Hey, look at this hot chic!!
 

It just occured to me how hypocritical some people here are.

This thread http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=15868 and others like it state that beauty is only skin deep.

Why then is it that anytime a attractive woman posts her picture on this board that the men go crazy over it. In the thread that asks "who do you have a jr.high/elementary school crush on" the women that are named most frequently are the ones who have posted pics of themselves AND are indeed very attractive.

Why didn't the men name other women on the board who they have never seen but have proved themselves to be attractive on the INSIDE??

Is it because we like to pretend that looks don't matter, but in fact they are really very importent??

Or do we just like to come across as not being shallow people??

Looks always matter. Anyone who says otherwise is just faking it. It has even been statistically shown that attractive people are treated better by the criminal system. Personality and such matters if you are going to have a successful relationship long-term like marriage, but it is physical beauty that makes people take the leap of getting to know someone. Women are the same as men in this area. Nobody wants to seem shallow, but we all are.

I'm very shallow.

I never said anything that would make anyone think otherwise.

oi... I had a lengthy post started to try and analyse this, but it turns out I was just masking the truth from myself.

It's quite sobering.

good looking things are pleasant to the eye, from boats to cars, women to girls. Something that is attractive is pleasurable to the beholder.

We're built that way for survival of the species, but it's our mental capacities that bring us forward to overcome it. While Shallow Hal made mockery and juxtaposition, it did deal with something that is very much on the top of people's minds. While it's not okay or PC to make fun of a black, hispanic, indian, asian, person; it's okay to poke fun of fat people. That's a good hypocritical wedge right there.

as a passing thought, a beautiful woman will always be more attractive to me than not. The big deal about the crush thread is that most of the people on that thread have never met or talked to their crushes, let alone any other women on the board. It's just a matter of exposure.

well, i havent posted in the jr high crush thread. (although i've read some posts made there).

not to defend the guys, but the thread is on jr high crushes and you dont really go much past looks in jr high.

With pictures it is much easier to associate a person behind the username rather than not. Also, it isn't as if looks don't matter at all. Sure they shouldn't be more important than personality, but that doesn't mean they can't still be a factor or as important. Now, assuming personality counts for 50% and looks 50%, if you take having a picture to support looks and posting to show personality versus just posting with a better personality, one has a range of up to 100% while the other only has 50% because not everything is being revealed. I haven't seen the the mentioned thread, but this just seems like a logical explaination.

I'm a shallow prick and need a hot chic. I've never stated anything other than that. Actually, I need a hot chic who has a personality that doesn't drive me insane after 2 weeks, and it doesn't seem as though that person is out there. I'm way too picky. I'll never see what a chic might look like on the inside if I can't get past her ugly face. Although, if there was a smokin hot chic that was perfect in every aspect, but she smoked weed there's no way in hell I'd even give her the time of day. Any drugs or a christian and I'm not interested. Smoke cigs? Nice knowin ya. The list of deal breakers is too long. I'm not gonna bore you guys with any other crap.

BTW, it's impossible for me to have a crush on a chic that I've never met. I thought that TFP crush thread was lame. That's why I didn't participate in it.

I think Hal is right, for me at least, i had just joined and didnt really know anyone yet, and when it comes to jokingly saying we have a crush on someone, the people that i thought first where the ones that i could picture, it really wasnt anything more than that for me i dont think.

Looks are important in the beginning but personality is what is important long term. It doesn’t matter how physically beautiful someone is, if you cant stand their personality you wont continue to hang out with them. Likewise, have you ever met someone you didn’t find attractive but after you got to know them they started to look better and better, almost as if they were physically more beautiful but you know there appearance hasn’t changed?

I think the reason we seem to put so much value on physical beauty is because that is what is spoken about so much. And, I think the reason that it is spoken about more than the beauty inside is because there is a more universal idea of what is physically beautiful while peoples ideas of what is beautiful on the inside vary more widely.

Re: Hey, look at this hot chic!!
 

I think it is both...and I don't think it is a bad thing. Everyone is different. If you are person that can look beyond a person's exterior, then more power to you! I am envious of you. For me however, if I am going to be in a relationship with someone, then I need to be with someone that is physically attractive to me.

Hypocritical? Yes. In all honesty though lets face it overall...most guys would like a supermodel but we all know taht won't happen. Just because we *guys* look at "hot chicks" and oogle doesn't mean we can't like a good personality though.

My question for you Nikki is would you totally trust someone you just know as far as online persona...100 percent? I mean honestly even if these "crushes" are legit I myself could never "know a person" without actually meeting them. I agree with Sixtate that though I did not know the existence of a crush thread how could one even really truely know someone if contcat was only online?

