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This just in: Women are just as shallow as men.

This just in: Women are just as shallow as men.

Well Duh!

http://www.askmen.com/dating/doclove...ip_expert.html

Quote:

Hi Doc,

I subscribed to one of those Internet dating services and posted my photo, along with a fairly comprehensive personality profile of myself. After getting no real action for some time, I decided to run a test. Yes, Doc, I did the morally reprehensible thing and substituted a photo of a much better-looking man for my own.

The results were alarming. A number of women immediately responded with some of the real "lookers" proclaiming their love, even after the exchange of only a few lines of text. Never in my regular life as a decent, honest, and hardworking man had I ever received such attention. It shook me to the core of my being like nothing else.

Such love was freely offered to the better-looking man. Funny that he had the same personality as me. I guess that doesn't matter though. Anyway, I'd be very interested in any thoughts you might have about all this, Doc.

Kenneth -- who thinks it's all pretty unfair

doc love's answer

Howdy Kenneth,

Your experience reminds me of that of another one of my students. Let's call him Bill. Bill is an average-looking guy. On a scale of one to 10, most women would probably give him a seven, at best. But as far as personality goes, Bill is a 10. He's very intelligent, funny as hell and a genuinely good-hearted guy.

Every Sunday, Bill goes to a non-denominational Science of Mind type church in L.A. This particular church has a very charismatic minister and a kick-ass choir that is always accompanied by a rhythm section of world-class studio musicians. It's a very hip, happening kind of scene with a certain edge of glamour to it. Most Sundays you will find two or three celebrities in attendance among a congregation of several hundred people.

babes abound to pray

As you might expect with such a scenario, the place is stocked with an abundance of babes. But even though these girls are spiritually oriented, they've still got a bit of that L.A. "attitude" thing going on.

They tend to be somewhat guarded and standoffish when guys try to connect with them. Many of the most attractive women there leave as soon as the service is over rather than stay for coffee, muffins and socializing, during which they might have to deal with grabby guys who want a "friendly" post-service hug from them.

bill had the spirit

Now Bill attends these services, primarily for the inspirational and spiritual benefits that he derives. But naturally, he's not oblivious to the potential there for meeting women.

The thing is, however, that even though he's been a member of the congregation for over a year and a half, he has never gone out on a date with one woman that he's met at his church.

He's had nice conversations with several women there that he's gotten to know over time, but he's never gotten any romantic buying signals from any of them.

then lance came along

One day, not too long ago, Bill brought his friend Lance to church with him. Lance, who had never been there before, is about 6'2" with long, thick hair down to his shoulders. He looks like a Viking king who now earns his living doing Calvin Klein underwear advertisements.

After the service that day, Bill asked Lance if he enjoyed his experience there. Lance said to Bill, "Yeah, the minister is great and I loved the music. But what's with the women here? They're so aggressive! I've been hit on three times since I got here. One girl wouldn't let me go until I wrote down her phone number!"

Yes, Lance was complaining. Moments later, one of the real beauties of the congregation who had never even smiled at Bill once since he'd been going there, walked right up to Lance and said, "Hi! Are you new here?" As you might imagine, Bill's mouth dropped open in disbelief.

that's how it feels

So, Kenneth, both you and Bill had similar experiences, and both of you had similar responses to it: utter shock. Why? Because the behavior of these women was completely contrary to the values that the sisterhood of womenfolk espouses.

When asked about what qualities are most important in a potential mate, most women will tell you that a sense of humor and intelligence are at the top of the list. And according to the majority of women, it's men who care most about how a woman looks and least about her personality.

But as every good student of "The System" knows; in order to get to the truth, we look at people's actions primarily, rather than their words. And in this case, here's the obvious conclusion that we must arrive at: Women are motivated by looks just as much as men are, regardless of what they say.

They overlook personality in favor of physical appearance, exactly as men do. Women's shaming of men for being looks-obsessed is a bunch of hypocritical hogwash.

what does the average ken do?

All right, Kenneth, so how does an average-looking guy deal with all this? Yes, it's easy to feel bitter and frustrated. It's easy to feel resentful, but none of that is helpful.

