Spanking (your children, not your monkey)
 

What do people think about the right to physically discipline your children? If you have an opinion, what's your rationale?

I think spanking a child on the bottom with your hand is alright, but beating with a belt or paddle is a little over the top for me. I don't think it's necessary to bruise and blister your children to get your point across.

Spanking a child is definitely reinforcement of some kind. Whether or not it is the correct kind of reinforcement is an argument to be left between parents and psychologists. I was spanked, and I'm none the worse for the wear.

I agree with Plummie. One thing to keep in mind always is that you must keep your emotions in check. I don't spank my kids, I was spanked and hated it and it didn't work. I think all it did was piss me off and make me hate the spanker.

I never spank my kids. I don't think it works, yelling and spanking does not work.
I use time outs and I talk to my kids and it works!

I worked in a mental hospital for children for a while. A lot of the staff thought that all the kids needed was a good beating. They figured they were beaten as a child when they misbehaved and they turned out alright, so the same should work for the mentally ill kids. (The staff didn't beat the kids, but still thought that physical discipline would be the best therapy if they were in charge).

It really depends on the situation, physical punishment to the point where bruises are left is just not right. Although when i have kids of my own i'd perfer not to physically harm them, i always liked the reward system where if kids do something right they should be rewarded. Kids have a psychological association with rewards and will repeat tasks that they get rewarded with.

But smacking really depends on serveral factors. But mainly in the social situation of the country. In China i know for a fact that its pretty much socially accept to hit ones child for punishment. While in New Zealand and more western first world countries that some physical abuse in frowned upon and kids can actually be removed and placed in a different home.

My personal view is that physical abuse is never the answer, its usually the parents who lose their cool and hit their kids. If you can keep your anger under control then you would rarely have to result to smacking. But i suppose people have different views to how they treat their children, and some methods may work better than others.

it definatly depends on the situation, a 7 year old should get spanked when it is deservedm the parent has to decide when it is deserved. after all, when raising a kid, those parents are responsible for the kid being a productive member f society one day, if spanking works go for it.

i was spanked, and at 16 my father got sick of my mouth and pinned my to the wall by my throat....child abuse?...i think not, i deserved it, and i didnt actually get hurt after all, lack of oxygen is all good

I think spidey is right. Howerer, I was spanked but not because my parents wanted to punish me by hitting me. It didn't even hurt. It was more humiliating than anything, and it really taught me (when I was 4).

Spanking is OK, as long as (as pointed out earlier) it's with your hand. Humiliation is teh funny. My friend got spanked in front of me last year. He was 14. :p

Spanking shouldn't be utilized in any form.

Instead, their privileges should be reduced in order for them to under that their actions is improper and can't be tolerated.

What's the use of spanking a child? It doesn't serve any purpose.

I got spanked a couple of times when I was a wee one, and it did pretty good at keeping me in line. That's because it hurt like a b*tch. :p Spanking on the bottom is different than oh, getting hit in the face. Definitely. I know what both sides of that fence are like, and I would say spanking was good discipline for me without the added psychological baggage.

I have kids, and they get spanked. As a child myself, I was severely abused, mentally, physically, and psychologically. I turned out pretty good regardless. However I know a person who was never spanked as a child, who now spends his days in and out of jail, rehab, and jobs, who contributes little to nothing to society, generally a real waste of flesh.

What is my point... I dont think there is a right or wrong to the argument of physical discipline. What matters is not wether or not you choose to strike your child, what matters is wether or not you nurture your child. I love my kids more than I ever imagined it was possible to love anything. They come to me with thier problems, they talk to me, we are a very loving family, but when the time comes, they know that if they are spanked, then they have done something very wrong, and it doesnt happen again.

Now, I dont spank my kids every day.. when they were young, a quick swat on the behind, or a smack on the hand was fairly commonplace, but that was never more than just a light swat, an attention getter if you will. As they grew, they learned right from wrong, good from bad, and realized that when they did wrong, they got punished, when they did good, they got loved. So now, spankings are reserved only for the most severe of punishments, when other methods dont work and offenses get repeated. After a spanking, negative behaviour stops... at least with my kids.

Someone mentioned "the reward system" which in a way is good, but can backfire as well. Case in point .. my neighbors. They use this method of "discipline" in a pure sense.. and thier children have grown to expect and DEMAND rewards, if they do even the slightest thing right, however they also know, and do not care, that negative behavior goes untouched.. so those children act as though they can do anything to anyone anytime and know they will face no recrimination. Granted this is an extreme case, but a pure reward system breeds that sort of attitude.

I personally think the best system includes both reward and punishment. But reward with love, and punish with love. My children know that if they are spanked, it is because they have made a mistake, and afterwards we sit down together and discuss why it happened, and how to avoid the same thing again. They also know, that if they come home from school with a good grade, they are going to get a big hug.

Each parent is responsible for raising thier own children. However we as a society are morally responsible for watching out for all children. Abuse is a very real problem, and we should care about it. Realize that spanking is NOT neccessarily abuse, and abuse is much much more than just spanking.

