Obesity vs Anorexia

[genuinegirly]

The Dilemmas of America's Weight Problems - Obesity vs. Anorexia - Any thoughts?

Is Anorexia a response to obesity, or an unrelated disorder?

When you see someone who is obese, are you bothered?
When you see someone who is obese, are you motivated to exercise?
If you live with someone who is obese, do you encourage them to eat in moderation and to exercise regularly?
Have you ever had the urge to puke when you have observed an obese person scarfing down food in a restaurant, as though they're starving?
Do you believe obesity should be medically treated as a mental disorder?
What connection do you see between gluttony and obesity?

Conversely,

When you see someone who is underweight, are you bothered?
When you see someone who is underweight, are you motivated to exercise?
If you live with someone who is anorexic, do you encourage them to eat in moderation and exercise regularly?
Have you ever had the urge to feed someone who appears underweight a big meal?
Do you believe anorexia should be treated as a medical disorder?
What connection do you see between humility or vanity and Anorexia?


What trends do you see in your community?
Are gyms as popular as the all-you-can-eat buffets?
Does your city/town/hamlet treat obese residents any differently than their moderate or skinny counterparts?

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My opinion:

Anorexia is a disorder that should be treated seriously.

Obesity is a relfection of poor eating habits and lack of personal responsibility. Since it is a precursor to serious health concerns, doctors should treat it as they would a disease. Weight loss programs should be prescribed by physicians, then covered by health insurance under the umbrella of preventative medicine.

After living with an obese mother and now my obese father-in-law, I see that they feel their weight as a problem, one that they would like to address, but they either feel helpless in managing it, or they do not feel they have the time to deal with it appropriately. Even significant support and encouragement from family is not enough to counteract their weight problems. No matter how much a family member tries to plan their meals, they will find more food, they will still feel hungry. It is a problem that becomes a burden on their family, a burden that is often set aside and ignored.

When I see someone who is obese, I am bothered. I do not enjoy standing next to someone who is obese. I feel they are invariably invading my personal space with their extra mass. When I watch them scarfing food, I want to pick up the fork from their hand and set it on the other side of the table, just out of their reach after every bite, so they have to pause and think about what they're about to put into their body.

When I see someone who is obese, I am motivated to exercise and to eat right.

When I see someone who is underweight, my response is different. My response is based upon living with an apartment of 4 borderline anorexic women, and traveling (as a lighting tech, not a dancer) with a college dance company where half of the women were bulimic. After these experiences, I began to associate underweight women with poor self-image and misconceptions about diet.

When I see someone who is underweight, I consider their body and wonder what their diet must be. I wonder if I would be physically healthy, able to do all of the running and activities I enjoy, with that diet. I am more motivated to cook for them, but present them with smallish portions, then tell them there's more if they're interested. I do my best to set my table with a variety of vegetables and foods that they will not feel guilty eating a lot of. I encourage them to eat, to eat a significant portion, but not push food on them. I am motivated to exercise. I am motivated to eat right. I am motivated to show them they can live a healthy lifestyle and still eat moderate portions, rather than impairing their thought processes and physical mobility through starvation.

In my community, we have a couple of all-you-can eat Sushi places and one all-you-can eat mandarin kitchen. They do not seem to be popular. There are three local gyms, and several independent facilities for personal training. In this neighborhood, you pass nearly one person from every house walking or running with pets or with friends. When you walk by an elementary school, you don't see any obese children playing in the playground. High schools are a different story: obesity seems to have taken a hold on these children. Almost all are either a little chunky, athletic, or grossly underweight. There is no middle-ground. I wonder what they looked like when they were in elementary school, and if there is some transitional fat stage going on in junior high, so I walk by the junior high and see they're mainly scrawny things, getting used to their skin. It makes me wonder if the level of stress at the high school level of academics is contributing to unhealthy eating habits.

[Halx]

I recently had a discussion with a rather thin and attractive girl about the culture of people who have been forced to clean off their plate at each meal. She was like me, never held to this task. Thus, she eats only what she feels is enough. The end result is a good looking body of normal proportions. Those who DO clean off their plate out of forced habit usually seem to carry more weight than they should. I figure this could be a contributing factor to obesity.

[snowy]

Originally Posted by Halx

I recently had a discussion with a rather thin and attractive girl about the culture of people who have been forced to clean off their plate at each meal. She was like me, never held to this task. Thus, she eats only what she feels is enough. The end result is a good looking body of normal proportions. Those who DO clean off their plate out of forced habit usually seem to carry more weight than they should. I figure this could be a contributing factor to obesity.

I think it has more to do with the portions put on those plates than whether or not they're cleared off. Most people serve themselves far too much food on gigantic plates. My Dutch grandparents and Dutch great-aunts and uncles all lived through the Dutch famine of 1944. To not clear your plate when eating with them was a big no-no, therefore you only put as much on your plate as you could finish. Big portions and stuffing one's self were also no-nos. You only ate enough to be full. Personally, I eat smaller portions and use salad plates instead of dinner plates.

