racist to lockup condoms - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Xazy · 02-15-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Activists protest CVS over condoms

By Elizabeth Lazarowitz
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Saturday, February 14th 2009, 8:30 PM

CVS stores in communities of color are far more likely to keep their condoms under wraps than in predominately white neighborhoods, community activists charged.

A fifth of New York City CVS stores keeps its condoms in locked cases, but that jumps to over half in areas where most of the residents are minorities, according to labor union coalition Change to Win.

The group charges that the lockdown discourages condom use in minority areas, which have been hit especially hard by HIV and AIDS. Of the 17 city CVS stores with secured condoms, 11 were in neighborhoods that were less than half white.

Having to ask a clerk for help is awkward and embarrassing, said Valerie Byrdsong, 33, a shopper at a Harlem CVS where all but a dozen small packs were under lock and key.

"Who wants them all in your business?" she asked. "It should be between you and your partner - not the whole neighborhood."

All CVS stores sell some unlocked condoms, and locked displays are used only in shops "where condoms have been heavily shoplifted," said CVS spokeswoman Joanne Dwyer.

I have seen 2 news reports on tv and saw a few articles, and the racist word is being thrown around right and left on this. It is racist to lockup condoms in minority areas where HIV and other diseases are a real threat. It is racist even if shoplifting is a concern, since the person might be embarrassed to ask for the condom shelf to be unlocked, thus creating more people to get potentially HIV. The areas they were mentioning on the news here, were all in NYC which actually gives out free condoms, but let us skip that fact. To me this is just crazy while Racism may exist, it is not racism in my mind to protect your money in an area where you know your store is getting robbed, and by this constant abuse of this claim it really does harm I feel to the people who are discriminated against. It also creates a system where people can claim racism, and feel like victims when in certain instances they are not, there is a line and I find it sad that the news and society continues to abuse the claim of racism.

ratbastid · 02-15-2009, 11:41 AM

Don't Planned Parenthoods exist in pretty much every area, serving pretty much all demographics? And don't they give away condoms by the handful? I don't really see the issue here.

highthief · 02-15-2009, 12:23 PM

I can't say I've ever seen condoms under lock and key around here. What a strange thing.

inBOIL · 02-15-2009, 01:54 PM

If they reverse happened, and condoms were only locked up in white areas, wouldn't that be racist by trying to keep people of color from reproducing? You can criticize pretty much anything by describing it as bigoted.

Anormalguy · 02-15-2009, 09:28 PM

I frequently see condoms kept in locked cases in the stores in and around my neighborhood. Racism my ass, it's about loss prevention.

ngdawg · 02-15-2009, 10:03 PM

Sheesh, people will find racism under anything...
What else is locked up? Maybe they should just put those big plastic alarm cases on all the condoms.
When you go into a convenience store, you have to ask for the adult magazines (if they sell them) and rolling papers. If someone wants them, who cares if they're a perv or a druggy?
When you go into the drugstore and buy tampons, they might know you've got your period. There's some gossip-making right there.

These "activists" need to get a life.

Slims · 02-15-2009, 10:16 PM

...maybe if the people in those neighborhoods didn't steal condoms it wouldn't be a problem.

Destrox · 02-15-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slims

...maybe if the people in those neighborhoods didn't steal condoms it wouldn't be a problem.

First thing that came to my mind.

Lets see crime rates in areas with locked up rubbers, not color rates.

Typically those who scream racism publically and loudly are often the racist ones.

Shit if it meant keeping the prices down for condoms here, I'd want them locked up.

Thieves increase costs enough as it is.

Daniel_ · 02-15-2009, 11:14 PM

This article raises the old favourite issue "is it racist to acknowledge a demographic trend associated with a racial bias?"

In this case, the chain of stores has put in place measures to prevent wastage in high theft areas. That those areas exist is not racist. That those areas have a predominantly black population is not racist - it is a fact.

It is a matter for (heated) debate as to whether the causes of that crime density is related to some innate feature of African descented populations. Some racists claim it is, but most work I have seem notes that deprived communities breed poverty and crime, and that being black makes you more likely to have been brought up in such a community.

Does this make a store racist for noticing? Personally I expect that you would find if the data in the OP was re-mapped for income levels you'd see the same match between poor areas and locking up. What should be addressed is "how come you're so much more likely to be poor if you're black?".

biznatch · 02-15-2009, 11:23 PM

I think it's ridiculous that they're labeling it as racist. However, I wouldn't like having to ask for condoms to the clerk in a CVS.

Anormalguy · 02-16-2009, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

...These "activists" need to get a life.

Yes, yes they do.

Our local Nation of Islam loudmouth, Quanel X, was recently busted by the media for accepting payments for certain protests. To be fair, he has done some good things (trying to stop convenience stores from selling crack pipes), but most frequently he is too quick to defend those in the wrong and accuse those in the right.

Plan9 · 02-16-2009, 07:33 AM

I think racism will have a real interesting shift in the next 100 years.

