"Uhh.. we're selling CLOTHES, right? RIGHT?!?"
 

Company in question: Abercrombie & Fitch
Website in question: http://www.abercrombie.com/

NAVIGATE TO QUESTIONABLE CONTENT!
As soon as you click to enter the site, you are confronted with a nude (or semi-nude) body. Click on A&F Quarterly and you encounter an image in which there are 3 human bodies and the total count of clothing articles is 1. Click on Lifestyle > Movies and you will find a distinct lack of product for sale. Hey, even watch their movie. I don't think you see much for sale in that thing. Now click on Lifestyle > Photos and the motive becomes even more clear. No clothes this time, just a prelude to a nice gangbang video. Browse through their photo archive for more evidence. Now check out their Screen Saver! Ok when do we get to the point where we're selling clothes? More Links... Contact Us, CNF Mail, ok you get the point.

Hey it's not like we in the adult industry have a particularly reputable product as a whole, but at least we don't dupe you about what we're selling*! I dont think I'm surprising many of you with this post, but I think it needs to get out there for discussion. Here are a few quotes I thought of while browsing this site:

"What... nobody on this site is wearing anything.. what am I buying again?"
"Buy, but dont *wear* our clothes."
"Two men for every girl who wears one of our tops... and then takes it off."
"There's something about these clothes... must be laced with pheromones or something because I am getting hard staring at this girl... who isn't wearing any. So odd."
"Does their retail store Musak include audio tracks from porno?"

Yeah, the forumla is obvious. Link your product with sex. The strategy is as naked as their models. Does anyone else feel cheated or something? I mean.. they aren't breaking any rules, and for a porn webmaster like myself to call them indecent would be hypocritical. Well, they DO sell to kids who are younger than 18 years old, I guess that's where a little outrage could come from.

Let's hear some thoughts.


* most of the time.

"You can't shop at this store"

they should just have a sign that tells you whether or not you are allowed to shop at A&F seeing as how they will not help you if they think you shouldn't be wearing their clothes.

i've personnaly never been in the store; it is too expensive and the same clothes as most other stores, 'cept they say A&F instead of another company.

should figure out how to link the TB for rookies to the A&F website... some might be fooled...

ok bad idea...

but funny

looks like they're sellin nude pics.

http://a1008.g.akamai.net/7/1008/521...s/art/afq2.jpg

WHAT THE FUCK?????? how are 3 almost nude people smiling supposed to sell clothing?

http://a1008.g.akamai.net/7/1008/521...art/photos.jpg

am i the only person noticing the 2 guys 1 girl theme?

and i looked thru the rest of the photo's and i didnt see a piece of clothing that they would advertise.

is a pervert the president of the company?

Hey, I dig the Abercrombie cut for jeans... no other brand I've tried has had anything that fits as well and makes me look good.

I don't dig anything else they sell though... but I have yet to find comparable jeans

Isn't abercrombie the makers of the pre-teen thong? Also, that chick kissing the guy has a "pre-teen" look to her. This is pretty disturbing stuff. This pretty much describes our society nowadays though...sex, sex, and more sex. And people wonder why there are 12 year olds getting pregnant. When they see nothing but sexual references at stores, on T.V., and in music, how are they NOT supposed to learn about it at a young age? I don't care what the record industries say, Britney Spears parading around wearing next to nothing DOES influence the way little girls dress/act.

They have a (very lame) way of selling to kids. http://www.abercrombiekids.com/kids/...ore/index.html

I work at Abercrombie and we get that alot. The storty behind it is that they are trying to sell sex. They openly admit it. It's a college store, and that's what attracts college kids. Oh, and to make it better (or worse depending on how you look at it), I walked into work last weekend and there are two models (pretty much naked) in the front of the store. They weren't really models, they work at the store. But yeah, we get complaints alot. So if you guys dont like it (and many do, I assure you) don't shop there. We will still pull in $50,000 every four hours...

Abercrombie doesn't make a thong for the kids store. Check the website to be sure. Sorry guys, I just feel like I have to defend them.

If you've never been in one, how do you know we don't help everyone? We do help everyone and no one at my story anyway, has the high school mentality that only certain people can shop there.

My mistake then, but I could've sworn I heard there was a store that recently made headlines for having a "pre-teen" thong. Lemme see if I can find a link somewhere...brb :D

Personally, I just avoid the mall.