I lived six years of my youth as an abused child, three times in the hospital, once because I was forced to overdose on sleeping pills, once because I was thrown against a wall and beaten so badly I could barely breathe for 3 days, and once because I was sexually molested and had internal bleeding. No one knows more than I what abuse is. I am very very very careful with my emotions around my own kids now. I never strike them in anger, I never spank without explaining why first, and discussing afterwards.

Ok, im sorry im getting off the subject. If you cant tell this is a subject very important to me. I firmly believe a majority of the problems with the youth of this country come from parents who either dont care, or dont know any better, and more the former than the latter.

im done now, sorry for taking up the space with my ramblings

Ummm...lack of oxygen is all BUT good...grabbing someone by their throat regardless of their age is abusive.

Physical abuse creates devious behavior. They sneek behind your back, and lie to your face....I believe a proper remedy for discipline issues, is the reward system..Do something honestly, truthful, positive...reward. Something bad such as lying, cheating stealing etc...privileges begin to disappear.

Every kid is different. I do spank in extreme situations, especially ones that could have resulted my child getting hurt (like running out in the street after I said to STOP). I don't have to do it very often. I've found that losing a possession or a privledge usually has a greater effect.

However, I don't think there is anything wrong with people who decide not to spank. I do have a problem with people who decide to do NOTHING to discipline their children. They are doing their children a huge disservice.

Spanking should only be used when what they have done is extremely bad... definintly not something that should be used regularly for punishment... and it shouldnt be more then on the ass with the hand... no paddles or anything...

i have never spanked my kids.....never will.

you just gotta talk to them.

right from wrong,etc.

teach 'em to be good people and they'll end up being good people.

Spanking for the sake of causing pain, doesnt.

However spanking is a very real, very "right now" form of punishment. IF it is used as a tool, rather than a means of lashing out at a child, then it can and is very productive.

For instance.. my child is misbehaving in a store.. she is only 5 years old, and has very little concept of time at this point. I try putting her in the cart, but she climbs out every time I turn my back, I try telling her if she doesnt behave she loses play time, loses TV time, will have to take a time out when we are in a place where that can happen, but nothing is working, she is intent on being a little hellion and pushing the limits. I take her aside, tell her I have tried to get her to be have and she would not do so, I turn her around, give her one swat on the bottom, and then ask her why she recieved it. She tells me why, then I ask her to suggest what she can do to avoid it happening again. On her own she tells me that she needs to behave, and do as I ask of her while we are in the store. The rest of the time we are there, she is an angel. She understands her actions had an immediate consequence. She wasnt hurt physically, rather the emotional shock of the spanking was all that was needed. And when we got home, we went in the back yard and played with the puppies for an hour so she could burn off all that energy she was holding back.

This actually happened less than a week ago. So when you say it serves no purpose, I must and will disagree

When a kid screws up, according to adult standards, and doesn't know or hasn't learned about their mistake,fine,cut them some slack.But if the little bastards willfully and knowledgeably make the wrong decision either motivated by their own ignorances and general disregard for any semblence of respect,then yeah..take the little fuck aside and give them a crash course in respect.Maybe if this technique was applied rather than the touchy,feely approach,there wouldn't be as many assholes in the world.

my parents spanked me, and used timeouts. only spankings with hands, and it worked wonders on me. one threat... and i straightened right up. i'll probably use it when i get older... unless i see a good argument not to.

I am speaking as a semi mature adult with no kids and no prospects of any in the near future.

Spanking should only be done if the spanker has their emotions under complete control. Many people do not know what a surge of adrenaline can do to their fine motor control.

Spanking should never endager the child physically or emotionally.

Spanking is a physical expression of how the parent is dissapointed in the bad choices made by the child, but the child is reassured at that time and a lot of other times that they are loved and will be despite what they do.

I am sure I was spanked as a small child in a minor way, but I don't remember it. The key is, that I never doubted once that my parents would spank me if they I deserved it. I knew that I could not play them against one another.

Seems there is a lot of different thoughts on this. Here's mine:

Its ok to spank (I try to refrain from using hit because that conveys the wrong message to the reader). I was spanked as a child with both a hand and a paddle. The paddle my dad made was a thin maybe 1/4 inch ply wood with a handle, he made it with a skil saw. That thing stung more than his hand, and it made a really loud "pop" sound. So sometimes the sound of that actually made it feel worse than it really was. I was never swatted more than 3 times in a row, and never hard enough to bruse or anything, just enough to scare some sense into you. I'll probably swat my kids (if I ever have any) but not out of anger, only out of disipline. I think thats what is important, don't think you should be allowed to raise your child if you hit them out of anger instead of swatting them out of disipline.

Did my parents ever hit me when I was a child? Yes. Did they do it on a regular basis? No. If my parents hit me, I knew I had done something REALLY bad. I can only remember it happening twice. The one time, I called my mom an idiot (this happened when I was little). She responded by smacking me. I never did it again. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting parents hitting their children, but sometimes, it is a very effective way of getting the point across that something is just not acceptable. There's a difference between beating a child and punishing a child, though. And, just for the record, I have a wonderful relationship with my parents, and I think that, under the circumstances, my mom's reaction was completely justified.