Cynosure · 02-16-2009, 10:14 AM

Meh. Talk is cheap. If this labor coalition, Change to Win, is so-ooo concerned about "people of color" in neighborhoods that have been hit hard by AIDS having access to condoms, without having to ask a store clerk for them because it's awkward and embarrassing, then Change to Win should provide free and ample condoms to those people so that they aren't tempted to steal them from stores.

BTW, I don't see it as any more awkward and embarrassing to ask a clerk for condoms behind the counter, for me to purchase, as it is to take those condoms from the shelf, myself, and bring them to the counter for purchase.

EDIT: Me, when I was in my late teens, I avoided the awkwardness and embarrassment of purchasing condoms by buying them from a machine in the men's bathroom. Or sometimes, I'd steal them from my old man's bedroom dresser drawer. (Yes, he eventually noticed the gradual decrease in his cache, and confronted me about it. Talk about awkwardness and embarrassment! After that, I decided it was better to just buy a big box of them, myself, and get it over with. And eventually, my girlfriend's mom wisely got her on the pill.)

Xazy · 02-16-2009, 11:29 AM

In NYC they can get free condoms, the city does give them away for free.

blahblah454 · 02-16-2009, 11:55 AM

I must ask one thing, what is a CVS?

Xazy · 02-16-2009, 11:58 AM

CVS is a drug store chain.

Bear Cub · 02-16-2009, 03:39 PM

They should just rob the white CVS's. Problem solved.

pig · 02-16-2009, 04:20 PM

Hmmm...I always felt a little pride when buying my jimmies. Ergo, I'll be getting some later on...what's so embarrassing about it? I don't think it's a bad question to ask, in regards to the OP, but I think this is probably much ado about nothing. I think the real questions about racism in America are probably a little more interesting and serious than this one...

MSD · 02-17-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

Don't Planned Parenthoods exist in pretty much every area, serving pretty much all demographics? And don't they give away condoms by the handful? I don't really see the issue here.

Planned Parenthood condoms are a short path to pregnancy scares (two of my friends within a week of free condom giveaways on campus) and Consumer Reports data backs me up in saying that..

Daniel_ · 02-17-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

Planned Parenthood condoms are a short path to pregnancy scares (two of my friends within a week of free condom giveaways on campus) and Consumer Reports data backs me up in saying that..

Making this claim is irresponsible and untrue (unless you have some cold hard data - and not anecdotal) to back it up; can you show me the Consumer Reports data?

All condoms that are FDA or CE approved are required by national and international laws in the USA, UK and EU to be compliant with international standards such as the WHO condom standard and ISO 4074.

The old saw that the ones that are given away are deliberately of a lower standard is totally bollocks - the ones that go out in bulk are the same as the ones sold at retail, other than the packaging.

Independent research (see FHI - index Chapter three) shows that condom failure is due to user compliance in most cases. In short, the sort of people who get given free ones are often the sort of people who don't use them properly (lack of education and reliance on handouts often go together, and failure to follow the instructions will often correlate with lack of education) - most failures happen to people who have had failures before.

gardens · 02-19-2009, 11:44 PM

personally I don't think the problem is racism or theft
but more to do with the white bred puritanical sex is bad belief

the odd thing is that we don't want to pay for abortions but neither do we want to teach proper sex ed

ametc · 02-20-2009, 11:48 AM

Planned Parenthood condoms suck, honestly. Even the flavored ones. They're always a little off flavor. But, that's not the point.

This isn't a case of racism imo because they lock up other things in order to protect their profits and keep it from being sold illegally on the streets. I think it'd be racist if they jacked up the prices of the condoms in predominantly black areas, though.

NoSoup · 02-20-2009, 03:31 PM

Although it was a pretty unscientific study, I've decided that most stores around here are doubley racist!. All of them keep their cash in locked tils - they hate blacks and whites!

Seriously, really? I've been to some rough neighborhoods where the clerks and all the goods are behind bullet-proof glass - why aren't they racist? It's not rocket science - if something keeps getting stolen, lock it up. If product A is stolen 100% more at these 10 stores out of the 1000 stores, lock up product A.

I wonder if the media would have made the same fuss if it was Preperation-H

thingstodo · 02-22-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anormalguy

I frequently see condoms kept in locked cases in the stores in and around my neighborhood. Racism my ass, it's about loss prevention.

Amen to that. If someone in a store steals those stores will lock up more and more. What a way to twist the definition of a word!!

LoganSnake · 02-22-2009, 11:17 AM

Racism won't end until people stop seeing racism in everything. Especially those who think they are the victims of racism in any situation that wouldn't even warrant a second look in white communities.

As Mrs. Dawg said, they need to get a life.

Stare At The Sun · 02-22-2009, 11:27 AM

Perhaps they should stop stealing them, and then the CVS stores wouldn't lock them up?

They do it because of high levels of theft, no other reason. It's not racism, its trying to prevent shoplifting. If the "white" areas were very high in crime, they would lock up the high value items there too.

Iliftrocks · 02-23-2009, 10:11 AM

Don't you think that a person who was too ashamed to ask for them from a clerk, would be too ashamed to put them on a counter, to buy them? Yep, it's better to steal than to be embarrassed. Hell, I know people who'd buy them just so somebody might think they were getting some.... not me though, nope ( has several bags in his bedside table ) nothing to see

JamesB · 02-24-2009, 11:14 PM

Locking up any item that has a high threat of being stolen is not racist at all, in fact, its good business sense.
If you operated a business where something is stolen alot, wouldn't you take measures to protect your assets?