If you, Kenneth, had the face and body of Bill's friend Lance, then you'd have legions of beautiful women coming after you. But you don't, and you will never get the kind of attention from women that Lance does.

That's reality, so don't fight it. You are who you are and you have to work with the cards that God dealt you.

put the pic back

If you're going to continue using Internet dating services as a resource for meeting women, then you should, of course, put your own real photo back with your profile.

Have some of your friends and family give you some objective feedback about the picture that you were using. Does it represent you at your best, or is it of poor quality?

It's always best to have a professional shoot your photo for you. With a better photo of yourself, you may start getting a measurably improved response rate.

If changing your photo doesn't help, then the Internet just ain't your niche. You have to find your niche. It may be Sierra Club hikes, dance classes or psychic fairs where the women outnumber men five to one. Just keep swinging, Kenneth, till you get a hit.

Remember guys; you have do the best you can with what you've got.

Of course this will come as no surprise to most men. But I wonder, do women realise that they are being so overtly hypocritical when they chastise men for being so "obsessed" with how a woman looks? Not that I'm acussing anyone on here, but I know many women that do make such claims.

very true.
i don't really have a problem with men being obsessed with womens' looks, though. its not like a guy can yell "WOW, SHE HAS A NICE PERSONALITY!" when he first sees her. its impossible to tell. you have to go by your first impression.

heh.

this is so true that it's sad.

Thanks for posting this.

Sad? Why? Most people are pretty visual and it's a little unfair to judge someone else for being so, or even acting on it. I say kudos to those who know what they like and go after it instead of settling for something that really doesn't satisfy them in the name of more p.c. appearances. This has meant, over the years, that women I liked weren't interested in me. Oh well.

It's only the hypocrisy that gets to me... those who say it doesn't matter because they think that's how they're supposed to act when it really does matter to them. Most people grow out of that eventually anyway...

Where do they find the time to do that when I have them ironing my shirt all day? Ho, ho, I kid. But look at this:

<img src="http://www.ehowa.com/pic_b/masterssign.jpg">

Ah, ah, ah. 1, 1 male chauvenist pig.

This just in. Women are MORE shallow than men.

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
<img src="http://www.ehowa.com/pic_b/masterssign.jpg">

I'm all for equality and all that bollocks, but I wonder just how many of these women would actually play on this golf course were they allowed, and how many of them are there just to kick up a stink? hmmmm?

Anyway, not to be misinterpreted, I didn't mean to say that there is anything wrong with women seeking out a good looking lad. My point is, that they wouldn't claim to be doing so. Check out the "What Women Want" thread and you'll see what I mean. Top of the list nearly all the time is "sense of humor", "intelligence", "understands me", "can communicate with me", etc etc etc. At least a guy will be honest, and out in the open when he has top of his list: "pretty face and a killer body".

My take on this issue....men and women are both the same. Period. We BOTH like to say that it's the intelligence, humor, wit, etc etc of a person we are attracted to. Which is, ultimately, true in both cases. BUT....(here's the biggie) both sexes (I believe) also need that "mmmmm....nummy" part of it.
We all know it...that little gut-wrenching feeling you get when you look at someone and go ga-ga. It's the click, the zap, it's the chemistry.
As in all other ways, men and women are the same. There are different stereotypes we both have to deal with, the same types of peer pressure...etc. We are HUMAN. End of story!
Are you going to run into shallow women who only want to hang on to the arm of some jock...yes, yes you are. Are you also going to find some jock who just wants a trophey girl....yes, yes you are. Does that make one worse than the other? Nope.
I would like to say that it's only the inside of a person that matters.....as far as my life-mate....I also hope he gives me that "mmmmmmm I want to do you now" feeling when I see him....I want the goosebumps....the sexual attraction. Men do too. See...we are all the same!

Quote:

Originally posted by CSflim
I'm all for equality and all that bollocks, but I wonder just how many of these women would actually play on this golf course were they allowed, and how many of them are there just to kick up a stink? hmmmm?

Anyway, not to be misinterpreted, I didn't mean to say that there is anything wrong with women seeking out a good looking lad. My point is, that they wouldn't claim to be doing so. Check out the "What Women Want" thread and you'll see what I mean. Top of the list nearly all the time is "sense of humor", "intelligence", "understands me", "can communicate with me", etc etc etc. At least a guy will be honest, and out in the open when he has top of his list: "pretty face and a killer body".