Turns out I was right. :(

http://www.jsonline.com/news/gen/may02/43941.asp

That's kinda twisted... Especially the part where they call it cute and fun and sweet.

loyalty for the company you work for is very admirable.

NEVERTHELESS

i have a strong dislike for ANF. College is primarily about development knowledge in case anyone forgot. The sex, although an integral part of the college life, need not be so shamelessly flaunted to sell clothes by not showing clothes, by forgetting the clothes and just being so blatantly suggestive.

Perhaps the marketing sector of ANF is brain dead. The purpose of advertisers is to make products look appealing, if they want sex appeal, make sexy clothes, or they can advertise it in a sexy way. Even in pornography some of my favourite pictures are BEFORE anyone's clothes are gone. This is a matter of skill. There is no skill demonstrated in the marketing of ANF clothing. None.

I dig good advertising, this is not good advertising, and a company isn't respect worthy if while they're earning tons of money, they can't even put out proper marketing stratgies.

Thank you for the link, Tex. I had no idea our consumer driven country had fallen so far. And people wonder why there are pedophiles out there! Jesus, this trend with children dressing like sluts (and there is NO other word for a prebubesent girl wearing high heels, make up and skimpy outfits) just makes me ill!! Are these parents going to take responisiblity when they let thier kids go out in public like that and then something happens? Do they think that this is OK?!?

This is so fucking pathetic. If something doesn't change, and fast, where will our society be in 10 years? A&F will be selling girls kneepads...

To be fair, most of the links on their website are to a legitimate catalog. Yes, the sex is heavy. But this isn't a Toys R
Us website. It's a designer clothes company. They are in just as much of the business of selling a lifestyle as they are an article of clothing. People like to see sex, and be assured that their lifestyle is hip and sexual. This company is selling to its audience, which isn't really all that evil. Giving people what they want to advance your product is the American way.

That said, on a personal level I find it obnoxious. So I won't shop there (viva la Target!) But I can't get myself riled up enough about it to be offended.

All I am trying to say is that if you don't like the clothing or the atmosphere, then don't shop there. The reason they make clothing like this is because it sells. Today because of back to school we made over $200,000, so that just proves that people may be angry, but they will still buy the clothing.

They don't care about respect, its about money. All of society is about money. There is skill in the marketing because everyone knows who A&F are, either because they wear the clothing, or they don't agree with it. Doesn't matter which one... As long as it brings in cash.

Frankly, I don't care if AF wants to sell sex (and in turn its clothes) to college students. Most of them are adults, and get to make their own decisions. So originally, I was going to bitch at everyone for being a little "churchladyish". However, once I got to the "cute, fun and sweet" thongs for little girls I changed my mind. Kids today have enough crap thrown at them, that they do not need to be encouraged to be sexy/sexual at such a young age. Let's be honest, who out there can, with a strait face, defend a thong for little girls. Basically, I am fairly liberal but ... well, you all know what I 'm trying to say.

well, a whole lot of kids at my high school wore AF clothing (it was the cool thing to do), considering we didnt have an AF in our town.

Nah, no A&F for me. I'd rather not spend $60+ on a pair of jeans or a shirt that simply says "Ambercrombie & Fitch" on the front.

Too much damned money. Its not worth it. I dont feel like buying pre warn jeens that look like someone else has been in my 40 dollar pair of fucking jeens.

dammit.
how come they don´t sell this brand over here.

actually, i´ve never seen this label before... but from this, i take it that they don´t have much of a product line.

Stormberlin is right. The website and the catalog is the way it is because ANF's Marketing Dept. KNOWS that people (kids) like to see sex, and they know it sells. Also, they know that this not only attracts business, it stirs people up. That gets more people seeing your site/catalog and hearing your name.

Now, I also don't agree with this tactic. Therefore, when I have kids, they will NOT shop there, I won't shop there, and I won't allow my little girl to wear a thong until she doesn't live at my house anymore.

In the meantime, welcome to the world of today my friends. This is one more cog in the wheel of "social progress." I don't mean to get preachy, but this is the way it will continue to be. Morality is on the decline, and no one except the "right wing extremists" seem to care.

This may or may not be true, I don't know. I'm cynical and twisted, but I must be an optimist at my core 'cause I refuse to believe this.

If you were to say that all of society is about fucking, I'd probably have less of a problem with it. But then I don't see sex as a problem in itself. Sex is healthy, keeps us happy, and is not evil in itself.

