Ireland to ban smoking
 

Perhaps could have gone in the politics page, but what in the world....total nonsense

http://www.sunspot.net/news/nationwo...home-headlines

Why the fuck is it nonsense!?

I have the right to go into a restaurant/workplace canteen/pub/whatever without being forced to poison myself from YOUR second hand smoke.
Non-smoking section? Give me a break! Is there some kind of invisible barrier in between my table and yours that I'm unaware of?
If you want to, you are perfectly free to enjoy your oral carcinogens in the comfort of your own home. Or alternatively outside.

conversely I should have the right to smoke if I choose to do so. I think that when a state, city or country for that matter bans smoking entirely, it infringes on my right to smoke. I will be courteous and not smoke around those who choose not to but I do have rights whether I smoke or not. Non-smokers don't have any more rights than I have as a smoker. There are ways to work around this problem in public without destroying my rights or your rights. This really should go in the general discussion.. I'd like to get the whole boards reaction on this subject.

You DO have the right to smoke.
I have the right NOT to smoke (directly or indirectly).

There is a way of working around it:
YOU smoke in YOUR house where I'm not around.

so you're basically saying that I don't have a right to being out in public or in nature and smoking because you have the foremost right of being there? That is ignorant. That would be like me saying I was here first so you leave until I'm done smoking..

You can smoke in public. Just not in confined spaces. (i.e. indoors)

when you smoke in confined spaces...so do I.

Perhaps I enjoy rolling around in mud. Disgusting, I know, but hey I enjoy it. I have the right to do it in my own home.
Do I have the right to bring a tank of mud into a restaurant and start splashing it around, covering the other patrons, who may not enjoy it? No! Of course I don't!

moved to general upon request

is there something compelling you to go out? you arent FORCED to sit in my second hand smoke when you go to a restaurant, you are there by choice. if you dont like it leave.

what it comes down to is that you are infringing on a business owners right to make their own rules in their own establishment. if he wants people to smoke in his place of business, its his right to allow that, not yours or the state.

I have the right to go about my business without suffering harm from someone else. When you smoke near me, you are causing me harm. If you want to harm yourself, be my guest, but don't do it where you include me.

I also don't want my eardrums damaged from you playing loud music next to me. Do it in your house where I can't hear it.

And for goodness sake, don't run around with those scissors. You might put my eye out. :cool:

word :crazy: :icare:

People should have the right to ingest, consume, smoke, etc. any number of chemicals and substances in their own home. When those people chose to endanger peoples lives by their consumption of drugs, they secede their rights. Wether by driving intoxicated or second-hand smoke in publically open place, you endanger lives and cause harm.

you also have the right to not go where you know people are smoking.

let me put it another way. your right to not breate in second hand smoke is not more important than my right to smoke. but both are less important than a business owners right to run his establishment the way he wants to.

there are places that I've been to that the smoking section is a seperate part of the restaurant with it's own windows and doors REAL BARRIERS between the smoking and non smoking sections.

Now NYC is nonsmoking, and the people who live above bars and restaurants now hear noise MORE than ever before because people smoke outside on the sidewalk.

First of all, I don't smoke. I agree with a smoking ban in office buildings because many people who work there can't get away from a co-worker's cigarette smoke, even if they want to. I don't think a non-smoking ordinance should be extended to pubs, bars or restaurants because of the patrons. The patrons can always choose to go to a non-smoking establishment. Smoking bans should be extended to those places because of the employees who work there who can't get away from cigarette smoke and are forced to breathe it just because of their occupation. It's either a no smoking ordinance or let the bar employees wear gas masks! :mad:

I used to smoke. I understand the want to be able to smoke most anywhere. I haven't smoked in 11 years, but I'll tell you, if I go to a bar I EXPECT smoke to be in the air. I don't go to a bar for my health, and a smoke-free bar/pub just sounds oxymoronic to me. I do dislike it when eating tho. So...


This is my solution: Every establishment like a restaurant or bar has a smoking section with a good partition separating it from the non smoking section. Install smoke handlers in the smoking section to suck up the smoke and clean up the air. It may be a bit costly to implement at firtst, but the restaurants could be given tax breaks or something to offset the costs. It could work and everyone would be happy and free to smoke or not

I'm all for people giving themselves cancer and and causing themselves to suffer a horrible painful death. More power to you, but keep that shit out of public places and where people work so people like me aren't poisoned by it. It's easily the most disgusting bad habit on the planet. Smokers are absolutely the most ignorant group of people on the planet because not only do they not care about their own health, they could give a fuck less about anyone else's health too.