Sorry, forgot to say this earlier.
I agree that parents should not lash out at their children purely out of anger. That's what leads to child abuse. However, if a parent waits too long after the wrongdoing, then the punishment loses some of its effectiveness. The child no longer associates the punishment with the action, and instead sees it as unjustified punishment. This has been proven in some research, we learned about it in bio last year. Sorry, no link, don't have time to find it right now. Just something to think about.

spanking causes pain, then the child associates the pain with the negative behaviour and usually won't do it again. But i still wouldn't spank my kids, after being on the receiving of it in the past.

No. Its emotionally and mentally scarring. It can ruin a childs life if done enough. It constitutes child abuse. But to a degree. if the kid is obviously being a jerk, then he needs to be put in line. Its a tough issue.

I was spanked as a child. Hand, belt, switch. There were few occasions when I did get spanked but when I did I deserved it. Either acting up in the store or yelling/talking back to my dad. I never got any bruises or blisters. They didnt do it to hurt me only to show me what I was doing was unnacceptable. And it worked. I cant remember getting spanked past the age of like 6 and even before then they were few and far between.
I did make one mistake though. I once ran from my dad when he tried to spank me. What did he do...sat there.. he knew I had to come bcak sometime. Never did that again.
Will I spank my children. I can't say for sure now because I'm not close to that situation yet but I'm sure if I feel its necessary I will. I've seen the results of the "you cant have tv/phone/computer for 2 weeks" discipline and it doesnt work. I watched my parents do it with my sister but it always turned out with my sister whining and begging till a few days later they gave in and let her have it back. Next month it would be the same thing. I think thats one of the reasons my sister is like that today, she never learns from her past experiences.

It's actually punishment.

I got beat when I was young and I turned out just fine... really I did.

I punish my kids accorcingly.

When I was a kid, my father spanked me. I believe it helped. I look at my brother's kids and, because of his wife's religion, he doesn't spank them and they act out of character all the time!

I don't think it's the spanking, but the embarrassment that works more, so always in front of the others, and NEVER while you're still mad about whatever they did to get the spanking. And always, hand on butt only! It works. If you back it up with love.

My youngest is 16, and I haven't had to give a spanking in over 10 years, I think.

I think i have to agree with the pro-spankerson this one, on the same condition many have already said. I feel spanking can be a very productive form of discipline, *only* if it's done out of love and concern for the child's wellbeing, and not at all out of anger. That's where the fine line to abuse is crossed.

I was often spanked as a child and when I was, my parents always took time to explain that they weren't doing this because they enjoyed it or to simply hurt me, but to help teach me what is right and wrong. As I grew older I was able to understand that.

I will def. take it into consideration when i have my own kids

What a complicated subject with no easy answer! I had two kids; spanked on and not the other and there ended up being no difference. The one that never got spanked responded to your body language and words. The other responded to very little unless you grabbed his atttention.

If the intended result is to change behavior, there are many other ways. The biggest motivator is avoidance of pain. Beyond that the field gets muddy. I think *most* people spank because it makes them feel better. However, that doesn't get to the heart of the issue - the reason for the negative behavior in the first place.

Like I saod, a complicated issue!

spank that ass! just only for really important stuff... dont spank them just cause they do something annoying.. only spank them when it's meant to protect them from doing something that could hurt them

My kid gets spanked when he deserves it. I agree with the reward system as mentioned earlier. When they do something good, they get a good reward. When they are bad and not doing what they are told, they get a bad reward. Spanking is OK, beating is not...there is a big difference.

We have gotten some shocked looks from people when we are in public and we spank our kid. I figure, you misbehave now, you will be corrected now, if we wait until we get home you will have no idea why you are getting in trouble.

Remember the childrens behaviour is different through genetics :p. People in my family have never been aggressive so i'll probably won't find the aggressive gene in me what so ever. But yer there are the agressive children and then there are the quiet ones. You'll probably wouldn't need to smack the quiet ones as often as the aggressive ones.

Ask just about any successful man, with good morals and a happy family, whether or not his dad smacked his ass when he was little, and 9 times out of 10 he'll tell you, "Hell yeah, my dad beat my ass, and I'm glad he did!"

There's a big difference between the occasional smack on the ass when they just got done doing something wrong, and beating them to the point that it's child abuse. The media has done it's best to give spanking a bad name, so that nowadays most people won't spank their kids under any circumstances.... and just look how society is turning out. If anything, more brats need to get smacked when they start causing trouble so we don't have to put up with more of their shit later on.

BoCo would be correct here.

Yeah, I definitely agree with BoCo.
The other issue with parents these days is when they make threats that they are not willing to back up, like revoking priveleges (sp?).

My aunt and uncle have three kids, and all three of them are just crazy. When they do something bad, they are usually punished by not being allowed to do something they want to do. However, if my cousins keep harassing my aunt about it, she usually will give in and let them do it. I mean, my cousin peed on the couch and his older brother. He's old enough to know better, and it wasn't accidental. Personally, I think if my aunt had swatted his ass, he wouldn't have done it again. I forget if she actually punished him-I don't think she did, really.
Their dishwasher is crooked and the door is all dented up, because my youngest cousin repeatedly ran his bike into it. If I had done something like that once, I would have found out very quickly not to do it again. Instead, he was able to repeat it until he broke the dishwasher.
I suspect that if my aunt and uncle actually went through with their threats, or maybe spanked them if they did something bad enough, their behavior would improve immensely.

