State of the TFP Address
 

My fellow TFPers, these days don't seem so exciting as they used to. It's time for a little change. We need to raise our standards and expectations.

It is your job as a devoted TFPer to make sure that you are getting the right experience from the board. I'm instructing you now to do the following to improve your experience here:

• Welcome newbies to the board and be informative when you speak with them. Tell them the rules. Teach them how to use features. Send them kind private messages when they mess up.
• While humor is one of the endearing qualities of the TFP, make sure your posts have substance before popping in with a whitty quip.
• When you post an article, make sure you a) post a link to the article, b) quote either all or just a section of the article in your post, and c) add your opinion to the post.
• Post topics that can be discussed. Top 5 lists, which is better, what's your favorite ...whatever, are NOT discussion topics. All they do it let people add one to their post count by piping in with a 2 word post.
• Come into the chat once in a while. Click on the chat button at the top of the page and join the peeps who hang out all day. You get to know them a lot better.
• Use the private message system to network with the TFPers whose posts you enjoy. Nothing is better than waking up one morning, checking the TFP and seeing that your work is appreciated.
• Reduce your criticism. Critics are unproductive in this community. Lead by example.
• INVITE people to the TFP. Get people interested and give them the address. Sure, you may post some "private" stuff here, but we cannot progress if we cannot push aside the stigmas of the modern society. Trust me here, it's not a big deal.

With that said, I urge you all to share YOUR impressions of the site at this time. Let me know what youre concerns are and what we can do to make the TFP a better place.

Well said Hal.

This is definitley the best message board I'VE come across on the internet. I'm glad that I was pointed here, and will continue to do so for other friends. This is a really great community, and the small things Hal mentioned can make it even better.

For me, this is a place to relieve the tension of the day, and see what you people have done. I agree on the bit about two word posts, and I'm guilty of it, but am trying to post quality over quantity as of late. Some things only warrant a word or two, primarily in the Humour and Titty Boards. But even there, replying with another joke, or telling us what you want to do to the hottie on the screen would be fine.

Thanks for giving a place like this...it's truly one of a kind.

so far most people that get to a new article that is linked and not posted take care of that themselves, or so I've noticed.

I always try to be fair when giving criticism. Dunno if I succeed in it, hope I do.

As for bringing people to the TFP, so far I've gotten a couple of people here, and I generally don't mind them reading what I post here. They are friends, and read alot of disturbing things on the web, doesn't matter if I make the post or not :)

As far as impressions: I would have to say you are somewhat reaching your limit of what you can do to make it a better place man. It's a tight ship overall. Good organisation, an active team of mods and most of the time a mature crowd of boardees/tiltees/whatever that post around here.

Plus there is a plethora (I learned a new word today :p ) of fora (and now I'm even rhyming :D ) for every possible subject. I think the way you can make this a better place it perhaps by the hardest way of all: keeping it up the way it is at the moment.

Thank you to you, all the admins and all the mods.

Yeah, I've been to many forums over my years on the net, but this one has the most to offer. Firstly, there's plenty of people here to talk to, there is a set of ENFORCED rules, which I like, and there are plenty of forums to choose from. Great community, and great post Halx. I'll take your suggestions to heart.

The TFP is one of the best forums on the net. There is organized chaos and a when we do run afoul, and I think most of us have at one time or another, the mods have, mostly gently, reeled us in with a polite, "Cut the crap".

I have to say the best thing I ever did is to get addicted to the IRC channel. It gives those that are on during the day a chance to hear me bitch about the smoking lady and talk me in off the ledge, and at night it's a wonderful distraction from the real work I didn't get done from earlier in the day when I was IRC at work :)

Thanks, Hal for making and maintaining such a great forum and thanks to all the mods for all you do, both on TFP and #tfp.

While I agree about the post size, I think that's treading a bit on thin ice.

Consider: Do we want to encourage TFPers to post things that don't necessarily encourage discussion, but DO brighten their day? If not, why not?

Um...

*takes what Hal said to heart*

Well said. One thing I miss that I think might improve the overall experience and help us members to find the popular, quality posts, is the rating system for all posts, including discussion posts. Any chance we could bring that back?

will do, i love sharing the tfp with my friends

Just invited a new friend to tfp tonight. It felt risky as I have shared more openly here then I do other places; but it also felt right. I hope we see her on soon!

And thanks for a great board, Hal!

Re: State of the TFP Address
 

MY impression is that many of YOU (Hal, mods, et. al.) work many hours to keep this site running, and running well I might add. I never leave my time lurking (and occasionally posting) without the feeling that I got a little more than I gave.

That's why I DONATE. Not alot, and not very often, but more than I give to any other site on the net (seriously). I would encourage everyone who reads this to stop now and donate. [Maybe someone who is smarter than I will post a quick link to the thread that tells us how to do that.]

All that blah blah above comes as a long, winding way to say THANKS! Your work is appreciated and enjoyed.

Cool. I am glad you posted this. It will take some effort to not post a silly comment here and there, though it will be an easy adjustment. For my sake, and some others who have intense stress, could we offer some leeway to those who, frankly, are funny but not simply fuckin annoying?

I for one am thrilled. My feelings here have been vast and up and crazy like for two months. The last two weeks has proven the quality and worthiness of the site.

As far as chat, heh, how often am I not in it?:D

I help people all the time. I enjoy it.

