bad vs. good looks are important?
 

Why is it ladies, that you tend to like the good looking guys that treat you like crap but will always overlook the no so good looking guys that will treat you like goddeses? Why does looks have to be so important now a days? Is there any females still out there that will take the time to look inside someone rather then just there outside?

I consider myself a pretty decent-looking guy, and nice to boot, but most women just don't seem to dig that. Lately I am more and more convinced that society is encouraging women to choose the "jerk" over the "nice guy," and that has nothing to do with looks.

When looking for an explanation, I keep running into things like "women want a man, not a doormat," which seems to imply that by treating women well is BAD, and men must carefully follow a quota of niceness in order to avoid sudden rejection! I find this extremely ludicrous, and refuse to accept it. Maybe thats why I am still single, eh? :D

I am sure there are some women out there, especially in non-Western cultures, who have not been shaped and molded by popular society's rules. Keep searching, man. I know I will.

Find some filipina chicks, treat them well, and they'll love ya forever.

I refuse to be a jerk.
I enjoy being nice.
I also refuse to repress my emotions for the "good-feelings" of others.
I'm a passionate man, who expresses himself...both good & bad.

Women who won't recognize this...
well, then something is seriously messed up about them
and I don't want to be involved with them.

I want someone who appreciates me & themselves.
Wouldn't that be nice?

Because first impression goes a long way.

I would have to agree with ^dude because first impressions are very important.

I think the point is that alot of them base everything on the first impression these days.

Thankyou kind sir. http://forums.xengamers.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

You are ever so kind ^dude for noticing that i am a Kind sir. Thankyou i look forward to reading more of your post replys!

I'd say that most guys to that too.. It's all about the looks!

You said it right, man...Filipina girls are the best...I love the HELL out of mine...


Also, here is a note...I have learned that girls go for the jerks when they are not ready to marry or looking to settle down. Girls tend to look for the drama and excitement that a "jerk" can supply. They also like to think that they can change the guy into the kind of person they like. But in the end they will always marry the nice guy after all is said and done.

This is of course a generalization...

and all generalizations are false

Me, being a girl, I will tell you why the girls go for jerks. Most of us don't know what we're worth and we think that is the best we can do. If that is our first serious relationship, that's all we know so that is what we stick to. That's about it.

eh... what's that suppose to mean???

personally, i don't like being treated like a godess. that's not to say i'd rather be treated like shit. :P i just don't like being put on a pedestal as if they're looking up to me.

"i could level off the ground that we stand on
but with you down on bended knee
always looking up at me
that feeling of standing up together is gone"
-ani difranco

and stormberlin got it right. we go for jerks because the quality of the relationship reflects the amount of self-worth we have or don't have..

I'm so glad to hear stormberlin and anti fishstick admit what I've thought for years. But that still doesn't answer replet2's question - why stay with the hunky jerks instead of taking a chance with the no-so-hunky charmers?

Quoted becuase of truth

Sounds like the best thing to do is pretend to be a jerk, then do nice things for them but pretend you didn't mean to or it was an accident.

Actually, now that I think of it, I know a few women who'd go for that bigtime.

maybe generally girls just like hot guys and ignore the personality until it's too late and that most hot guys are jerks. I'm sure girls go for hot nice guys too, but it must be the hotness that attracts them 1st yes?

it's not like guys go for ugly nice girls either, they'll go for hot bitches, hot nice girls, bu tnot ugly bitches or ugly nice girls. So it's not a matter of being a jerk and a nice guy at all so much as looks give the first impression and both girls/guys want the best looking mate.

That's pretty cynical though.

On another note, there are obviously blatant jerks, nevertheless thouse that catergorize people in only 2 ways, nice and jerks, and find themselves to be the nice ones, may be a little naive. Which i [not all girls] certainly do not dig.

well it does answer it. that's the thing.. when you're caught in a relationship with a hot jerk and you have NO self-worth, you're going to cling on to it anyway. it's all you have, yes? females base themselves on external things too much...the relationships around them. i know it is my weakness. i also start centering my life around the other person instead of myself. you begin to lose yourself, etc. it's hard to get out of that...

There are girls out there fellas that do go for the nice guy. I've dated quite a few and married one. I'm no Brad Pitt either. Hang in there.

I have been in three serious relationships in my life and all of them ended up in heartbreak. I have been cheated on because i am to nice, I have been dumped for being to passive towards them, and I have been dumped for wanting to have kids. All I can see hear is that either I have fallen for the wrong ones or there is something seriously wrong with wemen now a days. I am in clined to believe the later.

