European women (with pics - slightly NSFW)
 

Why is it that I can always tell when a woman is European by the way she looks? Blond hair, brown, black, blue eyes, green, brown... It doesn't matter. Put here in an American Flag shirt and blue jeans, and I would still be able to tell! I am not speaking of race, and she doesn't even have to talk.

Why is that?

Granted, it's not 100%, but I would say it is at the very least about 95%.

I can't tell the difference between an Aussie woman and an American, until she talks. I have seen South African WHITE women that I would believe lived in Utah if you told me. English girls are usually distinguishable, but not always. Also, I have not noticed that men from different areas look so different as to be able to look at them and tell where they are from. Perhaps, because I am a man, I can only see it in women? Maybe one of the girls on here can let me know if it works the same way for them?

I do have a theory... People who grow up speaking a language develop distinct facial muscles that shape their appearance. One language brings about certain "typical" features. I have no clue if this is true, and I have not heard it anywhere else.

Can you look at a person, be it man or woman, and tell which area they are from?

Certainly after living in Prague. But I don't think it's so much facial shape as attitude.

I feel like I can distinguish between American and Europeans too. I think it's just a case of remembering the times you've confirmed they weren't American and forgetting every time you're wrong.

It could also be that there are actually differences. The minerals in your drinking water can have an effect on your appearance. The food you eat and maybe even as you say, the facial muscles you use to speak the language.

I notice this a lot on shows like Cash in the Attic or that other auction show. I can change the channel, see someone and know if it's the American or UK version of the show without hearing a word.

I just kinda figured it was all in my head but this thread is making me think differently.

Body language is a language, and there are dialects which you learn without realising.

If someone has a deep tan, they're not from the UK. :no:

I'm not sure, but I know exactly what you're talking about.

I always thought it was slight nuances such as the way they dress (European women seem to appear put together in anything) and their carriage. Perhaps we Americans are too cocky? Je ne sais quoi. :p

Well, that depends exactly how orange it is:thumbsup:

There are differences in body language, in facial features, skin colour e.t.c. Generally it's not so much a case of 'shes european, obviously', but rather 'she's doesn't look american, so that probably means she's from europe'.

Touche.

Well put, and something I hadn't thought of.

Growing up largely in Quebec, it was - for the reason you mention - very easy to tell if someone was French or English, especially the women. The shape of the mouth and jaw is different, and most Quebecers will pribably tell you that.

Agreed - there's a grace, poise, and confidence for European women that is lacking in the upbringing of American women (myself included).

That's it exactly, unfortunately. At least in the case of Czech, Slovak, and Polish women it seems to be largely composed of a kind of brassy self-confidence...I've known American ladies who mimicked the poise and dress of European-born women, but none yet who have learned that particular flavour of out-in-your-face self-assurance. Any woman can look like a Queen once she learns to act like one, and the current generation of young Central European women have grown up with memories of the end of Communism and the beginning of an era in which the world was their oyster and they knew it. They've witnessed, and been part of, one of the most astonishing social transformations in recent history, and I think the knowledge of this is a large motivator of this kind of confidence. Friends who've worked and studied in Russia report a much, much more concentrated and developed form of the same attitude, which makes even more sense.

Nothing against our American ladies, of course; the personally independent streak in American women is not something I encountered often overseas, and something I find very attractive. Most of the Czech and Slovak women I knew put a huge emphasis on having a family and raising children, usually starting fairly young by American standards (mid-20s or so), and sometimes go to rather extraordinary lengths to make sure such things work out. American ladies seem much more inclined to go it alone if needs be, and in some ways more emotionally secure in the absence of a husband and family of their own.

When I was in Europe, mostly walking around tourist attractions, I could frequently tell the European women by their lack of bras... I don't really think that's what we're talking about in this thread, but still.

It might not be, but it should be!

Is this what you mean (second case)?

http://img-2008-07.photosight.ru/09/2750471.jpg

I don't follow OP. Maybe get some side by side pictures to compare so I understand what you mean.

