Osama bin Laden is dead. (How hard) did you celebrate?
 

I speak for myself when i say that all the cadets at the United States Air Force Academy went nuts. No alcohol, no wild orgies, just lots of adrenaline, cigars, and a nonstop chant of "nah nah nah naah, hey hey HEY, good byeee"

What did TFP do on this momentous occasion? Any TFPers about that mourned his death? What did TFP think of the President's speech? What kind of retaliation can we expect? How fast will Wal-Marts around the country run out of red, white, and blue streamers?

I don't know that I celebrated, or would celebrate anyone's death. I expect justice has been served.

What I'd really like to know, though, is how it took the world's only remaining superpower a full decade to hunt down a six-foot-six Saudi terrorist on permanent kidney dialysis.

I know revenge is a dish best served cold, but I think it may've gotten freezer burn by now.

im in the same boat as levite. no death should be celebrated. i didnt celebrate when saddam was hung, i didnt celebrate when osama was killed, i wont celebrate when GWB passes on.

but i will echo what ive said on the other osama thread started today that im drawing comparisons between saddam/osama deaths and the shia/american reactions.

i have to add that this is the type of celebrations that some on the muslim world did in the aftermath of 911, and which was frowned upon and criticised by the west.

how is this any different?

I read an article, then I watched President Obama's speech.

I honestly don't even care at this point. Tomorrow, innocent people will be sexually assaulted at airports for absolutely no reason, prisoners will be unlawfully detained at Guantanamo and numerous other military prisons, we'll still be involved in unnecessary wars that are wasting untold human lives, phones, emails, and other electronic correspondence will be monitored without warrants, Muslims will be targeted by hate groups, and the victims of 9/11 will still be just as dead.

His death would have been more meaningful to me if we hadn't sacrificed our souls to try and get revenge on him and his ilk. It would have been more meaningful still if he hadn't so totally and completely defeated us.

You're totally right, Will. I think I'd also feel more celebratory about justice being served had it happened ten years ago, before we wasted uncounted billions of dollars and uncounted thousands of lives on a war that had nothing to do with this guy, and let the fight that actually did have something to do with this guy go to hell in a handbasket-- not to mention using his name as an instiller of fear to justify shredding the Bill of Rights six ways from Sunday.

It is times like this that I'm embarassed to be a citizen of the US. Are we seriously having a party over this chickenshit-bullshit?

It doesn't matter that he's dead (or off being interrogated somewhere). He won his war. We cowered and changed our way of life.

All the "freedoms" we talk about defending we gave up to give ourselves the illusion of safety. We won't get that freedom back.

A decade of dead/crippled kids and a gajillion dollars that would have been better spent on education or bouncy castles... gone.

Isolationism: I'm for it.

agreed, damn it...

I found out at 4 am, when I couldn't sleep because of someone snoring. I didn't celebrate. I just spent a moment wondering who they're going to use to replace him now... since this country always needs someone to focus their energies on and explain why they're sending people and money overseas. I did feel a little moment of "I'm glad the ones who lost loved ones can have some closure," but just a moment. Then I started to try to think of words to kick S's ass in scrabble. Now what?

Yeah, there's nothing to celebrate. Just one more death.

I've been behind Obama even before he was elected, but in that speech he seemed to be expecting a big pat on the back and a hearty, "Job well done, Chief!".
Some of his luster is gone for me.

I have a question.
Obama said they knew where Bin-Laden's been since August, correct?
Why would the world's most wanted man stay in one place so long?

Pretty much same feeling for me.

Now we're going to get a bunch of "rah, rah, rah we final won!" To paraphrase Chris Rock- What'd we win? Go check your mailbox everyday for your OBL is dead prize. My guess is you won't find anything... ever.

I really don't care that he's dead but I'm not celebrating it either. We're still there and probably will be for years. He sucked us into committing endless resources to the region just like he did with the USSR back in the 80's. Something we ironically recognized as a way to bleed them dry and gave him help to do so. Now that we're being sucked dry no one seems to get we're getting fucked in the ass with no reach around.

I too could not sleep and went to BBC World Service Online at 03:00 GMT.
I did not celebrate and am a little embarrassed at the US response.

I expect I will watch the TV movie.

