What's the deal with roundabouts?
 

Some goofbag thought it would be cute and quaint to start adding roundabouts in America, and the accursed things are starting to pop up everywhere.

I'm sure roundabouts make sense when Sir Ian McFellow-Poofty-Blather-Hawhaw is tooling slowly around in his Aston-Martin in lovely auld St. Martin-on-the-Hyphen, but they just don't work when Billy Joe Ray Bob, Gumercindo Vasquez, Shaquinta Shashaqua Jefferson, Tiffany Brittney, and a soccer mom all get there at the same time while doing 40 over the speed limit and talking on cellphones.

I'm sure roundabouts work well where they're plentiful, but they're popping up randomly all over the Southern US, and it's getting ridiculous. I mean, you're just driving along, minding your own business, and going through the intersections - stop sign, traffic light, traffic light, stop sign, traffic light, stop sign, stop sign, roundabout....roundabout??? WTF?!?!?!?!?!

And they're never placed where they really should go - heavy traffic areas. They're always stuck randomly out in some little neighborhood (because you just KNOW somebody thought it would increase the re-sale value of the homes in the area), and they're crouching there waiting for some hapless drunk driver to plow right through the middle of it.

They're fucking everywhere. They put up 5 recently in my area. Nobody knows what to do with them.

It's gonna be like Chevy Chase in European Vacation 'round these parts next month.

Roundabouts are built when the civil engineering of yore is overcome by the changing times. What seemed "more than enough" back then is now considered a major problem in some areas.

Think of it this way: You have a city that's been around for centuries. You can't redesign the whole thing, so you come up with something like roundabouts as a fix of desperation.

I was just reading that Toronto has been considering building some. It's more of a Euro thing, which makes sense if you think about it. The problem with Toronto is there's no room to build them where they're most needed. So it's worse than we thought.

So many cars, so little room.

you're supposed to be paying attention when you're driving.

I find roundabouts a wonderful addition because it reminds me that I must pay attention to driving. Driving is a participatory activity, meaning I really have to participate fully when actively driving. This is why I enjoy manual transmission as well. The more I'm forced to pay attention, the better I will drive.

When I'm just on auto pilot, one gets careless because there is no importance to doing so.

heavy traffic areas only work if the round about is HUGE. In low traffic areas, round abouts provide the safety of slowing down drivers.

I don't know why people have trouble with them. They're really easily dealt with.

Oh, you're such an optimist. Driving is not a participatory activity to these people, it's multitask time. Bluetooth for the cell, lipstick, $5 footlong, etc.

You know what else slows down drivers? Traffic lights. They're annoying but leave nothing to the imagination. Drivers need direct supervision.

...

SEE: "It's So Pretty / Historic" Washington D.C. traffic clusterfuck. I'd rather commit seppuku with a Taco Bell spork than make that commute for 20 years.

As a pedestrian who spends 99% of my "pedesting" mere inches from cars, the idea of roundabouts/traffic circles conjures an image of a maelstrom, except instead of the sea monster Charybdis swallowing and spewing water, she spews one-tonne chunks of metal, rubber, and plastic.

I don't want to get sucked into that.

Roundabouts work so much better than the zillions of stop signs that litter North America. Yeah, they take getting used to but once people get used to them, they make traffic flow far more smoothly.

Stop signs or traffic lights?

Aren't roundabouts only practical with insanely dense traffic?

Take Toronto: if it weren't for the 4-way stop signs, one ways, and traffic lights "littering" the city, it would be chaos. You can't put roundabouts everywhere.

Roundabouts are becoming very common here in new development. Personally, I think they're great. Traffic gets processed more quickly. Bend, OR is full of them now. I don't mind a bit, and I think the more people get used to using them, the better they are for everyone.

About 10 years ago or so now, they built one of the first roundabouts in the PacNW in Lacey, WA. The City of Lacey sent an engineer out to speak to the retirement community my grandfather was living in, presumably to explain to the doddering old folk how such a thing worked. Given that a healthy percentage of the old folk were people who had grown up in Europe, it turned out that they knew more about driving in a roundabout than the city engineer did, and they sent him away befuddled.

Roundabouts are actually practical with different types of traffic, Baraka (and the rest of you). Small roundabouts are ideal for intersections where there is a large flow of traffic on one of the roads, and lighter traffic on the other road. That way, the traffic on the larger road does not get slowed down (stop/go) or congested to the level of accidents while the small road doesn't have to wait YEARS at a stop sign/traffic light to get through. Drivers on both roads must slow down, but don't necessarily have to come to a complete stop, which keeps traffic moving.