We underestimate the effect that parents have on eating habits as well. This especially applies to eating disorders. Young girls see their mothers on diets all the time and want to emulate that behavior; in the long run, this leads to some serious issues with eating healthily and body image. It also applies to problems with obesity; if parents model behavior that suggests it's healthy to be lazy and eat a lot, then that's what kids are going to do.

I think both anorexia and obesity are very complicated issues. There are mental health aspects to both problems. Anorexia is often caused by a need to control a situation, due to a lack of ability to control other aspects of life. It's easy to say that obesity is caused by a "lack of personal responsibility", but I doubt that's really the case for many obese people. I'd be more willing to put money on depression as a factor, because people who are depressed lack motivation--and motivation is a key component to losing weight and improving one's self. Therefore, both issues should be treated medically and in a holistic fashion--meaning all of the issues that relate to the weight problem (be it lack of weight or surplus of weight) should be evaluated and addressed.

And I don't hang out with anorexics. I had two friends in college--one was an anorexic and the other had serious body image issues--and all of their problems rapidly became too much for me to handle. They wanted me to be their counselor. I'm not a counselor. It's not a person's weight that bothers me--it's whether or not they have issues with their body image. People with positive body image, regardless of size, are enjoyable to be around. People with negative body image, regardless of size, are depressing to be around.

[stevie667]

I would like to point out that anorexia is a mental condition, wheras obesity can be caused by both mental problems (i.e. not knowing when the stop the fcuk eating) and various metabolic anomolies (e.g. thyroid issues, metabolic disease, genetic inclination towards extra fatty deposits). That's a seperate thread in itself so i won't go into it.

Anorexia is a much more important thing to sort out than obesity imo, as mental trauma is often much harder to fix that physiological problems. The psychiatrist in me is always screaming its head off when i see someone visibly anorexic walk past, but never really does (except the odd occasion) when i see a fat person.

The community i'm in doesn't really see much eitherway, though there is definatly an increase in overweight induviduals.

Heres a question, how about anorexia vs. extreme muscles? What do you think when you see someone who is exceptionally muscled (i.e. 250+ lbs)? Personally i'm in awe, but i know that its just not good for you long term, so mixed feelings there.

Not enough education from the word go about nutrition and exercise (or enough consensus maybe) for my liking.

[BadNick]

I really don't know all that much about these disorders but I've seen both happen in my immediate family. From that along with my limited research, I would put obesity into a similar disorder category as anorexia. The two people in my family who had these disorders were each on the verge of having organs shutting down and risking death.

I feel bad for people struggling with either of these issues. For both people in my family, they seem to have gotten it under control and are on a healthier path now, though this took significant medical and therapeutic interventions.

As far as my two boys at home, now 12 & 13 yrs old, they've both had problems with being too overweight. My older boy is now into team sports at school so he's managed to get into shape over the last year; the younger guy is struggling with it. When he says he's still hungry I advise him that it's OK to feel hunger pangs and that if you endure it for a short while your body adjusts and then you'll get on a roll in the other direction. I'm still not sure why my boys are struggling with this since my wife has always been slender and I'm not overweight...partly I think it's our unorganized helter-skelter approach to eating. Instead of sitting down at a regular dinner table, we fit the stereotypical family on the run, too busy, eating in front of the TV, etc.

As far as how I was raised, nobody had to force me to eat anything since I always loved all sorts of foods. I usually ate everything, took more, then ate what others left. When I was a teenager I was heavier than normal but far from obese; then as I got over 20'ish I got slim but I still love see food...if I see it I eat it.

[Ayashe]

I have also had this discussion many times. In my opinion thin people, not necessarily even seriously underweight but those with a normal size etc are chastised over their weight nearly as much as those who are obese. You don't see this side of the coin unless you are holding it in your hand. I recall being the one chosen to wear certain outfits for the teenager fashion shows, I recall in nursing school being chosen as the model to demonstrate proper patient positioning(because I wouldn't be insecure about the size of my butt. (Now doesn't that make you insecure for your size to be discussed in front of a classroom?) I recall discussions aimed at me about "fattening me up" I recall discussions made to me in front of my obese cousin about the importance of diet etc. There are times that I have been "caught" eating healthy foods and have been put in a position to justify that. "Why are you eating that, you are so thin?" Imagine that? It is bizarre to me.

I was one of those kids who could put away what I wanted and not worry about weight gain. I ate what I wanted to eat and the rest of the time I was too busy with friends or school activities to be eating. I wasn't dieting, I wasn't consciously under eating in order to control my weight.. thin, it just happened. When food was offered to me I felt compelled to accept it whether full or not, as questions would inevitably creep in about concerns of my health and I found it terribly annoying. The inevitable, "It isn't like you have to worry about your weight."

I see the same in my daughter, always on the thin side, was I concerned? No, what reason would I have to be concerned, she was following her own growth. To look at a growth scale, the standard used in medicine to follow average weight/height for children she always followed 25%. Did 25% make her less of a person? No. I will admit that some (many) parents found these growths as some sort of mark of success. I, with the skinny child would be constantly asked where she lay on the scale. After getting fed up with the, "Well my Tommy is a good eater and is at 95%" comments I would refuse to answer with anything other than, "she is just right."

