I just got beaten up...
 

Hi all,

I just had a can of ass whoopin' laid on me. (claret and all) I wanted to get a cab home 4 us.. My bad :-)

My ? is? Should I forget it and take up Karate, or should I be myself and keep training to be who I wanna be.

PS: I am not naturally violent.

PPS: I can't spell :)

I think this post would be better served as an anecdote instead of a request for advice. I think I speak for everyone when I say I wanna know the bloody, gory details of how you got into the fight and how much of a painful experience it was.

[edit] And apparently, Hal forgot about me.. heh I think..... Differently :D [/edit]

Martial Arts is not to pick fights. Yes I realize that you don't want it but to defend yourself, and any other martial artist would agree with me on this. Personally, when I first when to a martial arts cool, I felt VERY weird. Just a "How the hell am I going to fit in" kinda feeling. If you can find a school that is affordable (and a good intro deal to test it out), I really would say to try it out. If you get a good school its incredibly fun all the while feeling more confident if something like that should arise.

I don't know you personally so I don't what you're trainng to be. I still think its great stuff to know. I myself am a very passive person. I would do anything I could to not fight, but if push comes to shove.. sometimes you simply cannot avoid having to defend your own. Such as the case you have just been in, sadly enough.

I'm not entirely sure by saying forgoe the karate and continue being who you want to be. I don't think Martial Arts will really change you. If it WERE to change you, it wouldn't be in a negative way. Again when you learn martial arts, the one thing you do know is that you don't use what you know to hurt others. A true martial artist would try to resolve the issue without the violence. This sounds like you if you say you're rather passive at heart.

If you're interested in taking Martial Arts, you should post it somewhere here on TFP and also search it out. There is more than just Karate. I, myself, have trained in Tae Kwon Do. (and a few other things.. my Instructor liked to mix many things into his teachings) There are many different styles and there may be a type that suits you best.

Yeah, I wanna know what happened!


Oh, and I hope you're okay :)

Well,

EOS. Thanks TFP. Had a good time.

Aw shit. Gecko. Can ya read between the lines?

Fighting threads are always popular, one of those things everyone seems to have an opinion on. I have one too. Winning a fight is more about the person then it is whatever style they're trying to use. Workout, stay calm and learn how to throw and take a punch, get that down and then worry about the fancy stuff, just remember most martial arts aren't very practical, and will more then likely earn you a beating. I'd say look into whatever they teach in the military, I believe it's some form of Judo.

I never got in a fight in my life. I've always wondered what getting punched feels like =|

How often do you get your ass kicked not being a violent guy? Like maybe once or twice? There is no need to get into all the shit of martial arts just in hope that you do get another fight. And really unless you're years and years into it... it don't mean shit.

Whooooooo there buddy, are you forgetting that Judo is a martial art. I don't think you've done your research, because what Gakface said earlier was more than slightly true. The martial arts are about fighting, maybe not what the teach at the YMCA, but real martial arts can prepare you for all sorts of situations in which you won't get beat up.

I'd love to see you take on Gakface, for instance... He may be a bit scrawny, and I may be considerably stronger than him, but I'm not stupid enough to try and lay a hand on him. He'd kick my arrs.

I suggest that you think before you post Phaenx, it might do you some good... How does training in a fighting art earn you a beating? It's a fricking FIGHTING ART!!!

You could be a non violent asshole. Working out has the added benefit of making you look hot at least though.

this reminds me of a funny story.

when i was in 8th grade, this little kid who had a little big man complex, he was in the 7th grade at the time, decided to get tough and make fun of me in the middle of an assembly (i have mild cerebral palsy), so i turned around, pulled him down into my lap and punched the shit out of him with my ONE GOOD HAND. suffice it say, he lost his complex. Neither of us got in trouble with the faculty, I, because they liked the fact that a disabled kid beat up his victimizer, and he, because they figured the shame was apparent enough.

does that satisfy everyone's need to hear a fight story?

Ill second that :D Tell us what happened!

I dont think I have ever been in a fight other than the normal sibling stuff--I used to get in quite a few fistfights with my brother, but I was like 11, 12, 13 at the time, it doesnt really count.

You're better off not knowing. Some people hit like bitches, but I've taken a few hard shots. It wasn't fun, but I didn't lose the fight. :D I did have a black eye for about 3 weeks. The white of my eye was completely red. That didn't go away for over a month. :mad:

Mad_Gecko, are you gonna tell us what happened?! I wanna know too.

Yeah, I know it would suck to get in a fight, but I think I probably need to at least once.

