Etiquette for the Generously Proportioned
 

Last week I found myself in an odd situation and thought I might present it to TFP for a possible answer.

As I trudged across the parking lot to the office on Monday morning I saw "Cindy," an basically obese co-worker heading towards the stairs instead of the elevator. As we both work at the third floor, this puzzled me as she has all the ankle/knee/leg problems that come with serious weight. Hoping to avoid an awkward situation, I ducked into the elevator vestibule to find an "out of order sign" taped over the buttons. I had apparently failed my avoidance dice roll. Making my way to the stairs, I noted Cindy making her way up the first flight. Now this is an old building and it has nice wide well-worn treads and there was sufficient room for me to shoot past her and keep going. This is the cusp of the dilemma;

I don't work closely with Cindy, but I have in the past. I didn't want to just blow past her with my headphones on like she wasn't there. For the first flight I made appropriate small talk and tried to pace myself accordingly. By the second flight her knees had begun to complain and the fact that I had slowed down to be polite was becoming painfully obvious. She paused before the third flight. "Only one more to go" I offered, almost apologetically. She waved me on without saying anything. When I reached the top and opened the door to our floor I caught a look of her face over my shoulder. It was less than happy.

So TFP, should have I minded my own business and passed her with my earbuds firmly in place? Would waiting at the turn of the stairs be the more gentlemanly thing to do?

To put things in perspective; I am 6'2 and bounce between 220 and 230 lbs. Cindy in roughly 5'6 and well into 300 lbs.

What's wrong with a simple smile and hello?

You're not ignoring her and there is no need to slow down either.



She was probably embarrassed. Most of fat people don't like to be reminded that they're fat, especially in front of other people.

She was probably in a bad mood and saying "Only one more to go..." likely didn't help.

A simple "Good morning" or "Hi" would have sufficed. No reason to be awkward.

So you've both identified a fatal flaw in my actions. I honestly didn't think about just saying "hi."

You don't have to remind fat people they're fat, we know. We get it.

There's no reason for you to feel awkward, Scud. Just say "Hi" like they said up-thread and continue on your way.

If she's like me, she doesn't want an audience while she does her thing.

"Hi"

Yup.

A situation which would trigger my 'What, if anything, shall I do for the best' function would be a case in which she, or a fat he were laden with heavy baggage. Heck ... if a guy or girl are going up or down stairs with something which wuold be more comfortable with two people carrying it, I always offer to lend a hand ... with a quick reactioned willingess to back off if it's not wanted.

So ... the lift does not work, and fat person with lots of baggage is is doing zero-to-extreme cardio workout. Yup. I'd definitely feel concerned. Unsure, but not willing to leave it at just "Hi." I'd feel the need to check out if assistance would be welcome.

I think it springs from a sense of connectedness with people who are within sight or sound of me, as I hope they have for me.

It could have been worse, you could have jogged in place behind her shouting "move it! move it!" I suppose

But like others said, I suppose she found it a bit embarassing not being able to climb the stairs easily, and probably the best thing to do in any case like that is not draw someones attention to the thing thats embarassing them.

To be honest the way you word your post kind of comes over as patronising and a little insulting towards the lady
_

I dont know if I can offer a slightly similar experience. This ISNT one of my fight stories at least.

I am 5 10 and weigh between 280 and 320 lbs depending on how things are going and have for the last say 8 years. I am quite broad shouldered but by best natural weight is probably about 200-215 lbs so I am significantly overweight and have been most of my adult life.

Approx 8 years ago I was out drinking with a load of friends from work. There was one girl who to be honest I had a bit of a crush on (she had a long term boyfriend). At some point we were walking back to the taxi rank and we were sort of arm in arm (I think she had twisted her ankle, or we were messing about) anyay, her boyfriend was at the taxi rank. She went over to him and (I wasnt aware of this at all at the time) he threatened to beat me up. She said to him "dont hit him, he's fat!"

_

I didnt know of any of it until Monday at work when she (thinking I had overheard) apologised for what she said

_

To be honest it made me feel furious and completely immasculated. I cant describe how much at that point I wished the guy had tried to have a go so I could have beaten the shit out of him and shown that despite being fat I could still fight. I sort of stopped liking her at that point, which isnt really fair. We were all pretty drunk and she was trying to stop me getting hit and I was somewhat in the wrong in any case since I had my hands all over his girlfriend... but somehow she had revealed a shame inside of me and I couldnt really like her in the same way after that. Like I said, It aint that I dont know I am fat, it isnt that I logically think nobody else can notice, but when its said out loud it makes you feel ashamed of yourself and you exactly like someone who makes you feel ashamed.