This is not about trust or having relationships with people online.

This is about how we each perceive physical beauty and how importent it is to each of us.

For others: looks go beyond thought
For me: looks only go so far

I might be attracted to a person, but if they are a pain, forget about it.
I don't care if you're the hottest thing around, if you're a bitch, I won't care about you,
but I find I'm the exception more than the rule.

Personallity is foremost in my mind.
I've dated older women (later 40's/early 50's)
I've dated heavier women
I've dated wallflowers
I've dated handicapped ladies.
Even started liking women on the net before I even saw them.

Looks are fleeting, mind is long-term.

What matters to me is the good time I have with them,
and the attention they pay me.

Which is not to say I haven't been with "good-looking" ladies.
Sure, even beauty queen & models, but if it doesn't "click", it doesn't work for me.
The "click" is it for me, and that translates into mind & desire for me.

Life's too short to spend time with someone who you don't enjoy being with.

Well lets face it, 90% of the people you meet are because they originally looked good from afar.

I dont call that being shallow, its only human. Looks are important, and to those who beg to differ, usually have thier own not so normal reason. (I wont go into this one since it'll only make enemies) But after the initial looks, ofcourse personallitly matters; thats the driving force that keeps you the mate or friend with that person.

Would you keep a awesome looking ferrarri that as a bad motor? Or would you keep the pretty good looking porsche with a good motor? And you know you'd lose the ugly car for a better looking one that runs just as good, if given the chance.

Looks are passing, personality is forever. In the end looks will fade away, age sets in and all that will be left is your personality so you best have a good one ;)

I think people who continuously play themselves off to be attractive only to get attention are wasting effort. Everyone has their own unique attractiveness, beauty and charm, inside and out. I find several people on this board attractive through their words and I've never seen their pictures before.

I can honestly say I'd rather get to know someone on the inside first and to hell with what they look like on the outside. True beauty comes from within and shines on through to the outside. :)

From a male perspective, "personality" is vital for a long term relationship. "Physical attraction" is vital to start the relationship.

In a nutshell, men are unlikely to try & find out how good the personality is of an "unattractive" (to them) woman.

Fortunately, tastes vary widely.

what set you off this time Nikki?
It's not like you can change the general behaivor of people by berating them. I tried this same tactic when i started posting "plumpers" back in the previous verion of the boards.. I found it's better to just acknoledge that some persons have certain views and let it slide. It makes perfect sense that more people have crushes on people they have seen pictures of versus the ones they havent. Surely even you are not above this kind of base behaivor.

Being male, I perceive things a bit differently from the way a woman will.

I'll tell you straight out: if I've got a problem with how you look, if your looks make me ill, we'll never get beyond "Hi". If I meet you on-line first, then meet you in person, looks matter somewhat less, but they're still going to matter until I'm used to having you around.

That's real, whether you or I like it or not. I speak from experience.

I've also been told by multiple women that it takes a while to get to know me, like up to around a year. Most women don't give me anything like that kind of time, and once they do, I'm firmly in the "friend" zone.

I'm pretty much the same. I never really answered the crush thread, but I would've chosen the same three who picked me. I've never seen any one of them, but just the interaction with them here has piqued my interest.

No offence
 

But do less attractive women have a monopoly on personality? They seem to assume they do...
I haven't been around long enough to say anything about the members, but I can certainly tell you I would never take an interest in someone based on their online persona.

[EDIT]
I would however take an interest in getting in bed with them based on a pic. Online personas lie and don't tell you what that person is really about, pics (assuming they are real) don't.
[/EDIT]

Looks will always overule personality, for me, it's a fact. But Nikki, I feel attracted to you now more than I ever did before. Maybe it's your ranting or the way you don't back down. And, don't think this has anything to do with you avatar. :D

edit: Looking back now, your sig may have played a small part. :lol:
Now, that's attitude & personality I can see from you.

Looks are important to men, initially. That is the way that men are. We are more pleased and attracted to asthetics.

Women are more attracted to confidence.