Noone in that picture looks like they even play golf in general. Iron my damn shirt!

The same, but different.

Women have their faults just like men.
Why? Because they are human.

They can be shallow, they can use people, they do lie, and they abuse themselves at times
They can be just as selfish as anyone.
No one is perfect, or better

Don’t place them on a pedestal,
Treat them as anyone else.
As equals.
Judge them by their actions, not words.

In my opinion, women behave far more badly amongst themselves then they do with the opposite sex.

I am always amazed at the uproar over some beer commercials, some advertising designed for men. Have you ever seen women's magazines? They instruct women on how to be shallow.

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
Noone in that picture looks like they even play golf in general. Iron my damn shirt!

:lol: :lol: That's too damn funny! I'll second that. I have a few shirts that need ironed.

We're all human.. and for a good example just goto the school ground and see how many of the girls hang out with the good lookers.. and then look at your average joe bloke like me...

okay whike I am a woman and agree that women can be heartless and shallow, I will here and now state that we use it differently than men.
I for one appreciate a good looking man but i would never degrate him in front of friends like you guys do! We dontr say stuff like oooooh look at his bulge its kinda small or betcha he's easy (even though we know u are)!! ya'll tend to get in a group and look at us like a fresh piece of steak ready for devouring! HELL YES we look but we tend to make sexual choices based on how you act! AND YES guys we do just have a one night stand but we are atleast honest about it instead of saying bullshit we dont mean just to get in your pants!!

Yup, everyone here seems to know what they're talking about. I think it's just part of that Darwinistic thing... weeding out the ugly people, and such. Besides, human beings cannot live without daily struggles. What would life be like with no struggles? How would we all be different if we were all really good-looking? Good-looking people would become the norm and they wouldn't stand out anymore. Every day something always reaffirms my reason for wanting to stay celibate for the rest of my life... "love" is pure bullshit :thumbsup:

Quote:

Originally posted by crayzeeredhead
okay whike I am a woman and agree that women can be heartless and shallow, I will here and now state that we use it differently than men.
I for one appreciate a good looking man but i would never degrate him in front of friends like you guys do! We dontr say stuff like oooooh look at his bulge its kinda small or betcha he's easy (even though we know u are)!! ya'll tend to get in a group and look at us like a fresh piece of steak ready for devouring! HELL YES we look but we tend to make sexual choices based on how you act! AND YES guys we do just have a one night stand but we are atleast honest about it instead of saying bullshit we dont mean just to get in your pants!!

We may be pigs, but at least we won't take everything a woman owns. We just want pussy! We don't want to ruin lives.

http://www.boomspeed.com/sixate/evilgirls.jpg

girls=evil

:P
true that!

DUH!

but that makes the really good ones, better :)

<quote>Of course this will come as no surprise to most men. But I wonder, do women realise that they are being so overtly hypocritical when they chastise men for being so "obsessed" with how a woman looks? Not that I'm acussing anyone on here, but I know many women that do make such claims.</quote>

I'm sure that a good percentage of women don't realize their obvious hypocrisy. However, for those who do, they don't give a shit because they know that <i>women can get away with it!</i>

You see, women are in far higher demand than men, naturally, and so they always have the upper hand. Ahh well.

Quote:

I beg to differ on your arguements:
* Obviously you haven't been on the other side of a rejection from a woman, especially in front of her friends
I'm sure many men can attest to the fact that they have degrated several times in their past. (you win some, you lose some)
* And yes, ladies can too look at a man as a piece of meat.
The only difference I've seen, is that men tend to exaggerate or generalize, and women get down to the details
* No, I've seen women many times make their decisions according purely for looks, not for personality.
* And no, women are not honest about one-night stands,
they lie or deflect all the time (even to themselves),
due to the fact they want to keep their rep & sense of self-worth.
* And yes they bullshit just like anyone else to get what they want,
and bullshit to get out of it, if they have changed their minds.

Let's not be hypocrites here
Let's face facts, about your gender, your friends & yourself.
And while YOU may be an exception,
there are more than enough women out there that are being bad seeds
that you can't make general statements like that
about men or women.