/me takes off horns and puts away pitchfork.

Words to Ireland. Canada should follow suit. Although, alot of Cities are banning smoking in public place. When I'm in a public place, whether it'll be resturant, movie theater, etc etc I want to be able to enjoy myself while staying healthy. If people wants to smoke go ahead and smoke yourself to death, but don't fuckin do it around me while I'm indoor. Why? Because I choose to be free of second hand smoke disease. When there used to be resturant that had both smoking and non-smoking section, the whole fuckin place is a smoking section. Simply because smoke can spread easily as air can. I can choose to go to a smoking bar simply because I don't care but I do care if I'm trying to relax while watching movie or eating.

If you smokers can't handle the fact that you're being banned from smoking in public buildings such as theaters, resutrants, bars etc then you should seriously step back and take a look at the effects that your addiction is having on other people cuz otherwise you're really inconsidertive (sp).

Does someone allergic to peanuts have the 'right' to go into any cookie/donut/coffee store and insist they don't use peanuts or peanut oil or other nuts in their products? Should we ban peanut cookies to establish this right? Bear in mind that this person is much more likely to be harmed by an accidentally ingested peanut than is your average nonsmoker who walks by a lit cigarette in a bar.

well after living in california where theres no smoking.... and then coming to TX for school... i have to say i like the no smoking at all much better then the smoking/nonsmoking...

This is a huge rage in a lot of towns in ohio. well, at least around here. I think it is worthless, but i dont smoke, but still, if you do, you should be able to.

It isn't the government's restaurant, store, place of employment, etc.

There are much bigger evils of society to smite, but undoing something that has been integrated into society generally takes a while.

I can't believe the reactions this has caused.

First of all let me state my position.

I'm Irish.
I smoke.
I SUPPORT the ban on smoking in restaurants and bars.

Smoking has been PROVEN to cause cancer. Passive smoking is also carcinogenic.

Therefore you do not have the right to smoke in a place where your smoking can and does seriously affect the health of others. Be courteous and simply step outside. Smoke all you want there. Be polite. Be considerate.

Don't be an ass and sprout nonesense about your rights.
Your rights END where someone else's rights START.

As you can see, even though I'm an addicted smoker, I feel very strongly about this. And for the record, the majority of people in Ireland (and the majority of smokers) support the government's stance on this.

So please keep your American "the Government has no right to tell me what to do" attitude where it belongs; in America.

Mr Mephisto

*applause Mr Mephisto* Well worded old friend

it is? could have fooled me!

http://193.78.190.200/43/1057.pdf

"The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed."

I don't. I respect shit eaters waaaay more than smokers... Shit eaters are at least smart enough to do it in the privacy of their own home behind closed doors to make sure they don't disgust anyone. They make sure that nobody else is affected by it. Smokers don't! I respect every shit eater on the face of the planet 1000x more than any smoker.

The topic is smoking, not any of the other things you listed. For the record, I'd support alcohol becoming illegal also.

I think this whole crusade of hating smokers is a bit hypocritical. There's been evidence of damage to health for decades, and only now 5 years after proof was found is there a major backlash. Cigarettes got popular because society glamorized it. I know I started smoking at 14 to look and feel more adult, and many many others did the same. It's our fault as a society this was been adopted, and like a poster above said we can't expect an overnight turnover. Till then don't punish smokers who are currently smoking, either by choice or inability to kick the addiction. Addiction is much like suicide; unless you're in the person's head or have been in a similar state you really can't make an informed judgment of what they go through.

That's why I oppose condemnation of all smokers...sure some use the world as their ashtray and are inconsiderate. Some smokers are good ppl caught in an addiction they can't beat. Because they engage in a newly unacceptable practice doesn't mean they are implicitly bad. Hitler was a vegetarian...does he get points for eating healthy?

I've stopped and started smoking again 3 times now and I blame it on having smokers around me all the time. :)

Mr Mephisto has it right.

Smoke all you want in private, but keep your filth away from me and mine when I'm in public.


*splck welcomes Ireland to the 21 century*

As said many times earlier, smoke all you want in private or non public places.