In my community there are many restaurants but not very many all-you-can-eat buffets. One thing that I have noticed disappear over the years that has been a disappointment to myself is the "salad bar." I always loved a good salad bar. There are many gyms here, they are quite popular, particularly those that are designed as female-only health clubs. The names of those escape me, but the kindness of those clubs is that most of the customers are not those you would think of as gym participants. They are the mildly heavy, the older females, the married, those who feel more comfortable with the privilege of sweating in front of a group of fellow females. We have other health clubs too of course, the YMCA's, Bally's fitness, the big clubs and the tiny ones you will find in your neighborhood strip mall. I would wager that the popularity of the health clubs has much to do with the climate here. Unless you snowshoe, skate or ski, the winter is not a friendly time for outdoor exercise.

In regards to the weight of others affecting me and how I choose to exercise, it has no affect. That is their lifestyle, their choice. I will not invade anyone's life and chastise them for how they live it, if they ask for advice, that is another story. The how's and Why's of someone else's weight is something you would probably never fully graps on unless you lived under their roof, watched them through their struggles and how they managed it. Mental health, yes I do believe that is a part of it whether too thin or too fat. Though I would not place the blame on mental health without the full picture. I don't know that I would want to open the doors to a health club if I was morbidly obese, I would feel like it was too late, I would worry about being mistreated. Has the eating habits of another repulsed me when I was out to eat at a restaurant? No, I am sorry but I keep my nose to myself and the company that I am with. Paying far too much attention to others nearby is just asking for trouble. I do not place myself in a position to change others, a meal is not going to make a vast difference in the life of one. I would never push anyone to overeat, I know what that feels like.

I have known people on both sides of this, the thin and the heavy. I have known heavy people who have become heavy over physical injuries. I have known heavy people who gained weight because of untreated medical conditions. I have also known heavy people who were just following the lifestyle they were born into. Conversely, as far as thin go. People have their reasons, I have only met one that fell into anorexia because of a vanity afflicted lifestyle, the reasons are generally far beneath the surface.

[telekinetic]

Honestly, I view obesity as a behavior problem and anorexia as a mental one. I've known plenty of anorexics and they were all very goal oriented...they wanted to be skinny, so they wouldn't eat. I've never known someone who was obese who was trying to be obese.

This makes the "illnesses" very different to me. I didn't gain 35 lbs this year so far because I'm striving for some unhealthy ideal...I am 250 lbs because I'm too fucking lazy to exercise and eat right, and if I don't do anything to change my lifestyle, this time next year I'll be 300lbs. It will be noones fault but my own, I won't have a mental disorder to blame for it.

Before I get raped for being insensitive in this post, I'm not trying to generalize this to "everyone who is fat is lazy," I am just saying that in my specific case, I am only fat because I am lazy. As soon as I stop being lazy, I will stop being fat.

[Ayashe]

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic

Honestly, I view obesity as a behavior problem and anorexia as a mental one. I've known plenty of anorexics and they were all very goal oriented...they wanted to be skinny, so they wouldn't eat. I've never known someone who was obese who was trying to be obese.

This makes the "illnesses" very different to me. I didn't gain 35 lbs this year so far because I'm striving for some unhealthy ideal...I am 250 lbs because I'm too fucking lazy to exercise and eat right, and if I don't do anything to change my lifestyle, this time next year I'll be 300lbs. It will be noones fault but my own, I won't have a mental disorder to blame for it.

Before I get raped for being insensitive in this post, I'm not trying to generalize this to "everyone who is fat is lazy," I am just saying that in my specific case, I am only fat because I am lazy. As soon as I stop being lazy, I will stop being fat.

I agree with you that people view the disorders differently. I would also say that as there are so many people out there who are obese, when people who are of petite build and of healthy weight they are often approached as though they are underweight. This is a habit that I personally, have grown sick of.

I also have a very strong personal opinion that Medical and Psychological should be treated hand in hand. It would be a frightening thought for someone who is overweight or underweight to have for example, a thyroid disorder or a cancer go untreated because they thought it was in their head. On the other hand, it would be sad to know someone who had severe depression was going untreated because their Medical Doctor felt that it was all diet related and nothing more. If you look into the protocol for a bariatric surgery you would see that for most to become qualified for the procedure a psychiatric exam is required in advance of the procedure.

While you were lazy(your words, not mine) someone else was sexually abused, another grew up where high fat cooking and overindulging was the norm, another had a bad back injury and couldn't keep up with the previous activity level. The list, the reasons go on and on.

[jorgelito]

Originally Posted by Halx

I recently had a discussion with a rather thin and attractive girl about the culture of people who have been forced to clean off their plate at each meal. She was like me, never held to this task. Thus, she eats only what she feels is enough. The end result is a good looking body of normal proportions. Those who DO clean off their plate out of forced habit usually seem to carry more weight than they should. I figure this could be a contributing factor to obesity.