I don't have a problem with A&F. I suggest that if y'all have a problem with what they're doing, that you reconsider your own motivation. Exactly what about their ads bothers you, and why? Did you decide this for yourself, or were you aimed at that conclusion by someone else? If so, by whom?

I don't think they're being particularly deceitful, Halx. They're perhaps going a bit beyond what you're used to. Consider how "shocking" South Park is these days versus what was acceptible 10 years ago.

I suspect the bit about the thongs for little kids isn't even all that bad. Consider that people get their infant's ears pierced and put little earrings in them. Would I do any of that to a child of mine? Not a chance, granted. But don't you aim your Puritanical attitude at society at large and say that it's society with the problem. Eh hem, certain people...

Question for those outside the USA: how do A&F's ads and catalogs compare with ones in your home country?

Feh. You're a Conservative. If it's not what you're used to, and it's not you doing it, it's EEEEEEVIL!!

Granted, most people are like that...

we're not selling clothes, we're selling a whole lifestyle.

blah, blah, blah, whatever....

I don't need a big corporation to enjoy porn. And get those damn kids out of here, right now.

Just a question here, haven't most of the people on this board been drawen to it by sex ( porn ) ?
You can prob. guess where I'm headed with that so I'll just drop it.
And as far as far as college being the place for development of knowledge perhaps, but it was also a great place to party.

I'm sorry, but they've got a lot of nerve charging what they do for their clothes if they think they're going after a college student market. Where I went to college, 85% of the students were on financial aid, and no one had $75 to spend on a pair of jeans...no one even had $75. I went to class in my pajamas with everyone else.

I simply won't shop there because their clothes don't fit. I realize it's unfashionable for women to have hips and breasts and, you know, look like women instead of prepubescent boys, but I can't help my genetics. I prefer to take my business someplace where I can actually wear what I buy. I know, I know, I'm so old-fashioned ;)

And get laid! :D

I guess I'm just a bit taken back by this marketing ploy 'cause Hal your right -- they are selling sex to minors. I brought this up to a friend of mine and he informed me that the A&F catalog has long been a favorite of the Gay community and is frequently used as a coffee table book. Just doesn't make me feel comfortable looking at the semi-nude bodies of minors.

Never bought clothes there and now never will.

I was the manager of my local Abercrombie for about a year. No, I'm not proud of it.

I quit shortly after the fiasco with the nudity started... this was three years ago. I wasn't going to be apart of a company that was like this...

Not to mention the thong underwear we sold for 12yr olds. Gross.

over priced rags that cost next to nothing to make... hell no would i spend my $$$ on that crap.

I'm so glad i don't own a piece of their clothing. If you wear their shit, you're a walking billboard, they sell almost NOTHING that doesn't have their name plastered on it somewhere. It's truly a disgrace.

My problem with all this argument is that they're not selling to college kids really. I just graduated from a relatively wealthy popluated Private college, the people who would have the money for abercrombie, and most of them didn't wear it. I knew lots and lots of people who wore it in highschool, but people were over it by college. I think their target market is the 14-18 crowd. Just look at the sizes, and styles they carry. Anyways, i just steer clear of the place, and that suits me just fine. If people want to pay too much, for pre-ripped clothing, and classless advertising, that's their perogative.

On a last note, i think that after clicking on that child thong link above, the racial thing is pretty disgusting as well. i just think the people who market/run that place are sleazy. what can you do, besides avoid the place?

I think that if America didn't have as many hangups about sex as we do, we wouldn't be having this discussion. If we were more liberal about our bodies, like Australia, Brazil, and even Great Britian, we probably wouldn't see ads like this because we wouldn't be as stimulated by it. I was recently in one of their stores and actually bought some stuff. All over the walls were huge murals of half nekked people without any signs of clothes. I am ok with it as I am an adult, but I am not ok with the fact they are trying to ring in such a young market sector....18 and younger....very disturbing stuff. Where do we draw the line? Genitilia piercings for 5 year olds?