That's one of the best and most uplifting fight stories I've heard. I wish I had been there to see it.

Bravo!

Phaenx did you just saying working to be non violent works?

I mean I agree with Basmoq though. First off Judo IS a form of Martal Arts. Further more how does me knowing Martial Arts make me get into a beating? I have yet to get into a fight personally, but I remember when I told someone in Highschool that I was a Brown Belt. The news went through the school like wild fire. Heck I had people asking me about it... people that I never saw before (big high school). It never provoked a fight though.

I did? I thought I said to look into (the martial art) Judo because I think the military uses it (i.e. it's not impractical).

The other crazy jump around and what not styles won't get you into a fight, it will make you lose said fight. I've been in lots of fights, if someone has the prescense of mind whilst spraying the deck down with testosterone, watch someone try to use it, most people will deflect/block most of the energy and absorb the rest, then tackle you and make you their bitch while you're unbalanced.

It may be a good deterrant, but I honestly don't think a belt helps you much.

Yeah, I get what you are saying. What the Army teaches is meant to be very practical, and easy to use by soldiers without a lot of practice in it. A martial art would likely (I would think, I dont practice any) require a *lot* of practice before one was able to use it very well in a fight.

Those guys that jump around and try to kick your head and such still get their asses handed to them in UCF. A fight 90% of the time just degenerates to trying to knock the other guy down and beat him up anyways, and all of that nonsense won't help you then. I'd say, in my opinion, get ripped (buy a punching bag even, it will help you with getting in shape and learning to throw a punch) and learn how to throw a punch.

There are some cool pressure point holds and such I learned from a friend of mine, but they won't help you if someone is drastically stronger then you are.

That's something that bugs me too, when the "black belt master senseis" say that a 90 year old grandmother will be able to disable a 230lb man in 5 seconds with one hand using their techniques. Bullshit. I'd love to actually fight said "masters," bring on the shaolin monks too, it's past time they got a beating, PHAENX STYLE!

Your full of it Phaenx, your vision of martial arts extends no farther than what you see on tv. Real martial artists don't look like models and fight like wimps. Go to your nearest dojo, and ask the sensei if he will spar with you, I garantee you'll get the beating of your life...

When did I mention TV ever besides UCF? I'm pretty sure all of my evidence was first hand evidence, in person watching some kid getting beat up, I've even defended myself against some dumbass trying to karate me before. He fought like a wimp, the other people I've seen get beat up fought like wimps, and the choads in UCF who use those styles fight like wimps. Do you have any first hand experience to the contrary? Because "you're full of it" won't cut it.

I'll go down to a dojo tommorow and bring a digital camera. I garauntee they won't do it but I'll go down there none-the-less.

Phaenx, I know what some of the styles your thinking of. At the moment I'm at a loss of words (for their names)... Those types yeah.. but is EVERY martial art trying to jump kick their way to someone's head? If you want to answer yes, then you need to do some SERIOUS research. Your post (that I responded to), sounded like you were saying that martial arts are dumb, but Judo is good.

Pressure Points. I have yet to hear anyone (aside from you) say that a 90 year old grandmother will be able to disable a 230lb man in 5 seconds with one hand. Nope, never heard that. But I have heard how someone a lot smaller can take down a larger person. Shit I've use pressure points on people that could easily beat me up. That said, They are definately worth it. There is a man.. Dillman. He is the foremost Pressure Point guy in the States. He's also a good friend of my Instructor. This guy looks like Scottie from the original Star Trek, kinda sounds like him, and he likes to drink.... a lot. :D He can find pressure points BLINDFOLDED... I've seen him do it. Heck, he once just... touched... my arm. The actual pressure was seriously not much lighter than a mere touch, but if I were to say that I didn't immedately fall to the ground, then I'd be lying. With enough practice, you can just take people down without a second thought.

My training hasn't taught me to jump around like Bonkers (remember him? ;)), so I wouldn't be doing what you seem to imply most styles do.

SOME, not ALL, so you have no room to judge on this.

I bold faced that word on purpose. See one of the main things you're taught to do is to KEEP YOUR BALANCE. So if you're relying on a martial artist to lose their balance, you're about to get your ass whooped. Point Blank. You're taught how to attack and defend all the while keeping your balance. Another thing you're taught is to stand a certain way with your body so that your chest is not open to attack. Also when I know how to parry your punch.... and yes I can do it, how does that help you? It merely only throws your energy with the flow of my punch. Parry, grab the arm, pull with your body, then punch you in the floating ribs with my other arm... Yes quite effective for you, huh?

