Woman regrets the "consensual" drunken sex, the man is a rapist now - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

DEI37 · 07-09-2003, 05:04 PM

Personally, I think it's pathetic. Read the article and discuss: Drunken sex leads to morning after regret and rape charges

____________________________________

The Air Force Academy's Show Trial
The academy's new mascot should be the scapegoat.
By Dave Cullen
Posted Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 11:55 AM PT

Illustration by Mark Alan Stamaty
The Air Force wants to resolve one scandal by creating another. Since the Air Force Academy rape controversy broke in January, the service has been working feverishly to control the damage. It scrupulously owned up to mishandling the rape accusations, mandated a barrage of reforms to improve the school's climate, and installed a tough new academy regime to enact its agenda. Then it started criminal proceedings against some of the accused—that's where it went terribly wrong.

Last week the academy's newly installed, get-tough Commandant Brig. Gen. Johnny Weida announced the first court-martial arising from the scandal. Sophomore Douglas Meester is charged with rape, forcible sodomy, indecent assault, and providing alcohol to a minor. He faces two life sentences if convicted on the most serious charges.

But Meester appears increasingly like a convenient scapegoat. After Meester's Article 32 hearing in May—the military analogue of a grand jury—the presiding investigating officer found the charges so flimsy that he recommended the court-martial be scuttled. And Weida's own legal adviser, Staff Judge Advocate Col. James Moody, advised the commandant of the court-martial's futility in a June memo: "To be frank, the rape and forcible sodomy charges are unlikely to result in findings of guilty." Yet he curiously recommended court-martial anyway. (Moody's statements were leaked to the Colorado Springs Gazette and independently confirmed by Slate.)

No wonder the military lawyers are dubious. The case against Meester is weak: Two cadets got really drunk and had sex. She regretted it in the morning; that made him a rapist.

This was not a gangbang or an ambush. There was no accusation of premeditation to get her drunk and take advantage. The "victim" testified in open court that she never recalls protesting in any way. Instead she described flirting with Meester and his buddy Robert Rando, sitting in Rando's lap, "clinging" to Rando, and exchanging body shots with both. She initiated one body shot and chose to lick Rando's chest rather than his neck. When Meester began to kiss her, she said she kissed back.

After about six tequila shots and one mixed drink, she was "falling over like a rag doll." But by this time, Meester and Rando were both convinced she was interested, and Rando thought she would come back to his room. When Rando left to coax his roommate out, Meester seized the opportunity. He undressed her, drew her into bed, and engaged in oral, anal, and vaginal sex. She described drifting in and out of consciousness once things got going. Investigators estimated her blood alcohol content at 0.19 percent, his at 0.17 percent. When investigators questioned her a few days later, she said in a sworn statement, "I know for a fact that he probably thought what we were doing was consensual."

If getting drunk and hooking up is illegal, then half the college population in America should be remanded into custody. On any other campus, prosecuting a student for doing what Meester did would have provoked an outrage. But the academy has been so humiliated and demoralized that no cadet or faculty member would dare step forward to defend the accused. They would be crushed by the media as rape deniers. The perception inside the academy is get tough or get crucified.

The painful irony is that the Meester show trial has emerged from a bone fide soul-searching by the Air Force and a sincere effort to re-instill core values. Meester broke academy rules and he should be punished. In addition to behaving like a louse, he is clearly guilty of fraternization with a freshman, drinking in the dorms, and providing alcohol to a fellow minor. Based on current standards, he deserves a slew of demerits, several marching tours, and a period of restriction to barracks. Instead, he is facing life behind bars. Even if he beats the rape charge, he could get two years just for sharing the tequila.

Meester's show trial isn't likely to commence until the fall, but its germination can be traced back to January, when the academy reacted so feebly to the budding scandal. Female cadets charged they had been literally raped by their wingmates and symbolically raped by commanders, who ignored their charges and even punished the victims. The generals responded petulantly and paid for it dearly. The more they protested, the more they cemented the central narrative of the story: Academy brass was apathetic about rape. The corollary suggested that women were still second-class cadets. A group of congresswomen issued a statement charging a "culture of rape." The academy is still struggling to reverse that impression.

