Angels True or not - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

absorbentishe · 07-15-2003, 10:24 AM

Okay, I found this story, and reminded me of a friend's child that died of cancer, and spoke of his guardian angel. What's every one's thought on the subject. Do you believe or not? Thanks!

http://wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/9ony.../200f2b7c.html

Ryan's Angels
Reported by: Michael Flannery
Photographed by: Francisco Caceres
Updated: 07/11/03 17:26:07
You might remember Ryan Reynolds.
Ryan was on Nine On Your Kids' Side back in February. At the time, he was fighting an inoperable brain tumor and needed at home day care so he could sleep longer.
This past April, Ryan lost that fight.
A couple of months before he died, Ryan was at a picnic with family and friends. During the hayride portion of the afternoon, he told his mom he could see angels at the picnic. This wasn't unusual, because Ryan often spoke of angels.
But when the family photos from the picnic were developed, right there among the aunts and uncles and friends were white transparent spots.
"We had first thought that it was something to do with the developing," said Ryan's mother, Shirley Reynolds. "We thought that maybe there was spots on it."
The ghostly images appeared as scattered little spots, a sort-of fish shape and one large white globe which little Ryan recognized right away.
"When he saw it, he said, 'Mom, this is why I felt so good to go on the hay ride.' He said, 'Because right there is my guardian angel.' He said, 'I knew she'd be there,'" Ryan's mother said, recounting a conversation with her son.
"'That's my angel Mommy, she talks to me all the time,'" Ryan said to his mother.
Ryan's mom wasn't the only person to get photos of Ryan's "angels". In fact, three different cameras using three different kinds of film were developed at three different places and all had the same transparent white shapes.
On top of that, this wasn't Ryan's first experience with angels, his mother said.
"I said, 'Ryan, I said, who were you talking to?' and he said, 'Mommy, it's my angels.' And then he looked up at me, and he never met my parents, my parents died way before he was ever born -- and he said, 'Mommy, your mommy and daddy.'"
"I said, 'Yeah, what about them?' He said, 'Is that them in the picture on the wall?' And I said yes. And he said, 'Mom, I just wanted you to know, they're both ok.' He said, 'They're just as pretty as they are in that picture, except they have wings and they're waiting for me.'
Angie Shafer had a fourth camera there, taking pictures for the Community Press newspapers. The spots in the photos she took with her digital camera could have been due to low light, but after she saw the other photos, she doesn't think so.
"That's unbelievable," she said. "I believe it though. I believe there was a presence there watching over him. He seemed like such a great kid. The little time I was there and spent with him."
Ryan Kurtz is a photographer for Cincinnati Magazine and has been developing and taking photos for 15 years. Kurtz said he was able to maybe explain away a few of the spots, but only a few.
"That could be from dirt or water on the lens. These -- I've never seen a shape like that as far as a reflection of a flash along with this perfect circle. You wouldn't get a circle like that from a marking on a lens," Kurtz said.
Are these angels or did all three cameras see the same reflections in different places at different times?
"That's really bizarre, I've never seen anything like it," Kurtz said.
I guess only Ryan knows for sure.
"He said, 'They're my guardian angels, Mom. They are all here for me. I'm just not ready to go. They're with me. They've been there since I was born,'" Ryan's mother added.
And now when I think of Ryan, I see him as the happy little, healthy boy he used to be, running and playing.
Are they angels or dust on the lens? You'll have to make your own decision, but this ex-altar boy from St. Clare Church in College Hill, he believes.

lurkette · 07-15-2003, 11:02 AM

I have a friend who sees angels. He says they're all around us, and they do what we ask them to. They can be protective, or we can ask them to be demons. He's told me some stuff and I've seen some stuff myself that makes me believe. I don't know what they are - energy, dead spirits, whatever, but I do believe they're there.

ninety09 · 07-15-2003, 12:15 PM

I know many people who claim they already saw guardian angels. A friend of mine was very sick when she was young and needed surgery. Her parents said that every night, they saw a guardian angel going in the girls room. After the girl got the surgery, they never saw the angel again..