Traffic lights and stop signs are more practical for heavy pedestrian areas so people can actually cross the street safely.. but roundabouts do extremely alleviate congestion and the horrible stop-go phenomenon. I love the roundabouts in NoVA for that reason, and there are a handful around here (in Ohio) that are finally doing what they're supposed to as people are learning how to drive through them. (i.e. discovering what YIELD really means, as opposed to STOP or ACCELERATE TO BEAT TRAFFIC)

You'd think! About 10 miles from me (remember, I live in total rural-ville) the powers that be have built a giant roundabout at the intersection of two one-lane country roads. WTF?

This must be your song

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I'm not against the concept of roundabouts, just against the seemingly random placements of them in America that seems to be more driven by trendy fashion than function.

They did that in Farragut, TN not too long ago at an intersection notorious for people running the stop signs. Given the layout of the road, it makes a lot more sense.

Everybody - stay off of warrrreagl's lawn. He'll turn the hose on you.

Not quite everybody. Only Georgia fans need to fear my hose.

I find roundabouts insane. Theres a town about an hour away from where I am that has a lot of round abouts and every time I drive through them I slightly panic not sure wtf I'm doing or where the hell I'm supposed to go. They're weird. I'm sure they do have great puropse and all but still... ridiclous.

I ran into one of these the other day.....up in the mtns beside an outlet mall

I'd never been in one....and just because I was paying attention to my driving didnt mean I knew what the hell to do inside it....it was very confusing for me

I think it's just lack of familiarity. Once you know how to work them they're WAY better than "full-stop" intersections. But I grant it's pretty dang confusing the first time you stumble across one.

roundabouts...errr, they call them "traffic circles" around here and they are slowly disappearing :( Circles were quite common until a few years ago in the outskirts of Philadelphia, specifically on the New Jersey side of the river where most "major" intersections used to be traffic circles. Now many of them are gone, converted to more conventional intersections with stop lights, etc., and the few remaining ones are doomed to a similar fate in the near future.

I actually enjoy it when I come across one. Especially with my kids in the car, since I've been known to just start looping around the circle a couple times until the kids excitedly say "dad, why are we going in circles!" and then I'll cut off to my intended direction while explaining my traffic lesson to them. To put my antics into perspective, the kids also get "overly excited" when we're just cruising down the highway and I suddenly start blowing my horn...of course I only do this when no other cars are around, but I find it funny how some people in the car freak out for no reason just because I'm blowing the horn a few times. As if there was some universal law against blowing your horn even if nobody is around to hear it...except the trees in the forest, of course, they hear it.

I never really had a problem with traffic circles, though I can see that there's not enough space for them in many urban areas. Circles make sense to me since you don't have to stop if there is no reason to, just slow down and carefully merge with the flow. It is self-regulating but dependent on common sense. And for those not familiar enough with how to drive around a circle, I suggest simply adding the topic to driver's education programs...you stop at red lights, you merge around circles, etc.

They've been building them everywhere here in Finland as well. The problem is, in many places they are too small and it causes trouble for long vehicles. Otherwise I like them, they make difficult crossings easier to get through than traffic lights. But our traffic is very modest compared to other countries.

I think that you answered your own question.

And, yeah, I'm not a big fan of 'em either. As "Crompsin" :) noted, driver's need direct supervision.

It's very easy - you yield to the traffic already in the roundabout. If traffic is in the roundabout and approaching, wait. Otherwise, proceed.

i see roundabouts all the time in these old Georgia towns. usually they circle right around the courthouse.

they seem as if they have been there for YEARS.

but, still, i hate them. i would like to turn left to get to where im going instead of doing a full circle. It's a pain in the ass.

every time i go into blakely, colquitt, cuthbert, abbeville, etc. it seems as if the building i need is always just to my left. so i turn right, drive the circle...sharking the courthouse, until i circle back around to my destination.

left: 4 second journey.
roundabout: 1 minute.

call that a roundabout?

THIS, is a roundabout, mate!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/conte...ut_470x350.jpg

i want nothing to do with that, strange.

It's the Magic Roundabout in Swindon.

Here's how you drive round it:

http://onedge559.com/wp-content/uplo...out_engsvg.png

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/conte...ut_470x350.jpg

This. This is what happens when Department of Roads engineers have relatives in the auto body and fender repair business.

StrangeFamous wins. Holy shit!

Hey SSJTWIZTA, at least you could get to where you're going in that Swindon roundabout because everybody's already merging to the left!!!

This.

I find it strange that American's are complaining and disliking roundabouts when the call driving in a circle (ellipse) a race :)
But it's so simple http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Schild_db.jpg

Yours
Zweiblumen

I'm dizzy.
It looks like I'm supposed to drive around and around those small circles
with the arrows, and then slingshot
...somewhere.

This looks like fun. I want to throw my laundry in there too.

Roundabouts are excellent for traffic management. They have been shown to reduce traffic accidents (drivers are forced to pay closer attention), reduce emissions (less idling at stops), keep traffic moving (less commute time) . They take a bit of getting used to but they do work.