I find it impossible to celebrate death. In this case, the "momentous occasion" is the passing of a deeply tortured soul who lived at the mercy of a closed mind.

I'm flying today, so it will be interesting to see if things are any different than usual. Mind you, I'm travelling on short regional flights in Canada, but still.

I've thunk this thunk many a time the last decade. Wondered at the wondrous hypocrisy that has us get knotted up over personal expression and the right to think and dress and act the way we wish, side by side with the real life destruction and dismissal of hard earned rights and freedoms. The whining is coupled with the terrible morass of "security" that is such a brake on our lives, our wealth and our energy. Of course hypocrisy and indignation is being expressed by fundamentalists of all stripes, backgrounds and inclinations.

The complete inability of people everywhere to just let each other be sometimes staggers the mind. What evolutionary quirk has resulted in this universal bullshit we shovel all over each other? I mean, we have been pulling this crap since we were squabbling over cave rights with the Neanderthal. Enough already, people.

sheesh

I'm detecting varying degrees of responses out in the real world. There's a lot of stuff like what EventHorizon described - the meat-head "we're #1" chants and folks willing to dance on OBL grave. I'll be honest - I don't look to any of the service academies for anything different, and I'm sure that the only differences in West Point and Anapolis were the colors of the uniforms and the faces last night.

Then there's the "meh" response, which I think is the opposite end of the spectrum and equally pig-headed. Regardless of whether or not his death changes anything, regardless of the continued "War on Terror", this is a symbolic moment. A promise has been fulfilled, and while OBL may not have been important to al-Queda on a daily basis anymore or exercised any positive power over any substantial group, he embodied "The Enemy" for the majority of Americans. Logically or not, most Americans will rest a little easier for a while.

I don't stand and cheer but I don't ignore the significance of the event. Hopefully this will be seen by the Arab Spring movement as a huge positive and allow them to move forward to determine their own destinies.

I'm more hoping that something inspires an 'American Spring'.

I admit to being slightly reflexively thrilled when I first heard the news. It was a feeling that was pretty much identical to how I feel when I see a bond villain get his comeuppance.

Then I thought more about it. Will his death change anything? Probably not on our end. Does it mean we're "safer" (pretty sure we're already really safe from terrorrism)? No. Given the history of the pentagon's reporting of incidents like this, is it highly likely that they will tell the most thrilling version and least accurate version possible? Yes. Can we now stop pretending that it's a good idea to give up our rights in exchange for the perception of security? No, apparently not.

celebrate the squalid end of a squalid story? why?


the only thing that may be worth celebrating will happen with this absurd "war on terror" is declared over. when the colonial occupations of iraq and afghanistan are ended. when a basic and necessary rethinking of priorities gets underway that centers on a considerable reduction in military spending. when the privatized surveillance industry brought to you by hysteria inc. is dismantled.

well finding this guy and killing him was a giant step that needed to happen. consider what people would think down the road 20 years: "well we had to leave and we never actually caught him because he was just too damn sneaky."
it really would turn into vietnam II.

even though this isn't the end of the war and even though terrible things will continue to happen around the world, how can this big of a step towards giving more people hope that not only the government is doing its job be bad? i think it gives reassurance to friends and family who are fighting, that they aren't doing so in vain. i dont think it was a large victory by any stretch of the imagination and the war is definitely not over, but aside from the "Hey guys! Look what the Chief did!" part of the speech, i like what happened.

as for the amount of resources committed to finding him and fighting against Al-Quaida and their associates (please forgive the spelling), at this point haven't we as a country moved on from "hey he killed our guys, we need to kill him back"? at first, of course we wanted revenge but we're committed to ensure the Afghan people don't have to put up with crap like that in power. i think when we finally leave A-ghan it'll be from victory regardless of the costs, not withdrawl because of the costs.

We've always been at war with East Asia.

war is peace.

Doubleplusgood, RB.

i guess i was too quick to turn to the keyboard without properly digesting the events. what i realize now is that i wasn't celebrating another one biting the dust, but rather celebrating the magnitude and importance of the result of so many years of work.

RB i want to discuss that with you but i am required elsewhere. i promise i'll get back to it though because i think its a really interesting idea to debate.