As Basmoq said, if you faught a master, you'd be down in a matter of seconds....

Yes, I speak from first hand. I have been in it long enough to be Black Belt standing, but a semester or two of college classes that made me write more papers than I think you ever should in such a short time span prevented me from remembering my forms to get to the next belt. Because of this I'm a Red Belt. So yes, I do speak from personal experience. Aside from calling peole wimps.... What i'm really pissed about is how you said, you WATCHED someone get beat up! WHY didn't you intervene and break the fight up? . . . .

They deserved it. Happened about 2 months ago outside K-Mart

I've heard this more then once, and said people continuously get destroyed when they actually get into a fight. I of course disagree, there will be a matter of seconds but that will only be until there's two people on the ground wrestling.

Given there are less sissy fighting arts (aforementioned) but they don't stack up against physical prowess and aggression even then, I've got an edge on the wrestling jazz (an efficient fighting style as well), and what do you do when a big guy wraps you up and takes you down? Punch me in the face? I've been punched in the face before, put me in a hold? I'll bite you. I'm also likely going to be a lot stronger then said "master," if you can get me in a hold to start with then you deserve congratulations, but a headlock has never stopped me from picking someone up and dropping them on the head (I grew up the youngest of 5 brothers and a sister, sadistic bastards all).

Hell, I'll give you my address and demonstrate if you want to send fatty mc'drunk over to my house. He can take me to a strip joint after. After he admits the power of the Dark Side.

-- I can't believe I just read this.

-- I've seen numerous fights.. not too many of them end up on the ground....

-- Sorry, not all holds keep your mouth in reach of me... I can think of one in particular where you become a human body shield... no arms or mouth can touch me (other than the arm that I am holding).

-- You have just lost all respect from me with this comment.

You are right and you are wrong. I'm 24, I've trained in shótó-kan for the last 16 years of my life. I've dabbled in some of the other styles. I've a black belt, all it is good for is holding up my pants. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a moron. For the first few years of the average martial artist's training, his training probably puts him at a disadvantage in a fight. Because he still thinks. Instead of throwing a punch he will try to think what technique he should use. Since he is thinking, he is slow. While he is thinking you will knock the shit out of him. After a point, the training will benefit a martial artist in a fight. Estimating extremely conservatively, I've thrown minimally 3 million punches in my life (500/day, 7days/week, 52days/year, 16years); I’ve also done the same amount of sit ups and push ups as part of my training. I'd imagine even you would admit the advantage this combination could be in a fight. By this point, muscle memory has taken over. If I am not extremely aware of my actions, I move by reflex instead of thought.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I would win in a fight against anyone. I'm not even saying I could kick your ass, I don't know you from Adam, and that is not my point.

Side point: Boxing and wrestling are martial arts, certainly you don't think training in either of those sports would make someone less fit in a brawl.

Hey if "Fatty Mc'Drunk" drops you like a bad habit, I want pics, by the way my e-mail is available. Please send them soon. I could always use a good laugh.

I'm just lucky I've never been on the bad business end of any of the minor altercations I've had. I have been the "Fatty McDrunk" one or twice though. Sufficed to say a woman has been involved every time. *shakes fist in air* Damn them all!!!!

Owned.

No I've said quite specifically from the beggining that there are some that don't, specifically those used by the military, wrestling, and perhaps boxing even as well, straightforward and efficient, not elaborate and ineffective. Mostly though, martial arts is a fairly large waste of time, some of the styles are way overrated in my opinion.

I assume you are addresssing just my last point about boxing and wrestling.

How well do you know most martial arts? I suspect your experience with them is limited. I've my own biases; I think kempo is a joke, and tae kwan do (which I suspect you are most familiar with) is a less useful version of shótó-kan because of its emphasis on kicking, making it a less than ideal form for close quarters combat. However we may view a martial art does not change the fact that someone who has thrown a million or more punches is better prepared for a fight than someone who hasn't thrown a punch in his life.

fyi:
Elements from aikido, kung fu, shótó-kan, tae kawn do, jeet kune do and several other martial arts have been incorporated into various branches of the US military's training programs. Besides most martial arts share techniques. Which means the majority of martial artists study a form of martial arts that is (in part) used by the military.

So I goes to the' I just got beat up' thread and a martial arts discussion breaks out.

Yeah I'd Heard how lots of people think TKD is more of a joke, yet my instructor seems to be an exception. I say the name to people who know the area and they decide to take it back. ;) Of course, my instructor is also adaptable, which adds to the variety.