I seem to be echoing everyone's opinion when I agree that this is a very well-run site and has slowly become a little part of my life that I look forward to. The members here, for the most part, are good people with intelligent comments. I'm sure the mods work their asses off to keep TFP running so smoothly and to keep everyone in line! I, for one, really appreciate that as there are so many other forums out there that don't seem to have any respect for their fellow members which is a shame.
I agree whole-heartedly that some people should tone down a little of the critism you see here. But, sometimes an item or entry is put up just to make you smile...not necessarily to start a big discussion over it. I would hate to see some of those "infamous feel good" threads die on the vine.
Overall this is a really wonderful place. I keep meaning to poke into chat once in a while...maybe that will be my new mission in life! :lol:
Keep up the wonderful work!

I have to say that my usage of TFP has grown slowly over time. I first came here because of a link to the Titty Board (surprise, surprise). I soon started branching out and investigating the other Fora.

I have encouraged others to join whenever I can. I have family members and friends who are already members. But we all use TFP differently.

Over time my usage of TFP has been changing. As I feel "safer" here, I have revealed more of myself and participated more. I still spend a lot of my time in the Nonsense Forum. So, I would hate to see the "feel good threads" go away completely. Some of them don't belong in Nonsense, but they aren't big discussion items. I don't really have a suggestion for how to solve this problem, but I will try to be more conscious of what I post and its value to the community.

Since I have been here, I have made a couple of mistakes. The mods let me know and I have not repeated those mistakes. While I have not always agreed with some members, including some mods, I have always felt that they respected my position. I had made a friend here who was subsequently banned for not being willing to follow the rules here. But, I have to say that while I miss the friend, I am not willing to give up this community.

What we have here on TFP is unique. Halx and the mods do a lot of work to make sure that it maintains its value for all of us. I want to thank them for that.

Now, I post in different Fora, I have a journal and a webcam. So I need to start using chat more. I can only use MIRC from home, so I'll have to use the chat button when things are quiet at work.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings. :D

Nicely said Halx!

I've been to only a few "communities" like this, and by far TFP is head and shoulders above the rest, in quality, organization, and members. While at work, I hang out and check new posts all day, but I can't chat due to the firewall, but would love to. I've certainly found a place on the net I love to go and hang. Thanks for doing what your doing (Halx and all the mods) to keep this place going, and as clean as it is.

thanks for the post Hal :)

good stuff/info/goals/etc....

...and i will do my best to do my part. :icare:

Thanks again Hal :icare:


I belong to a few forums and this has been the best by far. There are so many different areas of discussion to get into. I've honestly learned things since I've started posting here.

I've been into the chat a few times but I'm just a bit wary of it. I can easily spend far too much time there and neglect other things that I should be doing.

I think the mods do a great job. I've made mistakes here and there and they have been good enough to send me a PM and let me know. Some forums would kick you out instantly. I'm glad it's not like that here :)

I have been to chat quite a few times but whenever I go there, no one is talking. When I try to talk or bring something up nothing would happen still. After a few times of this I just gave up.

legolas - a lot of it has to do with when.

Right now the IRC channel is hopping. Im logged on 24 hrs a day, and Im actually watching the chat room about 6 hours of the day, + or - depending if I have work or not.

Just pop in and send a greeting, if you dont get a reply in 5 minutes, then try again in an hour. It just depends on when you try in. 5am in any time zone usually does not work :P

Dont give up!

Averett is right too - mods here do their job, and do it right, I owe my presence here to that too.

I've belonged to several forums over the years. This is, by far, the best. From helping newbies become acquainted to slowly allowing access to other parts of the site, it's been a great experience. I'll try to pop into chat now and then, but, since I'm doing this at work most of the time, the interruptions do me in. Thanks again for a great place to play. :thumbsup:

As far as chat goes, I've lurked in there a few times, still getting comfortable with it. It took me a long time to become a regular poster here, and it'll take me a while to do chat. It just depends on when you're there and what they are talking about. Last night it was dead for the first 20 minutes I was there, then it was going crazy for an hour and a half.

Re: State of the TFP Address
 

I don't mean to criticize but this community is unproductive. If it weren't here I'd get more work done. :D

Worried about the "instructing" comment.

I originally came here for the boobies, still do for that matter. I'm happy to make this a warm fuzzy place for people (which is why I now stay away from the Politics board).

However it scared me to see HALX posting such rhetoric. What brought you to such a post. I have been off-board for a little while and may have missed some of the goings on. Personally I don't want to be told what to do, but would hope most people have sense enough to do the right thing. (Yes, Naivety is one of my strong points).

The MODS aren't perfect, but they are good. This board isn't perfect but it's bloody good. We aren't perfect, but some of us are good. What happened to being good, if OK isn't enough where do we stop?

Guidelines are appreciated, but if I wanted rules I would go to school.

IMHO

Gecko, are my instructions too much to ask of someone?

I feel that if I discussed this with you, it would come down to semantics. The point is this: Don't be the last in line when it comes to "Who is helping the community and who is not." As thenewguy pointed out, when you visit the TFP, you're benefiting from the hours of work that hundreds of people put into this site. Am I out of line by suggesting that any visitor may OWE a little something (be it time, be it kindness, be it support, be it money) to the community?

This is my call to all of you to make this a better place, not just accept it for "Ok" or "Good" or even "Great." If you're not into progression, then read the tag line. That's what we're all about. Evolution. Evolving into something better.

HALX , Any instruction from a "higher" authority can be misconstrued. I agree that this would probably boil down to an argument in interpretation. I also hope that I will never "be last in line" for anything. In fact, I know I will never miss out on anything I need!

My question was. How did this post come to be? As I understood it (my own misinterpretation), this was a forum for the freedom (and evolution) of expression. It seems as though a need has arisen for this post and these guidelines. I would like to know why, and it could be because of my ignorance.


EDIT: I will always play Devil's advocate.