Fuck Osama, I'm glad that bastard is dead.

I am tremendously encouraged by the reaction on this thread. The most surprising thing to me is that my Facebook newsfeed, which is overwhelmingly Torontonian and of a similar demographic to me (whatever that means), was way more positive about this, compared to this thread, which is more diverse and overwhelmingly American.

You folks continue to be a sophisticated, humanistic bunch. The successful killing of a person should not only be judged by the target's deeds, but by the capacity for violence in the killer. It is good to be back.

I'm not even willing to accept he's dead. I mean he might be and I guess probably is dead. Did it happen the way the DoD states? I think it probably happen any way but that way. The DoD has a long history of spinning bull shit and calling it gold. Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch et el convince me the DoD is near incapable of any forum of truth.

And burial at sea... in a couple of hours? Seems odd to me. If he not dead he's getting massive amps applied to his nads in an attempt to get info out of him.

I'll be honest: my first thought, after hearing he was dead and how the United States had supposedly done it, was that this will make a great movie. A summer popcorn flick--you know the type.

But that's about it for me--on the surface, it's a bit interesting, but otherwise I don't see how this is going to change much.

What do we do when the Bogeyman is gone? We invent a new one. We should know that by now.

The whole 'burial at sea' thing was kind of surprising. Something smells about the way such a huge announcement was made Re: Osama's death, followed by a quick dump in to the sea.

Anyway. I'm glad he's gone. Hopefully we've weakened Al Qaeda enough to avoid more terrorists acts and we can focus on important things like reducing the national debt.

cant say that i celebrated. all i did was have a moment of reflection for the people that we (as a country) lost on 9/11. i personally wonder what people were thinking celebrating in the streets.

I wonder who will replace him as the #1 terrorist (or what ever you call it). i am just glad that the people that lost someone in the attacks have some sort of closure.

On a lighter note:

http://i.imgur.com/JbU2F.png


Dllish is our resident expert; but I believe Islam prefers a quick burial. Burial at sea prevents any site from becoming a shrine as would have been the case with Saudi Arabia.

I have to admit, I smiled a bit when I heard the news, but that was because it meant the end of all this news coverage of the "royal wedding." :rolleyes:

That's funny. Anyone watching Fox today to see if they've turned this in to a negative for the President yet? My guess is they won't be able to do that for a day or two but it will happen. My guess is it will start with "He said he knew back and August... why wait until now?" "Yeah, you'd think he'd have done something sooner but was busy looking for someone to forge that birth certificate."

Sorry, there's so many of these:

http://regretfulmorning.com/wp-conte...den-dead-4.jpg

Forgive my irreverent humor. The announcement did come in the midst of a Trump interview.

I generally check conservative forums to see what direction conservative media is going to take. Based on what I've seen so far, it's likely that the right will credit the military for the kill and lambaste Obama for taking credit. This works because it fits with the right's military worship and Obama taking credit for something the military did is easy enough to attack. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to fit the narrative.

There's also a lot of talk from birthers that this is a massive distraction from the birth certificate issue, like Clinton launching bombing missions to distract from the thing with the affair.

Nothing can be done to stop the right-wing hate train.

Nevermind that the president is the Commander in Chief and seems to have authorized the operation. :rolleyes:

This is why I barely trust most popular media sources anymore.

all that matters for the conservative media apparatus is winning make-believe battles for news cycles. it'd be kinda hard for even the faux news set to wrangle this one, however, as almost the entirety pantheon of bush administration war criminals have congratulated obama on this meaningless action. presumably because they see in it a vindication of some kind.

I'll believe it when I see it.
You cannot tell me that someone didn't take pictures.
And part of me wonders what the hell they did to his body to need to dump it.
So, no, I didn't and won't celebrate.

i still think that the ship-board freezer that bin laden's been kept in these past ten years malfunctioned and he started to thaw out, so they dumped him overboard.

There is no shortage of OBL siblings and offspring. DNA testing would be very easy and conclusive. I'd bet money that it will be released in a few weeks when complete.

I'd also bet money that pictures exist. After the fallout from the Saddam video, it will never be made public.

