Condescension in debate
 

So i'm pretty new to the whole online forum community, but for the most part, the people who end up sticking around for the long time are the folk who know how to disagree with manners and politeness. What really stuck me as interesting though, is the evolution of insulting people on a forum. I'm not saying either way whether it should be allowed or not. the two most commonly used forms of condescension in TFP (that i've noticed anyways) are:

amusement: "haha, i think people who think that [your beliefs] are amusing because they don't know what they're talking about"

and pity: "wow, i'm sorry that you actually think [you beliefs] maybe one day you'll know better"

but to me this is all just as insulting and its not slick at all. its people who want to seem smart, trying to insult in a smart manner, but when dumb people like me still catch on, its frusterating. why does TFP think people do that on internet forums or even in real life for that matter?

Wow, I'm sorry that you think that condescension during a debate is insulting and not slick at all. Maybe one day you'll know better.





...in my defense, that had to be done.

^ I like this guy.

I try to be more subtle with my condescension. Though lately, I've been trying to avoid it altogether. It gets in the way of discussion.

<-- generally female (but thanks)

poetry you have found the right forum to be on

uhhh, I meant it in the vague, non-gender-specific way. uh. yeah. sorry.

Filtherton doesn't know me in real life. So I can pretend to be smarter than him even though I'm probably not.

....On the internet, no one knows you're a dog.

Thus, that is why I think insults are easier to hurl on the internet. Besides. I get to sharpen my otherwise dull wit.

For some reason it's hard for me to read the title as anything other than condensation. And I have no beef in any condensation debate, but I do like the kind that forms on a cool glass on a warm summer evening and I do not like the kind that seems like toast sweat on the bottom of a plate.

As for your actual point, I think written interactions cut out the uncomfortable feelings most people have. So it's easier to be short or rude. In any case, it's rather hard to argue a point in an open forum, it will become combative. So as a rule I usually take very little of what is written online as being serious.

One day you'll learn to enjoy sweatty toast. On that day, you'll finally be an adult.

Condencending condensation. Had to be done.

You only say that because you don't know what you're talking about.

I seriously had my mouse pointer over the "report post" for your post. That's how seriously BAD that joke was. BAD JAZZ BAD.

If I wouldn't had gotten in trouble for misusing the "report post" button, I would had.

*****

Sarcasm and condensation will never go away as it is used by most to throw a backdoor insult at a person when they have nothing better to say.

Then again I use sarcasm and condensation on a daily basis, so I'm going to end my post before anyone gets their panties in a wad. Some people just can't take a joke, even with lube.

//notafunnypostbutIgotnothing

hobbit is my hero...

He's my bosom buddy.

Don't be hater because I got to it first. You're no better than me.

/uncondecension

well my problem is i made this character here named roachboy and he's kind of an asshole.
so people assume he's being condescending even when he's not.
i know he's not because i make the sentences that cause him to be his usual asshole self.
of course there are some thing that roachboy has a problem with.
reactionaries, for example. he wants to eat their bones.
as a human being, i personally don't care that much about reactionaries.
but roachboy---he's got a bit of a Problem with them.

it's hard to break character.
even when you do it, no-one believes you.
like now, i wager that there are going to be people posting after this who are going to not believe that i am not roachboy.
and they don't like roachboy because, well, he's a bit of an asshole.

the other problem is that he's not wrong about some things.
there is, in fact, no reason at all to take conservatives seriously.
and there are, in fact, meds that help with nationalism disorders--you know, those fucked up psychological conditions that enable you to imagine that such things exist and that you are part of one of them.
and that we live in the pathetic twilight of a fading empire.

but these are ugly things so its easier to assume that roachboy is an asshole.
which is true, but independently of those things.
they operate in a kind of transcendence.

as for condescension, it's really a matter of style.
not everyone has it.
it's a pity.
but i digress.

"Greatness is a rarefied air one must be taught to breathe." - Lionel Luthor

I try not to be condescending.

But it's so damn tempting!

I wanted to chuckle with mild, amused disdain at roachboy's post. Then I realized that actually he didn't deserve such an offhand dismissal of his carefully crafted conversation, but I did secretly wish he wouldn't expose his shortcomings with such, well, purblind innocence.

Then I caught a glimpse, just a glimpse mind you, of some pulsing glory like unto the Northern Lights, only involving ideas, words, and framing of thoughts in the interwebz media. So I chuckled at myself, and with a bit of self pity decided to just let it be.

sigh

condescension means you care.
don't take it personal.

DragonBall Z announcer voice...
was that roachboy talking or his "alter ego"? Is roachboy the personality in charge or is it whoever is on the other side of the telephone line? how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

all of these questions answered... next time... on TFP!!!