However, I'd have to see it myself to believe it.

Tom Thumb · 07-15-2003, 12:17 PM

Glurge, glurge, glurge. I believe in free will, not cherubs.

RelaX · 07-15-2003, 12:29 PM

I don't know... I mean, at night... when I'm on the TB and frevently using my right hand, it sometimes passes through my head... I suuuure would not want some heavenly being of dead relative with me right then.

Phaenx · 07-15-2003, 12:51 PM

In order for angels to exist, so does God. Most religions are based on faith, if you could see angels, or talk with God, then there would be no need for faith, thus contradicting the whole religion.

BentNotTwisted · 07-15-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Thumb
Glurge, glurge, glurge. I believe in free will, not cherubs.

New word for the day, TY Tom.
I would like to believe in them. I'd like to know how I can see mine, if I have a guardian angel. If it's one of those nasty deamon things, I'd rather not.

Phaenx · 07-15-2003, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BentNotTwisted
New word for the day, TY Tom.
I would like to believe in them. I'd like to know how I can see mine, if I have a guardian angel. If it's one of those nasty deamon things, I'd rather not.

I'd have a few words as well. Namely: "Where the fuck were you when I lost the remote, dummy!?"

lurkette · 07-15-2003, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
[comment removed - following post responds to the fact that Phaenx does not believe in the existence of angels]

Actually my friend is quite sane. He functions in the world, has a life, a career, friends, several houses, is in no way I can discern, insane. He has a very rational explanation for what he sees, and the things he says about the angels are never discordant with the otherwise observable reality of things. He is a strong believer in science, believes (knows) basically that physics and spirituality are intimately intertwined in a way we just haven't come to understand yet. You're entitled to your opinion, but I am a skeptic and I know what I've experienced, and I believe at least that what he calls "angels" are real.

crow_daw · 07-15-2003, 03:12 PM

I've always been interested in angels, but I don't know if I fully believe in them or not. I like to believe that my aunt is watching over me, but I just don't know.

Cynthetiq · 07-15-2003, 03:18 PM

people claim to see them... i'd love to believe, but i'd have to see it... there are plenty of cameras both still and movie.... and well we should have seen something by now...

Mael · 07-15-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
In order for angels to exist, so does God. Most religions are based on faith, if you could see angels, or talk with God, then there would be no need for faith, thus contradicting the whole religion.

if there were angels, and therefore god, you would still have to have faith that the religion you follow is the correct one. even if god opened up the skies and said "hey, this is me and this is what i want" religion would still be around. we would just happen to know the right one. currently it's based on faith because we don't know if there's a god or not, angels would be proof that there is more than we can see. as it is, i don't believe in angels.

homerhop · 07-15-2003, 03:43 PM

Most people who know me and know how my life has gone tell me that there has been someone looking over me.
I have always put it down to just pure luck, but every now and then I think about how I have survived accidents and think no way was it always luck.

clavus · 07-15-2003, 04:13 PM

I think a fundamental flaw to the story has been overlooked. According to the Jewish and Christian religions (and probably Islam too), people don't become angles when they die. Angels are something different. They are God's messengers and warriors. Regardles of what you may see in Family Circus, Grandma and Grandpa aren't issued a halo and new pair of wings when they die.

It has been argued by far more educated people than me that, unlike we human folk, angels do not have souls.

SO if I were to believe in angels, I'd still say this story is bullshit.

I would love to hear Lebell's take on this. Yo, Lebell, am I way off base on this one?

Mael · 07-15-2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clavus
I think a fundamental flaw to the story has been overlooked. According to the Jewish and Christian religions (and probably Islam too), people don't become angles when they die. Angels are something different. They are God's messengers and warriors. Regardles of what you may see in Family Circus, Grandma and Grandpa aren't issued a halo and new pair of wings when they die.

It has been argued by far more educated people than me that, unlike we human folk, angels do not have souls.

SO if I were to believe in angels, I'd still say this story is bullshit.