There is nothing to be gained by holding onto his body. It's a huge liability from a public relations perspective. Dumping it into the ocean and quoting Islamic sensibility makes more sense. At least we learned something from Saddam's execution.

Are you saying that the Soviets (and their Russian successors) are better than us at body preservation?! Let me remind you of American Exceptionalism in the fields of taxidermy and mortuary science! May zombie Lenin eat your bourgois brain!

USA!
USA!
USA!

its all a conspiracy

http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/i...42b62b58/l.jpg

Interesting how the "special news report" came on TV and pre-emted the last half of The Celebrity Apprentice.
You can just see the Oval Office meeting.... "and if we wait another couple 2 minute warnings, we can really screw up Trump's show as well".

You think it's interesting that the announcement that the man behind most successful terrorist attack in American history interrupted Celebrity Apprentice? Seriously?

you're right. islam does prefer a quick burial, but burial at sea is only if you dont have the option of burying on land. An example is if a sailor dies on the high sea, and you cant store the body, then it would be permissible to do a sea burial. so for the americans to use the guise that it was done under islamic customs is utter bull.

as far as osamas site becoming a shrine in saudi, i think you're wayyy wrong on that one. islam (in particular sunni islam) forbids the building of shrines. it is so expressly forbidden that you will never see pictures of Muhammed, god, and other prophets in the mosques or anywhere else for that matter. the saudis ( the sunni wahabi sect of islam) in particular are extremely paranoid about shrines and idolitry, so much so that they do not let people pray at the site of the prophet Muhammed himself in Mecca so that his site does not become a shrine.

the shia's on the other hand permit the shrines for their holy imams and other leaders, but thats a totally new topic altogether.


im with noodle, im thinnking that his body may have been badly treated that they needed to dump it to avoid a media disaster. but dumping it at sea would suffice to the masses in the west who may not know the rituals of burial, but who are they trying to fool here?

That sounds just as likely as the official version. Except I think Bush would have used it at an earlier low point in his numbers.

This was announced last night at my Game of Thrones party and I didn't want to talk about it. Politics shouldn't be discussed while drinks flow unless everyone in the room agrees with each other. Otherwise it just becomes a pissing contest and everyone leaves angry.

Plan is right and right now the only thing I care about is when my friends and family get to come home from the war. Will they? No. I just really see it as a "Pat ourselves on the back America, we are AWESOME" kind of thing. Is it good we caught the guy? Yes, he was the leader of a group that did some really horrible things to our home country and he deserved to be punished for that. Will this change anything? I don't think so. This isn't a cut-off-the-head-and-the-body-dies situation, it's a cut-off-the-head-of-a-multi-headed-beast-and-watch-it-grow-another-one situation.

Until my friends and family come back (and I stop being groped at the airport security line), I am not going to start chanting, "USA USA USA".

and here's a round-up of the day in meathead jingoism:

New York Daily News put it most bluntly: 'Rot in hell!' | World news | The Guardian

Well, this will certainly guarantee Obama's re-election. I'm sure AlQaeda will be inspired to avenge Osama death, although I'm sure he was moving from cave to cave and what ever their equivlant to couch-surfing they have out there and too busy to run his own terrorist cell. Regarding the celebration, I'm getting Yoshinoya with a friend later :)

People said after the 1st Gulf War there was no way Bush Sr wouldn't get a second term. In politics you just never know and there's a ton of time between now and the election.

I kind of like this one.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5102/...48a857df_z.jpg

From what I've heard, Saudi Arabia would not repatriate bin Laden's body and so a burial sea was neccessary.

I am sure it wasn't as cut and dry as that but there you are.

Donald Trump has been instrumental in accusing Obama of not being born in the USA. So, I feel Obama's timing was planned to screw up Trump's show.

You vastly overestimate the importance of Donald Trump and underestimate the seriousness of killing Osama bin Laden.

I agree completely. It's hard to see how there's much of a short-term gain in this. It's certainly no October Surprise, and it's not like it was the season finale of the show.

Trump's a joke, but it pissed me off when they interrupted CA, 'cuz I want to know if Star Jones is finally out on her ass.
Fuck this real life shit, gimme reality tv!!1!

Will, Did you happen to see Obama roast Trump on You Tube? I take Bin Lanen's death very seriously. I have cancelled all travel plans to the USA and will not be flying on any US airlines.

