Does it really matter who volunteered Haiti relief first? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ShaniFaye · 01-13-2010, 09:57 AM

I'm annoyed....

I'm all in favor of helping in a disaster area, but the "over reporting" of Obama/America being the FIRST to pledge help reminds me of all those stupid people that rush and make the "first" comment on places like TMZ and online newspaper stories.

In matters like this what difference does it make who said they'd send aid first? If it had been Cuba, Russia, Germany, France, Australia, UK etc, would it really have mattered? Am I missing something in the race to be the greatest in relief aid?

The_Jazz · 01-13-2010, 10:05 AM

First.

---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 PM ----------

The Caribbean is the American Pond. It goes back to the Monroe Doctrine, so it's expected. If we hadn't been first, it would have been embarrassing.

I agree that they're overplaying it a bit, though.

roachboy · 01-13-2010, 10:19 AM

given the magnitude of the damage in port au prince, the only simple thing about helping folk is the horse race to get something anything there.

you can get an idea here:
Haiti Devastated by Largest Earthquake in 200 Years, Thousands Feared Dead

coherent accounts in a difficult situation for coherence of the what's going on won't fit terribly well in the tiny-attention-span format of the 24/7 infotainment outlets.

personally, i'd just stop confusing television with an information source and think of it more as an advertising medium. sometimes there are advertisements for commodities and other times there are advertisements for political arrangements dressed up as news. when it annoys me, and it inevitably does, i turn it off.

ShaniFaye · 01-13-2010, 10:24 AM

thanks RB...not sure why you're mentioning TV..I havent watched TV at all today and didnt metion TV

I have, however, been reading about the earthquake since last nite....and I think its just plain stupid when I get email alerts simply to proclaim that "we" were first

World's King · 01-13-2010, 10:35 AM

Being the first to send aid to Haiti is another way to show the rest of the world the US is still the biggest swinging dick.

It's not enough to simply help others in a time of crisis and need... You have to brag about it. Giving is more about getting your reward then anything else. What's the point of donating your time and money if you aren't recognized for it? It's not enough to just feel good about what you've done.

roachboy · 01-13-2010, 10:40 AM

shani---it just sounded very cnn to me. i wasn't really thinking either way about whether you personally were or were not watching. didn't mean to make the post sound otherwise, if it did.

btw here's some kinda sobering photographs from today's le monde:

Haïti : bilan incertain, mais probablement des "dizaines de milliers de victimes" - LeMonde.fr

ShaniFaye · 01-13-2010, 10:45 AM

Does that link have more dead bodies in it? I honestly dont think I can look at anymore of those today

roachboy · 01-13-2010, 10:48 AM

no...but it has a good shot of the damage to the presidential palace.
what you don't get is an idea of what's happened to the hospitals in port au prince--reports are that none of the 5 are functional.
and you don't get a sense of infrastructure damage, mostly because no-one really knows about that yet.
so the easiest thing to talk about right now is that something is being done to help, even though its obvious that what help really means right now is not obvious.

Jinn · 01-13-2010, 11:24 AM

No, it really doesn't matter who did it first.

But that runs directly in conflict with there nearly inherent part of human nature which desires recognition for our actions. If they want to be recognized, then I don't mind, so long as the help is being given.

World's King · 01-13-2010, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinn

No, it really doesn't matter who did it first.

But that runs directly in conflict with there nearly inherent part of human nature which desires recognition for our actions. If they want to be recognized, then I don't mind, so long as the help is being given.

That's kind of what I said...

Mine was a little more mean-spirited though...

Shell · 01-13-2010, 11:57 AM

Given the amount of Yank-bashing and Ugly-American comments thrust upon us daily by other countries from all over the world, one can hardly blame America for making it known when we do something right. Everyone wants to be understood and America wants others to understand that our general population of citizens have their hearts in the right place...and care about others within our borders as well as outside our borders.

You ask if it matters who is first? When it comes to the dying, minutes, even seconds matter. Whoever makes a selfless and generous effort, with a sense of urgency, to save the lives of others...matters.

Daniel_ · 01-13-2010, 02:03 PM

Funny - in Europe nobody's mentioned on news or net that I've seen that the US was first.

SSJTWIZTA · 01-13-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel_

Funny - in Europe nobody's mentioned on news or net that I've seen that the US was first.

you will. it just takes you Europeans a little longer to get to things. (insert sarcmark here)

ring · 01-13-2010, 03:26 PM

I first heard of this news here on this thread at TFP.