It's interesting to note that about 45% of traffic accidents occur at crossroads and many of those are due to poorly executed left turns.

Crotchety old-timers like warrrrreagle and bill o just need to get used to change. Change can be good. ;)

Baraka, there is a roundabout in Toronto. It's on Windermere in Swansea:
toronto - Google Maps

Charlatan, it's west of High Park. That's barely Toronto. It's practically in the 'Saug. :thumbsup:

..Yeah... it looks it....:no:

Baraka... I know, but it's what we've got. If it helps, think of it as Bloor West Village... south.

I have to admit that I was daunted by the first roundabout that I had to drive in in Singapore. So not only was I driving into a roundabout for the first time as a California driver (there are lots of straight roads there, everything is a grid) and driving on the other side of the car it was very daunting. Driving stick with the left hand takes a little getting used to.

Newtown Circus was the first roundabout I tried to get into. It was a painful 5-10 minutes trying to get into the circle, but once I understood the process of getting in, it was never a problem again.

Get off my lawn.

And be sure to walk in random circles on your way out.

I'm a fan of roundabouts, but perhaps that is because I live in a relatively low traffic area. I hate sitting waiting at bloody traffic lights when there is nothing coming the other way.

THIS!

Or stopping at a stop sign for no reason other than there might be a cop in the vicinity.

The only real roundabout that I've had trouble with is the one around the Arc de Triomphe in Paris. That place is nuts.

I'm ok with roundabouts, as long as they don't do them half-assed and just put an island in the middle of a 4-way stop. Turning left becomes an adventure when the guy coming the other way can't see you signal because there's a big fuckin' tree in the way.

I guess those are roundabouts, I never thought of them that way, so I've been driving in those for 25 years lol

That thing I had to drive in up in Dawsonville was totally different lol

Baraka Guru, isn't there a tiny one near your apartment?

I say, forget about managing traffic by building more things: tax cars more heavily.

I agree. The Arc de Triomphe one is crazy and there are bicyclists riding in the middle of it all. At least the pedestrians get sent under it.

I have to go through a roundabout on my 1/2 mile commute to work. I'm glad that I don't need to stop. And it was the right thing to put in. After wasting 20 minutes sitting at lights today, I appreciate them on lightly travelled roads.

In West Vegas there are some roundabouts that I didn't appreciate. In Australia, it was fun remembering to always go the wrong way around it (and to get out in the left lane). In Europe, it was half trying to figure out where you are trying to go and being a tourist at the same time.

From a traffic engineer in the US
- Roundabouts are safer than either signals or stop signs, UNLESS you're a bicyclist or pedestrian.
- Roundabouts work best when traffic volumes are distributed evenly among the approaches.
- Roundabouts can only be used on relatively flat terrain.
- Roundabouts can't handle as many cars as a signal. When a roundabout gets congested, it acts as a de facto four-way stop.

I'd say that roundabouts are generally preferable to four-way stops, but there are several conditions that would interdict their use. They're also excellent for traffic calming (slowing people down), acting as a transition between a freeway and a local road, and solving accident problems.
This is the opposite of what you want. If the volumes differ greatly, it's more efficient to grade separate the approaches and build an interchange.
A traffic circle is not a roundabout! Roundabouts are a very specific type of traffic circle.
The circle should have truck aprons, usually made of brick or concrete, for trucks that can't make it completely around.
That's because there are no approach or lane markings. Locals tend to have no problem, but if your'e not familiar, don't bother.

I can safely say that taxing cars more heavily does offer a way of managing traffic but it does not get rid of it.

I live in a place that has a tax on the purchase of cars that amounts to 100% of the purchase price. In addition to this, fuel is expensive and many of the roads are toll roads (all cars must have a transponder so that when they drive under a gantry it charges them automatically). Owning a car here is *really* expensive.

The Suzuki Swift that I owned in Toronto cost me about C$21,000 (more or less). Here, that same car goes for S$52,000 (about C$40,000).

With all of that, there is still a heck of a lot of traffic on the roads.

That said, we also have a great transit system and more taxis per capita than any other country.

You have a brilliant mind! It was only 2 weeks ago I found myself uttering: "The architect genius who came up with the round-about can kiss my ass with his/her tongue out!"

Classy huh....:thumbsup:

I dislike them alot.....

It is my belief that driving on the left side of the road (keep left unless overtaking/passing) like in commonwealth countries is safer than on the right. Many will argue that it makes no difference, though.

I am yet to prove that. That and this is why I think roundabouts are also safer if they are practically implemented on 4-ways only.

just wondering if you guys are still having trouble with your roundabouts.

are you guys used to them now? are they more prevalent?

has warrreagl blown one up yet?