(and I never met her boyfriend again...)

Awesome, I just gagged on Diet Coke.

Do you fist bump black colleagues and call them "bro!"?

She knows she's fat.

You know she's fat.

She knows you know she's fat.

But the social contract says that you don't admit that you know that she knows that you know that she's fat.

I don't know about your math, bro.

100% of black guys are black because of genetics.

XX% of fat people are fat because of genetics.

My point was that if one is socially inept enough to point up the fatness of a colleague, he might also be likely to make crass racial stereotype errors.

Of course I realise I've been equally crass in assuming the OP is NOT black himself...

I experienced an awkward moment like this myself.

I returned to my old job last summer after 5+ years. Meanwhile a 10 year older co-worker had changed a lot from the last time, I saw him: almost grey hair compared to the old, gained weight. I learned he had been also quite stressed recently, but I didn't know that he had also had knee problems, that made it painful and slow to move.

He is not very tall, shorter than me, and slightly overweight already earlier, but he was still relatively agile in his movements and the weight didn't seem to bother him then. He had actually later lost weight, remarried - but then life had turned more stressful and affected his health.

One of the first days for me being back to work, we both left our workstations at the same time. I started talking to him while walking beside him, but it was apparent very soon, he was walking real slow, because he could not make it any faster. I tend to take brisk steps, was heading to the stairs to go down, while he was just trying to make it to the elevator.

He replied to my chatting, but in a while he sort of said to me "you don't have to wait for me..." - it was embarrassing for him, that he had become slow, while his nice opinion of me was, that I hadn't changed a bit, while I was gone. I have, but his condition had made the gap wider agewise as he's the charmer type, who always has a suggestive wink in the eye for women around him, in a nice way, but now I sensed a hurtful dent in his self-image.

I did carry on my own pace, because he was not comfortable of us walking together.

Hah, I thought this thread was going to be about the dilemma of well hung men.

Anyways, I wouldn't slow my pace, I just say say Hi Cindy, smile and jog past, like I'm getting a work out.

Disabled (either medically or say a broken leg) or elderly, yes I'd slow down and/or help them.

Fat? Fat because you sit on the couch and do nothing but eat Cheetos while watching Next American Talent Whore (tm)? Screw that, breezing by you and could care less about your "disability".

I'll wait all day because of elderly person or someone in a wheelchair is taking longer to cross the street, go into a building, get out of their car. I will be beyond patient for them and help out if I can. They didn't get that way because they ordered the super-size combo at McFastfood.

I look down everyday and see my belly getting bigger, but I understand it's MY fault and shouldn't get special attention/treatment because of it. Hell, I point it out as a joke on a regular basis by referring to myself as "fatty"

"Fatty needs to exercise more."
"Fatty shouldn't have eaten that order of large fries."
"Fatty needs a break."

Point: You shouldn't have to wait on fat people because they are slower than everyone else. Fly by and hope shame makes them sign up for a gym membership. I have no sympathy for those who are overweight as no one should for me if I become that way.

LordEden- Even though I don't believe we (he) should slow down for the lowest common denominator (yes, handicap, mentally, fat, whatever.) You have the wrong picture about all fat people.

Sure, some really do just sit around, don't care, and eat a lot. But some struggle against it all their life. I'm not one of those people but my cousin is. I've watched her struggle and gain major self esteem issues and depression from it since she was 10. Which led her to SSRIs which make her gain weight on top of everything. I can't blame her for being fat because I can't control my depression. Not saying either of us deserve to be called disabled because of those two particular things, but nor do we need people scoffing at our struggle because they know not.

I'm not talking people who have extra weight or are not "hollywood skinny", I'm talking obese people who have no care for the fact they weight twice (or even 3x) as much as they need to. People who are fat enough to the point they put so much strain on their bodies that it affects their knees, hearts, whatever. Those people I could care less about because they are the ones causing it.

I do have two overweight friends, one actively works on his weight, monitoring his calorie intake, doing low impact exercise, and staying away from the junk food isle. I applaud him, he will never be "skinny" (nor should he try to be some hollywood image of skinny) but he is working his way to becoming healthier and living a longer life.