Human are humans
There are good, there are bad
And there are also basically good people sometimes doing good or selfish things.

So let's not go pointing fingers.

Quote:

Originally posted by rogue49
I beg to differ on your arguements:
* Obviously you haven't been on the other side of a rejection from a woman, especially in front of her friends
I'm sure many men can attest to the fact that they have degrated several times in their past. (you win some, you lose some)
* And yes, ladies can too look at a man as a piece of meat.
The only difference I've seen, is that men tend to exaggerate or generalize, and women get down to the details
* No, I've seen women many times make their decisions according purely for looks, not for personality.
* And no, women are not honest about one-night stands,
they lie or deflect all the time (even to themselves),
due to the fact they want to keep their rep & sense of self-worth.
* And yes they bullshit just like anyone else to get what they want,
and bullshit to get out of it, if they have changed their minds.

NOW guys no where in my reply to this did i say ALL women where like me. I personally don't do any of the things listed here. Yes, women can be heartless when it comes to rejecting the opposite sex. They also are very vindictive in divorce. But by no means does thst mean those type of women don't have a reason behind their actions, just as men have a reason behind theirs.
Yes, women take it all from a guy but, more timess then not there are the men who leave a women A. for a younger model, B. with nothing after she clened your house, cooked for you, raised your kids, helped you go through school, after you got the great, good paying job. then you men walk away almost never pay child support. Yet here most of ya'll are wondering why we women are heartless. well, you guys made us what we are and women made made what they are. vicious cycle. do any of you blame us?

Putting women on a pedestal is one of this societies (at least the heterosexual male side, the female side seems to have no such problem) problem.
You Americans have a great expression for this: "Like their shit don't stink".
Truth is, we are all just the shit of the universe, we are stupid, ignorant and infectious human waste.
Everyone should just let go of their precious ego.

Or maybe I read Fight Club one time too much.... lol

Shock horror! Women human too!

Unfortunately you just have to deal with what's handed down to you, and in our society looks matter more than personality... at least in a forum such as internet dating.

I can honestly say that I've come up against this in the past. I'm well-educated, I've got a good, steady job, I'm not addicted to crack or beer, I'm not violent, I'm funny, and I am ready to satisfy all sexual demands at any time of the day or night. My ex-girlfriend regularly used to tell me I was the sweetest man she'd met.

My problem? I'm 5 feet tall. Can I get a woman to look at me as a potential mate? Can I fuck. Even when I get the opportunity to show them what a great guy I am, they still never think of me 'in those terms' because there's always some 6 foot tall wifebeater over the way who they'd much rather fuck.

I'm not bitter, but I wish I could make it all out.

SOME women are just as shallow as SOME men. I don't think everyone is shallow or selfish in their desires to be with someone that is attractive to them.

Someone may look hot and sexy now but how about 10 yrs down the road? Looks are a passing thing and I've always made my decisions on who I date by that. There are so many sexy men out there but not often can you find the whole package of sexy and smart. I'd rather find the intelligent man, full of humor and charm than an Adonnis that doesn't have a brain in his head or can't count to 10.

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
We may be pigs, but at least we won't take everything a woman owns. We just want pussy! We don't want to ruin lives.

http://www.boomspeed.com/sixate/evilgirls.jpg

great pic, and honestly couldn't agree with you more sixate. Men may be equally shallow, but we're far less vicious than most women are. Our motives are pure--purely sexual ;)

Being a man, it is hard to have an objective view on the subject.

But if I take myself out of the picture, and just look at people that I know, it seems that women in general are a lot more deceitfull than men. A lot of men are bigger slobs, but a lot of women just don't tell the truth. Which, IMO, is shallow.

They tell more half-truths, more little-white-lies, more shakes of the ass and bats of the eye simply to get what they want. They are fully aware of what they are doing and they know it will work.

To hell with the people they hurt, because they can always just go get more. 'Cause they're women, and that's how it works.

Guys keep putting up with it in the hope that they will meet a real one someday. Someone who hasn't been molded by greediness and society's idea of what they should be and other people's opinion of them. Someone who says what they mean and means what they say.