I would love to hear Lebell's take on this. Yo, Lebell, am I way off base on this one?

just wondering, but why couldn't people die and become angels? how do any of us know that that isn't how it works? for all we know, all religions are wrong and something else is at work in the universe...

WhoaitsZ · 07-15-2003, 04:54 PM

okay. first off you all know i'm a fellow lunatic along with Gakface.

but lemme try to be rational. (note the word 'try')

when we die we have chemicals to help put us down. kinda the same affect as morphine. that makes me wonder how real some stuff is at the last moment or two of life.

as far as pictures go. sorry. i don't buy it. the only thing i've seen on film that totally surprises me are the 'orbs'. scientist can't explain them, many film makers or graphics artist or whatever the fuck they are swear its impossible t do on film. us spirit hunters (or haunted) have no idea what they are either... anyway..

i believe the kid. i've had angels more than once and the not so sweet kin too. i've had somem majorly weird experiences post on another board.

in the end i know its possible.

oh. and all due respect the whole faith makes it impossible.....yada yada. that's crap. the world is full of weird shit and i guarantee God has very few, if any, rules he told us about that He must play by. its just rediculous.

Hard8s · 07-15-2003, 05:00 PM

WHen I was younger, there was a girl down the street from me who had MS. She was stuck in a wheel chir a would be for the rest of her life. Very sweet little girl 4-5 yrs old. She started talking about angels, and how they spoke with her all the time. She told her mom that they said she would be with them soon. She seemed so happy about it too. A couple of weeks later they found her dead, under her parents bed on which she had been taking a nap. To this day they do not know how she got there, and she couldn't use her legs to get herself there. They were shattered! But then they thought about her angels, and what they had been telling her for weeks. I still don't know if I believe in them or not but she seemed to know her time was coming, and she didn't seem that upset about it.

punx1325 · 07-15-2003, 05:34 PM

I have never seen an angel, and I'm not really sure if all these people who have seen them are "sane." But I like the thought of someone watching over you and protecting you. I just really hope it's not one of my relatives.....

viejo gringo · 07-15-2003, 06:44 PM

If you think there is no such thing--don't tell my wife.
She really believes in them...me?? hell I don't know,
but then again, she has me don't she???

Lebell · 07-15-2003, 07:35 PM

*waves at Clavus*

Angels are definitely an interesting topic that I put into my HMMMM catagory of unexplained events that make me wonder about the nature of the cosmos.

There are just so many accounts of unexplained phenonema like this from all over the world throughout history, that I cannot just brush it off of mass hysteria, chemical inbalances, etc.

People have these experiences and suddenly possess tremendous peace and are extraordinarily calm at the thought of dying, as if they have gained special insite.

I myself have known several people who have had unexplained events in their lives and have even seen "something" they call angels.

So I think SOMETHING is going on, even if we don't know exactly what.

I do agree with Clavus that modern Christian/Islamic mythos does tell us that humans do not become angels upon death, but it doesn't say anything about whether or not our loved ones can look after us in the afterlife.

Destrox · 07-15-2003, 08:24 PM

Hm, intresting non the less.
But I'm still going with the whole no god includes no angels side of my views.

remember folks, its my opinion not yours.

Nisses · 07-16-2003, 03:22 AM

looks like that little kid managed to solve what a century of bickering in Byzantium couldn't: angels appear to be female.

And no, I don't believe in them, sorry.

greathornytoad · 07-16-2003, 04:21 AM

"I see dead people"

Bill O'Rights · 07-16-2003, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lurkette
...I've seen some stuff myself that makes me believe. I don't know what they are - energy, dead spirits, whatever, but I do believe they're there.

I'm with lurkette on this one. I believe that <b><i>something</b></i> is there. Call it angels, if you want. I don't/won't even pretend to know/understand.

Derwood · 07-16-2003, 11:26 AM

I started thinking about this subject a lot when we had our baby. She's 4 months now, but around the age of 2 months, she would never look at me or my wife when we held her. She was always looking at things over our shoulders. It was as if she was seeing things there that we couldn't. And it wasn't just random, jerky movement type stuff that kids that age usually have. She clearly and calmly was intently looking at something that to my wife and I was just a blank wall.