Dbl EDIT: Please don't think just because I'm reacting to this one post, I don't like this board. I enjoy this community and do feel an obligation to participate and follow most of what HALX has laid out. I am grateful that there is a place I can say my mind and not become either flambe or an outcast.

I thank all members who have made this an enjoyable place to be. I just had some ?'s regarding the topic.

Gotta get back in the groove been out for awhile. Good to see the TFP still going strong.

I'll just add my experience to what Hal has stated. I started off as a normal member here like everyone else. I lurked for a week or two, because I wasn't sure what the attitude toward newbies would be (the community was much smaller then). I started posting because I felt that I needed to give something back since I was taking from the board without really doing anything to give back. After a while, I donated because I still felt like it wasn't enough. I applied to be a mod because I was spending a lot of time here and I felt that I had to give something back. I'm an admin now, and I'm still doing all that I can to try and give back at least a little of what I've been given by the community. I don't expect everyone else to go to that extreme, but I just want to at least try to give back some of what I've received from this place.

Some see the rules, and think they are authoritarian controls. I see them and see Hal trying to bring new people closer into the community. Top five lists can't tell much about a person. Getting them to state their thoughts, ideals, and how they justify them is what gives insight into the members. His wanting to reduce negativity will only help to strengthen the community. And I've never really understood why people feel the need to be negative in some threads anyway. It's kind of sad to see people who have to bring negativity into threads that were created for the sole purpose of cheering others up.

Okay, I think I'm done rambling........for now. ;)

Well, that's just fine and dandy. I don't mind being ignored when trying to discuss something. Whatever...

I will say this is by FAR the best forum on the web that I have ever come across:)

I have not been around much as of late due to work and more work:crazy:


HALX what happend to our TFP Southern California get together
???

If you think before you hit the submit button, if you put a little effort into your thread starter, there's no reason you can't do both.

I browse the forum every day. I get a feel for how it's going. It's my job to interject when things are going downhill. If you would rather things be left alone, try an unmoderated board. I, however, have been doing this from day 1 of the TFP and I rather like what has come from all this work.

Normality (refer to: Law of Averages) seems to be a lax attitude and non-sensical posts littering forums. I am not content with normality. I have a higher standard for the TFP.

well put I shall do my best to be a better board member

Work has been interefering with my perusal of the TFP lately. Checking in has been a daily ritual for me as I have a much faster connection at work than at home and I sure miss it when I have to be gone.

What Halx is asking seems to me like what should be done all the time and is nothing extra. If you want to be part of the community then you have to participate.

I have found, that with so many subject broken out of "General Discussion", that I don't seem to participate as much as I did. I don't read all the topics because I don't have the time. I always scanned the "General" board and responded to things I found interesting. I usually only have time for the General, Members, Nonsense, and Humor boards so I don't see as much as I used to.

I enjoy the "structured feeling" of the TFP in that sometimes a little discipline can make for a better experience for all concerned. This is the only site on the internet that I return to with any frequency and is a very enjoyable place to hang.

I whole heartedly agree. I've belonged to a number of message boards over the years, and imo, the TFP is by far the best. It is well moderated, the community is active, most members seem very sincere and are open to thoughtful discussion.

I also very much like the freedom of expression and the ability that so many have to accept people for who they are... diferences and all. This is a very diverse group, and except for the occasional "spat", I think the community does an awesome job of supporting and respecting one another.

RT complications have made me a very unactive member over the last couple of months... but I also think that occasional "rises & lulls" among members are to be expected. For many of us with children, hectic careers, etc. etc. time management can be an issue, and i personally feel that family should always come first.

That said, when we are able to contribute... we should -- regulary, whole heartedly, and with a sincere committment to support the community and everything that makes the TFP so great.

i had a job for 13 years that paid me $48K + a year. i processed all change paper that entered my department and assessed the priority of the change by need. to assist me in that i had 15 others help in the evaluation of each change. my department head gave me carte blanche when it came to the resolutions.

once the change was assessed it would be handed off to the proper division for resolution. following that, my group would review the revision for fit, form & function. it had to be coordinated with the various trades involved in the process.

having had a meeting with the other disciplines one day, i found that the authority vested in me was of little matter. it occurred to me that my department head had no intention of letting the program i was in charge of succeed.

i was fired for telling him, "i get more support from a jock strap than i do from you!"

i own my own business now and am entirely responsible for it's successes and failures. i have made both.

however, in this community with 29,000 + members all looking for something to relieve themselves of the mundane, i feel some sort of structure should be followed.

we, the ad's and mod's, spend countless hours striving to keep the boards in flow, not ebb. trying to keep threads on topic, moving threads to the proper forums, trying to police the needy and constantly brainstorming to find new interests is a migraine in the waiting.

what i feel Hal sees in this is growth. not just an evolution but an intelligent progression. the nonsense board is just that - billege. but it does have it's place. if it's posted in GD or politics it doesn't bring out provoking thought.

do you want stew for dinner or chateau briand?

i am so glad to see GD getting rid of all the fucking 'how often do you poop?' or twenty thousand other stupid or silly threads here. it got to the point where i only visited GD every once in awhile a few weeks ago.

some things i think some people need to remember and i do not recall being brought up yet (if it was, i apologize):

actually the first thing has been said. there are a lot of people with full time jobs, proffesional students, owners of businessess, hell Art works around the clock!, and some of the modds/admins are married, too.

they go way the fuck out of their way to make most of us happy. they would pacify all of us if possible.

don't get me wrong; i'm not saying they are saints by any means. they fuck up like i and you do. i rarely agree with Halx on boards but we respect each others' opinions and we have a place where we can do just that: discuss with tolerable people.

if the guys who bust their ass everyday to do you a service for free and you want to have serious complaints.. pathetic.

i am always raising issues i see as wrong, but i do know that hey I am a guest in a house made for me. i can show them a mistake and they may fix it. if not, it is their place first and i think if we ever start to hate an admin or what not to such a severe degree i suggest you walk away.

nobody with a tiny shred of respect can make serious complaints against people who baby them unless you saw something downright evil happen. even after that you have to remember.... this service is hard and costly to provide. they do it for free. how much more ass kissing do you expect?