It could be cultural. Western dining style has individual plates of food preportioned. Eastern dining involves taking food from a communal plate and only as much as you need (family style).Most western kids I know are not encouraged to clean off their plate and are very wasteful. They have no dining discipline. It is however, what they eat. Junk food, fatty foods, processed foods etc, all in large quantities.

[Apex Shok]

Originally Posted by jorgelito

It is however, what they eat. Junk food, fatty foods, processed foods etc, all in large quantities.

Exactally! No one ever got fat eating fruits and veggies.

[Halx]

I've met people of many different cultures who have been trained to clean off their plates. In the US, the plates usually contain more crap.

[roachboy]

all of this is too complex for a single thread.

i'll take a shot at some of the elements, but it's no more than that.
anorexia seems to me an anxiety disorder the consequences of which in the long run can be dire enough that it makes sense to see it as a medical disorder through and through, but it seems to have the structure of an anxiety problem---the problem of "getting fat" as a metaphor for loss of control or as a performance of anxiety over loss of control, control then exerted on the body. the danger of "getting fat" is probably associated with the danger of not being desired, which maps pretty directly on not being liked, not being normal, not being some image that you set up for yourself...

the anxiety is probably driven by bizarre-o cultural attitudes toward heavier people, many of which you see in this thread as seems usual when this topic comes up.

everybody's a fucking expert on obesity.
everybody's a fucking expert.
no matter, though--it doesn't matter whether the understandings of and reactions to obesity are rational, what matters is that whatever they are, they're pervasive. i suspect it's one of those adaptive things because we are basically nice adaptive kinda placid creatures who like to like what we are told to like in the way we are told to like it so that way we feel "normal"---and for some reason there is a premium placed on liking things in the way we are told that we should like to like them not only as a kind of collective conformity thing, but also as a grid within which we confuse performing the liking of things in the way we are told we should like to like them with expressions of our "individuality." and not everything we are told that we should like to like in a particular way is told us directly, and so it is in an advertising-saturated environment in the context of which we are continually told that we should like liking commodities in particular ways, it follows that we would also learn to like liking the bodies that are typically arranged near or in those commodities in order to indicate to us that the commodities are desirable and so we come to have pretty powerful associations between the officially sanctioned notions of "desire" and particular body types. there are probably other explanations too, but these boxes are little and one makes choices and that's the one i made.

i don't know what "causes" obesity. there are lots of causes. there are lots of people who are heavier than the norm. i've been quite heavy and am not sure if i entirely understand why it happened, what exactly i did or what my wiring was, but i am pretty sure that if i don't understand it you sure as hell do not understand it. but dont let that stop you, given the amount of fun it seems to be to be quite sure that you know why obesity happens, the amount of fun it seems to be finding reasons to assume that heavy people are less than you or deficient in some moral or self-control kinda way.

obesity has a lot of causes.
it is a medical condition in the way anorexia is in that the consequences of it can be and often are quite dire.
but it doesn't have that tragic air packaged around it for you, so you are not sure how you are supposed to feel about it and so you say whatever.

i find myself getting irritated as i write this, so i'll stop.

[ngdawg]

I see people with bodies so round, I wonder how their legs don't just collapse like sticks...and I then wonder "At what point do you say "fuck it" and allow yourself to get that huge"?
My best friend is on thyroid medication-she's 5'9" and 220 lbs and every pound lost is a major event. She doesn't always eat a lot but at times I have seen her put away enough to feed a couple of teenagers. But now she's working out 4-5 mornings a week and following a meal plan. I want her healthy, regardless of how much she loses and I know that part of that health will come from her feeling good about her efforts.
I have a prejudice against obesity in much the same way ex-smokers hate smokers. I was fat, I lost the weight. Now I've gained half of it again and I understand the lack of motivation, the half-hearted attempts and the disgust at oneself for not trying harder.
But I also understand that there may be mitigating circumstances for some of what we see. A woman I met was quite rotund-in conversation I learned she's a thyroid cancer survivor. Another friend was told by her doctor she would die due to her obesity, but the "cure" almost killed her too-she had her stomach stapled. She's tiny now and happy but almost died to get there.
My cousin was anorexic, starting at the age of 12. Watching what her mother was going thru was painful. Watching my cousin's actions were bewildering and sad. Having had a "control" issue regarding my own mental health, I understand why she was the way she was.

We are quick to judge-it's human nature to draw an instant conclusion to what we only see but don't really know. Being there only makes us have more opinions to another's whys and hows. The truth is, we are not inside their heads. We can just continue on our merry prejudicial way.

[genuinegirly]

Originally Posted by roachboy

... the amount of fun it seems to be finding reasons to assume that heavy people are less than you or deficient in some moral or self-control kinda way...

roachboy, you have given me a lot to think about.

Originally Posted by ngdawg

We are quick to judge-it's human nature to draw an instant conclusion to what we only see but don't really know. Being there only makes us have more opinions to another's whys and hows. The truth is, we are not inside their heads. We can just continue on our merry prejudicial way.

ngdawg, have I told you recently that you're my hero?