Of course not all women act like this...All bikers aren't violent. All lawyers aren't dishonest. All men don't masturbate. All porn stars don't take it up the butt.

...but most of them do.

Quote:

Originally posted by rat
Our motives are pure--purely sexual ;)

haha well... yea :D

About that picture...

Girls require time AND money. Not time TIMES money, time AND money. Therefore, someone needs to learn math.

Regarding the thread now: Big fucking surprise. Is there anyone who wasn't aware of this? I doubt it. I like what Minx said, too.

Women and Men are different.
In most tribal societies, the men took care of hunting and fighting. The women took care of the household, and the torture of prisoners.

Men = Brutal
Women = Cruel

Hey, we kind of suit each other.

Yep. People care about looks.

Solution: Look like the physical traits you admire (in your own gender.) If you're a man, and you think big arms are manly, get them. If you're a woman, and you think small perky tits are where it's at, go for it.

Be what you'd like people to admire.

Afterthought : This post in a sense leaves transgendered people out, except that they seem to have things under control in terms of becoming what they admire.

no! what?!!? no way!!

btw: gaaahh!! pop ups!!

All humans are programmed to search for a mate. This mate should be healthy, capable of taking care of him/herself, caring enough to raise children and be almost perfectly symmetrical in physical features.

Women prefer men who are taller, more muscular because of the past ways of living which required a tall and large man to be intimidating and scare off rivals as well as predators. Women also prefer men with a head that has its length and width proportional to the golden ratio or something like that.

Men prefer women with a certain hip to waist ratio, that ratio has been changing over the centuries. More generally, men like women who are shorter (because tall means intimidating) and have good size hips for childbearing.

Quote:

Originally posted by BBtB
Amen, brother.

heh

Askmen.com is an excelent resource, its never steared me wrong the only thing i don't like about it is how it constantly trys to stear men toward being "players" You can miss out on some really great emotional clarity if you don't offer yourself out there for love a once in a while.

Then again getting it on with diffrent girls a few times a week ( avoiding STDs ) and hanging out with the guys would be the shit.

In all of this post I have never heard nor seen one not ONE where any ones says BE YOURSELF!! IMO if your cant be who u are wiht soemone dont be with them!! Also ..... If your cant be honest with your mate or whatever then you dont need to be with him !!
I am very caring and not vindictive or mean but I will not let myself be walked all over either!! So yes SOME women can be heartless etc but I know I AM NOT!!

Really..no way! *end sarcasm*

Most women and men are shallow. We should all at least admit it. But if you don't then you may one day find an article on TFP portraying one of worst character traits!

Quote:

Originally posted by crayzeeredhead
In all of this post I have never heard nor seen one not ONE where any ones says BE YOURSELF!! (snip)

What the hell is "yourself" exactly?

You as a person change all the time, and somebody has the nerve to tell you to be yourself, what a world.

You can't be yourself to get what you want, and you have to wonder who you are in the first place. So who are you?

You are the result of your experiences fed through your physical being, your system (maybe thats subject to debate but I think it's a strong premise to go by). So if you have certain desires why is it wrong to manipulate your experiences and actions in order to get what you want?

"Be yourself" will never produce results, let's not squander about that.

It's just too standardized y'know? Not all women are one way, neither all are men.

Actually, I hate to say this, but at one time i tried putting up a fake ad on lavalife using a photo of a male model cropped from some website. (Sorry buddy.)

I made the guy fairly shallow, his grammar terrible (not that mine is any hell.) I also made him a smoker, and talk quite a bit about "clubbing" in the ad. I used tems like "ladies" which i think is derogatory, etc, etc. He was not a "nice" guy" to say the least.

I never worked the ad, that is to say, i didn't send out any smiles or messages, just sat around to see what would happen.

And guess what, he got mail, and hits. Quite a few actually. When i set his income level to $75,000 plus, the hits soared.

I would respond to the letters and even took it a step further saying that he was married. Guess what.

Him being married only threw off maybe 25% or 30% of the women. The rest still wanted to meet this guy, or confessed that they already had a boyfriend and were "seeing what's out there", didn't think that their current boyfriends were "the one", or their "soulmates" Blah blah blah.

That experience left quite an impression with me.