Ask just about any unsuccessful man with bad morals and a messed up family whether or not his dad smacked his as when he was little, and I bet you will find the same.

Got no problem with a little corporal punishement after that "time out thing" failed

I have only spanked my son once or twice.I try to talk to him..even yell at him sometimes.However it seems that you just can't get your point across sometimes without that reinforcement.I know I'm probably not the best father in the world but I try like hell.My dad had to smack me a few times when I was growing up and as a father now I realize the meaning.There were times when I just didn't listen.No matter how much he talked or yelled I just didn't do it.

sapiens,
you have just proven (inadvertently, I'm guessing) that - at most - corporal punishment is not predictive of anything in particular and therefore, not deleterious.

To follow up on your statement:
I would say that the response given by the successful individual would, on average, be more reliable. Successful individuals rarely blame their upbringing for their problems - coincidentally, they don't have as many, do they?

Unsuccessful people, on average, seem to blame everything - including the facts (or delusions) of their upbringing - for their problems - of which they typically have quite a lot.

Rather than tie up the discussion with a neat equation, you have in fact, clouded it with issues that are quite disparate.

I see it around me every day, kids whos parents "talk" to their kids. Im not saying it does not work but a good clip on the ear really brings the point across.I see my friends kids who run riot do what they want and even kick their parents all to their parents plea of "dont do that jimmy thats bold"
A gentle reminder of what is wrong or right is no harm.I got it as did my sisters. I can show you every kid in my area who didn't.

i would assume then that i am the exception to the rule, i dont sneak, and i dont lie...then again why would a reduction of privledges (say driving, etc.) not make one sneak? i think it would make them sneak more!

by the way, the throat grabbing was at the extreme, it happenede like twice, both times i deserved it, i lost privledges, and as a rule got rewards, but i think that i am a better person from the physical punishment, occaisional throat grabbing, or the flying tackle off the stairs...makes one realize something...you treat people like shit (especialy your father) and you ought to expect something like that....

My brother (his wife made this decision) and his wife decided they weren't going to spank their kids. Years later they decided that wasn't a good idea.

I myself wasn't spanked much as a kid. Not because my parents didn't believe in it (my sister got hell unleashed on her on a regular basis) it was more that I was a perfect child! Hurray!

I was never spanked when I was a kid. I've never shoplifted, I didnt' fight in high school (other than a few self-defense instances where I disabled but never threw a punch), or any of the things that can land a kid in big trouble. I didn't have anything to rebel against. My parents treated me fairly and sat me down when I did something wrong and explained why it was bad. I don't see any reason to spank a child. I don't get the argument that if your parents spanked you and you did okay then it's okay to spank your kids. If you don't die from a dose of radiation you don't go back for seconds. If it didn't do anything too bad in the longrun it's not necessarily doing any good that can't be done in another way.

From what I said, you can choose to take the thread to the issue of whether or not unsuccessful people make internal versus external attributions about their failure. However, the fact that some people turn out fine when they are beaten and some people do not is not the same thing and does not cloud the issue of whether or not corporal punishment is an effective means of behavioral modification. A discussion of attributions we make about control over success and failure is a separate issue which I didn't bring up. (ARTelevision: I do think that it is an interesting issue that could merit some discussion).

I certainly don't think that anyone will tie up the discussion of corporal punishment with "a neat equation." It's a complicated issue. It wouldn't be an interesting discussion topic if it could be tied up with a "neat equation."

I think that there are individual differences between people in the effectiveness of corporal punishment in modifying behavior. I have worked with kids that appear to be reinforced by corporal punishment. They provoke people until they get it and they love the people who give it to them. For those kinds of kids, corporal punishment is not going to decrease the bad behavior. It may instead increase it. I have also worked with kids who decrease the bad behavior immediately when punished physically. In their case, it seems like punishment works. The danger of punishment for many of these kids is a danger of punishment in general. Punishment often reinforces a fear of the punisher. This can teach the child to avoid performing the behavior in front of the punisher, to avoid getting caught, but it does not provide the child with an appropriate behavioral alternative. (This type of effect seems to be the most prevalent in the empirical literature).

An important and related issue is that "corporal punishment" encompasses a lot of different parenting strategies (as BoCo suggested). Even "spanking" may encompass a lot of different behaviors. Beating a child severely with a belt or beating them until they bruise are qualitatively different from a few spanks on the bottom. So, people who say that they benefitted from corporal punishment may be speaking about an experience entirely different from a child who was beaten with a belt, or cut with a knife, or burned with a cigarette, etc (I've seen worse). Because corporal punishment is such a general term, I wouldn't expect it to be predictive of anything. If we were more specific about types corporal punishment, we might find some statistically significant predictors.

