Child Harnesses
 

I'm just wondering what you guys would think of child harnesses. I personally use one often with my 3 yr old daughter. It's a simple chest strap with shoulder straps and velcro. It's designed for children and I bought it at the local Walmart store. I haven't seen any other children wearing them. My daughter has a lot of energy and when she's not in a cooperative mood especialy I use it when in the department or grocery store. She doesn't mind it except when she knows it will restrict her from running around and she is wanting to do her own thing. I use it because I think it's rude to have children running around, it'd dangerous when she runs off and I'm able to concentrate on what I need to get without worrying that she'll get snatched. Mostly I have gotten positive feedback from people in the stores. This past week though was a disappointment.

My daughter was very antsy and instead of making her ride in the basket of the cart because it's hard to get her in an out of the seat I let her walk with the harness on. She wasn't minding it. In fact while I was standing there comparing some shampoos she decided to play "doggy" and while she "panted" she held her "paws" in front of her like she was begging. Personally I though it was harmless but a woman came around the corner into the isle I was in. I glanced up because she stopped dead and stared at me. My daughter caught her presence and stopped her game. The woman just gave me the most scathing look and said "There's no need for a leash on a child." Then apparently forgetting to get what she needed she turned tail and waltzed off.

I never responded and just finished my shopping. I've gotten enough positive feedback from people that this woman shouldn't matter to me but I can't help but think about it.

Do you guys think a harness on a 3 rd old child is overkill? Am I just being paranoid or controlling? Any thoughts to help me forget this woman's rude comment would be helpful.

Every parent must do whats right for them and their children and every situation is completely different. It is very easy to pass judgement on others situations when not knowing anything about it. I wouldn't be bothered by her looks or any other comments you may receive if you feel like you are doing the best thing for your child.

That being said, I am not one for harnesses. I believe it takes away from a discipline that the child should be receiving from the parent. Its kinda like using a tv to babysit. Yes children will get into trouble without the harness, but thats parting of the growing pains of being a parent. Use these situations to teach and help the kid grow up to be respectful of their surroundings. If they are on a harness or leesh when they are younger, they have not learned these important lessons and will be even more difficult to control as they get older.

I would have said "thank you for your kind comment" or "why do you say that". I'm sure she would have been the first to give you the scathing look if your daughter was running around.
Don't worry about whay other people say, I'm sure you have your reasons for using a harness. I agree with Wile E in that you should limit it's use. I can see using one at a real busy fairground or something like that. Nothing worse than a missing child.

I have twin girls, a harness sure would have helped while out shopping.:)

I used harnesses on my kiddos when they were that age.
Don't worry what other people think.
That one time when you can stop them from dashing out in the street will make it all worth it.

I'm anti-harness, but I guess it's a personal parenting choice.

I do limit the harnesses use. When in the airport or on a layover with her on the way to another gate it's so great. I don't have to worry about leaving baggage to chase her down or someone snatching her. I don't use it too often. Mostly when she is out of control and so I warn her that if she can't calm down and stay near me that I will have to put her harness on. She's getting too tall for the seat in the carts and putting her in the basket sometimes can result in squashed food. I agree. My use of the harness is dwindling some because she is learning to listen. It's just I felt like I was some sort of abuser or something when she gave me that look. Thanks guys.

I didn't use a harness, but aren't opposed to one when it's needed, either. However, I would also limit its use.
Take care,
Shyla

each partent makes their own decisions. do what works for you and your family.

i'm not a leash person. i agree with the lady, but i'm not about to tell you how to raise your kids.

I used to be against them, that was until I had kids of my own and read about kids being snatched while they were standing right next to their parents.

Also, I've noticed that the people that are the quickest to give you parenting advice are the people that don't have kids.

If you don't mind threating your kids like dogs, then sure, go ahead..

We used them on our 8 year old son, nolo problemo. ONe person told us that it was cruel, I asked Ms. Nosy if she had kids, she said 'No', and my wife promptly told her to STFU. The 15 month-old is now inheriting the harness.

Harness use comes in handy later on. If my son starts acting like a little shit in Wal-Mart, I hint that we need to get a big-enough pinch collar from Petsmart, and he settles down pretty quick.because I'll actually do it.

Threats work much better when they think you're actually crazy enough to do it. :D

harness/leash vs. the alternative: lost child! don't let anyone sway your choice on this one. Some children are more "active" than others and need special help

Man, I don't know where some people come off, telling other people how they ought to raise their children. It's clear to me and anyone else who [i]talks to you about it[i] that you it's a tool, used in moderation, to protect your daughter from the world and the world from your daughter.

I don't have kids, but I have noticed that the parents who have their kids on a leash seem WAY more sensible and realistic, to me, than those who yell ineffectually after them while they tear stores and restaurants apart.

i'd "leash" my kids if i had them. Sure it may appear cruel to some people, but nothing is cruelier than having to live with yourself if you child is snatched becasue you were getting groceries and they ran off. Dont use it as a substitute for smacking that child on the head when they do something wrong, but if it helps you keep track of them, more power to you.
I wish my mom harnessed me sometimes.. i got lost quite a few times as a child because i was too inquisitive.

I think it's kinda overkill and always give weird looks to parents walking around with their seemingly well behaved kid on a leash, but trust me, it's a hell of a lot better than some of those parents who just let thier kids run wild in stores/restaraunts.

Or even worse, don't do a damned thing while their kids run amok. That pisses me off in a hurry...

Personally, I'm dead sead against leashes on kids - but I would never judge anyone's "parenting skills" based on this! My girls are extremely well behaved, and I refused to restrain them in any way. But, I have two friends who do use leashes when they go to malls. Their kids really are great, but tend to get a little excited and run off when they see something cool. :) They use the leashes so they don't lose the kids when they look away for a second.

I think every parent has the right to choose for themselves, and what's right for your daughter is 1. up to you, and 2. not what's necessarily right for any other kid.

