yournamehere

It's not just hair quality that is affected by dog food - there's been a terrible rise in cancers (especially lymphoma) in dogs over the past few decades. It's not a far leap to assume it may be because of what they're eating. Also, many dogs are allergic to wheat; after all, they're not grazers.. It's no coincidence that natural, healthy, wheat-free dog food is more expensive than grocery store brands that contain mostly corn, wheat, and animal by-products. When it comes to dog food, you get what you pay for.

Coincidentally, we're having a bit of a problem with our male Golden - his hair is getting all weird on his back legs, and getting much lighter in color on his front legs. We have an appointment Friday with a dermatological veterinarian. My wife has said, "Geez - we spend $50 every two weeks for dog food and we're still getting this?!" We'll see what the vet says, although he's had this forever. We thought it was just "puppy hair" at first, but he's two years old now, and it seems to be getting worse. Maybe in a few days I'll retract my endorsement of Canidae.

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hunnychile

Those of you who have registered Labradors, did you know that the tradition that they carry is that they always get a name that has part of a boat or ship in it? My dogs AKC name was Cresents Black Mizen. Named after the "mizen mast". Missy for short. Another fav was her boyfriend named "Tugboat" and Tuggy for short.

Cool 'eh?

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flat5

I find it hard to imagine that the 9 pups were in and then out of one animal. On the other hand I don't know when the pic was taken relative to the birth.
Thanks for responding to my post.

Halanna

So much wonderful advice and tips, thanks everyone!

Hmm, the chicken and rice thing, is that white or brown rice or doesn't matter? And the ice cubes, never would have thought of that.

I'd come across Revolution a couple times in books, it looks like good stuff to use. Thanks for the link.

22 days and we can bring her home!

Borla

My pup was from a litter of 12.......another recent litter that the same breeder had was of 16. These were Bullmastiffs too, so they weren't the tiniest things even when they were born.

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yournamehere

Just an update on food here. During our visit last week to the dermatological vet, he said our dog's hair is just "his genetics." But he did notice some other areas that showed allergies. He said that even with his specialized practice, it's difficult to distinguish between environmental and food allergies. He suggested I be a bit more active in my dog-bathing, because pollens and other allergens can work their way into a dog's skin.

I mentioned what we were feeding him, and gave him a copy of the ingredients from the bag (although he's familiar with the Canidae brand). He said that most skin and hair problems in young dogs are caused by inflammation and a lack of Omega 3 oils. He personally recommends Natural Balance Fish and (sweet) Potato. Unfortunately, I've been unemployed for a year and a half; the food costs $50 for a 28 lb. bag. So we agreed to keep him on his regular food ($45 for 35 lb) and supplement his diet with Fish Oil capsules (I'm sharing mine with him - I take them, too). Once I start getting a paycheck, we'll switch him and his sister over to Natural Balance. Or, Canidae makes a Salmon and Sweet Potato food, too, at about the same price as NB.

Because of this thread, I brought up Blue Buffalo brand food, and although he agrees the majority (i.e. the first few ingredients listed) are healthy, in his opinion, there are too many fillers in that brand, and he doesn't recommend it. Don't argue with me - I'm just the messenger.

Just for you over-40 trivia buffs - Natural Balance is owned by none other than Eight Is Enough's Dick Van Patten.

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If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
"If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too."
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ObieX

Most important thing to remember about training: YOU are the Alpha dog. No matter how cute your puppy may be you gotta assert your dominance and be the boss. If the puppy does something you don't like make sure that it knows.

Personally i do not recommend crate training, it seems completely unnecessary. You have to think like a dog when dealing with dogs and not like a human. Be nice to your dog, then when they fuck up you make them know about it. A little vocal bark-like yell like a "HEY!" with a stern look is really all you need to train your dog to respond to. Keep it simple, and don't stress them more than is needed.

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Glory's Sun

Negative reaction training causes more problems than it cures.

Also, if the pup is at home while the owners are away, who will be there to give a stern look and a "HEY!"? Crate training is *not* unnecessary when it comes to not only asserting your territory vs. the dog's territory, but for keeping the dog aware of where the proper place to relieve itself is.

The only type of crate training I don't recommend is sending a dog to it's crate when it's done something wrong. That associates the crate with the bad behavior and can cause anxiety.