As the scandal escalated, the Pentagon assumed command of the academy, sacking the leadership, rewriting cadet rules, and installing a new team to get tough on offenders. But until Meester's May hearing, not one of the accused cadets paraded through Time, the New York Times, or 20/20 this spring had been charged. Somebody had to get locked up.

Rape cases are notoriously tough to prosecute—particularly he said/she said situations—but the academy is determined to prove it's trying, and that may be the real motive for the Meester trial. Air Force Secretary James Roche told reporters at a May 28 academy press conference that he had directed commanders here to pursue Article 32 hearings more aggressively.

Gen. Weida is not discussing his Meester decision, but one factor in the commandant's push for prosecution may be the belief that military discipline sometimes requires a scapegoat. In a military unit, it may sometimes be more important to set an example than worry too much about an individual cadet—especially one who has clearly misbehaved. Two leading military law scholars, Duke law professor Scott Silliman and National Institute of Military Justice President Eugene Fidell, said commanders are not expected to render their decisions entirely on the merits of the case. "It is absolutely appropriate for the commander to look at the impact of the decision on the entire unit," Fidell said. "Particularly with regard to the issue of discipline."

In other words, it is reasonable to court-martial an innocent man just to send a message to the troops. Fortunately, the officers Weida will appoint as Meester's jury are not under the same stricture as Weida. They are not supposed to consider the unit or the academy's reputation, only the facts of the case. Those facts are ugly, but not grounds for ending a young man's life.

Phaenx · 07-09-2003, 05:11 PM

I hate women in this country, they enjoy tag teaming with the pussy soft hearted judges and cold blooded pillow biter lawyers to ream guys like myself.

Zello · 07-09-2003, 05:39 PM

That is ridiculous. She told the police that he may have not even known he raped her. Even though she wants him to serve two life sentences?

It seems, like the article says, that they are trying to prosecute him "just to send a message to the troops."

Meridae'n · 07-09-2003, 05:44 PM

Sounds like the man's a scapegoat, but the author of the article is obviously bias, so i'm sure we're not getting the full story...

tinfoil · 07-09-2003, 05:44 PM

Send a message that even if you are innocent of everything except bad judgment, you can still be expected to be hung out to dry.

Yup, that's a positive reinforcement.

YourNeverThere · 07-09-2003, 06:15 PM

the article was incredabley biased, but i think the other this is kind of strange

tikki · 07-09-2003, 06:51 PM

Stay sober and away from intoxicated people like I do, and this problem doesn't arise.

The charge is total bullshit.

The_Dude · 07-09-2003, 07:12 PM

poor scapegoat

Phaenx · 07-09-2003, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tikki
Stay sober and away from intoxicated people like I do, and this problem doesn't arise.

The charge is total bullshit.

Yes it does, unless you stay away from totally bat shit insane women, you'd be suprised how many of those there are. Some chick accused my buddy of rape a few years back. Ironically, he was at church with about 30 or so alibi's, haha, stupid whore.

asquint · 07-09-2003, 08:47 PM

This cadet is finished, without a doubt, no matter the verdict. The community is too small, the memories are too long, no matter what the outcome for him to seriously pursue a career as an officer. The same stands true for the female cadet, while she is likely to continue on and even graduate, the stigma attached will be with her throughout her tenure at the academy and will follow her on to permanent duty stations.

Dragonlich · 07-09-2003, 09:52 PM

interesting note: while women are overly afraid men will rape them, men are overly afraid women will wrongly accuse them of rape. Both sides will point out they'd never do it (and be insulted by the suggestion), and most won't.

Most humans are actually friendly and normal.

manalone · 07-10-2003, 08:03 AM

retroactive removal of consent should be a crime in itself. Prosecute them for fraud at least.

seretogis · 07-10-2003, 08:26 AM

Moral: "Don't have drunken sex."