Katyanna - I experienced similar situations when I was in high school. My sister as well. We were constantly being told we were too thin, that we didn't have to worry about our figures, that we should eat fatty stuff. Heck, I even had a physician tell me to my face once that I was anorexic and I needed to start eating more. My mom stood up for me and told her that I consume more than most teenage males (I have genetically low cholesterol, they determined. My father and brother as well).

Snowy & Hal - the underlying concept of eating only what you know you need to eat unifies both of your arguments. Such a simple concept.


Thank you, all of you for posting! Your replies have been quite frank and honest. I see I have been exceptionally judgmental and harsh when it comes to obesity. I need to focus more on each person's good qualities. I need to spend more time reflecting on why I'm so bothered by them. I am glad that I started this thread, you have taught me a lot.

[cadre]

Originally Posted by Katyanna

I agree with you that people view the disorders differently. I would also say that as there are so many people out there who are obese, when people who are of petite build and of healthy weight they are often approached as though they are underweight. This is a habit that I personally, have grown sick of.

I, too, hate this habit. People tell me a lot that I'm skinny and I'm lucky, but you know what? Luck has nothing to do with it. I go to the gym every day and I work hard to stay in shape, people who are too lazy to do that aren't unlucky in any way. In addition, I'm not skinny, my BMI is only a bit lower than normal and that again is because of my efforts at the gym. I've got a small build but that's where the "skinny" thing ends for me.

I'm sure this will offend some people but I honestly view both Obesity and Anorexia as fixable problems. Anorexia has more legitimacy in my mind than most cases of obesity. Sloth is not an excuse for obesity and I don't think I should have to be nice about when confronted by negative comments. I think the fact that we've become very accepting of heavier people is a big reason that obesity is more common. I also think that the current uproar about models being too skinny is a good example of this. People who are overweight shouldn't get to choose what's acceptable, I'm sorry, but that's for those who are healthy to decide.

I don't think that anorexia should be acceptable within our society either, but I don't think it's as easy to avoid or control as obesity. Granted there are cases of obesity where there is a medical or mental factor such as is present in anorexia but the overwhelming majority of people are simply lazy.

My biggest issue with obesity is with the people who constantly attack anyone who is at a healthy weight.

[The Faba]

Originally Posted by twistedmosaic

Before I get raped for being insensitive in this post, I'm not trying to generalize this to "everyone who is fat is lazy," I am just saying that in my specific case, I am only fat because I am lazy. As soon as I stop being lazy, I will stop being fat.

I am both fat and lazy.

*Thinks* Maybe he was on to something...

[little_tippler]

I like your thoughts on the issue roachboy.

if people knew why obesity or anorexia happened, I'm sure they would have found a way around the "problem" by now. It's not a clear-cut thing and it's unfortunate that some people find themselves having to deal with either issue.

[Dammitall]

Originally Posted by Halx

I've met people of many different cultures who have been trained to clean off their plates. In the US, the plates usually contain more crap.

Crap like high fructose corn syrup, partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, higher amounts of refined sugar, etc. Some observations on the cultural phenomenon of obesity (in the US):

Time is precious in modern life, now more than ever. We're on the go constantly, to and from work, grabbing food to eat on the way. "Crap food" is made cheap and available with minimal turnaround time in convenient locations for people who feel too rushed to cook meals at home. The lower prices of this immediately available food also make it seem like people are saving more money than they would if they'd bought a week's worth of groceries from the supermarket. Same with processed food: maybe easier to cook out of a box or throw in a microwave than a heap of fresh, unprocessed ingredients, but you pay the price in the quality of what you're eating. I imagine the weight gain resulting from these conditions—and false sense of comfort nurtured by them—makes it all the more difficult to stop this cycle by changing eating and lifestyle habits, and the pounds pile on. It's especially dangerous for children to be starting these patterns out so early on in their lives; they remain a prime (and easy) target for fast food and junk food marketing, despite more recent trends towards healthy alternatives being offered by fast food chains. Finally, throw in the dominant car culture in the US, where non-urban population centers all but require a car to get anywhere (or so people think), and you have less and less activity to offset the food being consumed.

Yes, sometimes overweight and obese people don't feel motivated enough to make a healthy meal or go to the gym and shed some weight. And yes, there are mental and psychological factors that contribute to obesity, like depression and metabolic disorders. But the cultural odds stacked against us in the scenario described above aren't helping to address the overall issue.

[telekinetic]

Originally Posted by spinelust

Yes, sometimes overweight and obese people don't feel motivated enough to make a healthy meal or go to the gym and shed some weight. And yes, there are mental and psychological factors that contribute to obesity, like depression and metabolic disorders. But the cultural odds stacked against us in the scenario described above aren't helping to address the overall issue.

I'm not overweight because the cultural odds are stacked against me. I'm overweight because I don't eat healthy foods and exercise. There is no blame transfer on my part to 'society', it's my fault.