I wonder now why we don't have memories from the first 2-3 years of our lives. What is it that we could see that we can't now see as adults?

KeyserSoze · 07-16-2003, 09:31 PM

Sorry, but I just have to do this after reading the heading to the post:

http://www.powerpop.org/rally/

I say TRUE!

MikeyChalupa · 07-17-2003, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KeyserSoze
Sorry, but I just have to do this after reading the heading to the post:

http://www.powerpop.org/rally/

I say TRUE!

DAMN YOU! I was going to make the Anaheim Angels joke!

Guess I'll go to plan B:

I believe in THESE angels:

-Mikey

fallen_angel · 07-21-2003, 05:50 PM

Ive always believed in angels

I have been saved many times by mine so of course i believe because i owe him my life. and i know that it is a male because anytime i have been in a life threatening situation he has been there. 2 times during a snow storm while driving and a few times when i was 9 and had spinal surgery. hes young maybe 25 looking blue eyes and brown hair. last time i saw him was when i was going back to school. it was snowing really hard and the roads should have been closed i pulled off for a second so i could rest my eyes a few minutes later a pink car drove by which had been behind me a few more passed then i went on wehn i got to yates center this big red truck come up behind me and then passed and started slowing down. i dont pass on snow so i slowed down too. then traffic stopped when i got up to where they were directing traffic i saw that the pink car and the 2 others that were ahead of me had wrecked with a truck and a semi had gone off the road behind it. the girl in the pink car was my friend marcy gray. the guy in the truck had been watching me everytime i looked up at his rear view mirror. when we passed the wreck he turned one direction i went straight and the raids were clear from then on.

Tirian · 07-23-2003, 06:59 AM

I did a google search for +"bible study" +"angel" and found some interesting links to sites which have various biblical references on agels.

Just thought I'd add this in case anyone is interested in biblical writings on this subject.

Jesus Pimp · 07-23-2003, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mael
if there were angels, and therefore god, you would still have to have faith that the religion you follow is the correct one. even if god opened up the skies and said "hey, this is me and this is what i want" religion would still be around. we would just happen to know the right one. currently it's based on faith because we don't know if there's a god or not, angels would be proof that there is more than we can see. as it is, i don't believe in angels.

You wouldn't need faith then because the proof would be there right in front of yout face thus contradicting the need for faith.

07-23-2003, 09:40 AM

In some ways I really hope that angels exist and I also think it's terrifying that someone perhaps knows my thoughts and watchs me, protects me without my knowledge.

Minx · 07-23-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Derwood
I wonder now why we don't have memories from the first 2-3 years of our lives. What is it that we could see that we can't now see as adults?

Good point. I think it is because children are innocent....untainted by life in general and being in such a state are more receptive to what we, as adults, are not willing to see.
Do I believe in angels? I can't honestly say. I want to and I suppose deep down I do. There are, by the way, nine different "types" of angels. They are not all the sweet images of a beautiful woman with downy wings and a serene smile....many are warrior angels. It's interesting stuff when you start looking into it. For myself....I would be comforted by the thought that my two children have their own guardians to keep an eye on them!

Slims · 07-23-2003, 12:05 PM

Um, these kids still died.

Besides, if there were angels, and they saw fit to not be seen, I doubt they would forget to stay invisible to the camera, 'special' people, etc.

ghostly · 07-23-2003, 09:54 PM

I don't believe in gods or angels. Any omnipotent, omnicient god that allowed entire galaxies to be sterilized by radiation from a central black hole (for which hard observational evidence exists), would really tax my power of belief in their "benevolence". Any such diety would best be understood as a creature out of HP Lovecraft's mythos.

However, I know many people that derive great comfort from their beliefs. None claim contact with angels, but one says she met and was rescued by the Virgin Mary when she was a child, wandering lost in the woods. And when someone is staring death in the face, one would be a fool to deny them what comfort they can get from faith.

As for the guy who sees angels all the time, he must have some really good drugs.