I saw President Obama at the White House Correspondent's Dinner where he roasted himself, NPR, the movie The Lion King, Fox News, governmental employees, Seth Meyers, Matt Damon, and numerous other individuals and organizations in addition to Trump. You may have noticed that on the West coast his announcement interrupted the Simpsons. Do you think that's because they made his wife look stupid on an episode last year? Or do you think the timing of President Obama's speech coincided, in actuality, with confirming the death of Osama bin Laden and preparing for the speech?

wait, who died? really, did anyone actually still care?

anyway...

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." --Martin Luther King, Jr

Celebrated isn't the correct word to use. I don't think I can ever really celebrate someone's death. But, I am glad that our pursuit of him is over. For better or worse Osama Bin Laden was the man who set in motion events that have shaped American foreign policy for a decade. Ostensibly he is dead, and I believe most people think justice is done.

interesting that you quote Dr. King. would you say that his death was just another death compared to the death of hundreds of thousands (someone please correct me if that figure is incorrect) of black people in the name of racism or slavery? Osama's death was more than just some dude biting the bullet, it was a symbolic death.

I hate to be that guy, but only part of this was written by King. The second, third, and fourth sentences are from Strength to Love. The first sentence appears to have been simply added on.

Here's the full quote:

Only because I've seen a couple of these pop in this thread. And because I thought it was kinda funny.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/...if?w=255&h=156
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/...if?w=255&h=156

Well said.

Also terrorism now sadly is like a Lernaean Hydra once you cutoff a head other heads will appear. This is sadly the new reality, all you need to do is look at NYC now with the terror alert, the super slowdown now at airports after Osama was killed. The message that we will get you if you attack us while is heard now is not as strong since it took almost 10 years.

I applaud the military and intelligence services for their hard work and accomplishment, I just do not feel this will change anything. It is not a huge victory where people should be out celebrating. The closest to a celebration in my mind is the closure to some 9-11 families.

Killing of bin Laden: What are the consequences? - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

we have become the monster we're fighting.

On Osama Bin Laden?s Death | Common Dreams

if you actually read the article linked below the quote, 9er, you'll see that it is a more sophisticated and specific argument than you might get by reading off what you want to see from a paraphrase of a line used mostly as a teaser.

on the one hand sure. if you believe the mythology that reduced the 2001 attacks to the a single very bad apple (rendering neutral the manifest problems of empire but hey everyone sees what they want, yes?) so that we are collectively in a re-run of some cheesy western and have just witnessed----sort of----the climactic showdown between Good and Evil at High Noon in front of kitty's saloon---then sure. it's a simple little world, that, but it provides a quaint narrative and you don't have to work too hard to get it and who doesn't like the climactic gunfight in a western. and except for the whole civilization thing no problemo. but you present yourself above as having access to some Higher Reality, a revealed wisdom about what's Really Going On with people. it's a little unnerving, this rhetorical position you like to trot out. o the thin veneer of civilization--so easy to strip away.

and yes it is easy to strip away.

but i would think you'd kinda like that thin veneer of civilization. because what's behind it isn't great. it isn't smart. it isn't interesting. it's just death. like an endless ted nugent song. yeesh.


because one of the main problems with systematized barbarism national-security state stylee is the lies you have to tell to pretend its not there. but you have to lie about it because---well----it's that's how war economies roll. they're only easy to sell if you talk a bunch of shit about freedom and all that. of course it's only meaningful, this freedom business, so long as you don't fuck with the empire.

this whole charade of the war on terror is about maintaining in place the hoary old national-security state. it's about a vision of capitalism as a war economy predicated on a politics of security uber alles.

until the national-security state is dismantled, we are the beast.

problem is that folk like it. they like the westerns they get to watch. fuck yeah america they say once the dude in the white hat guns down the dude in the black hat who is exactly the same as the dude in the white hat except for who's cheering for him

i saw the quote on facebook and copied it because i agree with it, regardless of who said it or how it was cobbled together.

as for bin laden dying, i still couldn't care less.

...

First off, I stand behind everything that rb has said in post #66 above.