Sparhawk · 07-10-2003, 08:48 AM

Maybe *he* should accuse *her* of raping *him*.

You reverse that, and you have the exact same facts.

What I want to know is how this guy can keep it up for 3 rounds at 0.17 BAL. I've barely got the energy to collapse in my bed.

Cynthetiq · 07-10-2003, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dragonlich
interesting note: while women are overly afraid men will rape them, men are overly afraid women will wrongly accuse them of rape. Both sides will point out they'd never do it (and be insulted by the suggestion), and most won't.

Most humans are actually friendly and normal.

hey that's why during my heavy drinking days I was celibate... I didn't want to have any issues like that or pregnant women calling me for that matter...

lurkette · 07-10-2003, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
I hate women in this country, they enjoy tag teaming with the pussy soft hearted judges and cold blooded pillow biter lawyers to ream guys like myself.

Whoa, did somebody wake up on the wrong side of the bed. I hardly think it's fair to paint all women with the same brush based on what one immature woman has done. Grow up.

Nisses · 07-10-2003, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sparhawk
Maybe *he* should accuse *her* of raping *him*.

You reverse that, and you have the exact same facts.

What I want to know is how this guy can keep it up for 3 rounds at 0.17 BAL. I've barely got the energy to collapse in my bed.

that's cuz you're not in the Air Force boy!

sixate · 07-10-2003, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
I hate women in this country, they enjoy tag teaming with the pussy soft hearted judges and cold blooded pillow biter lawyers to ream guys like myself.

Someone read my mind while I was at work today.

macmanmike6100 · 07-11-2003, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by manalone
retroactive removal of consent should be a crime in itself. Prosecute them for fraud at least.

Well-said. "Retroactive removal" is ridiculous. I feel bad for Meetster (and what a cool name, too, you don't even need to come up with a nickname for the guy!)

Mongolguy · 07-11-2003, 03:07 PM

I had the exact thing happen 11 years ago. I didn't get court-martialed, but it did fuck up my Air Force career. That's why I am now Mr. Mongolguy and not MSgt Mongolguy.

isandro · 07-12-2003, 01:47 PM

It's pretty repulsive how these cadets get slapped around like a couple of pawns.
What kind of moral are you teaching when you sacrifice the pupils just to flex some muscle.

RelaX · 07-12-2003, 02:02 PM

It's cases like this that makes it that much harder for legitimate rapecharges to be taken as serious as they require.
Oh the injustice of it all...

Darthnapoleon · 07-13-2003, 07:16 PM

that's horrible, the courts are just bowing down to this girl, and she's not even sure he raped her. She's just trying to make herself look like a victim instead of a slut. I have been so careful around girls, and have not done anything with drunk girls in my earlier days because i knew things like this could happen.

komodo · 07-14-2003, 12:08 AM

The slightest chance that I could be accused of rape because someone decides the next day, or the next week, or the next year that they would have been better off not having sex with me terrifies me. It's just as bad as persecuting someone for crimes they commited before laws against those crimes existed.

Get married. Have some sex. Woman decides she didn't WANT to get married and have some sex. You are now a rapist. What a wonderful world...

I suppose what seperates rapists from these women in my mind is that rapists are truly fucked up in the head- they are criminals, twisted psychotic violent men. They cannot be rehabilitated. Etc. If caught, they WILL go to prison. The women on the other hand, are guilty of fucking up someone's life JUST as badly as a rapist can (albeit in a different way), and yet they aren't punished, can do it multiple times with no consequences, and can choose to do it without warning to anyone they have had sex with. If caught, the accused still has a fucked up reputation that they can never repair. THey will forever be known as an accused rapist. If caught, the woman suffers no punishment and the man suffers for the rest of his life as an accused rapist. If not caught, the man suffers for the rest of his life in prison.

Decide that chode you slept with wasn't good enough for you? Now he raped you!

Wake up next to some guy you don't know after a night at a kegger? He raped you!