Many good hearted people from all over our world
(the 'world' defined as: all of us people living on our planet) are scrambling
to help as quickly as we can.

I could see that former president Clinton has been crying.

I know I have been.

Even though I am living on way below the USA poverty scale wage,
I realize I still have money to help others.

Where should I send my twenty or so dollars?

I'm thinking the Red Cross.

Redlemon · 01-13-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ring

Where should I send my twenty or so dollars?

I'm thinking the Red Cross.

Interesting question. Are there any studies on the relative effectiveness of aid donations to different charities in the wake of the Tsunami a few years ago?

Shell · 01-13-2010, 03:53 PM

I'm watching the NBC Nightly News...quote from Lestor Holt, "people worldwide are rushing to help".

For those interested in helping immediately, simply text "HAITI" to "90999" and a donation of $10 will be given automatically to the Red Cross to help with relief efforts, charged to your cell phone bill. It may not seem to be much but together it adds up.

Beware of bogus online pleas for financial help.

Click and scroll down:
Haiti earthquake: How to help - Haiti earthquake- msnbc.com

OR:

www.nightly.msnbc.com

__________________

snowy · 01-13-2010, 04:54 PM

Another charitable option that is well documented and already hard at work in Haiti: Doctors Without Borders | MSF USA

Fremen · 01-13-2010, 07:54 PM

The Clinton Foundation website has a number of relief links that you can use.
William J. Clinton Foundation | Haiti Earthquake Relief

flat5 · 01-14-2010, 01:52 PM

I don't have a credit card or a telephone subscription.
I went to Paypal to see if there was a link to help.
I also searched the site. Nothing.

Baraka_Guru · 01-14-2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flat5

I don't have a credit card or a telephone subscription.
I went to Paypal to see if there was a link to help.
I also searched the site. Nothing.

You can use PayPal through Save the Children here: Alternative Ways to Donate to the Haiti Earthquake Children in Emergency Fund - WPG

I don't know anything about them, so take that as it is.

Save the Children - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

percy · 01-14-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

Interesting question. Are there any studies on the relative effectiveness of aid donations to different charities in the wake of the Tsunami a few years ago?

Google is your friend

flat5 · 01-15-2010, 03:13 AM

Thanks, Baraka_Guru. Done.

roachboy · 01-15-2010, 07:57 AM

this article from the l.a. times this morning outlines some of the many many problems that such aid as has been dispatched toward port au prince and other areas devastated by the earthquake: logjams at the airport, which has run out of fuel; a "shattered" communications system which is making co-ordination about as difficult as can be imagined; significant infrastructure damage--to roads for example; the fact that (for example) initial american teams to arrive and actually get to port au prince went first to un headquarters there and then to a swank hotel popular with the international set to help--well who?

For many in Haiti quake, help is still a no-show - latimes.com

there's no tools to speak of, which is kinda amazing, an indication of the effects of the current distribution of wealth in the overall neoliberal order, the consequences of neo-colonialism in all its commodity glory. there's little to no food. there's no running water. there's no potable water. people are still trapped in collapsed buildings. there is no way to bury the dead. the central government was effectively collapsed. people are getting desperate and they're getting angry.

meanwhile supplies appear to be simply arriving but they're jammed up at delivery points.

it sounds about as bad as one could imagine.

and it's hard to say sitting in a chair looking at a computer monitor, involved with the situation in and around port au prince by way of newspaper articles and such what can or should be done otherwise.

but i can't get the question out of my head: why are things as they are in haiti, not because of the earthquake, but as they are as an effect of how they were. i know something of the history of haiti. it's not pretty.

all i'll say here is that i find it a bit odd---not surprising, just odd---that the disastrous situation there is being framed as a human crisis alone, as if human beings do not operate in contexts and as if contexts are not a function of histories.
it seems to me that this framing amounts to a legitimation of the neo-colonial order that explains much of the economic and political situations haiti was in prior to the earthquake--now representatives of different aspects of the same system that marginalized haiti and kept it so are seen rushing in to try to save these people from themselves.
so we get a retread of the white man's burden narrative.

it's a repellent thing to think about alongside the overwhelming information that's trickling back about a tragic situation--one of those that makes tragic seem a cheap and empty word.

ring · 01-15-2010, 08:39 AM

No, it's not pretty.