A common argument for corporal punishment is "I was beaten and I turned out fine. So, corporal punishment must be ok." The argument on the other side is, of course, "I was beaten and I'm now really messed up." Making a causal claim about corporal punishment being responsible for you turning out fine is just as flawed as making a causal claim about corporal punishment ruining your life. The individuals may be talking about qualitatively different experiences. Plus, there are many factors which influence the development of children into well adjusted adults. Can someone really know that corporal punishment was the one factor, the holy grail of parenting, responsible for their good (or bad) adjustment as adults?

A separate issue that bothers be a lot when I see it in the developmental literature is whether or not beating kids causes kids to grow up and beat their own kids (the cycle of violence argument). (Here, I am talking about something different from mild, corrective corporal punishment). Could it be possible that parents beat their kids not because of the their social history (because they were beaten), but instead because of something innate in them? Maybe in some cases the genes that code for the behavioral tendency to use corporal punishment are the same genes that code for pain in the ass kids who need a little corporal punishment every once in a while (and who respond positively to that punishment).

Generally, I think that positive reinforcement is more effective than punishment in modifying the behavior of a child. Hopefully, you can plan ahead and reinforce the positive behavior so that you will never have to punish the negative behavior. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world and all of us aren't perfect parents. There are always times when a child does something so costly, so dangerous to themselves, that an immediate response with punishment may be the most effective. In these cases, I think that it is important for parents to "debrief" their children. Explain to them what they did wrong, why it was wrong, what they should have done, how they can perform the appropriate behavior in the future, and that the parent loves the child. Parenting is hard. It requires a lot of thought and a lot of foresight.

Corporal punishment is not a "neat" concept. Parenting is not a "neat" issue. I certainly did not provide a "neat" equation to explain all of the issues. I don't think that anyone can.

ARTelevision: Thank you for the thought provoking comments. More generally, I appreciate the thought-provoking discussion from everyone.

sapiens, well put as usual. Thanks for all the effort and thought you put into your contributions here.
Posts like yours give us pause to read reflect and consider. Thanks also for knowing how to handle the various sorts of responses.

I'm not sure how well put it was. It may have been a thread-killer.

Let me tell you that I am a hs teacher and this generation of kids are spoiled little brats that spent too much time in "time-out" or losing their Gameboys for a week instead of being spanked. Most kids that I have contact with do not respect their parents and treat their parents like a sister or brother. It's disgusting. Bunch of whiney brats. Smacks on the butt teach a lesson. There are guidelines and rules, follow them as long as you are under my roof, whether you agree with them or not. When my kids have their own house, they can establish their own rules. Respect is key. However, if you feel you are being abused, talk with your friends and see what they say. Parents are human too and have issues of their own, make sure you are being punished for your problems, not theirs. I have switched to so many tenses. I can't remember who I am writing to. Sorry about the preaching.

I spank my child under certain conditions. 1. Only hard enough to hurt some - never enough to leave marks. 2. Only under circumstances where disobedience would put her in physical danger (ie. running into the road) 3. Not in anger. 4. With a spoken explanation before and after and a hug and cuddle afterwards.

I have found that with my girl sending her to her room for just a minute or two is more effective at least at this age than a spanking is. She is not quite three but timeouts and spankings aren't near as effective and completely separating her from me for just a minute. It also gives me time to calm down if the disobedience was upsetting to me. She has a high pain threshold and can scrap her knee but get up and keep playing while getting blood all over her clothes. Spanking isn't going to get much attention if a bloody knee doesn't get any either. Some children are more sensitive to it and it may work better for them. It depends on the child, the situation, and the parents. No matter what I would never do it in anger or leave a mark. That isn't necessary. The child must always know that we love them and why they are being punished.

Smack them 'till their butts are red :thumbsup:

blah blah, used to be something here now theres not. nothing to see here. move along

Although it's not as valid an argument as I would like it to be, I'm in the group that says "I was spanked, turned out well, and intend to use spanking when I am a parent." Although still a young adult (and single), I think spanking is useful as a psychological tool more than a physical means of punishment. When I do have children, I will swear to never touch them while angry. I will send them to their room, calm down, and then decide a punishment. This has the added benefit of giving them time to think about what they've done.

I was spanked with a wooden spoon, and it worked well. As a kid I knew that the wooden spoon meant I had done something wrong, and that my actions were unacceptable.

I grew up on spanking, my parents grew up on it, and theirs before that did as well.

It worked, and we are all perfectly fine.

Now I know this isnt a fair statement, but I have seen more annoying little shits come from families who dont "believe" in physical punishment and use the "go sit in your room
treatments then the reverse.

Its not to be confused with giving your children a fear, but just a simple set of punishment.

I think it all boils down to consequences for actions. Think about it, what is keeping most of us from robbing a bank? The consequences. Children and young adults these days don't have consequences for their actions. "Oooooh!, if I do something bad, my parents might tell me it was wrong and ground me to my room to watch tv and talk on the phone and play on the computer". "Boy, I better not do that". It is in the legal system as well. "I didn't mean to kill that person and hide them in my freezer, but my mommy didn't read to me at night". "It's not my fault".
Hell ya I spank my kids, but I only had to do it a few times. Once I got the point across, they realize they have to make a choice. Do I want to do this bad enough toput up with the consequences. On a side note, I haven't had to spank them in the last four years. That's my rant. Thanks.