Boyfriend spent the night with the guys instead of with you? He's been raping you for months!

HORRIFYING.

greathornytoad · 07-14-2003, 04:38 AM

sad, but I'm not suprised. in this day and age when you can't ask a co worker out without having to worry if she'll consider it being sexual harassment.....

MacGnG · 07-14-2003, 12:26 PM

IF SHE'D DRUNK DONT HAVE SEX WITH HER!
--------
they are both wrong, but i guess they have to hold someone accountable.

07-09-2003, 05:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Woman regrets the "consensual" drunken sex, the man is a rapist now Personally, I think it's pathetic. Read the article and discuss: Drunken sex leads to morning after regret and rape charges ____________________________________ The Air Force Academy's Show Trial The academy's new mascot should be the scapegoat. By Dave Cullen Posted Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 11:55 AM PT Illustration by Mark Alan Stamaty The Air Force wants to resolve one scandal by creating another. Since the Air Force Academy rape controversy broke in January, the service has been working feverishly to control the damage. It scrupulously owned up to mishandling the rape accusations, mandated a barrage of reforms to improve the school's climate, and installed a tough new academy regime to enact its agenda. Then it started criminal proceedings against some of the accused—that's where it went terribly wrong. Last week the academy's newly installed, get-tough Commandant Brig. Gen. Johnny Weida announced the first court-martial arising from the scandal. Sophomore Douglas Meester is charged with rape, forcible sodomy, indecent assault, and providing alcohol to a minor. He faces two life sentences if convicted on the most serious charges. But Meester appears increasingly like a convenient scapegoat. After Meester's Article 32 hearing in May—the military analogue of a grand jury—the presiding investigating officer found the charges so flimsy that he recommended the court-martial be scuttled. And Weida's own legal adviser, Staff Judge Advocate Col. James Moody, advised the commandant of the court-martial's futility in a June memo: "To be frank, the rape and forcible sodomy charges are unlikely to result in findings of guilty." Yet he curiously recommended court-martial anyway. (Moody's statements were leaked to the Colorado Springs Gazette and independently confirmed by Slate.) No wonder the military lawyers are dubious. The case against Meester is weak: Two cadets got really drunk and had sex. She regretted it in the morning; that made him a rapist. This was not a gangbang or an ambush. There was no accusation of premeditation to get her drunk and take advantage. The "victim" testified in open court that she never recalls protesting in any way. Instead she described flirting with Meester and his buddy Robert Rando, sitting in Rando's lap, "clinging" to Rando, and exchanging body shots with both. She initiated one body shot and chose to lick Rando's chest rather than his neck. When Meester began to kiss her, she said she kissed back. After about six tequila shots and one mixed drink, she was "falling over like a rag doll." But by this time, Meester and Rando were both convinced she was interested, and Rando thought she would come back to his room. When Rando left to coax his roommate out, Meester seized the opportunity. He undressed her, drew her into bed, and engaged in oral, anal, and vaginal sex. She described drifting in and out of consciousness once things got going. Investigators estimated her blood alcohol content at 0.19 percent, his at 0.17 percent. When investigators questioned her a few days later, she said in a sworn statement, "I know for a fact that he probably thought what we were doing was consensual." If getting drunk and hooking up is illegal, then half the college population in America should be remanded into custody. On any other campus, prosecuting a student for doing what Meester did would have provoked an outrage. But the academy has been so humiliated and demoralized that no cadet or faculty member would dare step forward to defend the accused. They would be crushed by the media as rape deniers. The perception inside the academy is get tough or get crucified. The painful irony is that the Meester show trial has emerged from a bone fide soul-searching by the Air Force and a sincere effort to re-instill core values. Meester broke academy rules and he should be punished. In addition to behaving like a louse, he is clearly guilty of fraternization with a freshman, drinking in the dorms, and providing alcohol to a fellow minor. Based on current standards, he deserves a slew of demerits, several marching tours, and a period of restriction to barracks. Instead, he is facing life behind bars. Even if he beats the rape charge, he could get two years just for sharing the tequila. Meester's show trial isn't likely to commence until the fall, but its germination can be traced back to January, when the academy reacted so feebly to the budding scandal. Female cadets charged they had been literally raped by their wingmates and symbolically raped by commanders, who ignored their charges and even punished the victims. The generals responded petulantly and paid for it dearly. The more they protested, the more they cemented the central narrative of the story: Academy brass was apathetic about rape. The corollary suggested that women were still second-class cadets. A group of congresswomen issued a statement charging a "culture of rape." The academy is still struggling to reverse that impression. As the scandal escalated, the Pentagon assumed command of the academy, sacking the leadership, rewriting cadet rules, and installing a new team to get tough on offenders. But until Meester's May hearing, not one of the accused cadets paraded through Time, the New York Times, or 20/20 this spring had been charged. Somebody had to get locked up. Rape cases are notoriously tough to prosecute—particularly he said/she said situations—but the academy is determined to prove it's trying, and that may be the real motive for the Meester trial. Air Force Secretary James Roche told reporters at a May 28 academy press conference that he had directed commanders here to pursue Article 32 hearings more aggressively. Gen. Weida is not discussing his Meester decision, but one factor in the commandant's push for prosecution may be the belief that military discipline sometimes requires a scapegoat. In a military unit, it may sometimes be more important to set an example than worry too much about an individual cadet—especially one who has clearly misbehaved. Two leading military law scholars, Duke law professor Scott Silliman and National Institute of Military Justice President Eugene Fidell, said commanders are not expected to render their decisions entirely on the merits of the case. "It is absolutely appropriate for the commander to look at the impact of the decision on the entire unit," Fidell said. "Particularly with regard to the issue of discipline." In other words, it is reasonable to court-martial an innocent man just to send a message to the troops. Fortunately, the officers Weida will appoint as Meester's jury are not under the same stricture as Weida. They are not supposed to consider the unit or the academy's reputation, only the facts of the case. Those facts are ugly, but not grounds for ending a young man's life. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised. Last edited by Daval; 07-10-2003 at 05:53 AM..