sex sells...as i'm sure we've already figured out...look at almost any advertisment for any product, and i'm sure you'll find something "sexy"...and as far as their nudity goes...it's a little ludacris..i work at aeropostale...which is and has been a store that caters to late middleschool/highschool kids (having bright flashy clothes with the logo plastered all over it)...we ourselves just got in 3 different pairs of thongs...which are quite thongish, it was a little strange...funny how they havn't been selling at all...anyways the point is, we as a store, called h/q to find out what was up..and apparently they're changing their look to a more "college style a/f or a/e store" (less logo's more trendy) which i'm totally cool with, they're just showing older kids now having more "fun" in their advertisments, (for when they do advertise)....
being an advertising major, it's interesting to see how far companies will go, just to get press/attention...
take a look at some other examples:

Music-Eminem/marilyn manson/NWA
VideoGames- BMX XXX/Grand Theft Auto Series
Movies- Think about it, what havn't they had to edit just to make it R and Not NC-17 or MA or whatev...

and i agree with water boy..about the hangups part...

I have never even stepped foot into an Abercrombie store. Never will either so whatever their ads are trying to do don't work on me. Although, it is obvious what they're trying to do. *shrug* They're doing whatever they can to sell their product, and I don't have a problem with it. Sex sells. It's old news.

I can certainly say that i have absolutely no respect what so ever for Abercrombie & Fitch and i'm not going to waist any of my money on anything they sell.

First of all their clothing sucks!

Secondly it's too expensive for such regular looking clothing. The only thing unique about the T- shirts is that they say Abercrombie & Fitch on the front of them.

This is probably more suited for the Politics board, but I'll take the bait. Since when is morality the sole property of the political Right? That's an extremely arrogant position to take. "Right" and "Left" are political concepts. The problem with the "Right" is that they want to legislate their concept of morality, which is based on very narrow traditional Christian ideals. It amuses me that the political Right advocates are always spouting off about how we need less government and regulation ... except when it comes to forcing Christian ideals on everyone -- in a country founded on the concept of church separation.

No, you are wrong. People that don't fit into your narrow definition of what the "Right" is do care, about many things. To suggest that one must have Conservative politics to be morally sound is exactly the kind of crap that is dividing this country further every day.

I'm surprised at the rampant "holier than thou" attitude being displayed in this thread.

Yes, the kid's thong was a mistake. Whoever thought of that should be fired.

I don't live in the US and usually buy my wife a few of their funky little t-shirts each time I visit. She likes them. They're cute.

If you don't like the clothes, don't shop there.

But I think it's the height of hypocrisy when people who are members of an adult, porn related, website start complaining about nudity. Posters who have avatars of childrens toys engaged in sex. Posters that have avatars of Class A related drugs. Posters who visit and comment regularly on the Titty Board.

Sheesh...

What most of you guys need is not different clothes, but a mirror.

Mr Mephisto

Okay, here's the thing Mr Mephisto.

It's one thing when you if you're showing pictures of naked people on your site to sell porn. However it's a completely different thing when you're showing pictures of naked people to sell clothes. I mean that is what they are selling there right?

I didn't see one person at the abercrombie and fitch site wearing abercrombie and fitch clothing, all i saw them wear was well ... for the most part nothing. And whenever they do bullshit like that, it makes lose any respect for them.

But hey, sex sells ... i still don't think its right (when you're selling clothes, that is)

Same here and I absolutely agree. A lot of companies use sex appeal to sell their products. The difference is in the degree of sexuality portrayed. Abercrombie uses more than others. I do agree with previous posters that the kiddie thong idea was idiotic, but other than that, I don't see a problem.

Ah, another Puritan. Look, if they wanted to sell cars, they could use naked people. I mean, what are cars for but for fucking? What are clothes for but to TAKE THEM OFF? There is NO area of human interest that doesn't involve naked people. In the USA at least, they tend to be encumbered by clothes, but that's our problem.

Not only does sex sell, it's central to what keeps us alive on this planet. If you don't like it, that's too bad, but that's reality. IIRC, they've even used sex to sell coffins.

I really wish we'd gotten the criminals and Australia had gotten the Puritans... :icare:

Thats fine with me if they want to use sex to sell their shit but at least wear an artical of clothing that you are advertising. If they can find a creative way to use sex to sell their stuff it's fine but when all you see at their site is a bunch of naked people, thats just stupid.

Jesus!

Why? Granted, it'd seem more likely to help, but if they want to try to sell clothes w/o actually showing any product, who are we to tell them it doesn't work? They've gotten more awareness here doing what they're doing rather than just being Yet Another Mall Store.

They can do what they want, i'm just letting my opinion be heard. And my opinion on the whole thing is that what their doing is stupid and i have no respect for them.