Smoking is a choice on your own part, if you have troubles with the fact that others around you in public places dissaprove to damn bad.

Others dont have a choice to stop breathing when you walk by, or smoke nearby. My father had a genetical form of alpha one anitripson (spelling may be off) its prettymuch 100% the same thing smokers get for lung disease. If you would have seen how even a slightest wiff of smoke in a public place would take some of his breath away you'd see where I'm comming from.

You think us non-smokers are ignorent to your rights? Get a god damn reality check, you smokers that poke your "rights" saying you can smoke anywhere you want are far more ignorent then we are.

Smoking is not a priveledge that comes with rights, it comes with rules. Rules of courtesy to others around you since you apprently dont give a rats ass about your own health.

I feel a lot better now that I said that.

Smoking should be about as legal as cocaine. Really, is it so hard to accept that a government would want to ban a poisonous substance from public places so that people who do not want to inhale toxins do not have to?

Erm...

What's that supposed to mean? I hope you're being sarcastic...

:-)

Mr Mephisto

Totally sarcastic dude...

This was brought into effect mostly for the people working in these places.They have the right to work in a safe environment.
As for smoking where there is food or people trying to eat, it should have been banned years ago.

No. But by walking in to such a shop, you won't find people leapping on him, trying to force feed him peanuts now will you?

smoking is bad mmmkay

All I'll say is I'll never feel sorry for anyone with an addiction. All addictions happen by choice. People choose to do the shit. That includes cigs, drugs, ancohol, and so on. Mind over matter, and my mind is more powerful that any drug. If you must know, I'm very judgemental when it comes to stuff like this. I see it as a weakness, and I won't ever be a part of it.

BTW, I don't go to bars. When my friends go out to places like that I choose to stay home or do something else. I hate the smell of cigs and don't want the shit near me. I don't drink, so why would I go to a bar? I'm not a weak dumbass who needs to hang out in crowds to feel like I belong like 90% of the rest of the sheep/population.

Wow, Sixate. Guess I should dialog out here with you instead of in the politics board, cuz I agree with everything you posted so far :)

Good point, CSflim.

I can't even believe someone would pull some report without any context and declare no link between second hand smoke and exposure to carcinogens.

That position baffles me; the next thing you'll do is deny the fact that smoking causes cancer. I mean, at least you have a filter in front of your mouth!

/ex-smoker, 5 yrs and ticking

I could agree to the fact that smoking is a nuisance to those who choose not to smoke, however, when you ban smoking COMPLETELY even in bars and such then you are stepping on one groups toes to make another group happy. I go to a bar to drink and hang out with friends because that's what we enjoy. I don't go to conform or try to fit it with the "90% of the sheep/population" A bar is not a healthy place. So why shouldn't I be able to smoke? We've had prohibition and I still believe that alcohol is a drug that needs more attention. Those laws have obviously changed. All I'm saying is that there are better ways to solve this than, "I have a right not to smell it" or "that shit is nasty" If the government really wanted to do something about it they could actually benefit from some of Holo's idea's. I wouldn't be surprised if you actually saw smoking only restaraunts and non-smoking only. That would kinda suck. I think the fans/ real barriers would work wonders and it would help appease both sides.

Everyone seems to continue to ignore the fact that DerBlitzkrieger pointed out: there's no study that proves 2nd hand smoke is hazardous to your health. The FDA study that initially spoke of the dangers of 2nd hand smoke and is cited by all anti-smoking lobbying was withdrawn because it simply had no scientific basis.

now, i have never smoked a cigarette in my life. this isn't because i believe i have moral superiority to people who do, or greater willpower, or desire for better health -- i just think it smells bad. i infrequently smoke a cigar or pipe because i think they taste and smell good. however, banning cigarettes in all indoor establishments is fairly adsurd. sure, i'd prefer if it were the case, but i don't think it is my right to impose that on every patron. 2nd hand smoke is at worst an annoyance (might be some harm with EXTREME exposure), and banning it without anymore justification is absurd. bar/resurant owners should have the final say on what is allowed on their property.

In America, people have freedom... until it infringes upon another person's rights. You have every right to smoke yourself (and only yourself) braindead. Here, you DO NOT have the right to make me smoke. And you cannot deny that you are because when you light up, I breathe in the same poison.