Since 9/11, I think many of us have been so traumatized by what we've witnessed that there is no longer a clear picture of what we stand for or what our actions out in the world are meant to achieve. Hell, speaking for myself (and I think many others), I can't even say for sure whether my government represents me at all. Therefore the killing of Osama bin Laden doesn't hold any significant meaning for me. And I certainly don't celebrate it. Was he killed to revenge the people who died on 9/11? I think a question like that highlights the dividing line between Americans who still essentially respect the power apparatus in this country and believe in the old American ethic and those of us who have seen too much to believe that anything is truly what it seems to be on the surface.

I've come to think of this modern American life as a giant stage play in which radical script changes have made stagehands late for their cues allowing us to see the reign of chaos and the decaying theater behind the scenes. Either you suspend disbelief and are just glad when the scenery is finally rolled into place or you ask yourself, 'what the fuck is going on back there?'

So, no. It was interesting, but I didn't celebrate when I heard the news. I put on my scrubs and went to work a 14 hour day and I didn't think about it at all.

thats exactly what did happen though. our "empire" shit the money bed but we stuck with it anyways. i dont see how you can say this is all in the name of economic interest when everyone can agree that its not about the money, its about completing the yin-yang, or as we apparently retarded (i speak for just myself... i hope) westerners say: "what goes around, comes around". i'm not going to thump my imaginary gavel on my desk and say that "justice" was done because getting into what real justice is would take years and years of debate... and by extension, server maintenance costs for TFP that we probably just dont have. however, what did anyone think was going to happen? we were going to have a little hash session of "chase the terrorist" for a few years and then give up once the price tag got too high? i dunno man, i don't think it [the war in a-stan] was ever about the money. i'm still undecided about iraq, but thats another tangent. we poked holes in OBL's body with bullets because he squashed a bunch of our people. i know there are still more people than just OBL, and i'm sure they'll get whats coming to them too, but is it so hard to be happy that all of this effort finally yielded a result?

disagreements aside. i'd like to pose a question just to you RB. what would YOU do after 9/11 if you were the U.S. Govt?

in the last two days at work. not ONE person has brought the Bin Laden story up with me. thats how much people give a shit about AQ and bin laden here.

arabs and muslim got over bin laden long ago.....after he screwed them over by forcing america's hand who took away their civil rights, their liberties, their freedom to travel without being questioned, their freedom to travel on public transport without being heckled and abused, by killing their brothers and sisters via collateral damage, by imprisoning their family members for looking and acting middle eastern. Bin Laden is despised because he brought hardship to his own people. People here got over him long ago. I posted elsewhere that Al Jazeera isnt even dedicating its broadcasts to this story 100% of the time! its not really a big deal, and its not going to change anything in the scheme of things. it certainly hasnt changed my life now that he's gone. I'll probably still get picked out of an air port line to be randomly checked. i dont expect that to change. i have mr OBL to thank for that.

But I just wish that those americans that find the death of one man something to celebrate, that they get over Bin Laden like the arabs have and move on.

Not to preempt RB, and (as usual) I have my disagreements with Roachboy.

But one of the very interesting things about the GWOT (a term that is no longer used), is that terrorism transcends borders and commits crimes in the way you would see organized crime transcend borders---

Anyway, the long and the short of it is, the GWOT perhaps should have garnered a more law-enforcement style response, rather than a 'send-the-troops-in' response.

It's also interesting--we invaded Afghanistan since the Taliban (with no diplomatic allies) would not turn over Osama--in other words we held the Government of Afghanistan liable for acts of a non-state actor (a direct-control test governs--see i.e. the Nicaragua cases where IIRC, people were trying to hold the USA liable for the actions of Contras).

/masturbation.

---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------

If I fly with my South Asian friend, we invariably get picked out for a air-puff test. It's funny, yet, sorta sad at the same time.

So, what does Charlie Sheen think about all this?

i actually agree with you on that, kir stang.

had a law-enforcement style response been forthcoming from the bush people--who set this absurd train into motion (and the obama admin hasn't done much to change what was put into motion)---we'd likely be in an entirely different place.

sadly, at this point, it's a counter-factual.

dlsih, i agree with you completely that it won't change a thing in terms of airline policy or military presence in the middle east, but the celebration isn't about relief that the hardships and annoyances are over, but rather that they weren't for nothing. Had OBL just escaped, and then turned up dead in a hospital of old age, people would've been further convinced that their government can't get anything right, but the fact that now people know they were paranoid for a reason is comforting and that it all wasn't just for naught

how does his death teach us that it wasn't all for naught?