When I first came to the US, I noticed 3 things about American women that were different, in general, than either Brazilian or European women:
- American women use more make up.
- American women do more things with their hair (painting it blond, perms, etc)
- American women use less tight fitting clothes, but more padded bras and such.

i think it's the hair and face, the skin and nose, that tell me they are not from 'meerka. and body shape as well, euros seem to have a different overall body shape. i'm not all that great with telling europeans from non euros though. oddly enough, i can usually distinguish asians, if they are from korea, japan, thailand, phillipines, or china. cambodians and laotians and others throw me.

Every region has its distinguishing features. Not that surprising. It's how you can always tell if an Eastern European is walking toward you.

Mannerisms play a huge role as well.

Yes.
http://www.suspendedlaunch.com/dl/th...thout_pics.gif

Pretty much all the women I know are European...

not surprising, given you live in Europe!

it's not just the women. It's the men, too. When I was in Europe, people would speak to me in English without me saying a word. I think it's in the walk - Americans and Europeans have different gaits.

show me examples damnit! im curious..love ya :)

I really think this is quite a silly assumption. It's not at all as clear cut as you seem to think. Sure, there are cultural differences, but differences in appearance or attitude that are so accentuated that you can tell women's origin apart just like that? Methinks you bullshit a tad. A very large part of the American population is descendent from people from European countries, so how does this make any sense? It's stereotyping. Since I agree that this thread is useless without pics, and also, a lot less fun, allow me to try and prove you wrong.

Please tell me where these women are from, Europe or America:

If you need hints, I can tell you how many of them are American and how many are not. Let's see how good your deductive powers are :p

1 -

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/members...1349-girl1.jpg

2 -

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/members...1350-girl2.jpg

3 -

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/members...1351-girl3.jpg

4 -

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/members...1352-girl4.jpg

5 -

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/members...1353-girl5.jpg

6 -

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/members...55-girl6-2.jpg

7 -

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/members...1354-girl7.jpg

8 -

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/members...1356-girl8.jpg

9 -

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/members...1357-girl9.jpg

10 -

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/members...358-girl10.jpg

Not silly at all and while you have some good information to share, you are wrong in this regard. This is not stereotyping at all and there is no bullshit. if you put an American born and a European born next to one another, you would be able to tell them apart easily. You can't bring descendants into this argument since they are already Americanized and have adopted American mannerisms which are vastly different from the European ones.

i don't think pictures prove anything. especially pictures of models. they are so retouched, modified, altered, that's not how they really look in real life. there is a huge difference between some random human on the street and a professionally taken picture of a model.

I don't think throwing out random statements that other people in this thread disagree with is proof of anything either. If you wanted to discuss the topic, then why not play ball? I'm European, and I don't get it. Not all of the women pictured are models. And how would retouching photos change that essential American/European quality you speak of? Well, I'm coming to the US in August and I will try and work out what this 'American' attitude is all about. I have plenty of American friends out here and I don't see it.

This by no means applies to all Americans, but here in Taiwan, I see a lot of Americans act pretty rudely, which is to say, they choose not to be polite. My foreign born Asian classmates, who have grown up in a somewhat "americanized" household tend to be more crass--make sweeping generalizations, disregard other people's space, and order the taiwanese natives around. It's kinda sad. Off topic, I know.

On the other hand, there are other Americans here who're pretty cool. :)

what exactly did i say that seems to have pissed everyone off? what did i say that was rude or crass?

---------- Post added at 10:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 AM ----------

really? they are just average people on the street?

i'll play.

2, maybe 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, are european, although i thought 9 was australian

I started a thread about this on another message board recently.

American women, the ones who are promoted as feminine "ideals," anyway, are generally more athletic than European women, save perhaps for the German and Baltic women who are considered "ideal." The French seem to put more emphasis on "feminine," and the Spanish/Hispanic and Italians put more emphasis on "sexy." The French, Spanish, and Italian "ideal" is softer than the American or German.

Of course, those are broad generalizations; one would not have to look very hard to find examples to the contrary, but I think it is fairly accurate on average.