You have the right to spank....I have the right not too. I think my children deserve better than hitting, but that is only opinion.

My parents spanked my sister and I, my sister tells me the story of the last time my parents spanked us as I don't remember, too young.. We were misbehaving or whatever and my father went to spanked us with a belt (70's thing i guess) and he missed his target as I was thrashing about and hit my face. I guess my dad cried for hours and never hit us again.
I will not be taking this road of punishment for my daughter. I can't remember any spankings I received, but I bet i deserved it :p

Unless previously stated, I think the right to spank has an absolute age limit. Young enough that they're still learning right from wrong, maybe to a max age of 7. Than after that, I think that *I* (personally) would only hit my child if he used a strong amount of profanity towards me or my wife (which I don't have... but when I have a kid I hope he has a mother!). I guess, it all depends on how YOU grew up. I know I grew up with barely ever being beaten (atleast none that I can recall), I also know that I turned out alot worse than I would want my child to turn out like... so I would probably be a bit more strict in situations that my parent would be lenient to me about.

Definately would NEVER "Beat" my child, there's a thin line between teaching them right for wrong, and you just being mad and hot headed.

I personally believe that spanking to "stun" your kid when they're young is fine if they're doing something very wrong or dangerous, like sticking keys in electrical sockets or pulling the dog's ears (woops!), but I personally think that striking a child with any intent to physically hurt them is cruel and inexcusable. My mom swatted me on my ass a few times when I was a kid and got the point across without causing any actual physical harm. My brothers, my husband, my parents and I are all living proof that you can grow up without physical punishment and turn out absolutely fine.

I have been spanked, and deserved every one I got, even got away with a bunch. I do spank, within reason and in appropriate situations. Children need direction, I do use time outs, but get laughed at the older they get. I work out a lot, and the kids see it, so they do push ups when it applies. Be creative, be firm, make good adults. We all thank you.

Gotenks came close to my opinion. A swat for emphasis, often on the hand, is usually enough to get a child's attention that something is seriously wrong to do. It should be done judiciously and thoughtfully, not in anger. And by the time a child is 6 or 7 there should be no more need for corporal punishment. By that time you can reason with them and/or apply punishments that they will understand. These work best if you have developed a strong relationship based on love and trust.

I think a lot of us feel that whatever our parents did for us, is good enough for our children. For instance, my parents spanked my ass plenty, and I think I'm okay.

My girlfriend, on the otherhand, who has a degree in psychology, says that spanking is called "positive punishment" (I think) and that it's a proven fact that it doesn't work as well as other types of punishment, and certainly not at well as rewarding your kid when he does the right thing.

That said, more than anything, disciplin is most effective with consistancy and fairness. For those that say they knew a kid that ended up in jail because they never got their ass kicked when they needed it, you are probably right that they needed suitable punishment, which they didn't recieve. Suitable punishment, is not necessarily physical pain.

Beaten, or Disciplined. HUGE difference. Beating a child is WRONG. But not disciplining a child is equally wrong - in terms of the lasting effect. A child who grows up to understand the importance of consequence will be an effective member of society. I was spanked as a child and feel that it was done in a loving and direct way. The idea is to inflict a harmless amount of physical pain and no injury. Never done in anger, but with an intelligent plan in mind. With CLEAR consequences, discipline is easier to project. An effective spanking is reflected by an child that understood why they got the punishment, what the punishment was before hand and that they deserved it. As with the last post, MOST people who were raised this way stay out of prison and obey the law. THIS crap that Physiologists are preaching about how to raise our kids is teaching most of them one thing.....as long as you can avoid the consequence to a crime (no matter how small) then it is OK. Our modern legal system only supports this Junk. In our courts today, justice is replaced my utter nonsense. If my child is disobedient (for instance I might say "trust me when I tell you not to run out in the middle of the street" I want his obedience and trust of me to be immediate for his safety. So I will make a punishment that is CLEAR (not always a spanking) and every time I will deliver, this leaves no excuse for disarray. But in our courts today, in society and in the media, more time is spent figuring out how a punishment can be avoided or lessened than figuring out weather or not a person is actually guilty. I find this Disgusting.!~!!

I agree with all the other posts concerning age - Spanking should only be used until the child is old enough to comprehend other forms of punishment.
But this is often too late an a child can develope a bad case of disobediance is you wait till they can talk to disipline. Many of the kids that you see on talk shows like "MY KID IS OUT OF CONTOL" and then they send them to kid boot camp, there is a reason this really works. Because the kids need to grow up knowing that there is a consiquence for every action. If you are blessed to have a child that responds well to other forms of dicipline - you are blessed. (there are many) I have one.

but spanking if done correctly SHOULD never be taken away from us as a legal means of Child Rearing!!!!!@

Well I would just like to put in my 2 cents.