IMO this dating thing is nothing but a huge game. If you know the cheat codes then you can beat it, and if you're just naturally talented then you can beat it too.

I try not to take 'relationships' with significant others too seriously since I have yet to come across a 'sure-deal' woman. I'm the kind of guy that likes committment and I'm pretty sure I wont find that type of girl anytime soon, and so far the S.O. thing will stay in 'game-mode' until I do stumble across that diamond hidden beneath all these shit riddled stones.

That said, here's how I play the game.

Rule number one: FUCK GIRLS, I don't need them.

"That's so harsh!" Yeah but that's life honey. People get fucked like the guy who posted above me, and so to keep from getting fucked you have to put some invisible walls up. No matter how nice I treat a girl, in the back of my mind I'm always saying "FUCK YOU BITCH" until she shows me that she's a real woman who is looking for something <i>more</i>.

After I have the right mindset I can go about learning 'tricks' and things. Fastseduction.com has a plethora of 'tricks' if I choose that route. They work too; I've tried 'em. The one main trick I know is use alot of kino (touch her) and captivate her with conversation. After the "hello's" and "what's your name's" it's all about touching and convo's. You can incorporate all that other nonsense as you see fit.

I think looks have very little to do with the equation. They do help, but they only (most of the time) get you in the front door. Looks wont get you any beans; that's where the 'tricks' and 'skills' come in.

For all of you fellers who refuse to 'change' even a little bit to get yourself some more womenz, well that's up to you. I just hope you do find 'that girl' eventually.

So, back to the original question..

I don't think they are <i>that</i> important. As long as your well dressed, smell good, and you're groomed, I don't think you have to be a supermodel to get the girl. There's ALWAYS going to be someone better looking anyways so why worry about that. Just make sure you're well kept, and that takes care of the physical part (pretty much).

Personally though, I have the body of an egyptian god*, so if I chose to go around dressing like a hot-boy then I'd probably get in more front doors, but if I couldn't back up my looks with some game (yes, pun there too - see, cheat codes a.k.a. tricks) then I wont be able to seal the deal unless they're drunk and are only looking for a good thumpin ;)

Also, there are exceptions to all this stuff. Alot of guys are just at the right place at the right time, or have 'middle-men/women' to hook them up with people.




*i kid... for the most part

I have never dated a guy based on looks. And I mean NEVER. And I will tell you this: the "not-so-hot" looking guys can be bastards and jackasses just as well as the "hotties" can. It's not just becaue they have looks that makes them that way.

A nice guy is a nice guy. And the reason most women don't fall for nice guys is because most women have self-esteem issues that keep them from believing they deserve a nice guy. (I said MOST, not ALL). From years of watching how women are treated as the butt of jokes, degraded and kept down in their jobs, what else would you expect us to do with our relationships?

But the nice guys can win, regardless of looks, if they know how to play the game (like someone else above me had said). It is a game, and the trick is to know how to win... just ask redravin40... he won :)

It truely is about the game and I myself don't know the rules:hmm: Two friends of mine are on an internet dating site and get contacts all the time, I go on, get the initial contact and it fizzles out to nothing. What is my problem? I am a horrible conversationist, I cannot think of anything to say or will think of things but don't come out to say what is on my mind.

I think you have to have the confidence to be yourself and not fear rejection (something I am slowly learning myself). So it is not so much as the women being attracted to the asshole personality, but the confidence that they exude by being the ass.

one of my friends put it like this: assholes get the girls, but nice guys last with the girls. It stuck with me.

Re: bad vs. good looks are important?
 

Would you go out with a 5'2, 200 lb hirsute girl because she had a nice personality?

If the answer isn't yes, you might want to consider women are pretty much the same as men.

Oh, and "good looking" is subjective. The people I know who go for the skinny guy type wouldn't look twice at me; ones who like it big and strong, do. There are people who are interested in pretty much any look.

I'd point out, of course, that there's a good proportion of the men proclaiming, "I'm a nice guy, why don't women like me" are anything but nice. Just because someone has a particular self-image doesn't mean squat.

I'd also concur that many women have trouble with picking worthwhile men (for a plethora of reasons); most of the straight gals I know seem to take until their late twenties before they learn the difference between "confident nice guy" and "arrogant arsehole."