LittleTippler - poise and grace are not always captured accurately by a photograph. Most people in this thread are describing a way a woman holds herself, or the way she respects herself. An American who has spent considerable time in Europe is more likely to pick up these dignified mannerisms, but will not always do so.

Funny how a thread that seems in my eyes to be complimentary toward European woman has been construed as derogatory.

My heritage is Irish/German. I was born and raised in America.

Before I speak to people the often assume I am from Germany. I don't know why this is, except I am not a typical American woman.

Edit:

When I was in Germany, I had a few German guys that were very surprised I wasn't from Germany, and that I didn't speak German.

...where in the US did you first come? I haven't noticed most American women to be so superficial as you are saying...some yes, but not "in general", as you have indicated....unless you've been hanging out in wrong places.

For the record, I've been to every state east of the Mississippi except Maine, and I've lived in GA for 8 years now.

And at no point I implied that those things are "superficial," or that American women are more superficial.

Beauty standards are no more or less superficial, they just are what what they are.

And to back up my claim, as not to make my personal experience the norm, per capita spending on cosmetics and toiletries: US, 128 Euros, original 12 EU nations 98 Euros (at purchasing power parities, so this takes care of differences in price)


And as far as tight fitting clothes go, all it takes is a stroll to the mall to see that women's fashion in the US includes a lot less form fitting clothes than in Europe or elsewhere.

...i don't hang out at malls nor spend my time critiquing the women there, but i would hardly call the mall an accurate cross-section of the American woman.

...maybe you need to visit Rodeo Drive...well okay, that's on the other end of the spectrum but there is an average in there somewhere that is "generally" more accurate. You've been influenced by the not-so-kind media or just hanging out at the mall too much perhaps.

I'm sorry, but I am not some bumbling idiot who is basing it all on some random observations while ogling others at the mall. I was obviously referring to the clothes for sale. And I also don't get how this is somehow controversial, as I am not judging either to be superior. And for the record, I am married, have an European female boss, and I have a sister in law that have tried to buy clothes at both continents. This is not by any means an attempt to generalize and say that "everyone here this" or "everyone there that," but I do think that there are differences in culture that can be noted in the aggregate without implying that everyone in a given place does the same thing.

All one needs to do is to compare swim suits in both continents, or look at how miniskirts were first popular over there, or how American pants tend to be baggier, etc. And this isn't to say that that is worst or best, just that there are differences that one can note on the aggregate (and it can be said for male fashion as well).

Most reviews of fashion in the print media carry the same opinion (about differences in fashion for both continents):

Review/Fashion; American Sportswear, French Elan - The New York Times

"Americans favor sportswear and simplicity, while the French, with few exceptions, still like to dress up."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/fa...=2&ref=fashion


"“The old idea of the American fit for pants is shapeless, almost sexless,”"

And we could go on and on about how they are becoming more alike, etc, etc. But I don't see how noting a difference is equated with somehow putting either side down. Or are you suggesting that there are no differences in fashion and casual wear between the two regions? Or that Ive gotten it backwards, and it is American women who in general prefer more form fitting clothes?

In any case, I think we are getting off track here. This was supposed to be a chitchat about differences and somehow is being construed as an attack in either. Ive stated my opinion about general differences, at no point implying everyone is the same or that a style is somehow "better."

Sorry, but you're off base here. Ask a Quebecer/Quebecois if they can spot the difference between a French or English Canadian woman and many if not most will say they can and will be accurate in doing so. We grew up with it and know - perhaps instinctively - how to tell each other apart. Personally, I think the shape of the mouth and jaw has a lot to do with it, but maybe there are other clues.

Recently, we've had an Eastern European invasion at my workplace and even without anyone opening their mouths, it's not hard to spot.

Perhaps it's easier for men to spot the differences - as has been pointed out many times, we men are visual creatures.

I definitely noticed this as well. ;)

You could also tell the American girl tourists because they had a tan line across their chest about two inches above where their shirt/top dipped a lot lower.