I find that oftentimes my short, meaningless relationships started because I thought the girls was "hot"

The relationships that I have had that have lasted are the ones that I started after really getting to know someone that I was not initially attracted to, but later became more attracted to them because of there personality.

nikki... the reason so many people "act out" (putting it nicely) and go gaga over random chicks they've never met or seen save for a picture or three on some online bulletin board is twofold:

first, they're separated from reality online. they have an opputunity to say/do/be anything they want to without the stare of cold, hard reality beating them back into their feeble little shells. they have a false bravado that enables them to go out on a limb and say these things, act on their most base desires because there's no real accountability for their actions.

second, most of the people who lose their heads over random women on a bulletin board are immature, as far as their sexual development is concerned. they probably don't really know what they want in life. most likely they've never had meaningful relationships. it's like being back in junior high, it's all talk with no real experience to back it up.

basically, these people are just as you accuse them of being. shallow, ill mannered ilk. the problem is that they're everywhere, it's very hard to avoid them. the most you can possibly do is ignore them, recognise and discount their statements as quickly as possible , and move on. we can filter out alot of people, but there's no getting past these.

If I have a prejudice about this, it's that I am more negatively disposed toward so-called "attractive" people than I am toward others at the level of initial impression. It takes some time to accept a so-called attractive person into my personal psyche.

My prejudice has to do with the experiences that I have had in my life - so-called "attractive" people have been more shallow, on average, than more normal appearing individuals.

As any prejudice, it's pretty much for the birds.

Anyway, I feel way out of the loop on this because it has always been obvious to me that the forces at work in societal esthetics regarding what constitutes attractiveness in humans is way out of whack...

even infant kids can tell the difference between attractive and not attractive... it's useless to hold adult humans to standards that defy our animal instincts.

Since when does something need to set me off for me to start a discussion?? Isn't every thread inspired by a feeling or an idea?
I didn't berate anyone, this is mearly a discussion.
Although I am not above the said behavior, I can honestly say I am beyond it.
Maybe it is you who needs to analyze your way of thinking.

where are the pictures of the hot girls on this site??!

this subject line is flagrant false advertising.

::climbs onto the bandwagon:: I am another shallow prick and honest about it! I used to lie and be hypocritical, just like *Nikki* described, but I have since changed my ways. The way I break it down is like this:

Looks: 35.5%
Smarts: 35.5%
Personality: 29%
will allow a ±5% margin of error for smarts and personality.

I'd rather have a good-looking witty bitch than a passive, intelligent gal who is too nice. Go fig :thumbsup:

Wow.....not <b>one</b> exclamation point. She never loses her poise. Now I'm really in love. :rolleyes:

Precisely what I think.

I can say personality means everything, but if the face just doesn't do it for me.. I can't go on. Sorry if it sounds shallow, but I need that physical attraction too.

I love the last part of your post, "Fortunately, tastes vary widely."
So Very True. Just because someone doesn't look attractive to me, doesn't mean she's ugly... just not my type, but the next guy who looks at her, might fall head over heels just at the sight of her.... Such is life.

To me, i will admit it, i look at looks first, but i wont pursue anything beyond that if the girl doesnt have a great personality and isnt my type. Looks do matter, but in the end, i wouldnt date the hottest girl in the world if we didnt get along. That is a hard lesson to learn, but in the end, to me, its not worth it.

I dunno, i think looks are important, but not everything. Just me though.

Re: Hey, look at this hot chic!!
 

I'm with you on this one, *Nikki,* but I spent many years as a hypocrite in re: the men I was attracted to.

They were tall, blond, and usually had longer hair. Intelligence was mandatory, as was a sense of humor.
Unfortunately, many of them had no sense of fidelity. They knew they were highly desirable and had no need to cater to my need for a one-woman man.
I got exactly what I deserved.

By age thirty, I gave up on men, said fuck it, I'm done.
Was celibate for 18 months, then while playing the role of designated driver to my very drunk friend, met another sober person- a guy. He wasn't my type at all. He was very underweight, he had a 1950's haircut and was quiet. And he had quite promenant acne scars. He was tall however, and nice (as well as blond ;) ). He was too shy to ask me out that night and told me six months later, when he finally tracked me down, that he regretted it and swore to himself that he would ask me out if he could ever find me again. I wasn't into going to bars anymore then and the very next time I went to one was the night he found me. It was a huge fluke because we live in a sprawling metropolitan area-- it was a different club--but he made a bee-line for me and tho' I still did not find him attractive, I admired his persistence and consented to his request for my phone number. We spoke a number of times by telephone for hours each time--he had a very attractive phone voice. By the time we went out on a date, his lack of attractiveness was less of an issue, but even tho' we continued dating, it still took me some time to get over the scars on his face and his extreme thinness.

My feeling now is that a person's looks are a *bonus,* not a necessity. I can be quite bowled over by a strong intellect or a sharp wit or depth of creativity.

Looks do matter to some people, but as others here have said, we have different ideas about what we like, and even that can change as we mature and start looking at the bigger picture.