Also, one other thing that I see a lot of people doing which they shouldn't- if your dogs runs away from you or goes to inspect something that you don't want it to inspect or jumps fence or leash.. DO NOT reprimand the dog when he returns. You do that enough times and the dog won't come back for fear of being reprimanded. Put the leash on and tighten the collar a bit and have a walk session to reassert the dog with your direction and then use a fenced yard to practice your off leash commands.

ObieX

I dunno, it seems to me that if you want something soft and fluffy to keep around and pet and then put away when you're done with it you should just get a plush toy.

The whole point of the "hey!" is to let the dog know they're doing something they are not supposed to be doing. Once they get it into their mind that they shouldn't do something they won't. Dogs aren't stupid. If you have to lock your dog in a cage when you're not home you have not properly trained your dog.

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Glory's Sun

you aren't putting it away.

you're being the alpha and maintaining your territory.

Any one who has real experience with dogs and with training dogs knows that no matter how much training that dog has had, they will eventually do things to your home that you don't want them to.

Borla

I find it interesting that he said that about BB. Here are the top 20+ ingredients in the BB my Bullmastiff pup gets. I wonder which ones are the filler?

I'm not going to argue with you, I promise. But let me encourage you to look at the listings of ingredients yourself and compare.

Natural Balance's main ingredient is potatoes. A similiar listing as above, this time for NB:

I would also beware the recommendation of any food in a vet's office if they also sell the same food. Not that it automatically means the food is no good, but it does automatically mean they have a huge ve$ted intere$t in getting you to buy it!

/off my soapbox, I promise!!

In all honesty, I think most reputable premium foods are going to be ok. Do research for yourself, read lots and lots of reviews online, and make the choice. After all, it's your pet, so you are the one who has to pay for it, and get to enjoy the results.

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hunnychile

Has to be one of the Best Puppy Pictures of All Time! Thanks Fly!

Anyone else who got a new pup lately?

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yournamehere

Borla, I would imagine he would be against the Barley Grass and Alfalfa Meal - he's not a fan of dogs getting carbs from grain.

As far as what's in his best interest, his offices do not sell food. I wholeheartedly agree with you about the Science Diet scam that goes on across the country, though.

To be fair also, I talked with the lady who runs the healthy pet food store where we buy our food. She is not a big fan of either Blue Buffalo or Natural Balance. She also advised me against getting the Canidae brand of Salmon & Sweet Potato; she recommends a brand called Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Formula.

So - I guess that you'll get as many opinions as the number of people you ask. Right now we're doing the best we can for our dogs under the present financial circumstances.

__________________
If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
"If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too."
It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

Borla

Kudos for you to putting the effort into research. It's already a step ahead of what most people do.


Earlier today, I had a random thought about my above post too. When I was growing up I had a friend that had a dog named "Stinky". Stinky was a wire haired little terrier mutt. The dog never went to the vet, never got sick, and lived to be 21 years old. You know what he ate? Whatever was leftover from dinner, literally. They would scrape their plates into one big pile and dump it on the back patio. And let me tell you, this family wasn't the world's healthiest eaters either. If it could be fried, they did. But somehow the mix kept Stinky happy for longer than any other dog I ever knew.

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PairofWings

Hi Helanna!

Congrats on the new puppy! Puppies are a lot of work but so worth it in the end! I have been a vet tech for about 5 years and I have 2 AKC/ASCA Australian Shepherds, both under 2 years old, so I know a thing or two about all the puppy stuff!

I have never paper trained a puppy, but I hear it is easy.. dogs are smart, they will pick it up pretty quick with the right encouragement. Lots of treats for the behaviors you want! I went around for months with puppy treats in my pockets! lol

I dont use a car seat exactly.. but I DO have a harness for each of them that straps them into the car securely. Ive seen more than one dog torn up or killed from a car crash where they didnt have a restraint, so I err on the side of caution.

When I was getting my first puppy, I spent probably $300 on toys (dont tell my husband that! lol) and it turned out he liked sticks. lol.. so I learned my lesson! They have a few kongs (I put peanut butter in them and freeze them for a day to give them a frozen treat on hot days), and some rope toys to tug with, but thats it! For outside the kong fribees and huge tennis balls are a favorite. So dont go overboard, wait to see what he likes to play with best. Some dogs are into different textures.

The vets at my hospital (one of the largest on the central coast of california), say that raw is fine if you're up for all the work... I mean if you're gonna go raw.. go raw. This means a fridge dedicated to the raw meats and veggies you're going to be preparing, getting a meat grinder if you're gonna control the diet 100%.. its a lot of work! So I feed Innova and occasionally I give them EVO canned food as a treat. Purebreeds have a tendency to have much more sensitive systems, so explore with caution. A bland diet would be white rice and boiled chicken. NEVER brown rice.

The BEST spray you can get to avoid chewing on things you dont want them to is called Bitter Apple. It works fabulously. Some dogs love to chew on wood (one of mine!), so i have to occasionally spray bitter apple on my chair legs and such. But if hes got enough toys around, electrical cords arent going to be something hes going to chew unless hes bored.

For Flea control, frontline is superior.. however in the last few years I feel like its not as potent... So I use Comfortis for flea control and Sentinel for Heartworm/Parasite/Flea control. It does not hurt to combine these two medications (you can combine frontline with comfortis for bad fleas, comfortis/ frontline with heartgard /sentinel.) Your vet will help you with this plan of action and answer any questions you have about it.

Crate training is absolutely crucial. Dogs love having a safe comfortable space.. my dogs love their crates.. When its time for us to go to bed, I say, "Bed time!" and they run into their crates and settle down. They will even ask to go into their crates for naps!

As far as training goes.. i cant say it enough. Puppy class, puppy class, puppy class! Your dog needs to start meeting people and other dogs before 4 months of age. By this time their socialization is set in and they are either confident dogs or fearful / aggressive dogs. Puppy class will help you get direction for how to co-exist with your new puppy, and help him/her be comfortable round other dogs and people. It is very important to expose your puppy to as many different things as possible... babies, older people, bycicles, all kinds of things. but remember, only allow people you trust to touch your puppy before hes had all his parvo vaccines. this is a VERY contageous virus that can either be very expensive to cure or fatal. I used to carry hand sanitizer around for people to use before they held them.. I wasnt risking parvo! But I digress... puppy class!! even if all you can find is petsmart training or something.. I would recommend finding a club near you who does all levels of training.

My puppies have each continued up into Expert Obedience at only 1 year old and it makes such a huge difference in how we all co-exist together. Also, if you rent instead of own, having your dog in puppy class and getting them their Good Canine Citizenship Award makes all the difference to landlords.

Getting a new puppy is so exciting! Take lots of pictures because they grow and change so fast!

james t kirk

Why?

Your dog would be far healthier eating table scraps (i.e. real food)

I used to be like you. But then I had some major issues with my cat and Feline Kidney Disease.

Long story short - Vet No. 1 told me that my cat had 1 year to live and that I should buy her special Vet Kidney Disease pet food (kibble)

Vet No. 2 (recommended by my animal nut friend) in Rockwood told me - never feed a cat kibble or any processed cat food because it's all crap. Kibble being especially bad. Gave me recipe for home made cat food.

Cat is still alive and kicking 5 years later (knock on wood).

Commercial pet food is simply a means of garbage disposal. Feeding your cat kibble - any kibble will result in poor health and a premature death.

Glory's Sun

cat != dogs

they have very separate and unique diet needs.

Buying a high quality dog food that is free of allergens is perfectly fine for your dog. Eukanuba and Royal Canin are the best IMO.

james t kirk

I used to think like you, but not any more.

There is no such thing as "high quality" dog food - at least not the mass marketed stuff. I am aware that there are small niche market guys in the market, but they are usually local and I can't comment on them.

There are about 2 or 3 pet food manufacturers in North America. One of them is Menu Foods here, outside of Toronto. They make Eukanuba (along with about 100 others). They recently had to recall millions of dollars worth of pet food due to contamination of the product. They had used wheat gluten (something neither dogs or cats should be fed in the first place) purchased from China. In order to meet spec for protein, the Chinese were adding antifreeze to the wheat gluten (cheap and easy way to increase protein numbers)

Problem was it killed thousands of pets. They got sued. Lots of animals were killed or have been injured and they can't tell their owners so.

Here's a link with an overview. (Oh, and it seems Royal Canin is also being sued for killing animals)

CBC News - Canada - Ontario pet-food company faces $60M lawsuit

You can google more on Menu Foods yourself. You'll find they make Eukanuba.

Different names on the bag - same crud inside.

Don't be deceived by the hype. It's all marketing bullshit. Pet food is designed to be:

1. A means of disposing of crud they can't sell to humans

2. Convenient to humans. 5 seconds, one scoop, Rover is fed

3. Cheap to make, expensive to buy.


You might think me a tree hugger, but I'm actually a Professional Engineer. I design bridges for a livlng. I'd call myself a small c conservative, small l liberal. But I worked in the so called corporate world for 20 years. I know how it works. You are always aiming to improve the bottom line. There is only 2 ways to do that. Sell more, or cut costs. Better yet both. How do you cut costs with Pet Food? Simple - find cheap ingredients.

Anyway, think about it.

Here's an interesting Documentary about Pet Food:



Try eating kibble for a week and see how you feel. People laughed and agreed with "Supersize Me". Try eating kibble and see what happens to you.

Glory's Sun

Eh sorry. I'll keep feeding Eukanuba and having my dogs pass their vet exams with flying colors. I know that Menu Foods makes Eukanuba and Iams. Well aware of that.

Eukanuba and Iams were never involved in pet food recalls as those products never contained the problem ingredients in that mass recall that was killing animals. Most of the recall was due to wet food anyway.. I never feed wet food to my dogs. I always make sure my food is wheat gluten free.. among other things.

When the recall hit, I went to Eukanuba for answers and sent them an email specifically requesting information on the recall and to ensure that it wasn't one of the foods I had to worry about. While it was a bit biased since it came from the company, I was more than pleased with the reply and have continued to feed Eukanuba. It's not about hype with me, it's about feeding a good food to the animals I have.

Lasereth

Then why does my dog's fur turn into coarse horse hair after 2 weeks of Purina, but it stays silky and smooth and non-matted with Royal Canin?

Maybe it's not super high quality, but it's definitely healthier than the cheaper stuff.

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PairofWings

The first sign of a healthy diet in a pet is a gleaming, shiny beautiful coat.

james t kirk

I'm not trying to be all confronational here, so don't get me wrong....

However,

According to the menu foods site, they did recall several Eukanuba products.

Here's the link:

IAMS

It may be that your product was not among those being recalled, however, it comes down to whether or not you trust Menu Foods, or Eukanuba. (I wouldn't.)

As I said before, there are only 3 or 4 companies that actually make pet food - they just put it in different bags. (Sort of like Whirlpool makes pretty much every appliance in North America - just slaps different names on them.)

Kibble is very bad for cats because cats do not have a well developed sense to drink water (being desert animals.) They rely on their food for their moisture. Normally, food is about 65% water. Kibble is about 7% water. So the result is allot of chronically dehydrated cats which results in Kidney Failure. (So common among cats now.)

Getting back to dogs - you could try an experiment. Feed your dog a BARF like diet (you can find them on the net) for a week or two. Watch how much he shits (sorry to be frank). You will find that when he eats kibble, most of it goes right out his ass because it's all crud. (So a friend of mine who switched to a healthy alternative dog diet over kibble told me.)

Anyway, my position is based on discussions I've had with my Vet who has convinced me. I've got an 18 year old cat sleeping in the next room that was supposed to be dead 5 years ago from CRF.

My Holistic Vet is a real vet, board certified, just she refuses to sell Gourmet Vet Pet Food. She says she could make allot of money selling processed crud for animals, but she wouldn't feel right about because she knows what it's all about. Same goes for drugs. She never pushes drugs. Immunizes the animal once and that's it. (Some Vets try to tell you you need to have your pet immunized every couple of years. She tells me that's bullshit as well.)

PairofWings

I would have to disagree on the idea that cats shouldn't eat kibble based very simply on dental health. If cats live on wet food only, and do not eat anything that they have to crunch up and break down with their teeth.. thats a straight line for dental disease and expensive bills for teeth cleaning. Dental disease left alone can effect all the major organs and organ systems, leading to a very sick cat.

My veterinary hospital sells pet foods.. but ONLY the prescription kind. The foods our clients purchase at the hospital are prescription diets meant to deal with specific treatments and cannot be bought by anyone who just walks in off the street looking for any available pet foods.