I have plenty of pictures and could probably make this thread fully NSFW.

The other obvious thing was European girls were more likely to go topless at the public beaches where the tourist girls weren't up for it.

To dippin:
...while you were posting quotes from the media in your comment,i was editing my comment to say that you've been influenced by the unkind media...our posts passed each other...your's validated mine in the area of "the media". I have no comment on the rest as you are entitled to your opinion.

I don't think you can always tell. I think there are some distinguishing characteristics, especially among eastern European women, but it's likely just as common that you mistake one for the other and don't know it because you're not proven wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmaion_Bias

I think that's a WHOLE other thread. I have some thoughts on the matter, from first-hand experience.

I think the reason people are reacting to this the way they are might have something to do with judging people based on ineffable things like looks and attitude. We are toying with stereotypes and nobody likes to be judged against that.

That said, I can agree that a French person's mouth (man or a woman) has a different appearance (especially when in motion) due to the way their language develops the muscles in their face.

If they are from UK then it's not tan but rust :rolleyes:

European Women are HOT!!!
http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/s...10/21/judd.bmp
http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squ...tte_bardot.jpg:devious:

Must be an accumulation of all that "pursing" they do; I'm steadily learning the tongue and I notice the fair-to-good amount of "oo"s my mouth motions. :surprised:

"White people all came from Europe." - 6th grade History book

its not judging. judging is "short people are stupid and can't do math, blondes are dumb."

it's profiling, and that's not a pejorative. is it wrong to say i can tell someone is chinese because they have high cheekbones and generally rounder faces, not all the time but in general? how am i judging them?

germans have high foreheads. does that mean all of them? no, it does not. but they do, it's a physical trait, and when you are travelling around the world and see a guy with a high forehead, it's a damn good chance he is german. in kenya i learned that a certain tribe (i forgot who) have thin noses, that's how kenyans tell them apart, i learned this from a kenyan. they told me which tribe has nappy hair, which has a thin nose, etc.

wanna get even more esoteric? ask anyone who's been in the military if they can tell an officer from an enlisted in civilian clothes. 99% can, because of how they dress, how they act.

army guys can tell who is in the special forces because of how he dresses and acts.

it's not judging, it's just recognizing, consciously or unconsciously, different groups of people. a simple, interesting thing, something fun to talk about.

wanna know how to tell an american outside of america? the shoes.

damn.

The way you explained your reasoning, even though it was necessary at all in my opinion, would make abaya (our resident sociological anthropologist) fall madly in love with you. Hell, even I'm wondering what you are doing as a single man. :expressionless:

Isn't that top pic Ashley Judd?

...Squeeb, dippin was not referring to physical features of various nationalities that we're born with. He's steroptyping American women as wearing more make-up, "painting" their permed hair blond, and wearing baggy clothes and padded bras....as opposed to Brazilians and Europeans

How am I stereotyping? I am not doing any oversimplifications, or saying that it is universal, nor am I making any sort of value judgment. Beauty standards are what they are, and if you think any of that is inherently negative, that is your problem, not mine.

The idea that any comment about a group of people is inherently stereotypical is silly. We can talk about general cultural differences, and doing so doesn't mean one is reducing a complex collective picture to a caricature of reality.

In fact, we talk about collective aspects of groups of people all the time, without reducing them to that difference or ignoring variation within a group.

Ignoring that there are cultural differences across nations and groups is ethnocentric at the least.

Now, whatever made you feel so disrespected from my post is entirely in your head. I've yet to see how noting that American women, on average, use more make up or more hair products than women in the largest European nations is some how stereotyping or offensive. If for no other reason than the fact that it is an observation that is backed up by actual market data!

Similarly, fashion (and Im not talking about haute couture here, but every day style) is a collective phenomena that can be easily observed and tracked. Or are you going to say that there is no difference between what you'd expect to see in a beach in Destin, FL and what you'd see in Mallorca, Spain?

So, once again, whatever value judgments you got from my posts are all in your head, and I'd appreciate it if you still feel insulted by my post that you actually spell out what you have a problem with, instead of little passive aggressive posts that try to suggest something I did not at any point suggest.