(Just thought I'd add that in there Phaedrus)

OFKU0: And you're going to say....?

I'm going to say I want to hear how Mad_Gecko got beat not how one form of this,that or the other is better or worse.

Mad_Gecko I am pleading with you. Save this thread.;)

Start carrying a billy club. I got this retractable metal club from Japan. It folds up to about 4 inches, but extends to over a foot and it's solid metal. That will scare some people away, or, if it comes down to it, will crack some serious skulls.

Its also illegal in almost every state.

You really should have pointed out that the differences between TKD and shótó-kan are minimal. The first several kata (at least) are even the same. My objection to TKD is the emphasis many of its practitioners place on kicking, sometimes to the almost complete exclusion of other techniques. If you are like the majority, not adaptable, then TKD is not well rounded enough for my taste.

Mad_Geek: As best as I can guage, grappling and boxing are your best bets if you want to learn how to handle things. Boxers seem to have the best record as far as out-of-sport fighting goes, but you can't use it if you're rolling on the ground, so grappling should be thrown in there.

Also note that there are MANY types of TKD out there- some are better than others- just out of curiosity Gak face, what type do you do? I did ITF TKD for 7 years, cross trained w/ judo, akido, and several bouncers. I have been in a serious brawl, and watched a man go to the ground, where he was stomped to a bloody pulp (and required hospitalization) IMHO good cross training and sense it the best recipee for not winding up this way- Also- most credible martial artists arent going to jump around and make the kind of mistakes Phaenx seems to think they will...

Sometimes people underestimate what they have not experienced for themselves. Go fight a master. I'll send you a get-well card afterwards. Besides, most would just put you down before a fight could start. They're not usually into beating people up just because they ask for it.

Tell me who he is. I'll kick his ass fo' you.

Pussies I say. I've experienced plenty of it, how can some goober whose studied books and practiced with people with pads and shit on trying to score points ever perform in a real fight? They haven't, at least the ones I've had the pleasure of beating on (they started it). Also, like I said before, if you check out a place where they take people of all studies and let them duke it out, you'll see I'm right. Stop being condescending as well, it's pissing me off.

Anyways, on top of being in shape (which is the most important) boxing/wrestling/grappling I'd say are the best way to win a fight.

To interject my small bit of knowledge in this discussion: The dojo masters who would rape you, the ones that they (analog, Gak Face, etc.) have been talking about, are precisely the ones that would not initiate a fight - because they're secure of their knowledge and don't feel the need to go beat people up for fun.

Sure, that's convenient.

Since Mad_Gecko isn't going to tell us about his adventure, one thing I've notice is that no one has commented on is the survival aspect of conflict, or in other words kill or be killed.

I've seen guys get beat up,not because they are not tough or don't know how to fight, but because they lack the survival instinct. And when it does kick in it is to late,they have already been beaten.

I've also seen martial arts guys getting booted in the head repeated ,not because they didn't know what they were doing,just because they run into a street brawler who has lots of experience fighting,can take any shot repeatedly and is psycho. Kill or be killed.

Damn straight! That's how it works in the real world.

Not all martial artists use pads. These are the only pads I've ever used sparring.
<img src="http://www.ray-sport.ru/prodimg/b71.jpg">
Less than the gloves boxers wear. Hell, even amateur boxers wear head gear.

Martial artists really don't really study much from books. For the most part, martial arts are about doing. Reading is not doing.

Even if boxing and wrestling are superior forms or martial arts, it does not change the simple truth that someone who has puched a million or more punches will be better off than someone who has maybe punched a wall in anger once or twice.

You never addressed this:

Hey Gak Face
I have *some* experience. I've trained a bit in martial arts and also competed in small(full contact and points) tournaments. Martial arts can help you, it will also give you confidence that you won't get beaten up--it seems like thats what you're looking for. However, it won't stop someone from stabbing you in the back or shooting you or 5 guys from mobbing you(unless you are a movie action hero)

Out of personal recommendation I would go with either kickboxing or brazilian jujitsu(or both). A guy at the place I trained used to compete in UFC type circuits and knew quite a bit. His theory was that if you don't knock the guy out in the first punch you are gonna have to grapple which is why jujitsu is so good...

MA'S are a tricky subject, I know this due to the fact that I have studied Okinawan Karate, Judo, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Yes, they can teach you how to handle yourself in a fight and also give you self-confidence. However, if your sole motivation for starting a MA is due to this ONE incident, you will probably only last a few months. You really have to be in it for the long haul if you want to become profficeint at an art.