[Jozrael]

This most certainly isn't the case for every overweight person, though. (That they think this way)

[lotsofmagnets]

amen to what roachboy stated, especially

Originally Posted by roachboy

the amount of fun it seems to be finding reasons to assume that heavy people are less than you or deficient in some moral or self-control kinda way.

like a few other people in this thread i also find it very appropriate to gloat about having a technically perfect figure althoug this is in fact due only to genetics rather than any exercise since i do near none. </sarcasm>

[jorgelito]

Originally Posted by little_tippler

I like your thoughts on the issue roachboy.

if people knew why obesity or anorexia happened, I'm sure they would have found a way around the "problem" by now. It's not a clear-cut thing and it's unfortunate that some people find themselves having to deal with either issue.

No, that's just an excuse. Some people are just able to deal with it better than others.

[PonyPotato]

(Answering the questions in the OP)

I don't see anorexia as a response to obesity. It is generally a way to attain control over SOMETHING and as such is a mental disorder.

I m bothered when I see obese people, more so if I am in a tight space. I am motivated to MOVE, yes. I do not live with anyone obese and my parents are overweight but not to an extreme level. My parents eat relatively healthy food, just too much of it. And they move well - they live on a farm.

I have not had the urge to puke while watching someone eat, but I have wanted to push my food away. I think that obesity should be treated as both a physical ailment AND a mental disorder - train the brain not to crave the food and you can eliminate most obesity not caused by physical problems/genetic traits.

I see some connection between gluttony and obesity, but that is not always true. I see a similar connection between gluttony and bulimia.

I am bothered when I see people who are TRULY underweight - i.e. hardly enough meat on their bones to articulate their skeletons. I am sometimes motivated to exercise, but more motivated to talk about it with my boyfriend.

I have never lived with an anorexic or bulimic. My boyfriend is underweight and eats super-healthy and always drinks diet soda, so I do encourage him to take in more calories and actually eat when he's hungry. He does eat a lot, and feels guilty occasionally for the amount he needs to consume so he doesn't waste away, since healthy food can be pretty expensive.

I have never felt the urge to feed a skinny person a big meal.

I do think anorexia should be treated as a medical disorder, specifically a mental one.

I don't see a connection between humility and anorexia. Vanity, maybe, but largely anorexia is a control struggle.

The gyms are pretty popular at some times of day. There are a lot of outdoor things to do around here, as well. I have only seen a handful of all-you-can-eat buffets, and those tend to be ethnic foods. I don't live in town and haven't been here for too long, so I don't notice much of a difference in treatment other than my own perspective.

I also agree with some of the other posters: telling a person of healthy weight that they need to eat more is offensive.

I also agree with spinelust and her perspective that time and money-saving can lead to eating fast food more often than otherwise. Crompsin and I barely have time to go grocery shopping, and then preparing food just becomes "quick, throw these things in a pan and cook them now gogogogogog" because we have so many other responsibilities.

[mathew856]

I'd prefferan obese woman rather than an anorexic one lol

[Sheepy]

I don't think my country is great but Ive read america's population is between 40 and 70% either overweight or obese so i would say obesity is a larger (see what i did there? ) problem and demands the more focus.

[genuinegirly]

Originally Posted by Sheepy

I don't think my country is great but Ive read america's population is between 40 and 70% either overweight or obese so i would say obesity is a larger (see what i did there? ) problem and demands the more focus.

What we seem to have in the US are interesting divides in the population. Clusters of populations with obesity (usually associated with low-income) are interspersed with enclaves of the health-conscious. The two don't seem to interact anywhere near often enough. Peer pressures in healthy enclaves encourage the people there to remain slender. Some states are worse than others - in California, Nevada and Utah I saw more fit individuals than I do in Ohio, but here in Ohio the population in Cleveland appears to have more overweight individuals compared to Cincinnati. I see obesity as a national epidemic that should be dealt with using regional solutions. City, county, and state politics should take the lead on addressing the issue rather than counting on federal top-down approach. It seems that the causes for obesity could be highly regional, unique to the dietary and exercise habits of those local to the area. Families and communities need to work together to encourage healthy eating habits.

The other night I watched an episode of a new show called "Extreme makeover: weight loss edition." The episode focused on a young woman who was morbidly obese (400+lbs) who was a PE teacher for elementary school students. THIS is a problem: choosing people to teach young children how to be fit, who are not fit themselves... how could they ever consider someone like that qualified? No wonder why we have so many issues with obesity. These things make me sick.

[chinese crested]

Personaly - annorexia and bulimia are about control. Its a head problem. You concentrate on weight, on how much water you take - myself I became obsessive with exercise.
Now I am disabled (RTA) and over weight. My best body time was late 30's, and that was cycling, swimming two or three times a day - eating healthily. If I say cycled 15 miles to visit a town down the coast, I could have a big bag of chips on the way back, and still lose a couple of pounds. My body weight at that time was heavier than when annorexic - but as I hadnt been starving, I didnt have that Belsen look - I looked fit and healthy.
What have I learnt? Be glad that your body works. I abused mine and am ashamed of it - at least it was working. Jump streams, climb trees - whatever you enjoy doing, do it because nothing is forever. Ride a horse or a motorbike whilst you can still get your leg over.
Oh yeah. If you are unhappy with the way you look - find a good hairdresser. Dont put your fingers down throat - although in the end you dont need to even do that - you can just hurl on demand. Puking eats your tooth enamel. Cleaning your teeth scrubs the acid into them. How good do you think you will look at your dream size if you have wee black stumpy teeth.
genuine girly - re the obese PE teacher - she was probably hired to fulfill the disabled equality malarky.
(Hey and for some reason I felt I had to edit and put in RTA in case people thought I was disabled because I was fat and not the other way around.)