I do think unless you're abusing a kid or letting the kid run wild (which you very kindly WEREN'T) or doing something that might lead to your child getting hurt (letting them stand up in the cart or something) it's nobody's business and the woman was out of line to comment.

I also think the whole "leash" thing has been blown out of proportion. Sure you use a leash on a dog, but I hardly think a little kid is going to think "my mommy puts a leash on my just like a doggy, she must think I'm an animal" which I think is where people get pissed - they think it's demeaning or something, a metaphorical leap that a kid is not likely to make. All the kid thinks is "want toy! want toy! want toy! oof, can't go any further" and if they do make the "doggy" connection, they more than likely think it's fun and pretend, just like your daughter did.

I hate to say it, but when I see a parent who has their kid on a leash all I can think of is what a lazy parent they are, and that they shouldn't have kids cause they don't have the energy to watch after them. Kids are not pets and should never be treated as such. As far as I'm concerned throwing a leash around a kid is child abuse. When I was a kid I never wondered away from my mom, and that's because she knew it was her responsibility to make sure that it wouldn't happen, and it didn't. It takes effort and because most people are lazy they just can't do it. For the sake of your child, I would strongly suggest burning the leash as soon as possible.

"Do you guys think a harness on a 3 rd old child is overkill? Am I just being paranoid or controlling? ?

In my opinion - Yes.

If it's designed for kids, Then what's the problem?

Kids are curious and like to wander, I think that it's normal for a 3 year old not to realize that he/she has to stay by Mom's side at all times.

I'm not really sure where child abuse comes into this...

Who really cares what other people think...From what you said nobody except for 1 person has commented about it...So the few that do complain...Just brush them off your shoulder.

It's none of thier Buisness anyways..

I was holding my friends Pitbull one day while he ran into the store and he had a piece of rope for a leash...It was just a temporary thing till he got a real leash...But somebody made a smart ass Comment as they walked by saying "Dog on a rope" I gave him a pretty dirty look and asked if he had a problem, But he just kept walking.

If it gives you extra security over your kid...Then Keep using it.

This is one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard of. Once a person becomes a parent, they need to pay complete attention to their children at all times. Using a leash not only tells me they are unresponsible, but it's definately the lazy man's way out, and that's not something to teach your children.

Toss it in the trash and be a responsible parent.

Considering how our society is today, no, I don't think you are being paranoid or controlling.

I've not seen any data that says a harness is harmful to a child's psyche, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I would have asked Ms Nosy if she were a registered child therapist and when she said, "no", I would have replied, "Well, I'll give your opinion all the consideration it deserves, thank you!" and walked away.

Oh, and of all those who are decrying the use of the leash, how many of you are actually parents?

me, why?

Well, I saw some lady with her kid on one at the mall once. I thought it was awful to see it, but then again it may not be a bad idea. Hell my parent's probably should have used one on me when I was a little kid, I was a lil devil :hmm:

Why childproof your house either? If you were really responsible you would make sure your child didn't get into anything he/she wasn't supposed to. All of you parents who got rid of your guns and started locking up your poisonous cleaners when your child started to crawl are lazy and irresponsible. (sarcasm)

Not I, but that doesn't mean a thing. That's a lame argument if you're trying to start one. Kids should be treated as people... Not animals. Why not just get them neutered/spade while you're at it? http://www.boomspeed.com/sixate/icon_rolleyes.gif

Oh, come on. If someone puts a kid in a playpen, do you object because it's like a kennel? Or if they let them play in those little tunnel things, do you object because it's too much like a hamster run? Are sandboxes too much like litterboxes? I think everyone blows this all out of proportion, and there's no "animalizing" of the kid just because they have a tether on. Again, it's the adults who make that connection and not the kids. If the options are let the kid run free or have a grip on their hand all the time, the first is undesirable and the second, once they hit a certain age, is impractical. I see no good reason not to use a tether if the parent is otherwise attentive and the kid is well-behaved.

I wouldn't/won't use a playpen when/if I ever have kids. I was never put in one when I was a kid, and that's because my mother wasn't lazy. She spent the time it took to teach me and my sister how to behave. She didn't just lock us up or strap us into a leash because she couldn't control us. I'll also add that I was never hit as a child. My mom always taught me and my sister the difference between right and wrong and we both understood those differences at young ages, and the reason we understood it was because we were never treated like children or animals! We were always treated just like any other adult.

I'll object to the sandbox thing if the child starts to shit in it. :p Then I would blame that on a lazy ass parent, once again, who isn't spending enough quality time with their children.

I disagree that it's adults making the leashes=animal connection. She said that her child was acting like a dog in public. :eek: I have a serious problem with that. Try and tell me that her child didn't make the animal connection to having a leash on her. I can assure you that I never acted like that in public when I was a kid. People always told my parents that they couldn't believe how well mannered me and my sister were when we were young..... And my mom didn't need a leash or a playpen to accomplish that.

Feh. You guys that are anti-leash don't get it.

Babies--defined as children under the age of three-- are untamed little creatures--some until later ages than others--no matter how much *training* you give them.

Some kids are walking at age one. A child restraint device is used to protect a child, much like safety seat in a car. A harness is nowhere as restrictive as a car seat btw; being in one of those is like being entombed--but I digress.

One simply cannot keep one's eyes glued to a child and do anything else, i.e. shop & pay for groceries, etc.

Over-use of the leash is not cool, but if you gotta get a job done--and a stroller isn't appropriate/available then put the harness thingie with the *leash* on the kid, and be safe.

Anyone who actually believes that a child is an untamed creatures should never have a kid. I'll bet any amount of money that a parent who believes that will have serious problems with their children. It's not about training or controlling... It's about teaching. Something that most people can't do. I'm not saying it's an easy thing to do, but it can be done with a lot of effort.

My daughter was never an untamed creature, sure it is stressful keeping up at times, but I never felt like I needed to tie a rope to her!

Art,

Because I am more interested in hearing a parent's point of view than someone who hasn't had children.


Sixate,

Most of the arguements I would make in reply to you have already been well made by lurkette and Double D.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion and I will continue to disagree with it.

But if you see me with my kid in a harness, kindly keep it to yourself, because frankly, I'm not interested in debating my parenting style with you.

I just realised that I sounded a bit harsh, but it really gets my goat when I am out in public minding my own business and someone feels like they need to share an opinion that is unasked for and unwelcome, especially when I feel it is ignorant.

Okay Sixate, I'll bite.

Here's precisely what I mean by *little untamed creature.*

untamed

adj : in a natural state; not tamed or domesticated or cultivated;
----------------------
crea·ture
n.

Something created.

A living being, especially an animal: land creatures; microscopic creatures in a drop of water.
A human.
An imaginary or fantastical being: mythological creatures; a creature from outer space.
One dependent on or subservient to another.
-----------------------

lit·tle
adj. lit·tler, or less (ls) also less·er (lsr) lit·tlest or least (lst)

Being at an early stage of growth; young: a little child.
Younger or youngest. Used especially of a sibling: My little brother is leaving for college next week.

Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University
-------------------------------------------------

And you may be right. Maybe I never should have had children.

One has done little with his life so far.

The other is in the full-day gifted program, sings in a choir that performs internationally, plays trumpet well, is a Boy Scout, and is all 'round decent & kind person.

I find it very ironic that people that have never taken on the most challenging job in the world, deign to foist their judgmental attitudes on those of us that have undertaken the task.

To use a favorite phrase of yours, those people should STFU.

No Lebell, you do not sound harsh.The harshness was started earlier in this thread.

You sound like a caring responsible parent, as is the lady who started this thread.

I just wish she had gotten the kind support that a vast number of people showed me when I was looking for a bit of advice.

right...
Typically I don't just proffer my opinions on this sort of thing.
The thread starter requested them and ended the post with a couple of questions. I figure it's one of those trying to get a cross-section sampling of audience feedback deals.

understood.

heh, looks like in good ole' TFP fashion, we've supplied that
:)

Amen and send money.

Sixate and BoCo: if either of you jokers ever actually end up with a child (:lol: yeah right, no woman would put up with either of you two :lol: ), then your opinions on this will actually be worth something. And I guarantee you would change your minds real quick.

No one can keep an eye on a child 24/7. I tried, it doesn't work. You will have nothing accomplished except that you've raise a child that will demand to be the center of attention at all times and regardless of the cost to themselves or their family.

A leash allows you to give the child a limited range to roam while you still maintain a sufficient amount of control over where they are going. It allows you to balance exploration (needed for proper brain development) with safety (needed to keep the child from danger). If you don't let a child explore, they will grow up to be imbeciles. If you don't keep a child safe, they won't get to grow up.

When properly used, the leash is an excellent parenting tool. Even when it's not properly used, at least the kids aren't destroying the store and running out into the parking lot.

You want to see the lazy parent? It's not the one with the leash, it's the one whose children are the candy aisle opening every package because someone thought their children were too righteous to be restrained in any way.

i for one, 100% agree with harnesses, dont worry about what other people think, a child harness saved my life when i was like 3, im serious. From what my dad tells me, my family was at the grand canyon, and i just up and tried to run off into the canyon, harness + strap saved me before the edge = /

keep that harness on! = )

I don't see too many harnesses in use where I live, but have seen it ocasionally. I think it's good if it works for the family that is using it.

My boys are now 8 and 11, and even living in the small town that I do, I feel uncomfortable if they get outside my field of vision in a store or public place.

I did not use one, but would agree that they are probably good tools in the right hands.

PS Zxello - My parents may have been better off using one, and I would not have darted out in front of that car when I did. Thank goodness for good brakes, quick reflexes, and an alert driver. I suffered minor scrapes and bruising.

On the subject of "animilization" of children. (is that the opposite of personification?) Who here has not in their childhood played a good old game of "let's all pretend we are dogs","cats","bunnies","farm animals" etc.

Re: Child Harnesses
 

IANAParent, but it seems like a reasonable compromise to me; your kid gets to run around and burn energy, but doesn't get to drive others crazy by running around, grabbing stuff, getting underfoot, and all the other things three year olds do.

Besides, you can find fault with anything a parent does if you want to. No leash? "Letting them run wild like little barbarians." Stuck in the trolley? "Too lazy to let them walk and pay attention to them."

That's funny. I have a crackhead friend who has a young child. He only gets to see him once a month. I would stop by his house when he had his boy because most of the time he was smoking weed or snorting coke right in front of him. A few times he's been passed out and I've taken his son home with me. This is a typical problem child who is 100% out of control when he is around his mom, dad, and grandparents. I know because I know them all. The times that I took his son I tried to take him to his grandparents and they didn't even want to watch him because their lazy drunk worthless asses can't handle him. So I've watched him. He was tough at first, but after a lot of work this kid acts like a normal child around me. I didn't have to throw a leash around him, tie him up, or beat him. Like I said, it's all about teaching. Most people don't know how to do it. Throwing a leash on a child doesn't teach a thing. It's the lazy way out and quite honestly I find it disgusting. This child's mom and dad can never understand why he behaves when I'm around, but as soon as I leave he goes back to being the problem child. I know why. His son is very smart and doesn't respect them because he knows that they don't respect him so he acts like a maniac. As I've said many times before and I'll continue to say. I know I'm more capable of raising a child than most parents out there. With that said, the reason I don't have a kid is I haven't found anyone that I would want to have a kid with. I'm also going to wait until I have a better job and can provide everything and them some to a child. Also, I won't have a kid unless one parent is going to stay at home and raise the child. I feel it is very important to have a parent at home. I would never let anyone else raise my child. I would totally be willing to quit my job and stay at home if I was making significantly less money than the person I would happen to be with. Lastly, I know that at this point in time I'm still a little to selfish to raise a child... I know I would make my share of mistakes, but that's how you learn. It's the responsibility of a parent to make good on their mistakes. All of my friend who do have kids are horrible parents. Also, I have told every one of them exactly that. They didn't like to hear it, but I'll tell you what. Not one of them even tried to prove me wrong.

You can say that I'm judge-mental on this issue because I wouldn't disagree. It saddens me to see the amount of mis-parenting going on, and nobody seems to care.

Mom mom did it with her two children. She has two extremely independant kids who have never been in trouble, never even tried drugs or had drinking problems. When we were kids we were the most well mannered kids that anyone has ever met and we never tried to be the center of attention.... So try to find a better excuse than the weak one that you're using.

I have two daughters - aged 8 and 5. And as I stated, I would NEVER have thought of using a leash on them. My wife and I are very lucky, both girls are incredibly well behaved. We were quite strict on what are children were able to do when out in public - and that sticks with them even today. The only leash we needed were our hands. If we were concerned about them getting lost in the mass of people at a busy mall, we held their hands at ALL times. Inconvenient? I guess. But that's the way we preferred to do it.

But even after that little rant, I wouldn't dare question anyones parenting skills if they use a harness. Like I said, both of my girls are very well behaved, but I know there are some children out there that even a leash and being watched 24/7 won't prevent them from wandering off or getting into trouble. I get much angrier when I see kids tearing ass through stores, terrorizing anyone and anything in their path. THOSE are truly lazy parents...

Are you sure she didn't use parenting aids like leashes and playpens? Remember, you were a child back then, and you certainly didn't know everything that was going on.

Are you sure that you sibling didn't try drugs, or does he/she just say that to keep you from having to hear your judgmental attitude about her/him? Are you sure that your sibling isn't hiding a drinking problem? Do you watch your sibling 24/7 to make sure that they don't have these problems?

As much as you're posting on a topic you know nothing about (which is not atypical for you), it looks to me like you're insisting on being the center of attention. Weak excuse? It can't be too weak an excuse if you're proving my point for me.

I know for a fact that I was never in a leash or a playpen. My mom would have many negative comments about child leashes. Trust me, she's probably more against them than what I am.

I can also assure you that my sister is not a pothead and doesn't have a drinking problem. She has never and would never try any drugs either. She may be a cunt, but she's not a moron. I'll bet that I have a more open relationship with my sister and mom than anyone out there. I hide nothing and neither do they. I'm not putting them above anyone else because I can name you quite a few things that each have done that I do hate and that I would never do, but this topic isn't one of those cases.

Just because you don't like my opinion(s) that doesn't mean I don't know a thing. My mom didn't use any child restraints to raise me and my sister and we had more freedom than any other kid that I've ever known. She's never had any problems with either one of us, but I suppose that because you wouldn't agree with her either that she knows nothing about being a parent? That's ridiculous. I'm not trying to be the center of attention. You may think that if you like. This is a place of sharing opinions, right? That's all I'm doing. And because you don't agree with mine I know nothing? Again, that's an opinion that you're entitled to.

Reanna -- you are asking for honest opinions in this thread and that is what you've gotten from a lot of people. I saw the thread yesterday, but did not have time to read it. Lebell mentioned it to me, so I'm reading it today.

First, a little background: I am a teacher and a parent educator. I have taught parenting classes for 9 years now. I tend to use "Love and Logic" parenting the most - although I think it is best for 4-year-olds and above. I am also in the midst of raising my 4th and 5th children. I have 2 grown step-sons (one of whom is very much like your 3-year-old) and another son. So, I am a parent and thus have the experience Lebell is calling for.

The major thing I have learned over the years of teaching everything from "at risk" (jailed for abuse) parents to "high functioning" parents is that every parent truly loves their child -- some just have better skills then others. Also, there is no such thing as a perfect parent nor a perfect child.

With all that said, the other thing I've learned is that we all need to make our own best decisions. Lebell asked me last night if I'd ever use a leash and my response was a firm, "no." I like to hold my children's hands. I feel that we do not touch our children enough in today's society so I like to positively touch mine as much as possible. However, I continued to explain, I am not a shopper. I spend very little time in the mall and when I did shop, when the kids were younger, I mostly left them home. With that said, I continued to explain to him, that I would NEVER JUDGE someone who chose to use a leash as I do not know the parent or the child. That I trust that he/she is making a choice that is best for him/her. I would, however, "judge" if I felt the leash was being used harshly. In your case, it does not sound like you are being harsh -- just using a method of parenting that works for you. It is not our place to judge you. We are not walking in your shoes or raising your child. We do not know your 3-year-old's personality or your personality. Continue to be the loving, caring parent you obviously are, and things will be just fine -- never perfect -- but fine! You obviously care, or this woman would not have bugged you. In the long run, it is the love you give your child that matters.

Sixate, regardless of whether your mom used these things or not, that doesn't mean their use is not appropriate for other parents and other children. The "my parents did/didn't do X and I turned out just fine" argument had been used to justify everything from letting kids drink beer to whopping them with a belt. Bottom line, there's no evidence that using leashes hurts the kid in any way, and the lady who commented in the store was out of line, IMHO.

Another thing to note is that these "awful parenting practices" go in trends. 20 years ago letting your kid eat sugar was tantamount to child abuse. 30 years ago, you were supposed to let the kid lay in their crib and scream to teach them independence. Now there's this whole movement against any kind of restriction - playpens are seen as evil, leashes are demeaning, and children should be given choices in everything from what they eat to where they sleep. There's no evidence for any of this stuff, in fact there's plenty of evidence to show that kids turn out pretty much ok regardless, unless you're locking them in a closet or abusing them. People are anxious about kids, and everyone thinks they know best. I agree with whoever said that we should all pretty much STFU about what parents are doing with their kids, unless it's clear that they're doing something to harm them or raising little brats. But face it - all kids are pretty much brats at one time or another. I was. I'm sure you were, despite your memory otherwise. Kids are inherently selfish, they want what they want when they want it and they generally haven't learned all the rules about when not to scream about it.

And parents pretty much can't win. If they let the kid run, they're careless breeders. If they have the kid on the leash, they're demeaning the child. If they have the kid in the cart and the kid is screaming bloody murder because they want down, the parent can't control their kid and would you PLEASE take your screaming child outside? I think we should all cut them a bit of slack.

/rant

I don't care how great a mother one has; if a man uses the word *cunt,* when referring to his sister, he has serious issues regarding *all* women.

I also have serious issues with TFP for allowing a moderator to continue referring to women this way. I know, I can just leave, right? Like it or lump it. You claim to want to increase the percentage of women here. Prove it. Have some guidelines on this.

I know from personal/work experience that a man who dehumanizes women by calling them *cunt* in a fashion as this, is more likely to hit and/or rape a woman. Food for thought.

Having crackhead friends isn't saying much for his judgement, either.
I've said my peace, now I'm exiting.

You know how Hannibal Lecter is bound up in Silence of the Lambs. I recomend that kind of set up for kids.
They can bite you know!!!

BTW, She calls herself a cunt, and wouldn't disagree with me.
I'll add that the crackhead I speak of is an ex friend of mine. I'm through with trying to help him. He's betrayed my trust one too many times and spit in my face while he was in the hospital after trying to commit suicide(hung himself) right in front of his kid.. Now I've said my peace, and I will exit also.

Thank you all for your input. I expected to get a few different points of view and can easily say that I did. However you feel about raising your own children if you have a passion and conviction that your choice is the best for you then I think you will do better. If you choose to keep your child off the leash and yet controlled and you are willing to defend it the more power to you. If you choose otherwise then no one should have the right to criticise you if the child is being treated kindly otherwise.

I feel the input you've given me has been very helpful in me deciding how to yet use the leash if at all. I have so far used it in moderation. I am not at liberty to leave my child at home while shopping and I'm on a limited budget so have to compare prices carefully. There are times when I really do need certain items and it may not be a good time for my daughter. She may be tired or wound up. At those times I will probably resort to the leash only when I see she isn't able to control herself because of being tired or otherwise. I will use the leash when in the airports simply because I feel the risk is too great and my daughter would get to excited by the people and happenings to control herself yet. I think I will probably use the harness less but if anyone chooses to make a negative comment I will be more ready with a polite rebuke for sharing their unsolicited opinion.

Just as a note. My daughter likes to play puppy quite frequently and even "begs" for animal crackers in play. I play the game with her and she even "feeds" me sometimes. Perhaps that may seem strange to some. It's a fun time for the both of us. When my daughter was playing "puppy" in the store it was just an extension of our game.

Thank you all for the input.

Reanna -- good for you! You took the feedback, evaluated and made your own choice! Good parenting is about thinking through your choices and knowing that you are doing what is best for you and your child! You are the only one that can do that.

I didn't use one on my daughter (now age 16), though I can certainly see where one would have been usefull at times. I have a son that will be having his first birthday in a few days. I may use one...I may not. So far, he behaves himself very well in public. We've only had to take him out of a restaraunt once, because he was fussy. In stores, he sits in the cart and entertains himself. He has learned, however, that he can grab things from the shelf if we "park" too close. And this we have corrected. Will I use a leash on him? Not at this point. As long as he behaves and respects his boundaries, no problem. Should one develop, then I see no problem at all with employing whatever tools I have at my disposal, leashes included. I would much rather see a child restrained than running around the store like a wild animal. Don't tell me that you haven't seen these children. I can promise you that my son will not be one of those, no matter what non-abusive methods I have to employ.

I have 3 kids, 12, 11, and 4. I have not had to use a leash on any of them. I do not use physical violence on my children either. My children are well behaved and never run off in public. At the grocery store they stand by the cart and the 4 year old still rides in the seat.

To each his own but you can raise good kids without physical altercation. Yes, a leash is a physical punishment.

How do you figure? That's a truly bizarre statement. It's not hurting the kid in any way, just restraining them from going too far away from their parents. It gives them more liberty than, say, a car seat. Are car seats physical punishment too?

What if they weren't and did?
Not everyone's kids are the same.

I am not talking about abuse here so please don't think that. I am talking about using a physical restraint instead of teaching your child to behave.

A car seat is needed because when you drive to protect your child in an accident. You cannot control the cars around you. The car seat is not made to keep your child under control although it does work for that purpose.

You should be able to teach your child to behave without it becoming physical. You should not have to restrain your child so you don't have to pay attention to what they are doing.

I find these "easy" fixes to be the problem we are having with parenting today. Playstation or Xbox so you can get some house work done, TV in their room so you can watch what you want to watch, internet so that you can have some peace and quiet, child leash so you can shop in peace and not have to worry about where your kids are going, pagers and cell phones so that you can get in touch with your child instead of teaching your child to check in and always knowing where they are at, and there are more things like this that are taking away from our children what we should be teaching them.


Just my opinion.

if i got to fidgety... i got in trouble.. misbehaving was not an option. PERIOD

Exactly Cynthetiq.

My kids know right from wrong not because they were special kids at birth that do nothing wrong because of the excellent breading skills my wife and I have... It is because we raised them to be good kids. We taught them how to behave in public and if they did not they knew they would be in trouble. They do what I teach them to do not out of fear of being punished but because I have instilled proper behavior into them and they want to be good.

Children are not born bad. You parents can use that excuse until you are blue in the face but it just isn't true. (This does not include children with learning disabilities and mental illness. They are not bad at birth either just need special attention and education.)

While I may agree that children are not necessarily born bad, I do think that some children are born a little more "high-strung" than others. If a "leash" is what will keep a child from running into traffic (as an example), then I would have to support that. I think that I would consider the use of one if I felt that it became necessary. So far, I don't see it, but you never know.

I think this is a bit of a straw man argument. There's a big difference between the issue at hand - use of a leash - and a trend of permissive parenting. I don't think the use of a leash necessarily leads to or is part of permissive/neglectful parenting. A lot of people do, in fact, keep an eye on their kids' behavior while they're on a tether, but want the tether as a "security blanket" of sorts to make sure that nothing does happen to their kid if they take their eyes off them for a minute. You hear all of these abduction stories in which the parent says "I only turned around for a second and they were gone."

Additionally, none of the things you mention are really bad in and of themselves (although I'm not fond of people using TV/video games as a babysitter) and a lot depends on the intent. If you're giving a kid something to do so they'll get out of your hair and you don't have to pay attention to them, that's one thing. It's quite another thing to use a tool that makes your life easier without neglecting your child's welfare. The internet can be a good educational tool when used appropriately and with supervision. Leashes can give parents peace of mind so they don't need to get an ulcer worrying that their kid is going to be abducted if they don't have a hand on them at all times, which is virtually impossible. Cell phones and pagers can make it easier for kids to get in touch with their parents and let them know where they'll be. Again, it's the intent and the usage of the tools and not the tools themselves that draw the line between responsible and irresponsible parenting.

You didn't answer the question.
Trying to dodge it?

Most children don't behave 100% of the time. Not unless they were manufactured by the stepford wives they don't.

What would you do?

Stop trying to pretend there doesn't exist kids who are a problem no matter how good a parrent you are. Genetics my friend, we are all different.

I work with someone who has 2 perfect kids, brilliant well behaved. The third kid is currently in a cell, was caught for burglary. She is at her wits ends as she has tried everything she can think off. Her other kids are fine so why has this one gone bad? If it was bad parenting why aren't they all bad?

I'm 47 and had a harness as a toddler. Out of my harness I once ran across the local interstate. My dad caught up with me at the median.

did he beat the snot outta you?

I don't dodge questions. My children don't run off because I watch them. I pay attention to what they are doing. When they start to walk of I ask them where they are going. If it is my 4 year old I tell him to come back beside Daddy and don't wonder off without asking me to go somewhere. This way he does not feel like he has no freedom yet he knows to let me know what ever he does. This pays off in the long run because they talk to me about their problems and plans.


Your friend's daughter must be a teenager. Things change at that age. They have more influences than just their parents. I thought we were talking about toddlers here. If you want to put your teenager in a harness......


This has nothing to do with genes. You do not have genes that make you bad. You learn everything you do. If as a parent you teach your kids what you want in a way that they are comfortable learning you will never have problems with them as young children. Like I said, teenagers are a different story but if you raise them right and keep them in a good environment and stay active in their life you shouldn’t have too many problems there either.

You do what ever it takes to keep her safe......

I know from experince that there is no greater horror than
losing one of your kids....

On the lighter side...my grandmother use to tie my little
cousin to the cloths line , by the supenders on his bib overalls..
Yep, he escaped...when she looked out, he was running down the street--his overalls were still tied to the cloths line..

BINGO!!! lurkett's once again managed to put into words what I couldn't (or am to lazy to...). I will not allow a Playstation, X-box or any of that ilk into my house. I monitor my 16 year old daughter like a damn hawk with the internet. She has neither cell phone or pager (my choice, believe me), but she does cary emergency pay phone change. I limit her to 3 phone calls (under 30 minutes) a night. I will confess that I probably (actually there's really no probably about it) let her watch <i>way</i> to much T.V. These are my choices as a parent. Right or wrong, and some may be just that, they are <i>my</i> choices. <i>If</i> I choose to use a leash with my son, then that again is my choice.

guess that means someone can still get out of the harness as well.

Wow!
You're *shoulding* all over the place here!
Holding all children and all parents to our standards is not logical.
We are all brought up differently.

And everyone, going on about how your parents brought you up isn't the issue--kiddy harnesses were not in common usage 20 or so years ago. This is a different and more potentially dangerous society we live in now.

How the heck is a mother supposed to pay perfect attention to her wee one and shop for food at the same time? By putting the child in the cart? Do you have any idea how many kids fall out of carts? What, you're going to hold their hand while you pluck things off the shelf? How 'bout when you have to fish around to pay for things?

This argument against a parent taking a humane measure for the safety of her child is not logical in any way.
And again, car seats are far more restrictive--and they are used for the same reason--to control & protect the child.
Jeebus people, children are not miniature adults.

(Just for the record, my kids were/are very well-behaved in public.
The one time the youngest began to act up, I wheeled my cart up to the front desk, apologized that I needed to leave immediately, and did so.)

Not quite true, Double D. Harnesses were very much in use over 20 years ago. In fact, my parents have old 8mm films of the first (and only) time they tried putting me on a leash over 25 years ago. I would have been about four years old, and some friends who swore by their leash for their own kids bought one for my Mom. My Dad put it on me, and you should see the look I got in my eyes - I was furious! I wrapped the leash around both hands, and pulled it out of Dad's arms. I then wrapped the leash around me and refused to move until they took it off me...

Mom and Dad still pull out the old movies every now and then, and my reaction to the leash is a big joke now. But back then, not so funny... :)

In fact, I honestly believe my absolute refusal to use a leash on my daughters was instilled by the reaction I had to being in one 27 years ago. I have about a three foot leash that my girls were always on - me holding their hands...

I ran a in home day care for a number of years.
Doing the shopping, taking the kids to the park, and just going out in public can be a major project when you are trying to keep track of six kids at once.
I had a rope with hand size loops that the kids had to hang on to.
It was a leash in the sense that they couldn't get more then five or six feet away from me.
The kids liked playing the little engine who could.
We did get odd looks walking through the mall going "I think I can, I think I can."
I raised smart independent kids who question everything.
Sometimes that comes back to bite you since meek behavior doesn't fit well into that mold.
I go back to my original advice.
do what you need to and don't worry about what people say.

*wonders if the people who are for leashes would want their significant other to strap a leash on their back just because their significant other thinks they may get out of hand or in harms way and are using it for a good purpose/for protection*

I'm gonna guess that if your SO would even suggest what I just said it might be the end of a relationship. Wanna bet that all the women would say it would be demeaning for their husband to run around with their wives on a leash in public? So why isn't it demeaning to the child even though the intent would be the same? If it's good enough for the child then it should be good enough for the adult, right? Fair is fair. Maybe I'll get a leash for my next girlie and threaten her with the embarrassment of wearing it so she keeps in line. I thank all the pro-leash people for the great advice!! http://www.boomspeed.com/sixate/icon_rolleyes.gif

Oh for pitys sake Sixate. Do you think we should give kids the right to vote since they are MINI adults. Children - esp the age of toddlers and younger have not learned the dangers of the world we live in. Why do you think they run out into the road at times before you can catch them? I know for a fact that adults make mistakes. We wouldn't have car accidents if it wasn't for that fact. Children are more pron to mistakes than adults simply because they do not understand their environment as clearly as adults with more experience do. If you were to put an adult on a leash then you would be "restraining" someone who is expected to understand the dangers of their world. Those adults who don't obey our laws of the land or who endanger themselves or others can be arrested and physically restrained by handcuffs and being put in a prison cell the restraint is much more severe when adults make "mistakes". Shouldn't we be teaching children that when they loose control that others will step in to help them?

In the case in which I would use a leash on my 3 yr old daughter who (though I have explained and shown her the dangers of her world) does not fully understand the risks yet if she wanders off needs a physical reminder to help her learn to follow the limits I give her. Most of the time I do not use the leash. She is well behaved, friendly and well adjusted. When she is tired though she isn't as aware of what she is doing. It is very easy for her to run off and I am not a fast runner (no I am not out of shape just never was fast). I only use the leash when she does not remember to stay nearby while I must concentrate on what I am purchasing. She is not in the least bit shy so if she were to wander off she would not be afraid of a stranger speaking to her. There have been a number of Amber Alerts in our area in recent days and I prefer to know my daughter is close by.

A leash is not demeaning for a child. She does not seem to think so. She has played with it at home with her dolls and does not act as though she is punishing them - she'll even explain to them that it will keep them safe.

A child does not have the self control or the understanding of their world that an adult should have. They simply do not have the experience that an adult has. Likening "leashing" a child to "leashing" an adult is NOT a good argument. Leashing my daughter does not embarrass her. She acts as open and pleasant with it on as with it off. Sometimes she just needs a little help in self control since she is still learning self control.

You seem to think an adult is not a fit parent if they take their eyes off their child for one second. You also seem to think physical restraint is never appropriate. OK so next time my daughter is tired and looses her self control in the store I won't restrain her in any way. I cannot touch her or that would be physical restraint. BUT DON"T you dare criticize me if she runs screaming past you and knocks the items you are carrying onto the floor.

Physical restraint is a proper use of discipline when used in moderation and appropriately.

reanna, I'll turn off the loudmouth dickhead part of me because I have a bad habit of being like that all the time.

All I'm saying is I feel there are better ways other than using a leash to accomplish what your are doing. I have never had a hand raised to me as a kid and never had any form of physical restraint used on me as a form of discipline, and I will be the same way when I'm ready to have a child because I know it can be done..... Now, is that fair enough?

I hate when me an Sixate are both right at the same time...!!!

lol

Have you guys ever WORKED with kids? I have worked as a teacher and in multiple day cares. I have personally worked with those with ADHD, Dyslexia, Hyperkinesis, Autism, Downs, Deaf, Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and the abused. One of the day cares that I worked in took mainly Social Services kids and Special needs children. Just wait till one of you have a child and you find out he/she is autistic. Then you'll learn the value of physical restraint. If you don't learn the value of it your child will cronically have concussions. Every child is different some need extra help and some don't. A teacher I work with believes my daughter is dyslexic and possibly other things. She has had trouble learning self control even though she is extremely bright. Congratulations that you never needed help controling yourselves. Just be sure to not make blanket statements and say that no child needs a leash. Some do for special reasons.

ok- heres the two cents of me- My parrents tried a leash once on my little brother- he was about 2- almost three- he ran to the end of it and , predictably, stopped- he then looked down at the harness, undid the velcro and continued on his way- me, I dont hold with them, but i should note the reason they tried one with him is that when I was about four, my family went to a mall while on vacation in florida- i wound up racing down the mall with some other random kid- both sets of parrents yelling for us to stop- he was slightly older and when he hit the exit doors, went on out, where as, I, being smaller, could not push them open. the other kid was grabbed by two men, and found dead a few miles outside of town. I have a vague recolection of police and the other kids mother getting hysterical.... so I'm not going to dis you for using the leash.

Amen, sister! :)

I understand your point, but would you use a leash on an adult with the same problems that you stated? Like I previously stated, I believe there are better ways even if the child has a disability.

Severely Autistic Adults frequently don't get taken to the store. They are stuck at home where they can be closely monitored. Those adults who are "normal" yet loose control and get into fights or vandalize etc. don't get a harness - they get cuffs.

Anyone who would comment to you, like that woman, is a complete idiot. I can't imagine presuming to comment on any other parent unless someone or some kid was in the process of being hurt or at risk of being hurt.

Some kids have extreme high energy levels. My kids are high energy - but not quite extreme. I love little kids, but let's face it - as Bill Cosby says, they are all brain damaged! They need to be protected from themselves. Some high energy kids need these devices. You physically can't watch them every single second. I saw a kid a couple years back - the dad bent over to pick up an item to put it from the cart to the belt and ZOOM! The little hyper tyke bolted - straight out the door and into parkinglot traffic. It happened in a blink of the eye - the dad didn't even see it. He wasn't a bad dad - the kid was a typical high energy brain damaged hypoid (love the kids, but let's face facts). I can see where the harness would be the only real option for kids like this.

I have two kids (one is 9 and the other is 10 months) and I didn't harness the first and I won't be harnessing the second.

While I can see why people would want to use a leash or a harness on their kid (anything from a wrist device to full body harness) I don't see it as responsible parenting. I've read all the replys in this thread and it hasn't changed my opinion that leashing is a symptom of parents that aren't willing to give 100% of their attention to their child.

It is a parents job to teach their child how to behave and act responsibly. A leash removes a child's choice in the matter. They don't have the choice to run out of eyeshot. They don't have the choice to run wild. The choice remains with the parent.

This does not engender any sense of self control or responsibility in the child (i.e. someone posted that they wore a harness but when it was off they ran into traffic).

Is two or three years of hand holding and paying careful attention to your child too much to ask? I certainly don't think so.

A child that cannot be controlled in public (i.e. running wild in the mall) shouldn't be taken to a mall until the child is ready to behave.

That said I wouldn't bother telling anyone else how to raise their kids just as I wouldn't expect them to tell me...

What about in the meantime? While you are still teaching them to behave? Don't humans make mistakes occaisionally? They will make mistakes guaranteed at times.

I do not have the option of leaving the child home or anywhere else for that matter when I go to the store (NOT to the mall) to get necessities.

If you are giving 100% of your attention to your child then you CANNOT compare prices or even look for items. It is physically impossible. That is why I use the leash. It is not lazy parenting. It is responsible parenting because I cannot shop and watch my child 100% at the same time. I Have no choice but to take my child to the store with me to get the things I need to live (ie soap, food, diapers, etc.). Some children learn things faster than others as well. One child may need to be removed from the store twice and he'll learn to stay near his parent, Another child may have to be removed 30 times before he learns it. I as a parent and working mother do not have time or energy to leave the store 30 times before I can take my child without a harness. This is the best for my daughter and I. I don't get stressed, She stays safe, and we get the things we need.

I just don't understand those of you who think that it is possible to pay attention to your child 100% of the time. It is impossible to do that and even walk to the car with things in your arms.

hmmm i just had a childhood memory....

sometime in the early 70's Santa Monica Beach...

my parents fell asleep on the beach near one of the lifeguard stations, with me nearby digging in the sand. I saw a bunch of seagulls, and I ran over and watched them fly away and land nearby. I followed, they did it again. Over and over, I played this game with the birds.

I looked up and found the nearest lifeguard station. My parents weren't there. I went up to the lifeguard, let him know that I was lost (or maybe I was crying I don't know, but I wasn't much of a crying kid) and the lifeguard kept me in his hut for a few hours. Gave me some candy which I reluctantly took. I told him I wasn't allowed, and not to take candy from strangers.

When they awoke,they panicked! My parents searched high and low for me, thinking the worst that I had been pulled out to sea.

They found me in that lifeguard hut, eating candy.

Did that make them bad parents?

Yes, in my opinion.

I need to edit this after reading your post again.

No not bad parents but I think it was a bad choice they made. I would never fall asleep with my young child out in public. Yes this is a different day in age but at the beach it is very dangerous. I would not leave my child unsupervised. (and no I do not consider beach life guards supervision.)

Of course kids are going to have to learn how to behave properly and they may act up when you take them out (temper tantrums are a part of the process and no child is an angel). However, I still do not see the need of a restraint.

I agree with the earlier poster who prefered to hold hands with their child. If the child wants to run away correct the behaviour. If their "bad" behaviour persists... take them home. This may take 30 trips. It also may mean you have to get a babysitter...

Yes, it will be a great inconvenience but who said raising a child is easy.

As for giving attention to your child while you shop... it can be done. Involve you child in the shopping. Give them a list. Get them to complare prices with you... Let them be a participant rather than a passive (and rightly bored) observer. Keeping a child engaged is more than half the battle.

I sympathize with working parent... I am one too. I just see restraints as symptoms of a larger issue when it comes to child rearing in this day and age (not just lazy and bad parenting sometimes just stressed out parents who have too much on the go).

Question: are children in more, less or the same amount of danger from abduction than they were say 30 years ago? Why do we have this fear of our children being taken? Is based in reality?

Note: I've though about it and would say that a knotted skipping rope would be a good alternative. It isn't tied to the child and the child still has the choice to let go. The choice is the child's and it would allow you to go hands free without need of restraint.

It was rather irresponsible of them... But it doesn't make them bad parents.

The fact that a lifeguard looked after you is an interesting point.

I've always believed the adage that it takes a village to raise a child. It is something that is missing in this day and age where many people are afraid to discipline (verbally admonish) a child that is not their own without fear of "reprisal".

I have another memory to recall...

90's Atlantic city...

I'm down in the casino it's 3am. I'm playing craps and winning. Everyone else in the family is upstairs sleeping.

I hear a page about a young child and for the parents to come to security. I dismiss it.

10 minutes later, I hear the child's name, and I think hmmm sounds close to my cousin's let me at least check it out. I excuse myself from the table and go investigate.

I see my cousin with the security personnel, he's wailing. I cannot believe that he made his way downstairs. Apparently he left the hotel room to go to grandma and grandpa's room, something he did when he was a kid at home.

Door closed behind him. And well, like the lifeguard stations, they all look the same, and he had no idea where to go to next. Some cleaning people found him wandering the hallway crying....

His parents were sleeping too, he was snug in bed. Did that make them bad parents?

he wouldn't behave in the markets, so they never took him. he didn't behave in restaurants so they didn't take him. When he started behaving, was when he started being allowed to go anywhere.

They should have duct taped him to the bed...