That being said, if you DO deicde you want to join a school, these are the things you should be wary of:

1. Children who aren't old enough to have driving permits walking around with Black Belts. This is usually a sign of schools that sell belt rankings and do not have high standards. Typically these are Tae Kwon Do and Karate schools who give out Black Belts after 3 years. These are commonly referred to as "McDojos".

2.Katas/Forms. Despite what anyone tells you these dances will not help you in a self defense situation. Sure they are good for excercise and developing balance, but not much time should be wasted on them.


These are the lessons I have learned in my MA experience. Today I would not consider myself a Martial Artist due to the fact that I no longer attend a school. However, I still retain my knowledge of striking from Karate, my throws and trips from Judo, and the groundfighting I learned from Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. No matter which art you choose, you have to remember that it's only one piece of the puzzle, no art is complete. Once you realize this you will become a much more dangerous and efficient fighter.

Is this also the case with such arts as Wing Chun (Tsun)? It is supposed to train the fighter to respond to animal movement and integrate technique instinctively. Sounds good to me, but I'm sure that level of instinct is far beyong a year or two of training.

Amateur boxers are women, plenty of martial artists use the same headgear as well. As long as you can throw and take a decent punch then you should be ok (a startling amount of tough guys are limp wristed bitches) if they teach you that, good, but those tournaments with the pads and helmets are a joke (that point bullshit is retarded, the only points awarded should be when the other guy's unconcious) if you want to show who's better at fighting.

Good for them, I don't reccomend anyone read a book to learn how to fight either.

Sure, but who says you need to study martial arts to throw a million punches? I think I reccomended a punching bag to Gecko earlier, it's fun and good exercise to boot.

I have addressed it, I told him to look in to whatever the military uses because it likely isn't as impractical as the majority of the martial arts.

I know nothing about Wing Chun. Sorry.
Agreed.
I never said that was not a valid way to learn to protect yourself. You said martial arts weren't. I was disputing that.
The majority of martial arts are used by one branch or another of the military. That was my point.

AAHHHHH what happened? We want to know!

Yeah, what's the point of learning all that stuff if you're hardly ever going to use them though? It's kind of like exercise, but you can get that from free weights. Also, if you don't have experience in what you're trying to do those arts can turn into a liability. Like you said, being slow, using slow attacks (I can't imagine a situation where someone tries to roundhouse me and I don't tackle them in the back, or take a step forward...), you'll get beat up. Gaining experience in the arts doesn't seem to help either vs. those ufc fellows, I've watched quite a few of those pay per views and they just about always lose. So he can do what he wants, but I say it's more about the person then the style.

It sounds more like they use a few moves from a few different styles to me. If every martial art only has a few attacks that are effective, that doesn't do much for your argument.

<i>Pussies I say. I've experienced plenty of it, how can some goober whose studied books and practiced with people with pads and shit on trying to score points ever perform in a real fight? They haven't, at least the ones I've had the pleasure of beating on (they started it). Also, like I said before, if you check out a place where they take people of all studies and let them duke it out, you'll see I'm right. Stop being condescending as well, it's pissing me off.

</i>

hey Phaenx, seriously, shut the hell up. You're giving all of us martial artists a bad name. There's nothing wrong with the point-sparring classes as long as that's what the students want and they know that's what they're getting. The ONLY dojos I have a problem with are the point sparring dojos that claim to teach stuff that will work on the street. Even with those guys, I don't start fights with 'em on message boards and I'm not a rude dick to 'em under any circumstances.

I'm honestly starting to wonder about YOUR training. My students are taught respect from day one, and frankly it doesn't seem like you have any. You're seriously starting to sound like the DragonBallZ dipshits over on gameFAQ's martial arts board that think they're the blessed offspring of Rambo and Bruce Lee. Ease up, eh?

This is obviously the statement from a person who has no understanding of the martial arts. Self-defense, and I do mean defense, is a small aspect of the martial arts. I have trained in Tae Kwon Do for 9 years, and it has become a way of life for me. If you want to go around getting into fights, then none of the martial arts are the route for you. If you want to learn discipline and make your mind and body razor sharp, then the martial arts are definitely a good way to go.

The study of martial arts is not a part time commitment. If you can't make the commitment then don't bother wasting your time, get a gun or get over it.

I would expect good martial artists are as unlikely to be picking fights in parking lots or in other fights youve spectated, as they are to be on UCF. I would think the reasons for this are obvious. Sure their are average fighters but even then they are less likely to "test" their skills in that way. And I think the reasons for that go beyond a matter of style or even respect.