TFP has given me an emotional roller coaster ride to the highest degree. i fucking love it right now.

second: TFP is no longer, if it ever was (ahemyeahright) a site for porn. sure, you can get it, but TFP is now a huge unclosed circle of both friends and enemies who work together to offer a place for us outcasts or debators or what not to go, relax, have fun and maybe debate.

porn? sure. personally i rather have people with manners and brains.

WhoaitsZ, that is a moving testimonial. It comes straight from your heart, I know. That's where it's at. Real and meaningful things aren't just about head trips - they are about human things. And humans are about Community. That's where we live. These input fields we type into are connected to our lives. You can feel that here.

This is a milestone of a thread. Thanks, Hal, for putting it out there...

I'm right with you on that one Z.

OK, I suppose in a lot of cases I could have put more thought into a post.

I asked about shaving cream some time ago and couldn't come up with a better place to post it than GD... and I was dying of curiousity. :(

Besides, TFP doesn't need to have nontrivial discussions all the time. We are all students of life and not everyone knows the same things.

That's one thing that makes TFP great: the vast variety of knowledge possessed by its active members.

Blah
Blah blah,
blah blah blah
blah, whatever Halx says, blah blah,
Blah blah blah, bleet little sheep.

My impression of the site is not like many others, and I'm taking your invitation to say so.

Well, I tell you what. I don't like where this is going.

First of all,
I've always respected and appreciated the work done for me here. The upkeep, mods, etc. That's why I post, and donate.

But this is getting to me.

I do not consider myself a guest here, I claim an ownership. If the users make the community, I have every right to claim ownership.

The rules are set by the mods, fine, no problem. But those rules have grown more and more constrictive over time, and I'll be damned if I'm just going to agree with it. I don't like it, and I'm saying so. Loudly and clearly I hope.

I've been around a little while now, not nearly as long as some, but people should remember me being all the heck OVER the last board. (For those of you that would judge my by my post count, my current # isn't even a third of what I had on the last version. Yes, I'm proud of my high post count there. I really felt I contributed to a lot of threads, started quite a few, and was able to hold my head high when the chips were down.)

Now I post an average of 2-point-crap/day. Why?

Because the board isn't there for me now. I can't post <i>this</i>, without following <i>these</i> rules. I can't say I don't like <i>that</i> because it'd be wrong; I should use my back button instead. I can't disagree. Do you see that? I can't even say I think a thing is ugly. I should "use my back button." What is there if all I can do is agree?

I just can't follow this drive for further restriction. Nor do I understand the ready compliance by a large number of members. If this is the place where people fall right in line, with no discussion, then I think the TFP has turned from what it's supposed to be: a place for the expression and exploration of humanity.
It's seeming more like a place to follow the rules, agree and salute.

Two word posts aren't cool anymore, so there goes that. Thanks, really. What if my two words would be <i>funny?</i> What if I make my contribution that way?
That IS how I made my contribution when I was new. I eased in to the TFP by testing the waters and running away… Now everyone has to write a damn dissertation, with a freaking bibliography before posting. Are you going to want footnotes too?

I’d also like to add that anyone can take that self-righteous crap about me having the nerve to “complain” and shove it.
If you consider this a complaint, and think I have no right to say it, then YOU need to remember what this place is supposed to be.

I’ve never complained that a mod was a jerk, that the server sucked, or that the work put in by the staff was substandard. That’s the type of complaint that has no place here.

I’m disagreeing with the direction MY community is going, and I have every right to.
I associate a lot of value with the TFP. It’s too bad that’s all fond memory.

It's like having a conversation with a gag in my mouth.

Communities change. When we don't like what's going on in OUR community, if an element of society starts buying up all the property around us and moving in and we don't like it, we move out.

No one forces you to stay at TFP. We appreciate what everyone has to contribute, however there are certain things that will not be tolerated. We do this so that we don't become one of those boards that everyone says shit about. We made rules because it's easier to say "read this so you know what is not allowed". As I see it, most people enjoy the fact that they can come here, post their feelings about something, and NOT be flamed for it.

Do you live in a community now where there are no laws? Are you allowed to openly urinate on your neighbors when it's not asked for (some people like that, so watch out)? Can you walk over to your neighbor's house and intrude on his property whenever you like? Rules/laws are a necessity for order.

And if you're upset because we won't let you flame or talk negatively about anyone, then that's a serious problem. There are many places out there where you can insult people. TFP is not one of them.

If people want to flame, insult, or just be plain rude, then there are some places they can go. On the net, try http://www.becauseyouareacunt.com/ and in RL, try Ed Debevic's in either Chicago or Phoenix. You can get all the insults you want there.

Just my 2 cents.

*puts on a smirk, folds his arms across his chest and tilts his head, gazing at billege*

So let me get this straight.

You think we dont allow you to disagree?
Well, my friend, you can disagree all you like. Just be mature about it. I think that's always been a rule. From day 1.

Meanwhile, what *further* restriction is there being placed? If you're referring to my bit about criticism, then I urge you to read it again. I never said stop doing it all together. As far as the two word post bit, the same thing stands. Other than that, I haven't a flying clue what you're yackin' about.