See, I really wonder about this. Because if the guy is like me, then girls are telling him hes nice. Girls tell me this all the time. I know one girl that thinks Im the sweetest guy in the world. I never use this argument though because these "nice guys" generally arent. Im just super shy:D

I believe one of the problems is, people think that dateing and finding "The One" is a game. I dont believe this is so. It is a mission not a game. We as the human race are born with the drive to find someone, we dont do it because we see someone else doing it and haveing fun. It is a drive in all humans.

I had absolutely no clue about dating. I would pick women based on looks or a generally slutty attitude. If a woman showed me even a little bit of attention, I would fall hard and fast (unless she was completely butt ugly). This had to do with self-esteem as much as anything. When I was finishing my first Master's degree about 14 years ago, I was in classes that had no women. I was stuck in a lab till all hours of the night and didn't have the energy to go to bars anymore since most of my good friends had graduated and moved away. I ended up using a dating service for a little while. I met one very nice girl (strict Southern Baptist) and another girl who wasn't as nice. I ended up with the not so nice girl who had bi-polar syndrome and was a different person every single time. We dated roughly 3 months till I finally said to hell with it. On a whim, I put an ad into the local singles newspaper. I got 2 responses from two friends who didn't know they had each responded to the same ad. One turned out to be the woman of my dreams (didn't figure this out till the second date). She is nice, attractive, and "gets" me. I don't think you could ask for anything more. She was the sterotypical nice girl who I wouldn't have given a look if I had met her out somewhere because she was so shy. Guys are just as guilty of this as girls. I think age and experience tend to take care of it.

One suggestion I can make is to meet women at non-standard places. Bars are the absolute worst unless you are just looking for a one-night stand, and you aren't likely to meet the perfectly nice girl who doesn't want to go to those places. College classes at the local community college and out shopping are a couple of great places to meet women.

Okay, for all the whiners out there read this: You keep saying girls don't like a nice guy. Bullshit. What you are doing is not 'being a nice guy'. By putting a woman on a pedestal, by doing everything for her, by making such a production of everything, you are, in fact, belittling her. Relationships are a two way street. Giving is good. Loving her is good. But if you smother her with all of this, you are not allowing her to do her half of the work. The relationship has become lopsided, and she will leave you out of desperation.

Do yourself a favor. Do her a favor. Treat her like a person. An equal. Share everything. I'm not talking about playing games. You just need to relax and let things happen.

There’s also another answer to this.... Stay in your league. You need to follow your own advice. Don't go for the 'hot, empty headed' chick. Try asking out the nice, plain girl that is a lot more like you. Being obsessed by looks, on either side is not going to get you anywhere. Physical attraction is important, but it only lasts so long.

Okay, lecture is over.

Wile E has it right...

I have lots of friends who are nice guys, which is code for: door mats.

My girlfriend and I have been together a hell of a long time, and although I treat her nicely, she does not walk all over me. Nor do I walk on her. Like Wile E said, it's a two way street, treat her the same way you want to be treated..


oh and if you want to be waited on hand and foot, either move back with mom (not that mine ever waited on us) or hire a maid... don't look for a S.O.

Hijacked from Sinfest:

http://www.sinfest.net/comics/sf20030815.gif
http://www.sinfest.net/comics/sf20030816.gif

Women are so fucking screwed up in their pretty little heads that I don't even want to get started on it. All I'm going to say is that the next woman I date is going to ask me out. That's the only way I know she'll be worthy.

:lol:

If only more people would voluntarily stay out of the gene pool…

Well, it's different when other people tell you you're nice; I've heard too many people announce, "I'm a nice guy" and proceed to demonstrate otherwise.

filipina

We are just shitty little products of our mom and our cultures upbringing, they taught us to be nice and give gifts and be booooooring to women.

I have a friend, he is super good-looking, Italian parents and he looks and acts like one of those slick guys, real :suave:. Anyway, he's always surrounded by hot women, and you know how? Not by being hot, not by worshiping the ground they walk on, by treating them like H U M A N beings and making them laugh. That's all any of us really want isn't it?
Bastard also has a steady girlfriend that isn't even half as good looking as he could get. I've seen models go gaga over him but that doesn't matter to him. Because, like he confided in me, for all the fun models can be, in the end looks are just another personality trait, it's the entire personality that you have to love.

Sometimes I just wanna kill him for being a that much better human being than I am. lol

2 Words..... Ladder Theory

Edit: Thanks to Bones for his referance to this marvalous site....

right on. i couldn't agree more..