07-09-2003, 05:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	I hate women in this country, they enjoy tag teaming with the pussy soft hearted judges and cold blooded pillow biter lawyers to ream guys like myself. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

07-09-2003, 05:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
Zello Crazy Location: Vincennes, IN	That is ridiculous. She told the police that he may have not even known he raped her. Even though she wants him to serve two life sentences? It seems, like the article says, that they are trying to prosecute him "just to send a message to the troops." __________________ Sorry, you can not add yourself to your own list.

07-09-2003, 05:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
Meridae'n Loose Cunt Location: North Bondi RSL	Sounds like the man's a scapegoat, but the author of the article is obviously bias, so i'm sure we're not getting the full story... __________________ What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

07-09-2003, 05:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
tinfoil Fucking Hostile Location: Springford, ON, Canada	Send a message that even if you are innocent of everything except bad judgment, you can still be expected to be hung out to dry. Yup, that's a positive reinforcement. __________________ Get off your fuckin cross. We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

07-09-2003, 06:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
YourNeverThere Practical Anarchist Location: Yesterday i woke up stuck in hollywood	the article was incredabley biased, but i think the other this is kind of strange __________________ The Above post is a direct quote from Shakespeare

07-09-2003, 06:51 PM	#7 (permalink)
tikki Justified Location: West Lafayette, IN	Stay sober and away from intoxicated people like I do, and this problem doesn't arise. The charge is total bullshit. __________________ Take notice. Take interest. Take me with you.