These past few days,
I've been hearing others voicing similar thoughts as yours roach,
and they agree that this is not just a human crisis alone. ( Or is it? We humans built
these constructs.)

The frustration & at times overwhelming despair, of ever changing the
way we humans have marginalized each other since....?,
is palpably tragic.

Redlemon · 01-19-2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

Interesting question. Are there any studies on the relative effectiveness of aid donations to different charities in the wake of the Tsunami a few years ago?

Answering myself:
Charity Navigator - Help Survivors of the Earthquake in Haiti

01-13-2010, 09:57 AM	#1 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	Does it really matter who volunteered Haiti relief first? I'm annoyed.... I'm all in favor of helping in a disaster area, but the "over reporting" of Obama/America being the FIRST to pledge help reminds me of all those stupid people that rush and make the "first" comment on places like TMZ and online newspaper stories. In matters like this what difference does it make who said they'd send aid first? If it had been Cuba, Russia, Germany, France, Australia, UK etc, would it really have mattered? Am I missing something in the race to be the greatest in relief aid? __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

01-13-2010, 10:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	First. ---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 PM ---------- The Caribbean is the American Pond. It goes back to the Monroe Doctrine, so it's expected. If we hadn't been first, it would have been embarrassing. I agree that they're overplaying it a bit, though. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

01-13-2010, 10:19 AM	#3 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	given the magnitude of the damage in port au prince, the only simple thing about helping folk is the horse race to get something anything there. you can get an idea here: Haiti Devastated by Largest Earthquake in 200 Years, Thousands Feared Dead coherent accounts in a difficult situation for coherence of the what's going on won't fit terribly well in the tiny-attention-span format of the 24/7 infotainment outlets. personally, i'd just stop confusing television with an information source and think of it more as an advertising medium. sometimes there are advertisements for commodities and other times there are advertisements for political arrangements dressed up as news. when it annoys me, and it inevitably does, i turn it off. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

01-13-2010, 10:24 AM	#4 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	thanks RB...not sure why you're mentioning TV..I havent watched TV at all today and didnt metion TV I have, however, been reading about the earthquake since last nite....and I think its just plain stupid when I get email alerts simply to proclaim that "we" were first __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

01-13-2010, 10:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	Being the first to send aid to Haiti is another way to show the rest of the world the US is still the biggest swinging dick. It's not enough to simply help others in a time of crisis and need... You have to brag about it. Giving is more about getting your reward then anything else. What's the point of donating your time and money if you aren't recognized for it? It's not enough to just feel good about what you've done. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

01-13-2010, 10:40 AM	#6 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	shani---it just sounded very cnn to me. i wasn't really thinking either way about whether you personally were or were not watching. didn't mean to make the post sound otherwise, if it did. btw here's some kinda sobering photographs from today's le monde: Haïti : bilan incertain, mais probablement des "dizaines de milliers de victimes" - LeMonde.fr __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

01-13-2010, 10:45 AM	#7 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	Does that link have more dead bodies in it? I honestly dont think I can look at anymore of those today __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

01-13-2010, 10:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	no...but it has a good shot of the damage to the presidential palace. what you don't get is an idea of what's happened to the hospitals in port au prince--reports are that none of the 5 are functional. and you don't get a sense of infrastructure damage, mostly because no-one really knows about that yet. so the easiest thing to talk about right now is that something is being done to help, even though its obvious that what help really means right now is not obvious. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

01-13-2010, 11:24 AM	#9 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	No, it really doesn't matter who did it first. But that runs directly in conflict with there nearly inherent part of human nature which desires recognition for our actions. If they want to be recognized, then I don't mind, so long as the help is being given. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

01-13-2010, 11:57 AM	#11 (permalink)
Shell Cheers Location: Eastcoast USA	Given the amount of Yank-bashing and Ugly-American comments thrust upon us daily by other countries from all over the world, one can hardly blame America for making it known when we do something right. Everyone wants to be understood and America wants others to understand that our general population of citizens have their hearts in the right place...and care about others within our borders as well as outside our borders. You ask if it matters who is first? When it comes to the dying, minutes, even seconds matter. Whoever makes a selfless and generous effort, with a sense of urgency, to save the lives of others...matters. __________________ ..."Say what you think. Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ~ Dr. Seuss

01-13-2010, 02:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	Funny - in Europe nobody's mentioned on news or net that I've seen that the US was first. __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

01-13-2010, 03:26 PM	#14 (permalink)
ring ░ Location: ❤	I first heard of this news here on this thread at TFP. Many good hearted people from all over our world (the 'world' defined as: all of us people living on our planet) are scrambling to help as quickly as we can. I could see that former president Clinton has been crying. I know I have been. Even though I am living on way below the USA poverty scale wage, I realize I still have money to help others. Where should I send my twenty or so dollars? I'm thinking the Red Cross.

01-13-2010, 03:53 PM	#16 (permalink)
Shell Cheers Location: Eastcoast USA	I'm watching the NBC Nightly News...quote from Lestor Holt, "people worldwide are rushing to help". For those interested in helping immediately, simply text "HAITI" to "90999" and a donation of $10 will be given automatically to the Red Cross to help with relief efforts, charged to your cell phone bill. It may not seem to be much but together it adds up. Beware of bogus online pleas for financial help. Click and scroll down: Haiti earthquake: How to help - Haiti earthquake- msnbc.com OR: www.nightly.msnbc.com __________________ __________________ ..."Say what you think. Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ~ Dr. Seuss Last edited by Shell; 01-13-2010 at 04:06 PM..

01-13-2010, 04:54 PM	#17 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Another charitable option that is well documented and already hard at work in Haiti: Doctors Without Borders \| MSF USA __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

01-13-2010, 07:54 PM	#18 (permalink)
Fremen With a mustache, the cool factor would be too much Location: left side of my couch, East Texas	The Clinton Foundation website has a number of relief links that you can use. William J. Clinton Foundation \| Haiti Earthquake Relief __________________ Google

01-15-2010, 03:13 AM	#22 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	Thanks, Baraka_Guru. Done.

01-14-2010, 01:52 PM	#19 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	I don't have a credit card or a telephone subscription. I went to Paypal to see if there was a link to help. I also searched the site. Nothing.

01-15-2010, 07:57 AM	#23 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	this article from the l.a. times this morning outlines some of the many many problems that such aid as has been dispatched toward port au prince and other areas devastated by the earthquake: logjams at the airport, which has run out of fuel; a "shattered" communications system which is making co-ordination about as difficult as can be imagined; significant infrastructure damage--to roads for example; the fact that (for example) initial american teams to arrive and actually get to port au prince went first to un headquarters there and then to a swank hotel popular with the international set to help--well who? For many in Haiti quake, help is still a no-show - latimes.com there's no tools to speak of, which is kinda amazing, an indication of the effects of the current distribution of wealth in the overall neoliberal order, the consequences of neo-colonialism in all its commodity glory. there's little to no food. there's no running water. there's no potable water. people are still trapped in collapsed buildings. there is no way to bury the dead. the central government was effectively collapsed. people are getting desperate and they're getting angry. meanwhile supplies appear to be simply arriving but they're jammed up at delivery points. it sounds about as bad as one could imagine. and it's hard to say sitting in a chair looking at a computer monitor, involved with the situation in and around port au prince by way of newspaper articles and such what can or should be done otherwise. but i can't get the question out of my head: why are things as they are in haiti, not because of the earthquake, but as they are as an effect of how they were. i know something of the history of haiti. it's not pretty. all i'll say here is that i find it a bit odd---not surprising, just odd---that the disastrous situation there is being framed as a human crisis alone, as if human beings do not operate in contexts and as if contexts are not a function of histories. it seems to me that this framing amounts to a legitimation of the neo-colonial order that explains much of the economic and political situations haiti was in prior to the earthquake--now representatives of different aspects of the same system that marginalized haiti and kept it so are seen rushing in to try to save these people from themselves. so we get a retread of the white man's burden narrative. it's a repellent thing to think about alongside the overwhelming information that's trickling back about a tragic situation--one of those that makes tragic seem a cheap and empty word. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 01-15-2010 at 08:48 AM..

01-15-2010, 08:39 AM	#24 (permalink)
ring ░ Location: ❤	No, it's not pretty. These past few days, I've been hearing others voicing similar thoughts as yours roach, and they agree that this is not just a human crisis alone. ( Or is it? We humans built these constructs.) The frustration & at times overwhelming despair, of ever changing the way we humans have marginalized each other since....?, is palpably tragic.