I think I came across the one near Oxford trying to get home from Brize Norton - I am not the best of navigators when faced with this mess that goes on for miles - realy is a horrible road to try and follow. Luckily I spotted one of those mobile speed camera do dahs, and got directions from the police manning it. I was probably their only happy customer of the day.
I dont know how you negotiate one of these
What do all those wriggles mean?
Perhaps the answer is to put one on top of each roundabout at least whilst people are learning to become accustomed to them - you could use failed dancers from the x factor - would lower unemployment. I am just not sure what that butt is trying to tell me, so it might be more difficult for me.

roundabouts in australia are part of everyday suburban life. they're easy to negotiate and not as hard as people think.

I personally think they are an ingenious way of managing traffic, letting the flow of traffic proceed and slowing people down in certain areas such as residential areas and schools. I dont think that people comprehend or appreciate the thought that goes behind townplanning. I dont believe a municipality would plonk something in for the sake of it without having thoroughly thought out the reasons and consequences of its presence.

I like them. There are only a few in my city. They make sense to me. Maybe it's kind of snobby of me, but I'd hope that if someone wasn't able to deal with a roundabout that they'd hand in their license.

A year or two ago, my city was redoing one of its lamer intersections and was planning on putting in a roundabout. Unfortunately, residents of the intersection's neighborhood complained about how difficult it was going to be to use. So the city just put in a normal stop light. Now, instead of being able to pass through this intersection at a speed dictated by traffic levels a la roundabout, drivers must submit to a one-way-at-a-time, super-long light at a five-way intersection. Thanks, roundabout nimbys.

i dont understand whats so difficult really.. in the UK and most commonwealth countries you give way to those entering on your right...

in europe, the US, and most other nations you give way to cars entering on your left. Its a much more efficient way of dispensing traffic than a set of traffic lights and much cheaper to run and maintain. Your peeps need to hand in their cars as well.

Still don't have any here, and people still refer to traffic circles as roundabouts. I've driven through a few over the years, and they're ridiculously simple: decide where you're going, find the arrow on the sign that points where you're going, and yield to traffic already in the roundabout.

Yes, the real problem is American drivers. There's also a simple solution to that: retest everyone with stringent standards, give the top 30% of drivers special plates that give them exclusive access to the left/fast lane on highways, limit the next 50% to whatever lanes are left, and summarily execute the bottom 20% (or just revoke their licenses.)

But in all seriousness (the top 30% getting their own lane is serious,) saying "American drivers suck, they'll never understand roundabouts" is bullshit. Educate people on how they work and they'll figure it out. I've seen examples of videos and full-page newspaper ads explaining how major highway redesigns will work, they can work for roundabouts. In the meantime, enjoy the lower injury rate and reduced severity of accidents for drivers in the roundabouts.

And don't do this in areas where there aren't lights and striped arms for rail crossings

:confused: In the USA, traffic entering the roundabout is on your right.

This is the way it is in the USA. Entering traffic yields to traffic already IN the roundabout. Just like on a regular highway, on-ramp traffic should yield to traffic already on the highway.

I like them. Cars don't have to come to a complete stop when traffic is light or nil. Signals and stop signs are not needed. There's no one jamming through the intersection at high speed to beat the yellow light...
And there are no left turns against traffic. People CAN learn new things. Yes, even American drivers.
Could we also apply this to any motorcycle that can be heard from more than a block away?:rolleyes:

Lindy

I don't mean to get anyones backs up here, but I can't help myself on this one.

Roundabouts are everywhere in the UK, granted, so I don't know any different. However, I've probably driven over 10,000 miles in the US and the things I've seen in only that short time have scared me. Some people seem to do anything but concentrate on driving, while driving. Lane hogging? Not indicating? Doing their make up? Drinking coffee/96 fl oz double 7/11 double gulps, eating, on the phone all at the same time?

Roundabouts serve a purpose solely to get people to concentrate on what they're doing. Add to that the traffic flow benefits they provide, not to mention fuel economy benefits. Why stop at a red traffic light when you can slow to 15/20 mph, see its clear and drive on without coming to a stop? Plus you can put trees in the middle to make them look pretty :) They're awesome to ride around on a motorcycle, and if you have a powerful RWD car, in the wet they're good to get the back end out at a relatively slow, safe speed.

I found driving an automatic quite difficult, at first. So unnatural. Again, anything to get people to concentrate more on actually operating the car!

But I'm sure you'd all say the opposite and of course, as with everything, each to their own :D

One thing that confuses me is a rural road with a junction onto a highway/ US Route or SR with simply a T junction with stoplights. Why stop a whole 3/4/5 lane expressway to let a couple of cars out? Lazy planning and the fuel economy penalty is very heavy. Especially when everyone drives 5.0 V8 4 tonne pick ups...:D

Just messin...