issue. A lot of beliefs and traditions are thrown into this one matter. Whether or not there is a god, what he gave us life for, how much control do we have over ourselves and so on.
I don't really want to touch those because it seems almost pointless. Personally though, I would not choose the sex of my child. I think it is too artificial.

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Nisses

this is not a race issue anymore, man as a race will take it's course no matter how it goes... Too many boys in one location? We're not hunting packs anymore, people just move away to other locations.

So it's individual... Who are any of us to say what is right for all of mankind? I say let the people who want to choose, it's their decision, because it's their child.

Having heard a parent tell his child he wished she was never born because he only really wanted a son, I can tell you it doesn't seem such a bad idea to have the option.

People with a genetic disease that only carries through with the male or female members of the family might also wish to have the option.

And finally, people who have already "let nature take it's course" and have 3 or 4 sons, don't you think they would like for once to be sure that finally they will have a daughter?

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tritium

Outside of religious debate, I would have to say that my fears of damaging the fragile chromosones of my unborn child would lead be to decline any offers from doctors about setting my offspring's sex.

I realize that determining basic characteristics, such as sex, goes hand in hand with genetic screening for predisposition to disease, and disorders. I can also see that this is the natural progression of medicine (making healthier people and addressing any future medical problems via genetics). But, because of this field's current pioneering existence, I am unwilling to place my future son or daughter at risk for receiving irreparable harm at the genetic level simply because the father, myself, is selfish enough to only want a boy. To be quite honest, when I reach that stage in my life (fatherhood), I will be completely happy with whomever my wife gives birth, exactly as they are.

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Yalaynia

One of these days I would love to have a baby girl. I love my son very much. But in his case he wants a baby brother. He has on numerous times told me he wanted one. Even when my fiance Tenchi069 was here he went so far as ask if we could have a baby cause he wants a brother really bad..I dont know I think Tenchi069 went a little green in the gills there for a minute..hehe. I would let fate take its choice. Boy or a girl it would be loved either way. I mean theres so many diseases, and disabilities that boy or girl shouldnt make a difference as long as it was healthy.
I know its the mens sperm that determine if its going to be a boy or a girl. I dont know how true the factor is but they have said that the healtier the male the chances of having a girl are better.

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Yakk

I see nothing wrong with this.

If you are worried about it causing rapid and unpredictable demographic shifts, don't ban it, just slow it down.

Do you really want the genetic heratige of humankind to be left to who has the most babies? Or would you prefer that it be that which parents think is best?

Like most things, it will drop in price to the point where nearly anyone can afford it, and probably have a period of exponential quality improvement before it plateaus out (if it doesn't we are talking singularity, which is another kettle of fish). So, I don't expect a long term "geneto/socia"l disparity problem (ie, won't be a problem for more than a few generations).

And, in the end, we'd end up with a world that is better off.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.