Well you put a title like that and most will visit just to see what's going on . . . . . kinda answers alot don't it . . . wonder what response would have been if you'd put, hey check out this fat old pig . . . ?

I like the AVATAR Nikki . . . . V cool

IMHO, Looks do matter. Although, it is not the most important thing in the world, but looks DO matter. Anyone who says that looks don't matter is either lying, blind or kidding themselves. Let's face it, you have to at least find the opposite sex attractive enough to touch, otherwise would you be comfortable making love to that person.

Now, before everyone starts flaming me...let me put it another way...

When you walk into a room full of strangers, who are you going to approach? I am betting that the person who you approach is someone that is at least decent looking, good hygene, nicely dressed etc. or are you going to approach the person with 2 teeth, blemishes and a stump for a leg? My point is, initially it is all about looks, you have no idea what the person is like on the inside. Nor do you have time to talk to EVERYONE in the room to get to know their personality.

In my experience, I will always approach the nice looking female. This is not because I am shallow, but instead because by looking at her, I have made a few assumptions about her personality. By looking at what she is wearing, how she carries herself, what kind of make up she has on, how she does her hair, etc. I can draw a few conclusions in my mind as to what she is like. Now even though I may approach you becasue I find you attractive, trust me that only goes so far. It will in the end be your personality that keeps me their talking to you. No matter how hot the girl may look, she still has to be fun to talk to and hang with in order for me to stay. If she turns out to be empty inside, I will walk away...

Moral of the story...I may be physically attracted to you when I approach, but it is your personality that keeps there for the long haul...

That is my rant...let the counter ranting and flaming begin...

I will agree to the fact that most people are shallow.

Sure looks can get my attentiopn but you need something else to hold it. At this stage in my life I would rather have inteligence and a good heart than a great bod. Something else that does comes with good looks is a sense of self worth and that is also very attractive.

Re: Hey, look at this hot chic!!
 

Nikki, im not sure that the responses on the crush thread really indicate that people are that shallow. I think crushes are a shallow kind of thing by their nature. I always thought of crushes as more of a "damn shes cute" often without really knowing the other person than a "wow we really have alot in common i should get to know this person better".

But as they say opinions are like assholes.

Re: Hey, look at this hot chic!!
 

I see where you are coming from with this, but in my own (at least) defense, I chose suviko, in that thread, <b>before</b> I had ever seen a pic of her in TE, after the fact. I chose her because I like the way that she <b>thinks</b>. Only after the fact did I stumble onto her pic. I will say that she is actually much more atractive than I had thought her to be. Being very pleasantly surprised by that, I can see where you are going with this.

We are all hypocrites.. Looks matter since the first impression of a person comes from the looks. Second is intelligence, deamanor and sense of humor, third is the actual personality. (At least this is the order I have noticed within me and my friends)..

To some looks matter more and to others less. That's just the way things are. Sad but true.
I don't think things are going to change anytime soon, but i can assure you that there are people going for personality rather than looks out there. Though they are hard to find.

I don't think shallow is a good word to use in the appreciation of the opposite sex. Yes, I go for looks first, but immediately after I get past that stage, I look for assertiveness, high moral standards, intelligence, sophistication, high self-esteem, and most importantly, a sense of humor. Someone who knows she is naturally beautiful, but doesn't use it as a device to gain acceptance. I consider myself an attractive male, I am healthy, I eat well and workout on a regular basis, am educated and career oriented. It isn't too much to look for those same qualities in a partner. Yes, beauty is only skin deep, but one has to start somewhere.

"It's what's on the inside that counts, but the outside makes you wanna look there."

As far as the crush thing goes. To me a crush is a very fragile thing, usually based on looks and, maybe a couple things. I have a crush on Meg White of the White Stripes. Why? 'Cause she's cute and plays the drums. Finding out anymore about her might crush the crush. If I found out she smoked crack, liked to start small fires or still had a big Barbie collection, those might be deal breakers for me. Crush over.

So, as far as I'm concerned, seeing someone's picture on the internet and thinking their attractive is understandable. Getting to know them and STILL finding them attractive is another story all together.

As far as attractiveness goes, it truely is in the eye of the beholder. Some girls that are supposedly "hot" hold zero interest for me. I like red hair, glasses and girls who read. Lots of guys don't. It all depends on personal tastes. In the long run though, personality and intellegence go much further with me than the face and body. That's just me.

I am really enjoying reading this. I like how all of you explain yourselves and your views on this.

It is great to see such a variety of answers.