Deuce66 · 07-23-2003, 10:31 PM

I dont beleive in anything, I'm a nihilist. I wont go into a rant about how every modern religion is total bullshit, but well..take my word for it. They are =P

There may have been a time when religion served a purpose but, in my opinion, they only serve to impede us now.

Ashton · 07-23-2003, 10:51 PM

Religion is make believe.........

/nuff said.

Jeff · 07-23-2003, 11:16 PM

I dont' believe in Angels. Maybe those who claim they've seen them or talked to them were fooled by their mind.

sadistikdreams · 07-24-2003, 09:26 AM

Atheist.

camera27 · 07-24-2003, 11:19 AM

There is a spiritual world, I believe. Good and evil angels do exist.
We will all believe after death when we see them. I don't want to see the evil ones reaching for me after death!

Otaku · 07-24-2003, 07:54 PM

i dont believe in either god or angels.

One thing i have always wanted to know is:

why the hell god would make us, leave cryptic little clues around and demand we believe in him?

Why not just tell us outright. plant a knowledge of him in our minds? whats with all the dodging and hiding on his part?

WHY does he NEED us to have faith? it makes no sense. Itnt knowledge better than faith anyway?

07-15-2003, 10:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
absorbentishe Boy am I horny today Location: T O L E D O, Toledo!!	Angels True or not Okay, I found this story, and reminded me of a friend's child that died of cancer, and spoke of his guardian angel. What's every one's thought on the subject. Do you believe or not? Thanks! http://wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/9ony.../200f2b7c.html Ryan's Angels Reported by: Michael Flannery Photographed by: Francisco Caceres Updated: 07/11/03 17:26:07 You might remember Ryan Reynolds. Ryan was on Nine On Your Kids' Side back in February. At the time, he was fighting an inoperable brain tumor and needed at home day care so he could sleep longer. This past April, Ryan lost that fight. A couple of months before he died, Ryan was at a picnic with family and friends. During the hayride portion of the afternoon, he told his mom he could see angels at the picnic. This wasn't unusual, because Ryan often spoke of angels. But when the family photos from the picnic were developed, right there among the aunts and uncles and friends were white transparent spots. "We had first thought that it was something to do with the developing," said Ryan's mother, Shirley Reynolds. "We thought that maybe there was spots on it." The ghostly images appeared as scattered little spots, a sort-of fish shape and one large white globe which little Ryan recognized right away. "When he saw it, he said, 'Mom, this is why I felt so good to go on the hay ride.' He said, 'Because right there is my guardian angel.' He said, 'I knew she'd be there,'" Ryan's mother said, recounting a conversation with her son. "'That's my angel Mommy, she talks to me all the time,'" Ryan said to his mother. Ryan's mom wasn't the only person to get photos of Ryan's "angels". In fact, three different cameras using three different kinds of film were developed at three different places and all had the same transparent white shapes. On top of that, this wasn't Ryan's first experience with angels, his mother said. "I said, 'Ryan, I said, who were you talking to?' and he said, 'Mommy, it's my angels.' And then he looked up at me, and he never met my parents, my parents died way before he was ever born -- and he said, 'Mommy, your mommy and daddy.'" "I said, 'Yeah, what about them?' He said, 'Is that them in the picture on the wall?' And I said yes. And he said, 'Mom, I just wanted you to know, they're both ok.' He said, 'They're just as pretty as they are in that picture, except they have wings and they're waiting for me.' Angie Shafer had a fourth camera there, taking pictures for the Community Press newspapers. The spots in the photos she took with her digital camera could have been due to low light, but after she saw the other photos, she doesn't think so. "That's unbelievable," she said. "I believe it though. I believe there was a presence there watching over him. He seemed like such a great kid. The little time I was there and spent with him." Ryan Kurtz is a photographer for Cincinnati Magazine and has been developing and taking photos for 15 years. Kurtz said he was able to maybe explain away a few of the spots, but only a few. "That could be from dirt or water on the lens. These -- I've never seen a shape like that as far as a reflection of a flash along with this perfect circle. You wouldn't get a circle like that from a marking on a lens," Kurtz said. Are these angels or did all three cameras see the same reflections in different places at different times? "That's really bizarre, I've never seen anything like it," Kurtz said. I guess only Ryan knows for sure. "He said, 'They're my guardian angels, Mom. They are all here for me. I'm just not ready to go. They're with me. They've been there since I was born,'" Ryan's mother added. And now when I think of Ryan, I see him as the happy little, healthy boy he used to be, running and playing. Are they angels or dust on the lens? You'll have to make your own decision, but this ex-altar boy from St. Clare Church in College Hill, he believes.