I am almost twenty years old and I was spanked as a child I can still remember several of the occasions. I do not remember what I did wrong but I do know that it wasn't punishment for little misbehaviors. I was spanked when I deserved it. My dad used a belt and that thing hurt like hell, or at least it seemed to at that age, now I realized that my dad was barely swinging at all, but I do remember that he did not wait to cool down, he just kept his anger in control. I would like to think I turned out good, I've never been to jail, exept to visit, and I'm currently studying for a Bachelors in Computer Engineering. I would like to think that I am a case of support for corporal punishment.

Now my older brother is a different matter. He is currently serving a 33 year sentence for second degree murder(he did a plea bargain to get it down from 1st). I do not recall him ever being treated differently then I was and my parents always made it clear that they loved him and just wanted what was best for him. I guess I would just have to say that in his case he was just a little asshole who took just wanted to have a good time and no responsibilities, despite how hard my parents tried to teach him the importance of responsibilty. Now that he is in prison he has calmed down quite a bit and is starting to mature and become more responsible.

Corporal punishment was not the only method my parents used, they would give us time out for misbehavior that wasn't really bad, but worse than just a little disobedience. They didn't send us to our rooms, they made us stand in the coner, usually for about twenty minutes. There were also times that they would just sit us down and explain to us why what we did was wrong.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't use just one form of punishment, it should be varied according to how bad the kid has been. I'm also trying to say that sometimes it doesn't matter how you discipline the kid, he/she is just not going to listen/learn. It is as much a matter of the individual child as it is the form of punishment.

I was spanked rarely as a child, most of the time, nothing more than a swat, once was like 6 when i almost burned down a storage shed (i was a pyro as a kid). I don't think it was 'necessary' to get a point across to me, as i was generally a kid who hated being in trouble. i still do, actually, so i was pretty much just one of those 'good' kids that didn't do too much to get into trouble. I was also one of those kids that you could say 'no' to and i'd listen for the most part.

On the other hand, i pretty much knew that they weren't bluffing when they said i would get in trouble and i knew what it would lead to, so that may have shaped my fragile little mind as well, but i dont' think so. I just think i like making people happy more than i like doing whatever.

on the 5th hand, i am also a bit of a strange person and nothing that applies to me applies the same to anybody.

Do i think i would spank as a parent....I think so as it is an immediate 'attention getter' but i dont' think i'd go overboard and it certainly would not be my first option. I hate causing pain or fear.

Now, would i spank my gf..oh hell yea :) (sorry, had to throw in some levity as i have known too many abused children along wtih a lot of children who were properly spanked when appropriate)

I agree with spanking with the hand (not the fist) to the arse is appropriate in some cases. Using a belt or a paddle or anything like that is not.

For me when the kid does something stupid that he/she knows they are not supposed to do and that is bad for them, spanking is in order.

Grounding etc can be used in other cases. When your kid steals your car or gets his 14 year old GF pregnant kick his arse :P

for me, spanking was how i knew when i REALLY fucked up. it was how i learned what was right and wrong and the grey area in between. if i did something like tracking mud through the house...i was told to clean it up and if i didnt, i got yelled at. if i took all of my dad's $1000 golf clubs into the back yard and wrapped them around trees and hit rocks with them....i would get a few hard ones accross the backside. so i learned that tracking mud in the house isnt nearly as bad as fucking with my dad's expensive toys. maybe not the best example...but i plan to tan my child's ass when they REALLY fuck up...and i will yell, ground, and use other modes of discipline for the greyer areas of wrong. this of course applies on the other end of the spectrum. praise and gifts for good behavior reinforces what is right and what is better than right.

As long as I can remember, my parents have always talked to me like an adult. When they punished me, they would sit me down and talk to me about what I did wrong and why it was wrong. Normally, this worked pretty well, but if I didn't follow their advice and did it again, I got spanked. This worked fine for a while, but then I just started laughing while getting spanked. So, they had to adjust the way they punished me, which was taking away the rights to do things, like watch TV (as a little kid this is bad, however now, it is an ok thing).

However, everybody responds differently to punishments, some people need the spankings, other people need to be talked to and explained why it was wrong, it all depends on the type of child they are. Whenever I have kids I would like to try and raise them as my parents raised me: treated with respect and talked to like an adult and not a child.

Conversation is definetely the better alternative to spanking I would have to say. Spanking just to stun as some people have put it is valid if only light and to get the youngest kids to realize when they are in mortal danger. Past a certain age, which would depend on the mentality of the individual child, talking things out would do the most good. Penalties then could consist of taking away privileges if the dialogues reach a standstill. Spanking should always be taken seriously. Violence tends to get out of hand really quickly. This is why I think it should be reserved for situations of immediate danger for the child and then only carefully. It would be no use trying to keep the kid from getting into jail later, as some have made the comparison, if their home becomes a prison of suffering all of its own.

i say spank those little fuckers til they die! then keep spanking them til your hand can't take it anymore! then use the other hand!

..nah, spanking's ok, but save it for the real bad stuff, cuz i hated it. my dad spanked me once and i got pissed and hid in the shack behind my house for a long time. he thought i ran away and went looking for me in his car. that taught him.