If anything I would think that it only confirms it.

So how does it confirm it?

Well, to be honest, I think it was confirmed long before he died. I don't think I've ever heard a person, conservative or liberal, utter the words: 'well, if we can just find this sickly, bearded psychopath and kill him, then all of this will seem worth it.'

bin Laden's death may be symbolic, but materially it is nothing but a news story. And it doesn't even come close to confirming that the price we have paid in response to 9/11 was a good value. Like many others on this thread have said: He won. His death doesn't change that and what's more he was probably aware of that fact right up until the seconds before he died. How are we to take any sense of victory or even closure from that? Our culture has been made irrevocably less free, less tolerant and less democratic. If you go back and read some of his statements pre and post-9/11 you will remember that those were some of his stated goals. He was not a stupid man. Much like many people who are looking at America from the outside, I think he had a perspective that allowed him the foresight to know (or at least suspect) what would happen to us when we were hit hard. It's just another one of those gallingly ironic realities that pepper the history of mankind.

so what were his goals? to change American people? whup-dee-do, IMO America's greatest strength is its ability to adapt to new challenges instead of clinging to things that worked in the past. while not necessarily pumped for change, people won't resist an obvious inevitable change in lifestyle (for long anyways). sure we have to take our shoes off in the airport but fatasses still eat mcdonalds. tweens still watch MTV, and people still protest peacefully without turning into bullet sponges.

I did not celebrate Osama's death and frankly, I'm a little annoyed at all these people that are going crazy over it. He's dead, a lot of other people are dead, and this will probably cause more death and destruction. I guess I can't help feel like he was executed by the soldiers that found him even though he should face trial or something similar.

That said, our military did a great job, and they always do (as a whole). I'm proud of them but I always have been.

I celebrated.
I rocked the tunes in my car loud, I smiled and waved at strangers, and I gave the thumbs up to every other person I saw smiling for no reason because we were all happy for the same reason.
It was symbolic, it was revenge, it was dirty justice, and I wish they would have stuffed a pork chop in his mouth and a pig's dick in his ass before they dropped him in the drink.
I hope Christians and Jews did his ceremonial washing with their left hand right after wiping their ass.
I hope the bullet that killed him was taken out and coated in gold as a medal for the shooter.
I hope they used some sophisticated guidance / sinking system so his fish food face never points toward Mecca again.
I'm glad he's dead and I feel nothing but pity for those of you who don't feel the same.

Oh some of these responses make me chuckle, especially feeling pity for people who don't feel the same as you, no one needs your pity, and what's this new infatuation with shoving things up people's asses? It's kind of more disturbing than the celebrating of one mans death, like it's going to change anything, other than let people think they accomplished something during these wars, but I guess oem need something to stroke their egos, so stroke away fellas, I'll stay here and chuckle.

you can count on me to stroke myself anytime silent_jay

Hehe, was so hoping someone would make that joke...

Follow Up of the Day: Fake MLK Quote Origin Found On Facebook - The Daily What

Yes, I celebrated when his death was announced- I tend to like it when people that want to kill me and everyone I know are killed.....

To paraphrase an article I read....there's a lot of "frat boy" celebrating going on. I find that pretty repulsive. Mistreating a dead body is not a form of revenge, it's not funny, or brave, or necessary, regardless of what that person did while they were alive.

We are Americans*. We always brag about being the best country in the world. Well, let's prove it, and act a little more classy.



*those celebrating-- I'm aware there are other countries represented on TFP :)

“Today we don’t celebrate the loss of the man, but the death of his hatred.”
—Toronto native Stephan Gerhardt, whose brother Ralph died in the World Trade Center’s North Tower

i love you...

in a strictly speaking platonic way...
on an internet forum...
presumably nowhere close to you...
without binoculars...:lol:

I'm personally ashamed of how the world has reacted. This country has become no more important.

Careful...if you get too close, my dog will lick you to death :lol: