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Canadian court decriminalizes prostitution/brothels

Quote:

Sex workers celebrate as Canada court lifts ban on brothels

Ruling that makes bordellos legal calls on country's lawmakers and police to regulate sex trade instead of outlawing it

A Canadian court has overturned a national ban on brothels after a challenge by prostitutes who argued that the law forced them to risk their safety by working on the streets.

The court in Ontario dismissed bans on pimping, soliciting and running brothels in a case that could set a precedent for the country. Prostitution is not illegal in Canada, but it is heavily regulated.

The Ontario superior court upheld a challenge brought by three prostitutes, who said the ban endangered their health and forced them into unsafe working conditions.

Justice Susan Himel ruled this week that the dangers prostitutes faced on the streets far outweighed any harm caused to the public by the existence of brothels.

Himel said the laws set up to protect prostitutes actually harmed them.

The 131-page ruling said the ban violated a provision of the constitution guaranteeing "the right to life, liberty and security", and called on the Canadian parliament to regulate the sex trade rather than ban such practices.

"These laws … force prostitutes to choose between their liberty, interest and their right to security of the person," she said.

One of the women who brought the case, Terri-Jean Bedford, argued that the provisions forced sex-trade workers away from the safety of their homes to face violence on the streets. She described the judgment as "like emancipation day for sex-trade workers".

She told a press conference: "You can't imagine how happy I am today because I've been abused by the justice system for a very long time. The federal government must now take a stand and clarify what is legal and not legal between consenting adults in private."

Valerie Scott, another of the three women, said sex workers could now pick up the phone and call the police to report a client who had mistreated them.

Scott, 52, who has worked on the streets and in massage parlours, said the ruling would allow sex workers to set up unions, have health and safety standards, hire bodyguards, and pay income tax.

"We are not aliens," she said. "We are ordinary people and now we have rights.

Sex workers celebrate as Canada court lifts ban on brothels | World news | The Guardian

In a nutshell, an Ontario supreme court decision overturned a ban on soliciting sex and running brothels. This will force other provinces and jurisdictions to consider a legal precedent, and will put pressure on the federal government to acknowledge it nationally.

I think this is a good decision on the basis of the safety of the sex trade workers with respect to dangerous situations of being forced into dark corners of society to do their thing. However, there needs to be an examination of how to deal with human trafficking. Now that things are more in the open, perhaps police and politicians should do more.

What do you think?

Is this more an issue of rights or public safety?
Do you think this is a good decision?
Do you think that police and politicians should now do more to regulate the sex trade?
Will this be a boon to the sex trade or will it just make it less seedy?
Will this increase tourism? :)

I'm proud of you guys. Laws against prostitution don't decrease the practice, they only make it incredibly dangerous for the workers. I fully expect this ruling will lead to lower rates of underage prostitution, less instances of physical abuse and assault, and likely less cases of STDs. Can you imagine a prostitute suing a John for lying about having an STD?

On to the questions...
Is this more an issue of rights or public safety?
It's both, but if I had to choose, I'd say the issue of workers' rights is the most important issue of this ruling. Prostitutes, even in the most 'civilized' countries, are often treated as lower than slaves. Some of them are beaten, they're controlled, they're kept in fear and ignorance, and they have no hope for a brighter future. Sure, there are the higher-class escorts that are able to dictate terms and who have better protection, but what about the young girls? This had gone on too long.

Do you think this is a good decision?
God yes. I won't ever need the services, but this is ultimately better for everyone.

Do you think that police and politicians should now do more to regulate the sex trade?
Yes. Prostitutes are people and deserve the same workers' rights and dignity as the rest of us.

Will this be a boon to the sex trade or will it just make it less seedy?
Both, hopefully. This is a legitimate way for people to make money and I hope that taking it out of the shadows will help to make it more respected and more safe.

Will this increase tourism?
I can think of about 20 guys in my high school graduating class that will likely be visiting Canada because of this. And that's just my high school.

Let's be perfectly clear about what we're looking at here. This is not the end of something, but rather the beginning.

The ruling was made by the Ontario Superior Court. It can and almost certainly will go to the Ontario Court of Appeals, and from there I would anticipate it'll go to the Supreme Court of Canada.