Yes, it is. And I've seen that movie.

Perhaps a more suitable word would be overgeneralizing? If American women wear too much makeup and color their hair, then it follows that European women bathe once a week and use perfume to cover their body odor. Gimme a break. The idea that any comment about a group of people is anything other than complacency and fosters biases is ludicrous.

If your proclamation makes something a beauty standard, that's definitely not Shell's problem.

...jewels, thank you.


:rose:

Hi,

I wasn't going to come back to this thread but I decided I should. You'll notice my first response was actually light hearted, at least to me. I said I thought the assumption was silly to a degree, though I can accept you may be able to distinguish some women's origin at times. Sure, some are more obvious. I just don't tend to agree with sweeping generalizations. I don't like to perpetuate the notion that American women are this or European women are that. More and more, everything is mixed, intertwined, connected.

I then proceeded to go to the trouble to get some pics in the thread, which I thought could be fun, and even interesting. Sorry if I couldn't get pics of only run of the mill women, but models are also just people so I thought, since this wasn't such a serious topic, that they'd do ok. I'm not sure where you're reading that anyone is pissed off. Maybe some people don't totally agree, is all. I don't think you need to feel so defensive about it.

I find that the direct responses to my first post are pretty harsh and do not accept my point of view almost at all. So maybe I'm the one who should feel slighted. After all, I'm one of the 'European women' being spoken about here and I don't like being lumped into a group and have people brag how they can tell where I'm from without my even opening my mouth. But maybe I'm an exception. I have been perfectly fluent in English since I was 4 and so I possibly don't have that whole mouth and jaw shape that conventional European people have :\ I realize some people are 'praising' 'European women'. But there is just something strange about the whole idea.

I'm sorry if this thread has devolved, through any fault of my own. I also want to say that I appreciate your contributions to the TFP. I think more than anything, there has just been a small misunderstanding, which can easily be put right.

I could have done this by PM but I prefer to be open about things.

Also, if anyone is interested, here is the list of nationalities for the girls I posted - maybe it will give some of you a laugh.

1 Portuguese
2 American
3 Russian
4 Ukranian
5 Dutch
6 Brazilian
7 Italian
8 Italian
9 Canadian
10 American

(yes, two girls are neither)

Was #2 Megan Fox, 'cause that's the only one I even hinted at guessing.

I think almost every time I hear "European women", it ends up being about Polish/Czech/Roumanian/... women.
Because that is the geographical area of women this, again, is about.

I gather that a lot of guys from the US consider Sweden/Denmark an entity on it's own, UK to still be the backyard of America, and Italy/Spain/... to be a weirdly distant latino colony?


And yes, they do tend to have a very frank and direct approach towards men. If you only like to be the hunter on the prowl for women, you might actually feel threatened around those parts :)
However, as always, not every one of them is like this.

who said anything about "too much?"

Again, you are seeing things you want to see. My original post only said that in my experience Ive noticed that American women use more make up than European women, something I backed up with relevant statistics. The idea that that makes them "superficial" as shell accused me of claiming is no where in my posts, and comes straight from any associations she can make. Similarly, the idea that it is "too much" make up comes solely from your head, as I never said that either.

And the idea that any statement about a group of people is inherently biased is incredibly shortsighted. Anthropology, sociology, history and even a part of economics all are based on the notion that a society is more than just the sum of its individual parts, and that there is something bigger that comes from societal interaction, something that we can only notice at the macro level. You know, culture, basically. There are a number of things that we can say about any group of people without implying that everyone in that group believes or behaves a certain way, but saying that a majority do.

We can talk about how French culture is more exclusionary of cultural symbols and styles that are associated with lower classes given its aristocratic history, like Bourdieu wrote about when he talked about certain things being class markers, and we can talk about how in the US, its more egalitarian history of small land owners has made so called "omnivores" more high status, as we can see from the rise of hip hop fashion, and as such American fashion is more accepting of informality.