In the real world its not kill or be killed. Its hard to find real enemies that "deserve" anything or are even worthy opponents. Without going into it deeply, there are criminals, but thats where the law comes in, there's no killing or even fighting involved.

You may say fighting solves conflicts but really when you see people fighting, they probably shouldn't be fighting. There's nothing you can do to stop them because thats what they chose to do, but if you are their friend, you should tell them what they don't see, because they are obviously missing something.
Well I agree fighting experience may be important, that only lends support to martial arts. You test your skills with the goal of improving yourself against opponents you respect in a environment that builds comradery and friendship as opposed to proving yourself in spectacles that breed supposed winners and losers. The importance of that I am unsure

I believe the author of this thread has forgotten about it, sad, because this thread seems to be filled with usefull knowledge of the Martial arts, and the useless ramblings of one named Phaenx. As for the latter comment, I make it because he has provided neither usefull information, nor any comments that did not involve his (likely imaginary) adventures in masculinity. I hope for his sake he never picks a fight in real life, cause people carry guns, knives, ... in real life. Good luck to you oh Starter of this Thread.

Your "training" must be quite vigorous if you can't contain yourself on an internet forum. The point is to give you a bad name, it's a waste of time.

You'll also be happy to hear that I don't go around getting myself into incidents. I am a brash person who gives an honest opinion, if you don't like hearing peoples opinions then you shouldn't be here, you should also likely find a new line of work.

Like I said before, that's really convenient for your argument. These guys get slaughtered at the UFC and it's because the good ones don't attend.

Hahaha.

Basmoq, go look UFC/MMA up, or get into a fight with a 6'5 240lb linebacker that spends as much time in the gym as you do in a dojo. I'll send YOU a get well card, and suggest a new hobby. Are you any good at knitting?

Phaenx, honestly, what's so far stuck up your ass that you can only see that "any `martial artist - but oh, not martial artists who are boxers, wrestlers, or who learn the military school mixing of martial arts` is obviously a pussy who would get whuped in a real fight"? Is it that improbable that people have self-restraint and choose not to fight, despite being more than able to?

Is it that improbable that the people who are well trained and capable of very deadly applications of force (ie: master martial artists from any school) choose not to commercialize their efforts by something like UFC?

If I had that kind of power, the last thing I'd do is go pick fights on TV. It would negate everything I'd spent my life learning.

I'm fairly sure that the topic starter did not want to divulge any details about the thread and quickly ignored it when we started asking "What happened?" - and hasn't come back.

Anyone who doesn't use a direct and to the point approach is at a disadvantage. Boxing and wrestling are good examples (jeet kune do is as well I would think, being designed that way. You know, people gave Bruce Lee shit for saying martial arts was too elaborate too), the military I also assume would bother to teach something worthwhile as well. What's so hard to believe about what I'm saying specifically? You don't think trying to kick someone in the head is a bad idea? The idea that you can be 160lbs and take down a 240lb guy? Won't happen, doesn't happen.

There are plenty of "masters" that attend the UFC/MMA, and they aren't what the television would have you believe. So yes, it is improbable that they would both morally object with the idea of testing their abilities and style as well as earn cash winnings.

Did you know Bruce Lee was 5'7" 135-140 pounds at his peek? I don't doubt he could have taken down a 240 pound guy.

Maybe, certainly in a movie though, Bruce Lee was an actor. He's not alive to prove otherwise as well.

You know as well as I that Bruce was more than just an actor. Besides if he was just an actor why did you reference him to make a point?

Phaenx it goes the other way around as well, its really convenient that the only fighters you see are street brawlers in parking lots or prize fighters on UCF.
Plus this was apparently not my main point, even if you did not state your opinion on it previously, I knew your obvious answer, I was just trying to give some explanation.
And I think most everyone on this board is open to your response, otherwise they would stop posting.

I think there is a certain amount of fear and spite in the opinion of many of those people who will call martial arts ineffective.

(its funny how this has turned into a martial arts thread)

what we have here in Phaenx is a guy who has watched too many ninja movies, and therefore assumes he knows everything there is to know about the martial arts. What we also have here in Phaenx is a guy who will get slaughtered if he picks a fight with the wrong guy. If his mouth is half as obnoxious as his posting is, he's going to learn that very soon.

He's obviously not in touch with reality. All we can do for him is suggest that he make sure to keep up with his health insurance premiums, 'cause one of these days he's gonna need it. ;)

oh, and Phaenx, you don't even know my line of work, so it's kinda stupid for you to suggest that I change it. But you're right. I don't have very much patience with you. I don't suffer fools gladly. Respect does not mean rolling over and saying that everything you're proposing is absolutely true. Respect is also earned, and the other posters in here have earned respect by not being jerks.