And if the current rules get thrown out, the House will step in with some new ones. This is too big an issue for the government to just leave it hanging out there, especially when that government is Harper's Tories.

I fully support this ruling, but the fight's just started. Let's not all start celebrating prematurely.

Well, of course the feds are going to appeal. That much was expected. However, I'm not sure how far they'll get. I think the cat is out of the bag on an issue most people would rather just overlook. I think the worst damage they can do at this point is put limitations on it. I can't see them being able to put a cork on this and return to the way things were.

The issue is that the court has essentially unearthed a legal problem: current legislation needs to be changed because it's unjust to sex trade workers, an infringement on their rights and an impediment to their safety.

Going back to the way things were would be to deny sex trade workers protection under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and that's the fundamental issue.

Parliament will need to figure out how to manage the issue, as this ruling will spill over and throughout the country. The Crown has already thrown out one prostitution case based on the ruling, and it hasn't even taken effect yet.

The immediate and confusing question is what's going to be done while all of this is happening. The justice who handed down this ruling recommended that the current laws be struck down immediately, and if one agrees with her ruling that they violate Charter rights it's pretty hard to argue (for our US friends, the Charter in this context is roughly equivalent to your Constitution). Conversely, all but the most libertarian of folks agree that the sex trade does require some form of regulation, so just striking down the current laws and not having anything to replace them, goes the argument, is not the best idea ever. I think that argument falls apart if one takes the view that the prior laws were actively harmful, and I also don't think that an unregulated sex trade would lead to the collapse of society that some would have you believe, but at the same time I do recognize a need for some sort of system.

Aside: It's confirmed, the feds are taking this to the court of appeals. They've been granted a thirty day stay on the ruling and will be looking to have that extended through the appeal process (which could potentially take years).

Feds will appeal prostitution ruling

Feds will appeal prostitution ruling click to show

I'm anticipating that this is going to become a major point of political contention, but I'm not sure I trust my countrymen to be socially liberal enough to allow this to go the way I would like to see it go (tax and regulate). I wonder if this is going to serve to further erode Harper's power base, or to strengthen it.

As far as damage done, would it be possible for the government to pass the law that never got passed, and simply ban prostitution outright? I don't know. This gets outside my depth.

It's going to be worth watching, that much is certain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian (Post 2827178)

Are you kidding me? I can't think of anything more motivating to get potential Tory voters to the polls than Harper's support to appeal the ruling or to come up with some new overriding legislation---except maybe the continuing story of the long-gun registry. (Now put the two together.)

Unfortunately, I think the will of conservative voters to have this struck down is stronger than the opposition's voters' will to uphold it.

This is going to be better than the long-gun registry in terms of shaking things up. With a potentially damaged NDP and an uncertain Liberal base, this could be another point of leverage for Harper's dream for a Tory majority. *shudder*

This is a step in the right direction. Prostitution was already legal. The laws enacted to curb it's spread, while good in spirit, were not so good for the women in the sex trade industry.

The no pimping law (living off the avails) is a good idea to keep sex workers from being exploited by pimps. The problem is, any independent sex worker could not hire a body guard, have a roommate, etc. as they would be living off the avails.

The no communicating for the procurement of sex in public was meant to keep the practice off the streets but in practice meant that sex workers had to move into alleys and other out of the way places to communicate... putting them in danger from predators.

The no brothel house rules was meant to protect neighbours from the industry but, again, what it resulted in was a lack of security and being forced to meet strangers in less than ideal situations.

It turns out that there are already laws on the books that can deal with most of these issues that do not carry the stigma of the sex trade. As for the bawdy house issue, it is easily fixed by licensing these establishments and creating city zoning by-laws that allow them in certain areas and not others. There is already the precedent of licensing body rub establishments (i.e. rub and tugs).

The appeals will go through the motions and, hopefully, we come out the other side with better laws.

I've never fully understood why it was even illegal in the first place.

Whoa ... worst heading EVAR!! Sex workers "celebrate"?? L-O-L!! :lol:

OK, no that I've gotten that out of my system ... I fully support this law. I support it so much I'm moving to Canada ... If they'll have me.

Well put, Charlatan.

I may move back to Canada and open a brothel. I sense a gold rush in the making.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan (Post 2827193)

I may move back to Canada and open a brothel. I sense a gold rush in the making.