Now, unless something is created that stops me from breathing in your smoke, I will object to you doing it around me.

Don't be ridiculous.
there are dozens of such studies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2053840.stm

Now there may be some studies arguing the other way, but all I know is:

1. When I come home, at night, from the pub, my clothes REEK of smoke...I mean they are really disgusting, and I can't even leven them in my room at night, lest they stink the room up. If second hand smoke can do that to my clothes, I'd hate to think what it does to my lungs.

2. When I walk into a room where people have been smoking, I will either start to cough, or else (more usually) just get the feeling that I need to cough.

neither of these are positive things.

Give me a break. How is it that filtered smoke going through the cig, proven to be hazardous to the smoker; NOT hurt others around the smoker who are breathing in the unfiltered smoke?

Report of the Scientific Committee on Tobacco and Health
http://www.archive.official-document...o/contents.htm
Most Comprehensive ETS Report - 40,000-67,000 Deaths/Yr
http://ash.org/ETSreport.html
Acute Effects of Passive Smoking on the Coronary Circulation in Healthy Young Adults
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/286/4/436
Australian Report on Passive Smoking
http://no-smoking.org/nov97/11-28-97-2.html
Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke and Cotinine Levels - Fact Sheet
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_...tsheet_ets.htm
Environmental Tobacco Smoke: A Hazard to Children (RE9716)
http://www.aap.org/policy/re9716.html
Passive Smoking Linked to Increased Risk of Respiratory Problems
http://no-smoking.org/dec01/12-21-01-2.html

Health Effects of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke
http://www.oehha.org/air/environment.../finalets.html

Reports Showing ETS Causes Lung Cancer
http://no-smoking.org/july98/07-20-98-7.html

Fact Sheet on Secondhand Smoke
http://www.repace.com/factsheet.html

_________________________________

Yes, I am aware that there have been a number of reports which came up with contradictory conclusions. But to claim that no such reports exist in the first place is just blatantly wrong!

The choice to partake in something addictive is definitely a stupid, ignorant, and impulse driven choice more often than not. However, I'd like to invite you to inject yourself with one good dose of heroin, and then keep a second in your pocket for the month thereafter. If that dose is still there after a month, you can talk all you want about "mind over matter."

I suppose I'm just trying to point out that initiating an addiction is retarded, but being addicted *is* a condition that is very hard to just up and drop.

sixate's whole point was that he would DECLINE your invitation to shoot up.

So you're saying that he meant to say his mind is more powerful than any pressure to take drugs. Fair enough.

If I ever would shoot up once I'll bet my ass I'd never do it again. I'm the most judgemental asshole the face of the planet, and I'm 100x harder on myself than I'd ever be to anyone else.

Shortly after High school I began to drink. Never did before. I figured that I'd have some fun. Well, as it turns out I like, check that, love the taste of alcohol. I drank like a fish for a little while. Anything I could get I drank it, and drank a lot of it. All of my friends told me I was an alcoholic. I said that I could quit any time I wanted. They all said that's what alcoholics say. They just didn't get it. One day I had reality smack me upside my dumb fucking head. Here's the story: I was over a friends house with a bunch of people I graduated with. BTW, I hung out with the biggest pothead drug-addict alcoholics in my school, and never did anything with them until I drank after graduation.. Never tried drugs, and never will. Anyway, everyone was all fucked up. I was drinking a bottle of whiskey, and as I took a chug from my bottle a friend made a comment. He said that they all liked me a lot better when I was drunk because I acted like them..... I looked around the room and realized I didn't want to be like them. I was better and smarter than all of those losers. I left and didn't drink a thing for a long time. I would only drink about 2 or 3 times a year after that, and now I gave it up completely. As it turns out they all still live at home and don't work. They always have been losers and always will be. For as much as I drank it was easy for me to quit. I didn't stuggle when I did it either. From that day forward I have always/will always see people with addictions as weak people. It's a fact. Another fact is I'm not weak! I'm waaay stronger than any drug. I stand by my opinion. I could never get addicted to anything even if the shit was injected in my body. As I already stated. It's mind over matter, and my mind is more powerful than any drug.

I'm going to agree with sixate on it being mind over matter. At least twice, I've been on a PCA (a.k.a. morphine pump) for a month straight. Both times, mind over matter. It is addicting and very difficult to overcome, but not impossible with the right mindset.