07-09-2003, 07:12 PM	#8 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	poor scapegoat __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

07-09-2003, 08:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
asquint Crazy Location: Orlando	This cadet is finished, without a doubt, no matter the verdict. The community is too small, the memories are too long, no matter what the outcome for him to seriously pursue a career as an officer. The same stands true for the female cadet, while she is likely to continue on and even graduate, the stigma attached will be with her throughout her tenure at the academy and will follow her on to permanent duty stations. __________________ Hi-Tech Redneck

07-09-2003, 09:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	interesting note: while women are overly afraid men will rape them, men are overly afraid women will wrongly accuse them of rape. Both sides will point out they'd never do it (and be insulted by the suggestion), and most won't. Most humans are actually friendly and normal.

07-10-2003, 08:03 AM	#12 (permalink)
manalone Once upon a time...	retroactive removal of consent should be a crime in itself. Prosecute them for fraud at least. __________________ -- Man Alone ======= Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure. Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.

07-10-2003, 08:26 AM	#13 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	Moral: "Don't have drunken sex." __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

07-10-2003, 08:48 AM	#14 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Maybe he should accuse her of raping him. You reverse that, and you have the exact same facts. What I want to know is how this guy can keep it up for 3 rounds at 0.17 BAL. I've barely got the energy to collapse in my bed. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

07-11-2003, 03:07 PM	#20 (permalink)
Mongolguy Crazy Location: My own little world. 'Cause they know me there.	I had the exact thing happen 11 years ago. I didn't get court-martialed, but it did fuck up my Air Force career. That's why I am now Mr. Mongolguy and not MSgt Mongolguy.

07-12-2003, 01:47 PM	#21 (permalink)
isandro Crazy Location: Groningen, Netherlands	It's pretty repulsive how these cadets get slapped around like a couple of pawns. What kind of moral are you teaching when you sacrifice the pupils just to flex some muscle. __________________ -Life, liberty and the pursuit of hamburgers.

07-12-2003, 02:02 PM	#22 (permalink)
RelaX Follower of Ner'Zhul Location: Netherlands	It's cases like this that makes it that much harder for legitimate rapecharges to be taken as serious as they require. Oh the injustice of it all... __________________ The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals. We cause accidents. - Nathaniel Borenstein

07-13-2003, 07:16 PM	#23 (permalink)
Darthnapoleon Upright	that's horrible, the courts are just bowing down to this girl, and she's not even sure he raped her. She's just trying to make herself look like a victim instead of a slut. I have been so careful around girls, and have not done anything with drunk girls in my earlier days because i knew things like this could happen.

07-14-2003, 12:08 AM	#24 (permalink)
komodo Tilted	The slightest chance that I could be accused of rape because someone decides the next day, or the next week, or the next year that they would have been better off not having sex with me terrifies me. It's just as bad as persecuting someone for crimes they commited before laws against those crimes existed. Get married. Have some sex. Woman decides she didn't WANT to get married and have some sex. You are now a rapist. What a wonderful world... I suppose what seperates rapists from these women in my mind is that rapists are truly fucked up in the head- they are criminals, twisted psychotic violent men. They cannot be rehabilitated. Etc. If caught, they WILL go to prison. The women on the other hand, are guilty of fucking up someone's life JUST as badly as a rapist can (albeit in a different way), and yet they aren't punished, can do it multiple times with no consequences, and can choose to do it without warning to anyone they have had sex with. If caught, the accused still has a fucked up reputation that they can never repair. THey will forever be known as an accused rapist. If caught, the woman suffers no punishment and the man suffers for the rest of his life as an accused rapist. If not caught, the man suffers for the rest of his life in prison. Decide that chode you slept with wasn't good enough for you? Now he raped you! Wake up next to some guy you don't know after a night at a kegger? He raped you! Boyfriend spent the night with the guys instead of with you? He's been raping you for months! HORRIFYING.

07-14-2003, 04:38 AM	#25 (permalink)
greathornytoad Banned Location: vancouver	sad, but I'm not suprised. in this day and age when you can't ask a co worker out without having to worry if she'll consider it being sexual harassment.....

07-14-2003, 12:26 PM	#26 (permalink)
MacGnG Know Where!	IF SHE'D DRUNK DONT HAVE SEX WITH HER! -------- they are both wrong, but i guess they have to hold someone accountable.