Personally, I think anyone who feels *restricted* by our rules needs to seriously consider their own stability and self-esteem. There is nothing in our rules that says you cannot argue, squabble, bicker, or bitch. You just have to do it in a mature manner.

Now, honestly, is that too much to ask? Am I intruding upon your integrity as a unique human being by asking you not to include personal insults in your repetoire of debate?

Your plight seems silly and misdirected to me, sorry. Whoever writes your speeches should do a little more research.

billege, take five minutes and spend some time on the fark forums. any one of them will do. now come back to the tfp and thank your lucky stars we don't allow the same kind of idiocy that you see on a painfully regular basis over there. now i respect you and the contributions you've made to the tfp, but you should understand that we appreciate people who contribute to the betterment of the community. we are working towards a de-farkification of the boards. we don't need a squad of nitwits fuxoring our discussions, so this is a heads up that if that is the only thing they're here to do, they are not welcome.

we want quality, and we're willing to do what we need to do in order to maintain the level of quality we've had. i appreciate the quality that you've given us, and hope very seriously that you continue to be an intregal part of our community.

I like TFP...What billege said is the way I feel also.

I don't see anything dramaticly wrong with TFP and when there is something...The Admins, Mods or Halx himself will fix it.

People not agreeing with eachother is one of the things that make this board interesting...The mods are always being complimented about how well & fast they are to straighten out the guys who get out of line. So that is working.

I don't have a problem with the rules...I have never been warned or PM'd about stepping out of line...I am not saying this board is perfect...But as far as the rules go, I think we have enough and from what I have seen the majority of the members here follow them. The ones that don't, They get warned or booted.

I just don't see how much better you can make a board that is already awsome...Ya, inviting friends and welcoming newbies and stuff like that will make them feel more welcomed.

I remember when I first came here and I made a "Hi I'm new here" thread...I expected the usual guys acting like it's time for my initiation or just being plain assholes. But what I found was everybody welcoming me to the TFP...I knew right then that this board was different. It still is different than any other forum I have or do post on.

If it aint broke then don't try to fix it.

Thanks Halx and everybody else who makes this board run...It's much appreciated.

I've been a member here since the crash as GuttersniperXL and before the crash as Jaun Dos Dedos. From day one, I couldn't believe what was going on here, "Community"!!! In every sense of the word. This place never ceases to amaze me. I can find out anything I want to know about, and learn about things that I would have never dreamt of...from people who care to take time out of their day to explain. Really, where else can you go for something like that? Sure, you'll run into people during the course of your day that would go out of their way to help you out, but here that helping hand is concentrated. That's what keeps me coming back. I'm all for progress and positivity. The TFP is the greatest resource of general information I've ever come across...it's like the encyclopedia of life. Hey my two cents, take it for what it's worth.

Now that's rich.I like that.

... bileage. to try to lighten the following message i will start with a joke. i admire your balls! I like people who can say 'umm. no.'

I consider myself to be one of the guys here who tries to go with the flow without being ruled over. However, I have something I call respect. it is something your rant seemed to not contain.

the thing is, Halx didn't say "You will do This, This, and This". in fairness he did say we are to use our heads some and quit posting bs in the wrong boards.

why is that a problem?

you say you can no longer post this or that. who said it, when was it said? unless you are posting a flame towards another user or race or person type, you can post whatever the fuck you want. Go to Nonesense. They made the fucking thing for people to be goofy for god's sake!

if someone wants to flame, do us all a favor and just fucking leave. if somebody has hate and flames for people or people types then they are 100% unwanted. go home.

i've not seen any 'new and strongly enforced rules' in weeks.

i strong admire your stepping up and saying what you think. I wish more people would. but you really need to work on making clear points instead of whining.

everybody here has done stupid shit, including me and hal and everyone else. we are fucking human. let go.

if you are over eighteen you can join here. this pretty much means being over the maturity age of 18 as well. if you can't state problems and move on then you are an unwanted nuisance.

i've had problems here. the mods worked with me to fix them. i got impatient once, hanx kindly told me to chill, i did so, the problem resolved.

these people use so much of their tiny bit of freetime to make us happy. should we complain? I think so! should we complain nonestop or whine over the woes of your thread not making it? fuck no.

if it were my board i'd tell ya to try again and maybe stsart in nonesense. if you felt the need to complain further i'd simply throw your ass out. there are too many people trying hard to make this place good than take all times to focus on someone too selfish to watch his style.

pathetic.

WhoaitsZ, I don't understand how my thread showed a lack of respect. Dissent does not denote disrespect.

I have never used personal insults in my discussion here. The implication that I am dying to flame people blows me away.
I've never done that, so it's seems obvious to me that the right to piss on people is not what I'm after.

I don't feel anyone here is even attempting to see my point.
I may be touching on something here...
However, I have been summarily dismissed as wrong, and now the group may move in the direction it was already going.

Such is the state of the TFP, and such was my point.



Edit
Okay, I think I've crystalized my feelings. They are:

I think the attempts to ensure poster quality are infringing on poster style.

But you've decided I'm (to use your words) a pathetic person whose self-esteem and stability are in question.

I see little capacity for conversation with attitudes like that.

I think the moderators are way too anal.

People get in trouble for not posting using the proper standards. They get in trouble for questioning a moderator.

But hey if that is how you guys want to run things I choose to not participate.

I will post occasionally and view a little bit but sometimes I don't post because I am just not in the mood to be questioned by the all powerful.

