Bylaw stories requested - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tirian · 05-28-2009, 01:22 PM

At the following link this story has been brought to my attention...

I make this post as a request for information, not necessarily to discuss the story at hand. (although there's likely no harm in doing so)

Home: No place for Bible study

A San Diego pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a county official and warned they will face escalating fines if they continue to hold Bible studies in their home.

...

She says she was then told, however, that she must stop holding "religious assemblies" until she and her husband obtain a Major Use Permit from the county, a permit that often involves traffic and environmental studies, compliance with parking and sidewalk regulations and costs that top tens of thousands of dollars.

...

There is more to the article, but my condensed version is that the writer of the story is suggesting the city is enforcing a bylaw against the couple due to the religious nature of the meetings, and not due to possible contraventions of the bylaws of the city.

For balance, I wonder if anyone can point me to published stories of bylaw enforcing land use laws in residential zones that do not involve religion in any way. For instance, regular gatherings of a secular meeting in a home, home business using too much parking, etc.

I'd be interested in reading press stories of this nature as well.

Thanks.

shakran · 05-28-2009, 01:27 PM

just do a google search for book club meetings. You're bound to find announcements of times and places for them. I would bet if you did enough legwork you'd find a book club that meets in that very town, and could then ask City Hall why the book club gets to meet and the religious book club does not. The next question would be "how many people are allowed to gather in a private home before you declare it an unlawful assembly?"

The followup questions are "Are you aware that freedom to assemble is a basic constitutional right, as is the right of the people to be free from arbitrary restrictions on their religious practices, especially within their own private homes?" and "so have you guys heard of the Constitution?"

Cynthetiq · 05-28-2009, 01:29 PM

First and foremost, police enforce the laws, judges interpret them.

Since this is in CA and most people drive separate cars, 15 people could easily produce 15 cars to park in the neighborhood. It could and would be disruptive to the other neighbors.

Since zoning laws are very particular and don't include mixed use or dual zones, it's not acceptable to create traffic for neighbors on a weekly basis. Even if you had parties at your house each and every weekend, you may get a visit from the local police.

There's also occupancy laws, insurance considerations as well.

I think that it's shortsighted to think that it's a pattern until there's actually a pattern to show religious prejudice.

SabrinaFair · 05-28-2009, 07:11 PM

My guess would be that there's probably a zoning ordinance about certain-size gatherings in residential areas. If it's content-based (specifically targeting religious groups) then it's unconstitutional. If it's a neutral, then it's probably going to stand.

ASU2003 · 05-28-2009, 07:23 PM

See if you can find any college towns that have laws against the number of people that can be inside of a house? Or most places have fire codes that only allow a certain number of people in one dwelling.

MSD · 05-29-2009, 06:33 AM

You want to find abuse of local ordinances? Look up swingers clubs meeting at homes. People will resort to anything to get rid of them, including accusing them of organized pedophilia and child abuse. Usually they get them for running a business if there's a cover charge or membership fee.

kutulu · 05-29-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

Since this is in CA and most people drive separate cars, 15 people could easily produce 15 cars to park in the neighborhood. It could and would be disruptive to the other neighbors.

Since zoning laws are very particular and don't include mixed use or dual zones, it's not acceptable to create traffic for neighbors on a weekly basis. Even if you had parties at your house each and every weekend, you may get a visit from the local police.

That's a really good point. I'm sure this issue has been promoted to no end by the oppressed Christians and I doubt any of them brought this up.

Tirian · 06-03-2009, 08:33 PM

yes to all of the above comments, but I am looking for news stories of these bylaws being enforced in reference to non-christian gatherings.

Thanks

05-28-2009, 01:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
Tirian Addict Location: Canada	Bylaw stories requested At the following link this story has been brought to my attention... I make this post as a request for information, not necessarily to discuss the story at hand. (although there's likely no harm in doing so) Home: No place for Bible study A San Diego pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a county official and warned they will face escalating fines if they continue to hold Bible studies in their home. ... She says she was then told, however, that she must stop holding "religious assemblies" until she and her husband obtain a Major Use Permit from the county, a permit that often involves traffic and environmental studies, compliance with parking and sidewalk regulations and costs that top tens of thousands of dollars. ... There is more to the article, but my condensed version is that the writer of the story is suggesting the city is enforcing a bylaw against the couple due to the religious nature of the meetings, and not due to possible contraventions of the bylaws of the city. For balance, I wonder if anyone can point me to published stories of bylaw enforcing land use laws in residential zones that do not involve religion in any way. For instance, regular gatherings of a secular meeting in a home, home business using too much parking, etc. I'd be interested in reading press stories of this nature as well. Thanks.

05-28-2009, 01:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	First and foremost, police enforce the laws, judges interpret them. Since this is in CA and most people drive separate cars, 15 people could easily produce 15 cars to park in the neighborhood. It could and would be disruptive to the other neighbors. Since zoning laws are very particular and don't include mixed use or dual zones, it's not acceptable to create traffic for neighbors on a weekly basis. Even if you had parties at your house each and every weekend, you may get a visit from the local police. There's also occupancy laws, insurance considerations as well. I think that it's shortsighted to think that it's a pattern until there's actually a pattern to show religious prejudice. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

05-28-2009, 07:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
SabrinaFair Junkie Location: Louisville, KY	My guess would be that there's probably a zoning ordinance about certain-size gatherings in residential areas. If it's content-based (specifically targeting religious groups) then it's unconstitutional. If it's a neutral, then it's probably going to stand. __________________ "With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy." -Desiderata

05-28-2009, 01:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	just do a google search for book club meetings. You're bound to find announcements of times and places for them. I would bet if you did enough legwork you'd find a book club that meets in that very town, and could then ask City Hall why the book club gets to meet and the religious book club does not. The next question would be "how many people are allowed to gather in a private home before you declare it an unlawful assembly?" The followup questions are "Are you aware that freedom to assemble is a basic constitutional right, as is the right of the people to be free from arbitrary restrictions on their religious practices, especially within their own private homes?" and "so have you guys heard of the Constitution?"

05-28-2009, 07:23 PM	#5 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	See if you can find any college towns that have laws against the number of people that can be inside of a house? Or most places have fire codes that only allow a certain number of people in one dwelling.

05-29-2009, 06:33 AM	#6 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	You want to find abuse of local ordinances? Look up swingers clubs meeting at homes. People will resort to anything to get rid of them, including accusing them of organized pedophilia and child abuse. Usually they get them for running a business if there's a cover charge or membership fee.

06-03-2009, 08:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tirian Addict Location: Canada	yes to all of the above comments, but I am looking for news stories of these bylaws being enforced in reference to non-christian gatherings. Thanks