And we can talk about a multitude of over things that are true in the macro level without necessarily being true for every individual. We can talk about hip hop being more popular in the US than in Europe and talk about the influence of black culture on American music, of soccer being more popular in Europe than the US given how it was spread by the British at a time the US was out of its sphere of influence, and that cosmetics are more popular in the US than in Europe. The idea that I defended a certain beauty standard, that I implied that the American beauty standard is superficial, or inferior, are not present in any of my posts, and are conclusions that she (and you) are drawing without any backing from my posts.

Well hell, I come back to check on this thread and damn. Look what happened. Perhaps I was a little too vague when I wrote the thread, I guess what it really comes down to is that can tell when a woman is not American. No voice, strip her naked if you will (hell, I'd prefer it!), white room with no windows, no movement.. blah blah blah, I can look at her and with a 95% certainty tell you if she is American or not. Its all about the face. Can I tell you she is from Belgium, or Norway, or Ukraine? Hell no. But "European" yes.

I meant no disrespect when I made this thread, perhaps I didn't understand that "European" was not something you would want to be lumped into. Perhaps calling someone "European" is an insult in Europe? These are things I need to meditate on.

After careful meditation I have come to the conclusion that from now on I will not call women from Europe "European Women". I will call them "Non-American Women" Although this might cause problems with the Asian/African demographic, so I am just not sure what to call anyone anymore. Obviously I can't just call all women -"women" if I am referring to the location of said women.

I am going to be honest here when I say that Bobby is the cause for all of this! I opened his thread here: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/titty-b...04-lineup.html
(NSFW!)
If you watch the video herein, pause it at the 20 second mark (before they start to get naked) I KNEW that they were all from European countries. They didn't talk, they barely moved... I don't know, it's just in their faces.

Okay, that sounds horrible, I am not being racist here! I think I am just going to suht up for now.

Certainly, there are physical (physiognomical??) traits that are more common among people (not just women) in their respective regions. It's definitely something that can be attributed to genetics and possibly facial muscles due to local languages although probably very subtle in this regard. General health and diet are also a factor.

I've also noticed that these "features" are more pronounced in Eastern European countries. Although, it's not always the case. I'm sure if I visited one of these countries I'd see just as many people who don't have these features ... maybe.

EDIT: In the case of models and actresses they are specifically chosen to look like an ideal (ie. they all look the same). They are as generic as possible. So unless the advertiser or movie is going for that "Eastern European Look," for instance, it's pretty difficult to tell. Even models from Russia or other parts of Eastern Europe who have the particular features usually attributed to that region can be made to look generic with makeup; lighting and Photoshop.

Not to say that American women or Western European women are generic (far from it); but those places generally set the bar for "what we want to see."

Crack: not an insult at all.

Just that the geography is so diverse that you go 500 miles in either direction and you'll wind up with noticeable difference in facial features, taken on average.
Something that as far as I gather in the US is unheard of.

This.

... and ROFL. I do not pretend to know where anyione is froom simply by looking at them, except of course, Crompsin's writing, I can spot it a mile away.

Perspective with apologies. Somehow, the inference was there based on the demeanor of your entire post.

Apologies, again. I didn't appreciate the tone of your second post and thusly responded to certain attacks you made on others' opinions and thought processes which I perceived as rather rude.

When you're right you're right, what can I say?

I thought every body was from Africa, once upon a time.

I wanted to make this reply a few days ago when the thread was fresh but I got a little busy remodeling my house.

Pictures can be deceiving. One of the women pictured is Snejana Onopka. She's Ukrainian but in the picture I would have guessed French. You can look at her wiki and see a picture of her with no/little makeup un-posed and she looks absolutely nothing like the picture LT posted.

LT, I don't think it''s a bad thing that people can distinguish American from European. I mean, we can instantly distinguish Asians from Caucasians. Hell, Chinese and Japanese can tell each other apart so I'm told. I think I can tell a black person from the Greater Antilles from a black African or an African American slave descendant. It's definitely not fool proof but assuming someone's origin is not racist.