I fully expect a private message telling me to cool it or else.

it's simple. we provide you with the tfp, and in return we're expecting a higher level of usership than just some fuckjob who will post a meaningless or nonsensical reply every few weeks. for all that we give to our members, we're asking them to give a little of themselves back, or just hit the road.

i am trying to see your point and i am failing. btw, the followinf is not rude or disrepectful:

"Blah
Blah blah,
blah blah blah
blah, whatever Halx says, blah blah,
Blah blah blah, bleet little sheep.
"
?

when a person, that person being you or anyone, is making a post expecting a little more maturity and they see such a response is plain rude. no ifs ands or buts. they offer a service and someone just says blahblahblah as an opening?

wha confuses me what is your complaint other than please don't post stupid shit outside of Nonesense... ?

has someone specificly said to not post something? specificaly to You after you posted the thread?

if you've broke no rules then what the hell is wrong? we have said over and over if you just wanna be silly by all means be so in nonesense.

hell. if i started my cult in GD i'd be chastised too... GD is a semi serious board. 'general discussion'. not tag or nonesensical posts.

as far as mods disagreeing and closing it or what not i've seen it done like twice in almost a year. it didn't happen again.

most everybody here have a couple of main things in common: we like silly stuff, a lot of us like serious stuff, a lot of us just like porn. we all disagree vastly and a couple of users i'd enjoy beating with the sharp side of an axe. buuuuuuut we tolerate. we observe and try to practice the rules. we try to respect each other, everything else beside. sure there are bad apples. oh well.

we politely ask for nonesense to go there. look at bones, unclephil and flyman. sure they may post a sillyish thread on a board but they mainly stick to nonesense because it's why they're here. they do not feel the need to interupt other boards.

if someone does feel the need, then tough. they do their damndest. if someone insists on being a dick, fucking ban their ip and bubye.

now, bileage, if i am way off key, tell me politely. i simply do not see your problem other than not liking rules.

i fucking hate rules. but this is a place given to me. when you visit one's house you do so in respect. if not, more power to them for dislodging you.

i'm trying to get the idea.

This is simple to see. billege is trying his hardest to feel victimized in order to backup his point. Sorry dude. I'm still not seeing much validity.

You're still working in theory with your accusations, and you're not providing solid examples.

To everyone,

So I guess we should set some ground rules for you all right here and now.

The TFP is not *yours*
The TFP is *ours*
I'm the commander in chief.
The rules enforced on the TFP will be for the intended comfort of the general public with respect to MY goal of creating a community where everyone can feel free to share their life.
The moderators will be held in check by ME, so if you have any complaints about them, you must speak with me exclusively or else you'll never be truly heard.
Since so much revolves around me, your loyalty to the TFP then depends on your trust for me. If you do not trust my judgement (which I can only try to assure you is as objective as possible at all times) then the least you can do is make a quiet exit.


Now, after all that, if you fail to see the reasoning behind my request for (generally) MORAL LEADERSHIP, which was exactly what my original post called for, then you, my friends, are not trying to understand ME. You are being selfish. You are not as concerned as I am for the direction that this board is going in. Pay more attention.

If you're worried this will turn into an impotent Orwellian universe of drones, you've gotta up your dose of Prozac.

That is all.

After reading Hal's initial message and the ensuing postings over the past couple days, I have come to the conclusion that I fail to see what the problem is with a simple set of directional guidelines. We all know, or should know, the basics; Hal has, in my mind anyway, reinforced those guidelines and suggested some new ways to help the Forum grow.

Pax vobiscum...

well said :)

it's bad when people fail to understand what the word 'community' means.

you're doing good, guys.

two Z's up!

I'm going to go through the list and give my interpretation so I can try and figure out what this big arguement is about.

Being friendly to new members, as long as I have been around, this hasn't been a problem. Lately, I've noticed many members (several who have posted in this thread) letting someone know that they did something that was rude or just not allowed. This seems to be a nonissue since I've witnessed it before the creation of this thread.

I like to occasionally leave a quick, smartassed quip. It may not be as good as something that marco, bones, or phred come up with,but it's fun occasionally. But just don't make it the only thing that you do. I don't see that as much of a problem, just keep it at least a little balanced, occasionally adding something more than a quick joke in a thread.

Let's face it, many of us, myself included, don't want to go into a thread, then have to click on a link to an article where we get stuck seeing popups/unders when the article can easily be copied into the thread. Also, if you are posting a thread, there is a direction that you probably want the thread to take, it doesn't take much to add one's opinion to the article.
There really isn't much room for discussion when the thread is just asking for a list. A thread like that just seems very boring to me.
As long as I've been here, Hal's been trying to get more people into chat. He had to drag me in there just to tell me that I was going to be a mod. Now, I'm constantly in there. It's just an extention of the board that helps the members become better aquainted with one another.
Again, this is something that has been stressed for a while now. If you like something, let the poster know. There's nothing worse for a poster than putting for the effort and the time trying to do something for the enjoyment of others and not seeing any positive feedback.

The way I see this is basically "don't be a dick." Who wants to post a thread only to be flamed because someone else didn't like it or just felt like being an ass? Is Hal saying we aren't allowed to disagree? No, not at all. He's just asking all of us to show the other members the same respect that we would show to someone who was sitting across from us having the same discussion. Disagreement is what makes actual discussion occur. Being an ass and flaming is counter productive. If you've been here for a while and you are a recognized name (and you know if you are), your words mean more to newer members than you think they do. We don't want people coming here and seeing those who are the "regulars" here flaming and doing the things that are against everything the tfp isn't.
I know this isn't the easiest thing for everyone to do. We're not asking you to stand in a mall, holding up a sign with the url, but if there's a friend that you know would like the site, just give them the url, you don't have to tell them your username.

If we didn't like being questioned, don't you think that we would have deleted this post and just banned you? We would like nothing more than just kick back and browse the forum without having to worry about policing it. I would love to never have to warn anyone about flaming, but, as long as people continue to do it, the mods and admins will continue to try and stop it.