07-15-2003, 11:02 AM	#2 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	I have a friend who sees angels. He says they're all around us, and they do what we ask them to. They can be protective, or we can ask them to be demons. He's told me some stuff and I've seen some stuff myself that makes me believe. I don't know what they are - energy, dead spirits, whatever, but I do believe they're there. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

07-15-2003, 12:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tom Thumb Crazy Location: In a self portrait	Glurge, glurge, glurge. I believe in free will, not cherubs. __________________ My name is marketing. Now buy my product.

07-15-2003, 12:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
RelaX Follower of Ner'Zhul Location: Netherlands	I don't know... I mean, at night... when I'm on the TB and frevently using my right hand, it sometimes passes through my head... I suuuure would not want some heavenly being of dead relative with me right then. __________________ The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals. We cause accidents. - Nathaniel Borenstein

07-15-2003, 12:51 PM	#6 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	In order for angels to exist, so does God. Most religions are based on faith, if you could see angels, or talk with God, then there would be no need for faith, thus contradicting the whole religion. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy Last edited by MSD; 07-15-2003 at 06:13 PM..

07-15-2003, 12:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
ninety09 Flavour of the Weak Location: Canada	I know many people who claim they already saw guardian angels. A friend of mine was very sick when she was young and needed surgery. Her parents said that every night, they saw a guardian angel going in the girls room. After the girl got the surgery, they never saw the angel again.. However, I'd have to see it myself to believe it.

07-15-2003, 03:12 PM	#10 (permalink)
crow_daw Idolator Location: Vol Country	I've always been interested in angels, but I don't know if I fully believe in them or not. I like to believe that my aunt is watching over me, but I just don't know. __________________ "We each have a star, all we have to do is find it. Once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded." - Earl Simmons

07-15-2003, 03:18 PM	#11 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	people claim to see them... i'd love to believe, but i'd have to see it... there are plenty of cameras both still and movie.... and well we should have seen something by now... __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-15-2003, 03:43 PM	#13 (permalink)
homerhop Insane Location: ÉIRE	Most people who know me and know how my life has gone tell me that there has been someone looking over me. I have always put it down to just pure luck, but every now and then I think about how I have survived accidents and think no way was it always luck. __________________ its evolution baby

07-15-2003, 04:13 PM	#14 (permalink)
clavus pow! Location: NorCal	I think a fundamental flaw to the story has been overlooked. According to the Jewish and Christian religions (and probably Islam too), people don't become angles when they die. Angels are something different. They are God's messengers and warriors. Regardles of what you may see in Family Circus, Grandma and Grandpa aren't issued a halo and new pair of wings when they die. It has been argued by far more educated people than me that, unlike we human folk, angels do not have souls. SO if I were to believe in angels, I'd still say this story is bullshit. I would love to hear Lebell's take on this. Yo, Lebell, am I way off base on this one? __________________ Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

07-15-2003, 04:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	okay. first off you all know i'm a fellow lunatic along with Gakface. but lemme try to be rational. (note the word 'try') when we die we have chemicals to help put us down. kinda the same affect as morphine. that makes me wonder how real some stuff is at the last moment or two of life. as far as pictures go. sorry. i don't buy it. the only thing i've seen on film that totally surprises me are the 'orbs'. scientist can't explain them, many film makers or graphics artist or whatever the fuck they are swear its impossible t do on film. us spirit hunters (or haunted) have no idea what they are either... anyway.. i believe the kid. i've had angels more than once and the not so sweet kin too. i've had somem majorly weird experiences post on another board. in the end i know its possible. oh. and all due respect the whole faith makes it impossible.....yada yada. that's crap. the world is full of weird shit and i guarantee God has very few, if any, rules he told us about that He must play by. its just rediculous.