The BARF diet is indeed showing signs of being a great diet for pets, but for most average people this isn't within their means.. either financially or time wise. When I asked my vets about the BARF diet, they all very clearly stated that if you're feeding a high quality diet and read labels and do research, there is no real need to get into the BARF diet.

Just my two cents!

But.. Halanna! How is your research coming along? Have you looked into any puppy classes?

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james t kirk

Quite the opposite regarding the cat's teeth.

I thought the same thing as you, asked my vet about it.

She said, the kibble is far worse for a cat's teeth than the animal just eating meat (what nature intended). She said to me, "Eat a meal of nothing but Graham Crackers and take a look at your teeth. They'll be caked with crud that won't come off"

Indeed she is correct.

Furthermore, the crud fillers that they usually put into kibble (rice, husks, wheat Glutten, barley left from brewing beer) are all grains. Cat's cannot digest grains. They eat it, their bodies metabolize it as sugar, the cat gets really FAT, ends up with Diabetes, and the sugar rots their teeth.

Ironically, it was tartered up teeth that led me to discover my cat's Kidney issues. I had taken her to Vet No. 1 about her teeth (she was a kibble eater) and they stated that she needed a ton of dental work at a cost of $1,200.00. Part of which included blood work. The blood work revealed the Kidney Disease, and that's how I met Vet Sharon who put me straight about mass produced pet food. Again, Sharon told me she could make a ton of money selling fancy vet pet food at high prices but she could not do it in good consience. She's right, go into my first Vet's office and they have a whole wing devoted to Vet Pet food.

There is ALLOT of misinformation being put out there by the Pet Food Industry in co-operation with many vets who sell the "Vet Pet Food" or as you call it - "Perscription" Pet Food. There's allot of money being made and they are not wanton to give it up.

PS, the Perscription Vet Pet Food is made by the same 3 or 4 Pet Food Manufacturers that make all the rest of the crud out there.

As to the cost, you can buy a can of cat food for $.69 at the local Loblaws, or a same sized can of Tuna for $.99.

In my case, I just buy a pile of chicken thighs and make up a mash of chicken and fresh vegetables, freeze it, it lasts about 6 weeks. Costs about $100.00 for 6 weeks buying the chicken (boneless skinless for my convenience) at Costco. Not over the top.

Glory's Sun

I understand where you're coming from, and I was slightly mistaken by Eukanuba products being recalled. However, I'm going to continue to feed the Eukanuba that I feed, mainly because the dogs are healthy and they are adjusted to it. I don't like to switch brands once a dog has become used to the food, as it will cause an unstable digestive system. As long as what I feed isn't recalled, and the dogs continue to pass their exams with flying colors, I see no reason to switch.

Halanna

There aren't any dedicated obedience/training schools in my area. The local Petco does have a puppy class once a week. And there is the dog park, so she will be meeting other animals and people there.

I had already purchased a small bag of Blue Buffalo, that is what she is eating right now (crushed) at the breeders, with a little warm goat milk mixed in. She's only 6 weeks old right now and has a teeny tiny little mouth!

We bring her home in 12 days!

That means I have 12 days to figure out how to Flikr or whatever that is so I can post a picture of her.

yournamehere

You can attach a digital picture from your computer. On the menu bars above your Reply window, just choose the paper clip icon (attachments) and browse through your computer to find the picture you want to post. Then click "Upload." There are size limits (100 KB for a jpg image), so you might want to use some editing software to make the picture smaller. At 72 dpi, though, 100 KB is a pretty decent sized picture.

For example, this one of our puppies at 8 weeks is only 54 KB:

Attached Images

01-Buddy and Sadie-sm.jpg (54.7 KB, 22 views)

__________________
If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
"If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too."
It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

Lasereth

The discussion in this thread got me and my wife doing a lot of research on dog food and it turns out, Blue Buffalo has a much higher reputation than Royal Canin on pretty much every review site. Royal Canin stuffs their food with grains for filler and Blue Buffalo doesn't. Royal Canin is still way better for dogs than Purina or Kibbles but Blue Buffalo seems to be the best. We switched Edwin over to BB a week ago and now his fur coat is even SOFTER than it was before. It's amazing what a difference it makes.

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