You're going to need a copywriter with a penchant for puns. I already have some good ideas for web banners, flyers, and coupons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan (Post 2827181)

Very well said.
In the end will out and out street-walking will likely be illegal. Regulations will be put in for how and where it will be legal (red light district/brothel licenses). Escorts wont have to pretend they are just there for "company".
Workers working for licensed brothels will have the rights and protections that any worker has.
And of course it will be taxed. The government loves those "sin" taxes (currently the ones they love to jack up for booze and smokes).

As far as tourism, you think everyone who goes to Vegas goes there for the gambling (We've got that too)? Nah they go for the entertainment too ;)

OH CANADA! I know where I am taking my next vacation...

I guess I'm going to be the guy that thinks it's a bad idea. And that's not because I'm anti-sex trade - I'm not.

I've got no problem at all with independent prostitutes who do their thing on their own. I think it's a great idea - not a service I ever plan on using, but not one I want to shut down.

Brothels, though, are much more exploitive. The opportunity for sexual slavery increases dramatically, especially as networks are built and the chances that the women will be used to make others rich increases dramatically. I see all sorts of potential for bad things to happen in brothels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G5_Todd (Post 2827223)

OH CANADA! I know where I am taking my next vacation...

In Fayetteville, NC there is a street commonly referred to as "VD" ... think about that a little bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xerxys (Post 2827463)

In Fayetteville, NC there is a street commonly referred to as "VD" ... think about that a little bit.

Well, you left out the all important part about Fayetteville being home to one of the horniest bunch of men on Earth: Fort Bragg.

...

And I'm guessing you can't compare skanky American whores to classy Canadian whores. The Canadian ones probably tuck you in and do the dishes after their done slamming their ass down on you like an oil derrick. And they smell like maple syrup and free health care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz (Post 2827300)

I agree that there is a huge chance for explotation in brothels, which is why there would have to be very, very strict laws as to how a brothel is run. IMO one of the laws should be that all prostitutes working at the brothel must be employees of the brothel not "independant contractors" which is what they do at the strip clubs up here where they charge the strippers to work at the club.
The one thing about brothels that would be much better is that it is a MUCH safer environment than going to a hotel or private residence.

Here is the currency accepted there.

[IMG]Canadian Money 3.jpg[/IMG]

---------- Post added at 01:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyfurgang (Post 2827835)

Here is the currency accepted there.

[IMG]Canadian Money 3.jpg[/IMG]

Sorry about the no image. I'm a noob and have 4 more posts to go before I can post any. I will correct this post with the photo later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyfurgang (Post 2827835)

Here is the currency accepted there.

[IMG]Canadian Money 3.jpg[/IMG]

---------- Post added at 01:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------

Sorry about the no image. I'm a noob and have 4 more posts to go before I can post any. I will correct this post with the photo later.

does this help?

Canadian Money - J.J.'s Complete Guide to Canada

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/u...Leto/coins.jpg

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/u...y-close-up.jpg

Bottom one's out of date. It doesn't have the new twenties, fifties or one hundreds. Here's a better one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ian_bills2.jpg

What does this have to do with prostitution again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian (Post 2828392)

What does this have to do with prostitution again?

Maybe prostitutes don't take personal cheques, debit, or credit. Y'know, cash only, like so many Chinese restaurants around here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian (Post 2828392)

What does this have to do with prostitution again?

I presume that it was a humorous image somehow combining Canadian money and sex. However, a search for the name of the image only led me to some Usenet archive locations requiring paid accounts, so I don't know what it was.

Canada is missing out on collecting allot of taxes. The CRA Criminal Investigation Unit has very few if any collections from independent sex workers. Sex worker probably don’t earn as much money as we see on TV and movies shows however they are earning income tax free in most cases. I think licences sex workers probably pay tax. My point all sex workers should be paying tax and all of the payroll taxes that make up benefits for all of us. CPP EI etc. I wish I could get away from the taxman. Dos the taxman ever investigates sex workers for tax evasion? I think not. Who would have enough evidence to report them ? How would they prove that there was money changing hands? Sex workers don’t have a recipe or invoice book.

I work two sometimes three jobs just to pay the bills. The extra taxes would help lower the tax rates help the legitimate economy and keep the money circulating like its suppose to. IMO

PWL