07-15-2003, 05:00 PM	#17 (permalink)
Hard8s Addict Location: Wherever I am!	WHen I was younger, there was a girl down the street from me who had MS. She was stuck in a wheel chir a would be for the rest of her life. Very sweet little girl 4-5 yrs old. She started talking about angels, and how they spoke with her all the time. She told her mom that they said she would be with them soon. She seemed so happy about it too. A couple of weeks later they found her dead, under her parents bed on which she had been taking a nap. To this day they do not know how she got there, and she couldn't use her legs to get herself there. They were shattered! But then they thought about her angels, and what they had been telling her for weeks. I still don't know if I believe in them or not but she seemed to know her time was coming, and she didn't seem that upset about it. __________________ If ignorance is bliss, then wipe this smile off my face!

07-15-2003, 05:34 PM	#18 (permalink)
punx1325 Junkie Location: San Diego	I have never seen an angel, and I'm not really sure if all these people who have seen them are "sane." But I like the thought of someone watching over you and protecting you. I just really hope it's not one of my relatives..... __________________ If something seems too good to be true, then it probably is....

07-15-2003, 06:44 PM	#19 (permalink)
viejo gringo Registered User Location: Deep South Texas	If you think there is no such thing--don't tell my wife. She really believes in them...me?? hell I don't know, but then again, she has me don't she???

07-15-2003, 07:35 PM	#20 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	waves at Clavus Angels are definitely an interesting topic that I put into my HMMMM catagory of unexplained events that make me wonder about the nature of the cosmos. There are just so many accounts of unexplained phenonema like this from all over the world throughout history, that I cannot just brush it off of mass hysteria, chemical inbalances, etc. People have these experiences and suddenly possess tremendous peace and are extraordinarily calm at the thought of dying, as if they have gained special insite. I myself have known several people who have had unexplained events in their lives and have even seen "something" they call angels. So I think SOMETHING is going on, even if we don't know exactly what. I do agree with Clavus that modern Christian/Islamic mythos does tell us that humans do not become angels upon death, but it doesn't say anything about whether or not our loved ones can look after us in the afterlife. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

07-16-2003, 04:21 AM	#23 (permalink)
greathornytoad Banned Location: vancouver	"I see dead people"

07-15-2003, 08:24 PM	#21 (permalink)
Destrox Metal and Rock 4 Life Location: Phoenix	Hm, intresting non the less. But I'm still going with the whole no god includes no angels side of my views. remember folks, its my opinion not yours. __________________ You bore me.... next.

07-16-2003, 03:22 AM	#22 (permalink)
Nisses Shade Location: Belgium	looks like that little kid managed to solve what a century of bickering in Byzantium couldn't: angels appear to be female. And no, I don't believe in them, sorry. __________________ Moderation should be moderately moderated.

07-16-2003, 11:26 AM	#25 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	I started thinking about this subject a lot when we had our baby. She's 4 months now, but around the age of 2 months, she would never look at me or my wife when we held her. She was always looking at things over our shoulders. It was as if she was seeing things there that we couldn't. And it wasn't just random, jerky movement type stuff that kids that age usually have. She clearly and calmly was intently looking at something that to my wife and I was just a blank wall. I wonder now why we don't have memories from the first 2-3 years of our lives. What is it that we could see that we can't now see as adults? __________________ "You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

07-16-2003, 09:31 PM	#26 (permalink)
KeyserSoze Psycho Location: Lost Angeles	Sorry, but I just have to do this after reading the heading to the post: http://www.powerpop.org/rally/ I say TRUE! __________________ THERE IS NO KEYSER SOZE!!