[mathew856]

right, annorexia and bulimia are head problems, obesity is not so dangerous, some dieting ad exercises can solve the problem esily...

[dlish]

Originally Posted by mathew856

right, annorexia and bulimia are head problems, obesity is not so dangerous, some dieting ad exercises can solve the problem esily...

define dangerous.

how are 'head problems' (which i assume are psychological and mental health issues) more dangerous than the problem of obesity?

how is diabetes less dangerous than head problems? what about hypertension? what about polycystic ovarian syndrome? how is any one of those more or less dangerous than the other? they're not.

i think people seem to bundle obese people in the 'fat - eats too much camp' and underweight people in the 'skinny- starves themselves' camp, which i think is utter bullshit.

both issues have many different factors, that its not easy to define why people under or over eat. Scientifically, both these conditions are diseases that are preventable and curable, but not always successful.

The mental health of both the obese and underweight camps is affected when dealing with these sorts of problems. abuse, self consiousness, self esteem are just some of the mental issues that come into play here. So medical treatment alone is not sufficient without the aid and help of psychologists when seeking treatment. Many times, the patients themselves dont think they have a problem which is the first step to overcome.

interestingly enough, US senators a few months ago passed a bill dealing with eating disorders. So the issue really is bigger than most people think.

U.S. Senators Harkin, Klobuchar, and Franken introduce bill

to confront eating disorders in the U.S.

For Immediate Release
Contact:
David Jaffe
Executive Director, EDC
202-543-9570


(Washington, D.C. - March 3, 2011) - The United States took an important step toward addressing the national emergency of eating disorders when Senators Tom Harkin, Amy Klobuchar, and Al Franken introduced the Federal Response to Eliminate Eating Disorders (FREED) Act today.


“The FREED Act is the first legislative effort in the history of the Senate to comprehensively confront the seriousness and deadly threat of eating disorders in the United States. We are proud to have Senators Harkin, Klobuchar and Franken champion our cause,” said Jeanine Cogan, Policy Director of the Eating Disorders Coalition.


A coordinated national response like the FREED Act can help the millions of Americans suffering (and, too often, dying) from eating disorders.

“It has been ten years since anorexia killed my daughter Anna,” said EDC Board Member Kitty Westin. “And eating disorders have killed thousands of Americans since then. It’s time for Congress to pass the FREED Act as a critical first step in addressing this national emergency.”


Eating disorders do not discriminate: men and women, all economic classes, old and young are affected. Sadly, eating disorders even touch young children. According to a recent report in the December issue of PEDIATRICS, Official Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, hospitalizations for children with eating disorders under age 12 increased by a shocking 119% for the years 1999 to 2006.


The FREED Act would fund much needed research to better understand eating disorders and provides solutions for prevention, education, screening, diagnosis and treatment. Among other things, the legislation would fund grants to conduct research on treatment efficacy, train health professionals and school personnel to identify and respond to eating disorders, and build on existing reform efforts to ensure that treatment is available to those who need it.


Ten months ago, two days before she was to join the Eating Disorders Coalition citizen lobbying effort on Capitol Hill, a young woman from Pennsylvania named Nicole died in her sleep from her eating disorder. Nicole’s mother sadly states, “If the FREED Act was in place, I might still have my daughter with me today.” Nicole’s aunt, Wendy Bloom, added, “The FREED Act will stop the endless pain for millions of people. It will allow treatment for a disease without the fear of not completing their treatment because their insurance doesn't cover it. It will end the torment and pain of another mother burying her child because she couldn't afford treatment.”


About the EDC
The Eating Disorders Coalition for Research, Policy & Action is working in Washington, D.C., to increase awareness, educate policymakers, and promote understanding about the disabling and life-threatening effects of eating disorders. Our mission is to advance the federal recognition of eating disorders as a public health priority. Eating Disorders Coaltion for Research, Policy & Action

[Mathilda]

My first memory of being fat is from when 4 years old.
The girl next door had a pretty dress and I wanted one. My mum said I couldn't have one because I was too fat and it wouldn't look good on me.
For the first seven years I was pretty much raised by my grandmother, who still to this day (93) hasn't ever weighed 100 lbs. Yes, everything was home cooked, most of it grown in the garden. So what the hell happened?

My dad is fat (and so is most of his side of the family), my mum is skinny.
The reason my grandmother looked after me was that my mum went back to work when I was 3 months old. She worked pretty close to home and my gran would take me there so she could breastfeed me on her lunch break. Did that make the strong association in my mind that food = comfort & safety? I don't know.
From 8 years onwards, I was self sufficient enough to wake up for school, make my own breakfast (wake up my parents when I left), get my own snack when I got home from school. Bread with cheese. That was my staple.
Yes I walked or cycled to school, went ice skating in the winter, swimming in the summer, roaming in the forests, but also read a lot of books. And yes, I was fat all through that.