I think that younger children deserve a little spank on the bum when it's for a good reason. However, my parent hit us for every little thing -a bad grade, picking flowers off plant when we didn't know it was special, eating a waffle on the couch (but not making a mess), running off to pee on a hike- with yardsticks, belts, tree branches. My mother even choked me and kicked me almost to the point of blacking out. This did not help me; it made me resent and fear my parents. Finally, my sister told a social worker (after the social worker had been called into her junior high because another kid saw my mother hitting my sister at the bus stop) thinking everything would be all better, but instead my parents told us we were horrible and that we didn't deserve anything.

My mother recently admitted that she was out of control- she knows it now, and I knew it then. Spanking is something as discipline when a child needs it. When a kid knows their grades are bad and will try harder, or when a kid learns their lesson after being grounded, or when a kid gets the point from grounding that eating on the couch is not acceptable- beating or spanking is never the answer. Always try talking to a child, is what I think would work.

It really depends on the child, but I'm a firm believer in talk first, spank second.

My Dad only raised a hand to me bottom once (and it was very well deserved both times) when I was growing up. But he reminded me regularly what would happen if I "crossed the line". In hindsight, it was all talk but I didn't know that at the time - I respected and somewhat feared me 'da. The thought of him kicking my ass was enough to make sure I thought twice before crossing my folks in some way. :)

I swore at my Mom once... Once... ;)

I have a daughter who's almost 5; we have never spanked her, and haven't had much trouble with discipline. However, that may be as much an aspect of her personality as anything else... she is easily discouraged. :(

I'm not much on physical punishment, myself, and my wife is even less enthusiastic.

Spanking a child is/should be about consequences. Consequences for actions or inactions that have bad or potentially bad potential outcomes. Corporal punishment isn't always used that way by people because people are what they are.

I have about 40 to 50 children who are left in my care (at my store) each Saturday to play games and interact with their peers. I can tell you EXACTLY which children get spanked and which children do not. Of the kids that we have told not to come back due to continual misbehavior, I can tell you that most of them are children who get no discipline and have no fear of reprisal from their parents.

Spanking or corporal punishment is quick and over with. The problem with 'time-Out' and 'restriction' type punishments is that they become more difficult for the parent to deal with. Rather than have to deal with the child, they just end the restriction and let the kids go. The only lesson learned there is that they just have to wait it out and Mom/Dad will cave.

YMMV.

Yeah, my mileage does vary. Different kids respond in different ways, basically because personality has a lot to do with it. Take a look at Nurture by Nature some time.

Spanking should be the last resort, everything else should be tried before you spank a child...but it is sometimes necessary.

Me too. I agree.

What morons! http://fornits.com/wwf/images/smiles/icon_flame.gif

I ran out in the street and almost got hit by a car. that was the only time my father ever spanked me, and I sure as hell never ran out in front of any other cars.

when used properly, physical discipline is good. you absolutely cannot do it when you're still mad though.

One thing that we must realize here is that spanking and abuse are two completely different things. My parents spanked me. They never used anything but their hand, and the only time that either of them hit me anywhere but on my bottom was when I was 12, and I was too old to be spanked anyway. It was the last time that I was physically punished. I only got spanked when I really did something that was bad or that I could be harmed from doing, and it NEVER hurt for more than a couple seconds. It wasn't seen too often, and the occurences became fewer as I got older. Abuse is totally different. It is hitting a child often for little or no pretext and harming them so that it hurts for a good while. It takes place much more often than necessary, and it is more of a reaction to the parent's anger rather than physical reinforcement. I think that younger children (late 2 yrs to around 9 yrs., depending on how mentally/socially developed they are) don't quite understand taking away priveleges the way that teenagers do. They need a quicker reinforcement, and to me, spanking was, and still is, the way to go. Just don't do it out of anger, and don't really hurt the kids. I don't regret one bit my parents spanking me. I am actually really glad that they did.

*edit*

MilleniumZeus, thank you. I just graduated HS in may, and am going to college now. I got tired of hearing all kinds of kids say crap like "when my mom gives me shit, I just slap her in her face," or my personal favorite:"my parents can't tell me what to do." One of these kids' parents is somebody I have great respect for, and I can assure you is neither abusive or negligent. I seriously heard comments just like these from not just a few but probably 30% of my classmates (and no, I didn't go to an inner-city school. I went to a public school in a rural community that is almost completely conservative, not to mention all of the money from horse farms. (deep horse country)). To all of you parents: although it is definitely not my space to tell you how to raise your children, I hope you seriously put some time into deciding what kind of disciplinary system you will use with your children, because I am sure you don't want kids that totally disrespect you.

and btw, beating or ass whipping does not equal spanking. My parents also made sure to tell me why I was spanked, and they would ALWAYS hug me and tell me that they loved me sometime shortly afterward.

Spanking is good as long as it is used as a disciplinary tool and not an alleviate aggression tool. However, in my humble opinion, spankings should always be with the hand (as mentioned earlier) in this manner you are in direct control of the amount of pressure and the force behind the impact... and as such, you can ensure that you do not permanently harm the child.