I had a great TKD instructor.His training was "this is how you do it in a tournament.... and this is how you do it in the street".
I have been in a fair few fights, given beatings and taken beatings.Been hit with everything from bricks to mororbike helmets.
Most fights you see will have guys standing with their fists up as shown on tv.
Personally the faster you close them down the faster they will panic.There is never such a thing on the street as a fair fight either, you hit,bite,kick them where you can and be prepared to hit the ground with them.

It bothers me that you idiots are still holding this discussion, completely ignoring the fact that this post five days ago was the last one he's made.

Yes Bruce Lee was a great philosopher and actor. However he never participated in any NHB matches or otherwise prove his skills were useful for self defense, therefore it is hard to determine the extent of his fighting ability.

I think almostaugust has diagnosed your problem well enough, but I'll remind you that calling names is childish, and against the rules of this forum.

Also, "ninja movies" often portray the martial arts as more then it is. A guy beats up 30 street thugs in a few seconds and walks home. Who has seen too many movies?

I myself have been in more fights then I care to remember, and the typical martial arts (I'll start excluding sports like wrestling, boxing etc.) have never impressed me.

I was refering to your teaching children. I assumed you were saying you're some sort of instructor, and if that was true then you possibly shouldn't be teaching people how to avoid fights. Also, I'm sorry your hobby sucks.

No it doesn't, there's plenty of them. Here's a list of all the popular styles they use in the MMA league:

All of the current champions are wrestlers by the way. They've got some impressive records too.

(Sigh) does anybody know Mad_Gecko's e-mail address? I don't feel right about the way he left and wish he'd come back.

What you talking about? Before he came to the States, he was an underground street fighter in HK. He even won a boxing championship while in high school. In the States, he entered some tournaments. He never lost a match You can read about him <a href="http://www.historylink.org/_output.CFM?file_ID=3999" target="_blank">here</a>, but like most sites I've looked at it focuses on his acting career.

Look at his <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=880" target="_blank">profile</a>, click the part about sending him an email.

folks.. keep the thread civil :) he's right there is no name calling :) not even a little bit.

Thanks, Cynthetiq, for reminding us to cool our tempers a bit. I think this thread has gone on a bit too long. :)

My sincere apologies, Phaenx, for the name-calling, I let my temper get the better of me and posted in anger. I still disagree strongly with your view, but my opinion remains unchanged.

Now we know why he's a mad Gecko. Things sure have changed a lot around here :rolleyes:

What is "EOS" anyway?

Re: I just got beaten up...
 

yeh dude, learn how to defend yerself heh

You can believe this if you want. However in order for me to believe that someone is a good fighter, I have to:

A)Fight them myself.
OR
B)Watch them fight someone else (in person or on tape)

Unfortuntely none of these so called no holds barred matches were ever captured on tape. Therefore it is impossible for me to judge Lee's self defense abilities.

I believe it means "End of Story" - as in "I'm done with this topic and not reading the thread again"

FYI, if I take a kill shot to someone's neck, there going down, regardless of their weight, you are by far the most ignorant person when it comes to the martial arts, and need to learn that it isn't smart to talk about something with which your are completely and obviously unfamilair.

Very much untrue, I've been on the recieving end of plenty of ultimate ninja attacks like your "kill shot." They aren't impressive in the least.

If they were, then martial artists would be doing much better in these pit fights, and I'd have had my ass kicked by now at least a dozen times.

I've told you more than once that I am indeed familiar with your hobby, I've presented evidence that all but proves my theories and personal experiences. Basmoq, if you want to prove I'm wrong then you should focus less on calling me ignorant and focus more on proving your statements.

Actually in one of the first UFC'S Royce Gracie who was 170 pounds at the time, tapped out Dan Severn who was 240 pounds.

I personally I have tapped ut a guy who was 200+ pounds and I am only 160.

But of course both Royce Gracie and I use Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, which is not a typical martial art.

Was that the one where he tripped the guy, got on his back and kind of wrapped his legs around his legs and elbowed the living fuck out of his skull?

If so, that was neat. Sort of cheap but neat. Given of course Dan Severn's like 80 years old.

No it was the fight that lasted 15 minutes that ended with Royce sinking in the triangle choke.