Yeah, I always get pulled into it and end up erasing my try-to-talk-smart posts like a guy trying to play off having a giant wet spot on his crotch after leaving the bathroom. We've got some awesome dispensers of condescension here. That shit is their whole life and they've turned it into an artform.

That comment about medications to help deal with nationalism made me laugh out loud. I never considered it from a biological sense; I always figured radical nationalism was a form of memetic poison.

Regardless, the construction of alternate personas that act differently than their puppet master is not unusual in an online environment. I can't count the number of times I've heard Second Life users describe their avatar's personality as being different from their own - and their alt account's personality being different from that one, too.

---

Now, then. The truth is, from what little I've seen of this community, it's actually a lot less condescending (and a lot more open) than other internet communities I've been in. That's part of why I decided to post here in the first place.

You guys talk too much.

I can drink to that.

i dont buy it. Tyler Durden is still too fresh in everyone's minds for teenage potheads and movie buffs to stop thinking its cool. since the internet is still largely anonymous, too many people want to be the edgy "i know which me is the real me, but do you?" reputation, and for all of us two-finger typers know out there, this is perfectly realistic because people wouldn't lie on the internet to make themselves look cooler. just take the kids from the "motherfuckin popsicles" picture (google image search it if you dont know). They're actually that gangster... right?

roach i'm not saying this is you, but i wouldn't be surprised if it was. blame brad pitt, ed norton, and people with low self esteem

/threadjack

This might be attributed to an adaptive behavior/coping mechanism that evolves over time in order to express disagreement with something without making it overly personal/trolling. In other words, someone posts something, someone strongly disagrees, but doesn't want to suffer the wrath of the mighty ban-hammer, and finds other ways to convey their message without channeling the esteemed R. Lee Ermey in Full Metal Jacket, prior to, and leading up to "You are in a world of shit."

This thread's officially over my head now.

*logs off TFP, turns on TV to watch "Ow My Balls"*

As someone who's shaken the hand that types half of roachboy's existence, I get it. And I acknowledge the difference. I address him by his real name when it comes to staff decisions because that's the guy who's opinion matters. roachboy doesn't have much say behind the scenes - the puppetmaster does, though.

Most of the folks that have met me IRL will probably say that I'm different here than 3D. There are two that will swear to it.

Of course you are, Jazz. The medium almost demands it.

When you give someone a mode of interaction like ours, where one can proof read and edit and come back three hours later with the perfect pithy one liner and where there are few negative consequences to being an asshole, that person is going to present themselves differently. Eventually, if these changes form a consistent framework, you end up with a different persona altogether. It's not necessarily a conscious thing, but more just a consequence of the forum style if interaction. Perhaps all online interaction.

Condescension as a rhetorical device stems from certainty -- every idiot knows that. And it's easy to be sure of what you're saying when you've got Wikipedia at your fingertips and time to look it up beforehand.

Wikipedia is handy when you are debating facts, but that is something that I rarely do. When I am debating something it's usually on a philosophical basis and it is always something that is important to me. I never argue for the sake of arguing or simply to get under someone's skin. Meaning, if someone finds themselves in an argument with me, they can be sure that I am arguing from the heart - that the point I am making is not just an opinion that I threw out there carelessly, but a deeply-rooted ideal. Therefore, whenever I argue a point I mean well, not harm.

The flip-side of the coin is that other people's arguments that diverge greatly from my own (due to the personal nature of my ideals) are sometimes offensive to me. Therefore my rebuttals can sometimes be (or seem) condescending. Sometimes I'm even an asshole, but I don't apologize for it. As far as I'm concerned, if you are not prepared to put the weight of your convictions behind your words and grow a thicker skin, I don't think you should putting yourself out there in certain discussions. There are simply some subjects that don't lend themselves to genteel debate.

Now if you're having a discussion on the best way to de-flea your house or your favorite Harry Potter book and someone is being a jerk about it, that's different, in my opinion.

/just my .02 on the topic.

I won't reveal your secret.

And I'm pretty sure the man behind roachboy has been messing around with alternate personas before Chuck Palahniuk ever thought of it :)

On the contrary, the users describe it as either naturally occurring (they started behaving normally, then diverged over time) or experimenting with different modes of interaction/being. I don't think it has anything to do with imitating popular media. Second Life itself is a platform where the 'body' can be instantly transformed - a sort of fluidity that would naturally lend itself to experimentation with alternate personas.

There are some things that I'll joke about, debate in a friendly manner, and talk lightheartedly about.

On the other hand, when it comes to certain important subjects, I honestly and sincerely feel that people who oppose my stance are morally and intellectually inferior to me. I tend to stay out of those discussions for the most part.