I'm one of those disgusting people who take up too much space.
I'm very aware of that.
I do what I can to avoid public transport, so people don't have to sit next to me.
I don't go to restaurants, so they don't have to see me eat. If I have to eat in front of other people, you can be 100% sure it will be a salad. And that's fine, I like salads.
I don't go to the movies, theatres, shows, park...
I only go to shops when I absolutely have to, I hate people looking at me.
Luckily I hate shopping anyway.

I get it, I should exercise, but can you imagine the horror of having to work out next to me in a gym. Don't worry, I won't happen. I don't know if you can, but I can see the look that would be on your face if I did.
Doesn't have to a gym, just go for a walk. Same self conciousness meets me there.
I know, just ignore it, it's not important. Easy, isn't it.
I'd rather give speech for an audience of hundreds than go to a gym, because that would be less terrifying. Would you?

So you go to the gym five times a week, that makes you a better person than me.
Sure.
Why do you go?
Do you hate it every time?
Or maybe it makes you feel good?
Sure, some days it's difficult to motivate yourself, but you always feel so much better afterwards.
Guess what, I don't.

I don't drink, I don't do drugs. Does that make a better person than the one who gets drunk every weekend or smokes weed couple of times a week? No, it doesn't. Those things just don't give me any pleasure, I don't enjoy them, so I don't do them.

So what do I eat?
Salad for lunch, home cooked dinner.
And bread and cheese. Sometimes cinnamon buns, sometimes ice cream. That's about it. I don't eat huge portions. It's that bread and cheese. Couple of times a day when I shouldn't. When I get home from work, when everybody else has gone to bed. That's enough.

I know how to lose weight.
Eat less, exercise more.
I've lost about 50 pounds three times in my life.
And then I can't do it any longer and it comes back.

Why do I eat?
It gives me pleasure, it's a way of looking after myself. Not a good one, I know.
I eat when I'm tired, or bored, or depressed.
It's an addiction.
After about three hours of not eating anything, I find myself staring at a kitchen cupboard, it's like I'm in a trance.
Sometimes I'll walk away, sometimes I just get a drink (diet soda), sometimes I'll get an apple but probably 25% of time I'll get a cheese sandwich.
Giving up smoking is easy compared to losing weight. For me anyway.

At the same time I like how being fat makes me unsexual.
Nobody flirts with me, objectifies me. I'm treated as a person, not a piece of flesh. I know I won't be raped walking home after dark. I won't be sexually harassed at work.
Even more importantly, it makes sure that I don't make a complete idiot out myself by flirting with people, trying to shag everything that moves. I know my place.

What I'm very happy about is that I seem to have managed to raise my kids without a weird relationship to food. They are normal weight, don't use food for comfort or control.

[chinese crested]

Mathilda - you would be more than welcome in our disabled swimming lessons/sessions. We all know and accept that all of us have different differences. Its done me good to get out there and at least try, slow walks with the dogs werent exactly groundbreaking when it comes to getting fit. I miss my old working body. I would be lying if I didnt admit to myself, that were it all still working, I still would be criticising myself as to how I look. You wouldnt want me next to you at the gym Mathilda - I have a tendancy to fall. You get in enough pain, and you realy dont give a shit. I would rather be lighter, because being overweight in surgery is a few grains added to the death side of the scales. I could also benefit from a decent haircut to be honest - but thats the price of a vet consult and a course of antibiotics. When I came out of head surgery I slurred that I must look like Divine - Oh no dear, I was told, youre not that glam - you look more like Sideshow Bob. I cut the other side back to even it up - frightened that if I went to a hairdresser and had my hair washed, my skull might just slide off.
Your weight isnt what you judge yourself by is it luvvie? What came through to me was despite everything - you have raised healthy well balanced children - no easy feat. I am pretty sure that I would enjoy a stroll and a natter with you if we happened into each other dogwalking in the woods.

[Mathilda]

Damn you chinese crested for making me cry with your sweetness.

[chinese crested]

Pity you are so far away. I just heard of a five year old labrador that has been abandoned - very unusual dog, he is a trained and up till recently working sniffer dog. His owner/handler kept him at a kennels, picked him up for work, bought him back - then just stopped coming. When the owner of kennels - in her eighties - contacted him, he said he didnt want the dog any more and she could re-home it. Poor dog is going stir crazy - he is used to being out working. When I think of that poor dog in the kennel, waiting and waiting, I think of the bond between man and dog, between Liam Tasker and his dog Theo, who died of a broken heart at the death of his master - they have feelings, when you work a dog, a bond is built.
The chap who dumped that poor dog, him I would put in the realy ugly category of people. Sadly, there is also a truly hidious group out there, and this chap is merely very ugly by comparison. See Mathilda - you are up the pretty end of the pool.
I guess we are all guilty of judging people sometimes.