There is a high level of anonymity on the web and people do act more basal (including me). And there’s not anything necessarily wrong with that. It’s the attitude of: “This isn’t real life – if you think I’m immature, I’ll likely never know about it. And if it truly troubles me, I can become someone else.”

At the time of this writing, the ratio of people who have viewed this thread to those who have posted a reply is about 25:1.

Doing a random look at others in the General Discussion section, a rough average is about 8:1.

Having a subject of "Hey, look at this hot chic!!" was an experiment, wasn't it.

Looks matter. Period.

Individual definitions of what "looks" appealing differ, but no-one would be attracted to anyone if they did not put any emphasis on physical attraction.

Personality is part of physical attraction. One's personality is reflected in how they present themselves to the world.

Anyone who argues that human males like hot chicks because of instincts is just coping out. While I agree that animal instincts are the basis for human beings' liking attractive people more than unattractive people, I also believe that humans are unique in our abilities to go beyond what we're prewired with. Our intellects allow us to look beyond these primal urges and look for other good qualities in the people we like to be around.

Hey, the title of this thread is really clever! You sure tricked me! It seems as if I was thinking with my penis rather than with my brain! Imagine that, ahahahaa!!!

Your complaining about how people are shallow and hypocritical about it is pretty stupid, no offense. Everyone is shallow.

PS> I like boobies.

Who said I was complaining?? This is a discussion.

Also I think that if you read the responses here you will learn that not everyone is shallow.

While you could make the argument that it's just bad genes, generally the way someone looks is a big personality pointer to me - how they look or try to look can indicate a lot of things. If they care about putting themselves together, that can say a lot.

And then of course, there's the more visual stimulation. Yeah, the mind is important, but like somebody said - the outside is what makes you want to look inside. And for me, a good piece of that is what I mentioned above.

Hal, with another quip, brings up a great point: Humans are attracted to beauty. What is human beauty? Symmetry and scale. All babies recognize when they are shown a deformed face because the symmetry and proportion of the features is off. Why? Good genetics. Skinny? bad thing for most people who do not watch TV and read People®. Fat people (not plump or "healthy" as i call it)? Bad. Shortens life and it is noted in our subconscious as such, i believe. The focus on personality is is probably from the understanding that if their is more of an attraction, the genetics will be more surly passed on (they will not cheat). Probably so many more. That is why sports people are so attractive to so many people. they are HEALTHY.

One question? why would any man want a weak woman? is it the "i can protect" thing or is it also the ability to rule over her? I have to say, i like that my fiancee is cut and could nearly take me down if she wanted to (i have more body mass and had an older brother, i don't go down easily. er... THAT way i don't. :) ).

.5 cent.

In response to Elitegibsen, i would have to agree. But to say that you can control everything that has been prewired for thousands/millions o years is a bit presumptuous and prideful. It is always on the underside of our decision making and knowing it is a good way to make your own autonomous decisions.

I am probably not qualified to be commenting in this thread. I have been married nearly 15 years, and can hardly remember my pursuing days. :-)

My personal take on this, however, is mixed. I think physical attraction (purposefully not using the term "physical beauty") is part of an initial contact. Beyond that a person becomes attractive as a whole. Body, mind, and being.

I also realize that I could never be seriously (more than girl watching) attracted to any woman who I did not already know as a person. I just can't see that happening for me. My wife and I knew each other as classmates and friends and had spent a lot of time together before I started having romantic thoughts about her.

Also I know that I find myself disliking women who seem to have the attitude of "I am pretty - therefore the world revolves around me." I do not enjoy spending time with these types of people.

Just my thoughts at the moment on this topic.

I like seeing pics of people I talk to online. Not because I want to slobber over pics of online babes (my wife would kill me if I did) but because I like putting a face with a name. I as frequently ask to see pics of guys as pics of girls.

To be honest I don't think I've seen a pic of any girl who posts here. Probably not any boy apart from Halx either.

then again, my tastes are probably very different from other people. I honestly think my wife is the most beautiful woman I've ever met (and I'm not just saying that because we're married). I'm sure I'd think some people here were very pretty, and some would leave me cold.

I wish I had more time tonight to finish reading all the posts, BUT I dont! I will say only this.. for someone to be shallow, he/she has to appear shallow! seeing a Beautiful woman and complimenting that woman doesnt make someone shallow.. I agree with most that I did read in saying that it is natural for mammals to be "guided" if you will toward an attractive mate.. Beauty is only skin deep though, so if you are looking for a beautiful woman first and foremost to spend your life with, THEN git ur wurkin boots on boy! cause you got a long job ahead of ya!! Formerly Lonely!! Only

*Nikki*, for the record, I must say, you have a lot of class.