The other friend? Orders two meals at every sitting and won't exercise because "it hurts to much". He gets no sympathy what-so-ever and is just eating years off of his life.

I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt when they are actively trying to do something about their weight. People gain weight; stress and depression can lead a person to gain weight. Just do something about it, don't sit there and burden our already fucked up healthcare system with your problems.

Brought to you by Fatty (tm)

While I wasn't picking up on subtle social cues, I also wasn't pointing and dancing around her while singing "Baby Got Back." I was trying to be friendly with a co-worker in a less than choice situation. More so, I posted a topic asking other's opinion on how to better address a similar circumstances.

If the first post came off as patronizing and insulting that was just because I was trying to be too "cute" with my word selection. That wasn't the intention.

It would be crass to say I purposely acted poorly.

Hey, don't mind me - I'm British so I always come over as pompous...

For the record, I'm a fat fuck too. :|

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Hi Scud.

Like Settie, I'd sympathise with your predicament too. You did give your best shot at being a good friend. You were wakeful. You'd felt misgivings, and decided to check them here.

Your, "Only one more to go," was only delivered after she had demonstrated signs of struggle and discomfort. Your comment was tied directly to 'person is in pain and near goal', and took the form of 'goal is close ... rest will be soon.' Settie's comment makes sense in that she Might have had a sense of such embarassment all the same. I wonder .... Scud, would you have said it differently if she were a skinny person with whom you'd been walking up the stairs, if she'd shown knee trauma?


Exploring further scenarios ... If, at the beginning of the forced climb, you'd looked at her and said 'Hey ... only TEN more flights to go', that would have left room for 'fattist' interpretation. If, at the beginning of the forced climb, you'd said. "Hi ... bugger, it sure looks like we've got to do a climb today!" You'd be in an interesting position. That kind of comradely grumbling is par for the course when colleages' workplace has malfunctioned. However, would you have been supposed to refrain from that in the event that your comrade was fat or otherwize obviously going to have a more difficult time of it than you?


My head spins, and I bet there is a Zen training manual which has a story : A Zen master and two students met a Fat Person on the stairs ...

I wonder how it would go.

:)

She could have stopped and let you past, make a joke about it or just be friendly.
It does go both ways, I'm fat and if I found myself in that situation, which is very possible and I believe has happened that is what I would do if possible.
I'm just saying and trying to give perspective that it was made awkward by both your actions not just yours and I commend you for asking about it.

Large coworker, "my tummy didn't agree with those cheese its"
Me, "I don't think anybody's tummy agrees with cheese its at 8:00 in the morning."

It sounded to me that her unhappy look was because she was struggling to climb the stairs. Not necessarily because of you.

just a smile and a "see you up there" would've worked too.

"just one more to go"... definitely the wrong choice of words haha

So here is an update as a busy week and Verizon's dodgy service have kept me from logging on.

As Settie suggested, If Cindy bore a grudge over my misguided comment it had a short lifespan. In the two past weeks there hasn't been any dirty looks or avoidance. It is quite possible that the sour look on her face could have been a product of joint pain, and a lot of over-sensitivity on my part.

To answer you Zenda; if it had been a slender coworker, I probably would have said "morning" while shooting past them, or not said anything at all. This speaks to social conditioning that is probably present to a degree in anyone.

To put a stunted but dramatic end to this, here is a Zen parable I found from a book on my shelf;

There was an old woman in China who had supported a monk for over twenty years. She built a little hut for him and fed him while he was meditating. Finally she wondered just what progress he had made in all this time.

To find out, she obtained the help go a girl rich in desire. "go and embrace him," she told her, "and the ask him suddenly: "what now?'"

The girl called upon the monk and without much ado caressed him, asking him what he was going to do about it

"An old tree grows on a cold rock in winter," replied the monk somewhat poetically. "Nowhere is there any warmth." The girl returned and related what he had said.

"To think I fed that fellow for twenty years!" exclaimed the old woman in anger. "He showed no consideration for you need, no disposition to explain your condition. He need not have responded to passion, but at least he should have evidenced some compassion."

She at once went to the hut of the monk and burned it down.

:love:the parable!

If the stairs are broad enough you don't even need to excuse yourself, but it's polite.

I ask you to excuse me?

Good luck with Cindy.:thumbsup:

And that, kids, is how Devo was born...

Oh come on, you could have totally broken the ice with a friendly pat on that ample butt as you squeezed by her.

Just kidding....