This is funny. I just took my lil sister "back to school" shopping. As we walked around the mall looking in all the stores, we ventured into A&F. There are two doorways into the store. My sister turns to me and says, "Oh, this is the one with the pantless girls and the topless guys." I'm puzzled by this but continue to look about the store, as I have found that their pants do fit me rather nicely and sometimes, they have cute shirts that arent's splattered with "A&F" logos, too noticably. After a while, I notice that this store is not like the others I had ventured into that day. There was not a single picture in the entire store of anyone wearing clothes. I start taking pot shots at the nudie pics and joke with my sister that I may have to use the ladies room after this store. I notice another difference, no one has come up to me to offer me "great deals!!" I look in a mirror as I walk by. My hair is a mess from pulling shirts on and off all day, I don't have a spot of make-up on, I'm wearing jeans that are 4 years old and have patches on them, and those jeans are being held up by a studded belt that has been duct taped together. The irony, I have been "scouted" on three seperate occasions to model by two modeling agencies and one scouting network. Yet, these losers, who have enough makeup on their face to paint a mural with and are getting paid about $10 less an hour, won't talk to me. I got very very upset. Grabbed my sister, said several smart ass comments as I walked toward the front of the store... and I as I exited the store I saw a girl standing there in just a man's colared shirt and panites, and boy standing there in just pants. I said something absolutely horrible to them, which embarrased my sister terribly and left feeling quite satisfied.. until I looked over.. and saw a young mother, draggin her 2 small children into the store... Those kids were about to see stuff that barely squeeks by as PG13, at the ages of (what looked like) 2 and 4. Our society is fucked up.



and all this is comming from a hard core libral.

Yes, because prudes like most of us are considered normal.

Quote:

and all this is comming from a hard core libral.

If that's as liberal as you can get, you've got something to learn.

This thread just keeps getting better. I told everyone at work about it and they got a kick out of it.

Do ya put a little spin on it? Like... we're so prude and we think sex is bad? No? Ok, just checking.

Ok I dont think there is anyone here who doesn't enjoy sex, pictures of sexy people, or innuendo. We just don't appreciate it when some rich company dangles it in front of us and says, "Buy our stuff. It will make you sexy." It's an insult to our intelligence. It has nothing to do with being prude, conservative, or hateful. Some of us can see past all the social programming and see a greedy company with no shame.

They print racist graphics on their shirts, they sell clothes to 12 year olds that would make a stripper blush, and they charge you about 800% of what it takes to turn the cheap fabric into clothes on the shelf. Yes, of course it makes money, that's the object of a business, it wouldn't be such an outrage if they were struggling to keep stores open.

Mass Media Mind Control as ARTelevision puts it. We're against being controlled. We see the bait being dangled in front of us and we refuse to take it. Fuck you, Abercrombie & Fitch. You can rake in all the dough you like from those who are blind to your disrespect for your own customer base, but you'll never get a penny from me.

Yeah, I guess that's what I wanted to say in the first place.

While I'm ranting about evil corporations, I wanna point out that Honda is the exact opposite. They make quality products, have quality service, and you get real substance for your money. They really respect their customers. Go Honda. Fight the power.

ok.. so maybe it should just say liberal.. I thought I was hard core but apparently, I'm just hard core in comparrison to the great folks of Kansas! haha

I wonder how many of you "anti A&F" posters buy Nescaffe products? Or Nike? Perhaps some of you like Nestle? Do you put petrol in your car? Where do you think that's coming from (and don't fool yourself into thinking it's Texas)?

Don't pontificate about "big evil corporations" unless you want to turn your back on the entire Western Capitalist socio-economic model. And somehow I suspect most of you won't. You're all living the happy American dream.

The amount of money you spend on paper to wipe your asses with each day, would support families in Africa or India for weeks.

This pseudo "I'm so cool and I hate big nasty companies" nonesense makes me sick.

If you believe it, then what are you doing on the internet and not at some anti-globalization, big-business rally?

And, to be honest, you're annoyed because a company dangles "sex" in your face to sell products? The irony associated with someone working for a porn site saying that, a commercial porn site, is such as not to warrant comment.

I guess I'm coming across all nasty and antagonistic, but I don't mean to be. Finally, just because I don't agree with everything you say Hal, doesn't mean I don't like this site.

At least it engenders a healthy debate!

:)

Mr Mephisto

Yes, they do. It is being disputed in court. I will find the link. They even had a child model the thong for an ad which is what sparked the court case.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/gen/may02/43941.asp

Oh well posted too soon. Should have finished reading the thread.

forgive me...

Seeing as I happen to live in Houston, near the busiest port in the eastern half of the United States, and the largest urban area dealing with petroleum refinement, I have to laugh at this. Very, very loudly. Neither supporting nor denying your claim, just chuckling, mind you.

Maybe I am wierd, or too liberal, but I don't see a problem with it. The only picture that I think is overtly sexual is the girl kissing the guy. I do agree, that using blatant sex to sell something (and not showing the product) isn't a very straightforward technique, and even though I wouldn't ever shop there, it doesn't bother me. These aren't obviously underage people. They look young, but I doubt they are under 18.

Actually, I can probably say with confidence the people in the pictures are at least 18. A&F often times uses their employees to be their models, and you can't work at A&F unless you are 18 (at least, thats how it is in every store around here.)

I'm not some mom-and-pop-store-loving-hippie. I eat count chocola for breakfast, wear adidas shoes, frequently adorn myself in clothes from AE, Hollister (which is owned by A&F), and when I have the money and want to look nice: Express. The difference between all those stores and A&F, is that their marketing strategy isn't "rated PG-13 yet still available to be view by small children that look into the store."

Hell. That site is hysterical. Thanks for the hot pr0n link.

College students go to class in their pajamas because they are too lazy to get up and get dressed after a night of partying. It has nothing to do with what they can afford.

I really do not understand the uproar here. Who cares how they market? Look at Bud light withthe two girls oil wrestling (or whatever it was). Look at every ad for perfume or colgne in a magazine. What is the big deal? This, of all places, is the last place I ever thought I would see sucha big deal made about A&F. If you don't like it, dont buy it. So what? Who cares?

/rant on

The biggest problem in society is parents blaming companies, such as A&F, on what it is doing to kids and what our "society" is turning in to. People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions and how they raise their kids rather than blaming it on outside forces that they want to make scapegoats.

/rant off

If you dont like them, dont buy them. And for all of those bitching about their logo being everywhere, I hope you aren't buying Nike shoes or Levi jeans, or anything else that has a label on them. Otherwise you would be a hypocrite.

Fair enough, i won't.

Although, i would like to point out that A & F can't even find a creative way to use sex to sell their clothing. I mean all they do is show pictures of naked people on their site. And I know, I know, it seems to be working so they might as well keep on doing it but i'll just repeat myself again and say i don't respect the way they advertise.

And i have to agree with halx when he says it's an insult to our intelligence because not all of us fall for that kind of advertising that seems to say, 'Buy our stuff. It will make you sexy.'

amen.

Exactly, parents need to be aware that this shit is out there and not take thier kids into these stores.. but thats kinda hard when the A&F is located right next to Gymboree.. what are parents suppose to do.. cover their kids eyes while they walk past the nudie pics?

I know I would be pretty annoyed to pull up the site and have those images pop up - I have two young boys at home, and I'm careful about what they are exposed to - they don't even watch the evening news! So, here I am shopping for clothes, and I click on this RETAIL site, and see the titless woder making out with two guys. No thank you. Always thought ANF was pretentious, now I will definitely never shop there.

They are just naked people, sheesh.

They will go the way of Jordache, Miller's Outpost and Esprit in good time, despite their (by American standards) outlandish marketing. The date-raping, binge-alcoholic frat punks and vain sorority skanks who prayed to the A&F gods at the university I went to will move onto something else, and something equally calculated and test-marketed will take its place. As the world turns.

I wonder how its patrons feel about being an open book to that corporation--completely figured out, malleable, and trained. Here's a doggy biscuit, bitch, now buy that pair of low-rise jeans and tell all your friends where you got them. Or simply let the label speak for itself.

Parents are a difficult variable to change. The media in which children are being raised on is more easily changed than suburbia, the ghetto, or those who have been championed by the democrats. Placing blame on them whilst pointing the finger and your attention is iresponsable if you intend to have any affect on *any*thing as any results by comparison to the other problems are negligable at best as the other problems will grow in proportion because to most they will still be considered a good thing.

Thus concludes a half assed rant (using my full ass yields a multiple paragraph essay quality monstrosity) whose basic point is 'society is broken'.