To me, it's very simple, by joining the site, you agree that you are mature enough to be here. You can be silly, screwy, or whatever, as long as you show enough respect to others on the board to just be civil in your discussions.

And from what I read in Hal's initial post, he isn't asking for anything different than he has before.

Why should you think you will receive a pm? You are stating your opinion as honestly as you can. What is wrong with that? Isn't this where people exchange ideas and opinions in the ever evolving tfp?

Or is it that you expect a rebuttal since your opinion may not match the opinions of those that make the rules? If that's the case, you have a mind of your own.

statements like this are a problem:

"Blah
Blah blah,
blah blah blah
blah, whatever Halx says, blah blah,
Blah blah blah, bleet little sheep."
.................

This is rude and lacking in respect, of course. It is also irrational and uninformed. The typist is not aware of the extent of discussions that lie behind policies made here nor is he aware of the degree to which Halx engages in constructive dialog and works democratically with his staff behind the scenes.

Referring to those who have a part in Forum Leadership and the many members who happen to be in agreement of their own accord with official policy here as "little sheep" - is exactly the type of unconstructive rhetoric that lowers the level of discourse we are exposed to.

Good community citizenship is either respectful of other citizens or it is not good citizenship, is it? All this boils down to each of you taking responsibility for the level of dialog, discourse, and debate here. To hold you to account for the manner in which you handle that responsibility is a large part of what we are committed to in terms of positive site evolution.

ART I commend you as an authority her at tfp for being respectful in your responses and leading by example. Sometimes some admins and mods don't practise what they preach concerning respect which I believe is the reason why some people get discouraged by the double standard.

OFKU0, I understand what you are saying.

I tend to see the quality of communities in terms of the degree to which individuals take responsibility for their own best behavior. You can police major infractions but incremental evolution toward more positive and constructive participation is the responsibility of each member.

The most direct way to effect improvement is for each of us to take a renewed interest in upgrading the quality of our citizenship. This sort of thing is accomplished by making a decision to take more personal responsibility for the tenor and tone of our contributions. We have more direct access to ourselves than to anyone else.

Makes total sense to me.

The "sheep" portion of my post was a late addition.
It would have better served me if I'd not thought of it. Or, I had further thought that people agreeing, after posting why they did so, did certainly not make sheep.

It <i>was</i> disrespectful.
For that, I apologize.

We're all human. That's what sets us apart from the tfp world and the world of Stepford. You made some good points in your post.Points that should be looked at more closely by those in charge.

Rules and regulations are required in any community.We all know where the lines are drawn.It gets sticky though when we have to constantly look at the lines before every step we take.Control is good.That is why alot of members do self policing.Too much control and the balance slips one step closer to Stepford.No one will favor that.

If we all agreed on everything,wouldn't it be a boring static world.

live and learn.

besides... sheep don't don't say blah! (they type it!)
neeeeeeeeeeeext

RULES. That's what I needed to get this out. Thanks.
That's what is making me uncomfortable.

If I post a top five list, by which I may learn about my fellow memebers through thier choices, am I going to see it deleted because it's "not discussable?" Or, should it simply be put in a forum such as nonsense? I am unclear.

I understand the need for some rules, they make this the civilized place I've never completely left. There is a powerful attraction here, even if it wanes.

Is it necessary to make it a "rule" that an article will be linked, quoted? We all know that a post which does that is a better post. But is the rule necessary? Won't posts live or die by their quality and the response they invoke, or fail too?

I need clarification on this point: If I was to refer to an article, and NOT link to it, not quote it; would you guys delete it? Is that what the new rules mean?

What about new people? How do you think a demand for such high quality affects them? Granted, it's good that things are of such quality, but is it worthwhile for the mods to have all these rules to enforce, then also make them qualify the rules for those still learning them?
Has that been discussed among staff?

Are the rules "rules," "guidelines," or "demands." To what limits will we go in the persuit of what, perfect posts?

Those limits are what I'm worrying about.

I'm starting to feel tingly all over. Finally a shot of humor.Thank you WhoaitsZ

first off, i am no mod... but i try to do what i can. if i'm wrong i'll be corrected.

i'd assume since there is a label thats says "post ANYTHING.." by Nonesense that would mean that, since I assume a top five list would indeed be an "anything", that yes you can. in nonesense.





Yes, I personally believe posts posted from other places on the net should be submitted with the link. as for being quoted, it looks better and it is undoubtfully known that you are not the author.

i would assume the main reason is this: it annoys people fuckless to click on a thread and see a URL and nothing else. i can't begin to speak of how many times i wished to thwack someone for doing that.

as for having the link also, to me, is only right. someone works and puts these articles out. links let us check and clarify and acknowledge an author. believe me, authors seriously need recognition.

as for 'will it be deleted if i don't quote..' i doubt it will be out right deleted, especially if other people have started adding to the thread. a lot of mods , i've seen Spec and Sec in particuliar edit them properly. so if you slip, don't sweat. edit it, fix it. if you purposedly posted it out of the manner they want then, well, i don't know about the thread but the offender could very well be removable.

we all make mistakes. fuck man, i probably have two billion typos above. i almost always edit and my images never work until i point them out to enough people to be thoroughly embarressed.

te difference is when we can do a good job and we do not because we are lazy. that is just pathetic and selfish for people who rather see good posts than half assed ones.

only a jerk or flat out asshole would jump all over newbies. when i began and didn't get things quite right I got pms saying 'see?' and i learned. i've even had an admin who helped me once without my asking.

i have a feeling if someone lost their mind and devoured a newbie halx or an admin would give them a serious piece of their mind.

we want you guys to post in good taste. the mods do so. so, naturally, they understand that learning the ropes means many slip ups.

i'd not worry about the newbies at all unless you saw what apeared to be a mod gone crazy, at which time, as halx stated, you should PM him. and when you do it may take days, so have patience.