First off.. when you're flexable.. its not really hard to do.. Secondly, if you're fast.. its not a problem. Imagine Steel Tipped shoes... ;)
Gimmie some time to get you the proof on this one. I can happen, and it does happen. To think otherwise, is what Basmoq said... Ignorant. Shit Basmoq said himself that he' think twice before attempting to take me down.. I don't know how much he weight, but i'm about 130.. he's a more than that.

I'm simply amazed at how you think something as diverse as martial arts is shit... something I don't believe I've heard you state you've practiced. So some people used it upon you... good for you, others have had people use wrestling against them and they beat them.. yet do you hear them saying wrestler type fighting sucks ass? No I don't think so. The reason people are giving you shit is because you simply said martial arts sucked complete ass and never gave it a second thought. You think so many jump around and do crazy shit, its not what you think.

Well in the first place, kicking someone in the head IS generally a bad idea. It's too slow, and no matter how fast you are an oblique kick to the knee will come in much faster than a round kick to the head.

In the second place, Phaenx is insinuating that all, or at least most, martial arts teach BS like this. Not true. My dojo, along with MANY others, teaches NOT to kick to the head.

Phaenx also doesn't seem to realize that an art doesn't have to come from Japan, China, or Korea to be a martial art. Western boxing is a martial art, as is kali, JKD, etc.

Phaenx continues to display his endless ignorance of the real world of martial arts. I get the sense that he reads Black Belt and all their BS articles, and disagrees with them, but then projects that image onto ALL martial arts. He suffers from oversimplification syndrome. Phaenx, while you're correct that SOME martial arts teach play-fighting kidrate BS that will virtually guarantee you will lose in a real fight, not ALL of them do.

Also, you say you have to fight or watch someone fight before you will believe they're good at fighting. Does that attitude extend to other skills? Do you have to fly with or watch the pilot fly the plane before you will trust him enough to get onboard his airliner? Do you need videotape of the cook in the restaurant before you will believe he's a good enough cook not to undercook your food?

Phaenx if you haven't noticed you are in a loosing battle. Other people have said that martial arts is not efective, but you go so far as to insult them and make yourself look like an ass. I myself belive that martial arts is good for you. But I realize that anyone trying to perform a move perfectly will get his butt kicked. But I know that during my training after my 3rd or 4th belt we learned to be flexible and make the moves faster and more suited for the fight. Wich as was stated earlier practice does make the differance as you have said. And getting into a fight is the last thing you want to do cause you never know what you are getting yourself into. Well enugh of my rant. Just take the first part into consideration please Phaenx.

I don't know if this has been metioned yet, but Phaenx mentioned that he didn't believe a 240 lb guy could be taken down by a 160 lb guy? Theres a Japanese martial art called Aikido that is pretty damn cool to watch. It has nothing to do with kicking, punching, or meeting strength with strength. My dad is a second degree black belt. My brother is also a third degree black belt in Tae Kwan Do. My dad and my brother sparred once. My brother got schooled. It was great :) They respect each other and take classes from each other. I see how this thread has gone onto Martial Arts, and that is what martial arts is, respect for others. If you guys are interested in a martial art that isn't about violence, check it out.

The point shouldn't be what you can do with which type of martial art. It is true that training in any type of combat style (and practicing/sparring) will neccesarily make you more adept and less vulnerable.

But there is an intangible to consider... Aggression.

If you are aggressive enough to take the initiative and pop somebody at the right time, all of your training is irrelevant. Conversely, if you are tentative and miss your opportunity or don't exploit it fully, you'll probably get you ass whipped.

An aggressive person with solid martial arts/combat training is going to be that much more effective in a fight.

Essentially martial arts can be a huge help, but not the entire difference.

<i>Excellent</i> point, lightning.

Aggression is one of the core keys to fighting. If you're not on the offensive, you're gonna lose.

Having an unpopular opinion doesn't mean you automatically lose. There are a lot of people talking, but noone's doing shit to disprove my evidence other then say "the real martial artists don't participate in that program." Pfah. There's also a lot of people who haven't been paying attention, I'd have referenced them to earlier posts of mine but I think it's more entertaining for me this way. Also, if you'll review for a moment you will see that I haven't specifically insulted any members at all, I've even gone so far as to remind others that calling someone ignorant/stupid or an ass is against community policy. Rather I've focused on voicing my dissaproval of traditional martial arts, many people don't like that and have voiced their opinions, which is fine because I get to wait around for someone to provide some sort of evidence to the contrary of what I have provided.

I thought this thread died a few days back. I'll make sure it will this time.
It's just the same BS over and over. Nobody agrees... Now that we can agree on.