07-21-2003, 05:50 PM	#28 (permalink)
fallen_angel Psycho Location: Somewhere between the Havens and the Earth	Ive always believed in angels I have been saved many times by mine so of course i believe because i owe him my life. and i know that it is a male because anytime i have been in a life threatening situation he has been there. 2 times during a snow storm while driving and a few times when i was 9 and had spinal surgery. hes young maybe 25 looking blue eyes and brown hair. last time i saw him was when i was going back to school. it was snowing really hard and the roads should have been closed i pulled off for a second so i could rest my eyes a few minutes later a pink car drove by which had been behind me a few more passed then i went on wehn i got to yates center this big red truck come up behind me and then passed and started slowing down. i dont pass on snow so i slowed down too. then traffic stopped when i got up to where they were directing traffic i saw that the pink car and the 2 others that were ahead of me had wrecked with a truck and a semi had gone off the road behind it. the girl in the pink car was my friend marcy gray. the guy in the truck had been watching me everytime i looked up at his rear view mirror. when we passed the wreck he turned one direction i went straight and the raids were clear from then on. __________________ from the Havens I have fallen. . . to the earth as a mangled form. . . writhing in pain, my wings torn and bloodied. . . I have one purpose, only one goal. . . to find you and love you, for I am your. . . fallen angel

07-23-2003, 06:59 AM	#29 (permalink)
Tirian Addict Location: Canada	I did a google search for +"bible study" +"angel" and found some interesting links to sites which have various biblical references on agels. Just thought I'd add this in case anyone is interested in biblical writings on this subject.

07-23-2003, 09:40 AM	#31 (permalink)
NotMinus Guest	In some ways I really hope that angels exist and I also think it's terrifying that someone perhaps knows my thoughts and watchs me, protects me without my knowledge.

07-23-2003, 12:05 PM	#33 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	Um, these kids still died. Besides, if there were angels, and they saw fit to not be seen, I doubt they would forget to stay invisible to the camera, 'special' people, etc. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

07-23-2003, 09:54 PM	#34 (permalink)
ghostly Upright	I don't believe in gods or angels. Any omnipotent, omnicient god that allowed entire galaxies to be sterilized by radiation from a central black hole (for which hard observational evidence exists), would really tax my power of belief in their "benevolence". Any such diety would best be understood as a creature out of HP Lovecraft's mythos. However, I know many people that derive great comfort from their beliefs. None claim contact with angels, but one says she met and was rescued by the Virgin Mary when she was a child, wandering lost in the woods. And when someone is staring death in the face, one would be a fool to deny them what comfort they can get from faith. As for the guy who sees angels all the time, he must have some really good drugs.

07-23-2003, 10:31 PM	#35 (permalink)
Deuce66 Tilted	I dont beleive in anything, I'm a nihilist. I wont go into a rant about how every modern religion is total bullshit, but well..take my word for it. They are =P There may have been a time when religion served a purpose but, in my opinion, they only serve to impede us now.

07-23-2003, 10:51 PM	#36 (permalink)
Ashton PORNHOUND Location: California	Religion is make believe......... /nuff said.

07-23-2003, 11:16 PM	#37 (permalink)
Jeff And we'll all float on ok... Location: Iowa City	I dont' believe in Angels. Maybe those who claim they've seen them or talked to them were fooled by their mind. __________________ For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us. --Charles Bukowski

07-24-2003, 09:26 AM	#38 (permalink)
sadistikdreams lonely rolling star Location: Seattle.	Atheist. __________________ "Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials." -Lin Yutang hearts, by d.a.

07-24-2003, 11:19 AM	#39 (permalink)
camera27 Tilted	There is a spiritual world, I believe. Good and evil angels do exist. We will all believe after death when we see them. I don't want to see the evil ones reaching for me after death!

07-24-2003, 07:54 PM	#40 (permalink)
Otaku Tilted	i dont believe in either god or angels. One thing i have always wanted to know is: why the hell god would make us, leave cryptic little clues around and demand we believe in him? Why not just tell us outright. plant a knowledge of him in our minds? whats with all the dodging and hiding on his part? WHY does he NEED us to have faith? it makes no sense. Itnt knowledge better than faith anyway?