.... this is probably getting redundant for some. if it is and art or someone gives the word i'd be glad to try and explain things some more via PMs. just message me.

:) I just found this and thought it deserved to be bumped up...

**bump**

Damn straight. I bitch ALL the time about all kinds of things!! Perhaps one day, if not already, I shall become famous for my rants! lol...

People disagree all the time. Debate is encouraged here. Note that "debate" does not include calling people names, flinging insults, etc. Debate is an intellectual process.

And as far as two-word posts go, there's no need to be Cpt. Literal about it. He said don't do it so much, because it's not constructive. That means don't make 8 out of every 10 posts "YEAH! LOL!!" or some such nonsense.

I have never felt the rules of the TFP coming in around me- in fact, I have noticed that the longer and more you contribute here, there is a sense of leniency- probably because while your words may not fit the mold, the mods know you well enough to know your heart is in the right place, and you mean no real offense, and understand what you're trying to get at. Mods please scold me if i'm a bit presumptive on this.

I won't call out names, and i'm not citing any one person (especially from this thread) but it seems like the only people I ever hear complaining about the "restrictive rules" of the TFP are those who somewhat regularly engage in those fundamentally wrong things the TFP serves to protect it's community from. How seriously can we take your gripe when you don't follow basic, simple rules that are established for your own safety and happiness?

To anyone: If you don't like it, leave. For every wise-assed, too-good-for-this-place person who leaves, there is at least one person out there somewhere who would LOVE this community, if only they knew it existed. 30,000 members and counting... i'm sure the next true believer is somewhere in the ranks of the Rookie tag, just waiting to truly blossom. Make some server space for them.

*gives TFP a hug*

Good one, reminded me once again to the join chat (haven't been there in a long while...)
/hangs head in shame/
;)

edit: Chat seems not to work here...
(possibly blocked as I'm using the CS dept. educational PC's ;) I'll be checking in more regularly...)

Even after reading all of the above, I'm with Hal, and phredgreens post. I've been told off by the mods once or twice - fair enough. I seem to remember phredgreen having a bit of a go at me a while back, but that's life. If you want to be in a place, you need to abide by the regs. If you don't like the regs, either go elsewhere or speak up and ask why the regs are there, say (in a calm, constructive manner) that you think the regs could do with a change or that you disagree with tem, but be prepared for the answer of "no" to come back.

Personally, I feel that the TFP is a great place - I love it and spend far too much of my time here. :)
I have one rule I disagree with - the complete ban on posting pics with kids in them. I think it is taking things a bit far. But, I rasied the point when it was introduced, it was debated, and (although I can't remember the exact wording of the reply I got), I was told that the rule was not going to get changed. I was told it had been thought about a lot before it's introduction and it was needed as the privilage was being abused. Fair enough - there are some idiots around who cause rules to be imposed on everyone, even though they may prohibit perfectly legitimate/legal etc actions. That's life - shit happens! If every human on the planet behaved really well and with consideration for everyone else on the planet all the time, there would be no reason for mods and the like, but they don't - thus you have to accept it.

My god - I went on a bit there! Anyway - well done Halx/all the mods for making the TFP great, and I support your rules/regs, even if I don't fully agree with them - you had your reasons for introducing them and I respect that as I want to stay here. I truly in my heart want to stay here as it's a great place!

Lastly, IMHO a mod should make this thread a sticky - it's sometimes too many pages down for people to notice it - I went all the way through the pages because I was bored!

I definately agree the spam-esque posts that dominate teh nonsense board need to be toned down. And how long do these sort of threads need to be archived? It would probably restore a lot of space if some of the boards were pruned a little bit. A lot of them would work BETTER in the chat room. If people were actually in the chat room. I've been on the chat room for about a week, and I see the same dozen people all the time. THere HAVE to be more active TFPers than that.

Also, it is a lot more fun to read a paragraph long post than a single sentence or even monosyllabic one.

I joined the TFP in the summer of 2002. I lurked for awhile... then got banned, which I deserved. I then signed up again and participated in the Titty Board and the Links section. Let me say that I really do miss the pr0n, but it has forced me to check out the other areas of the site as well. I have become involved in the General Discussion forum as I feel there's lots of good topics that people won't kill each other over. The Paranoia forum is keen as well. I really appreciate all the hard work that Halx and others put into the site.

However, I do think there are some difficulties with the moderators. A few months ago while the TB was still working someone posted a thread under the "Amateur" catagory with a misleading name. I wrote a reply that said "Why did I look?" and I was warned by a moderator. I did not get into a big argument with the mod as I felt that the issue was not worth me losing my access to the TFP community. I think repectful disagreement is alright, but this place is Halx's and the mods are appointed by him. He makes the rules and I will respect that.

All in all, the TFP is a great place to come and have some fun. But I do miss the pr0n !! ;)

This is basicly just polite behaviour on the net. You should never join up and start posting. To do so is to risk looking as foolish as the twits who post computer hacks to rec.games.roguelike.nethack (this Usenet group is for the discussion of a swords and scorcery type role playing game).

The TFP is just the place to be. I miss the TB (not to mention the 'wayside') but do enjoy reading the other areas. Love the debates over nothing (comes natural when you are pissed) and even the occasions where you do truely get educated.
Haven't tried the chat rooms though as the thought scares me a little. I haven't used a chat room ANYWHERE!! (and wouldn't know where to start).