Give me a break. Racist. I call racist on calling it racist. Lol. F***ing abusers out there.

Teufel Hunden · 03-01-2009, 05:45 PM

So protecting high theft merchandise is racist?

I think people these days are just waiting in the shadows to call someone racist. I also think it's pretty stupid that people would choose NO protection over just asking for a clerk to get a box. Sometimes you wonder if it's worth having faith in mankind at all.

dippin · 03-01-2009, 06:03 PM

Just to play the devil's advocate:
The report is actually a lot more complex than this article gives it credit for. In fact, the report by the organization compares not only CVS across neighborhoods, but also compares CVS to rite aid and walgreens in the same neighborhoods.

And the report goes far beyond these issues, also pointing out that CVS sells customer information, is careless about expiration dates, that corporate pressure for quicker service has led to a significant increase in the number of mistaken drugs dispensed, etc.

Now, I think we all agree that stores should feel free to adopt security measures to prevent shoplifting.

Now, would anyone's opinion change if there were no discernible differences in shoplifting rates across these neighborhoods, and the security aspect was based on an unsubstantiated stereotype? Because one of the findings of the report is that while CVS locks up condoms in predominantly African American communities, Rite Aid and Walgreens do not, and do not experience any higher level of shoplifting.

Unfortunately, our news media does a very poor job of communicating these things.

02-15-2009, 12:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	I can't say I've ever seen condoms under lock and key around here. What a strange thing. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

02-15-2009, 01:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	If they reverse happened, and condoms were only locked up in white areas, wouldn't that be racist by trying to keep people of color from reproducing? You can criticize pretty much anything by describing it as bigoted. __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

02-15-2009, 09:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
Anormalguy After School Special Moralist Location: Large City, Texas.	I frequently see condoms kept in locked cases in the stores in and around my neighborhood. Racism my ass, it's about loss prevention. __________________ In a society where the individual is not free to pursue the truth...there is neither progress, stability nor security.--Edward R. Murrow

02-15-2009, 10:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	Sheesh, people will find racism under anything... What else is locked up? Maybe they should just put those big plastic alarm cases on all the condoms. When you go into a convenience store, you have to ask for the adult magazines (if they sell them) and rolling papers. If someone wants them, who cares if they're a perv or a druggy? When you go into the drugstore and buy tampons, they might know you've got your period. There's some gossip-making right there. These "activists" need to get a life. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

02-15-2009, 10:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	...maybe if the people in those neighborhoods didn't steal condoms it wouldn't be a problem. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

02-15-2009, 11:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	Don't Planned Parenthoods exist in pretty much every area, serving pretty much all demographics? And don't they give away condoms by the handful? I don't really see the issue here.

02-15-2009, 11:14 PM	#9 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	This article raises the old favourite issue "is it racist to acknowledge a demographic trend associated with a racial bias?" In this case, the chain of stores has put in place measures to prevent wastage in high theft areas. That those areas exist is not racist. That those areas have a predominantly black population is not racist - it is a fact. It is a matter for (heated) debate as to whether the causes of that crime density is related to some innate feature of African descented populations. Some racists claim it is, but most work I have seem notes that deprived communities breed poverty and crime, and that being black makes you more likely to have been brought up in such a community. Does this make a store racist for noticing? Personally I expect that you would find if the data in the OP was re-mapped for income levels you'd see the same match between poor areas and locking up. What should be addressed is "how come you're so much more likely to be poor if you're black?". __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

02-15-2009, 11:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	I think it's ridiculous that they're labeling it as racist. However, I wouldn't like having to ask for condoms to the clerk in a CVS. __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

02-16-2009, 07:33 AM	#12 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	I think racism will have a real interesting shift in the next 100 years. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

02-16-2009, 10:14 AM	#13 (permalink)
Cynosure Psycho Location: the center of the multiverse	Meh. Talk is cheap. If this labor coalition, Change to Win, is so-ooo concerned about "people of color" in neighborhoods that have been hit hard by AIDS having access to condoms, without having to ask a store clerk for them because it's awkward and embarrassing, then Change to Win should provide free and ample condoms to those people so that they aren't tempted to steal them from stores. BTW, I don't see it as any more awkward and embarrassing to ask a clerk for condoms behind the counter, for me to purchase, as it is to take those condoms from the shelf, myself, and bring them to the counter for purchase. EDIT: Me, when I was in my late teens, I avoided the awkwardness and embarrassment of purchasing condoms by buying them from a machine in the men's bathroom. Or sometimes, I'd steal them from my old man's bedroom dresser drawer. (Yes, he eventually noticed the gradual decrease in his cache, and confronted me about it. Talk about awkwardness and embarrassment! After that, I decided it was better to just buy a big box of them, myself, and get it over with. And eventually, my girlfriend's mom wisely got her on the pill.) Last edited by Cynosure; 02-16-2009 at 10:26 AM..

02-16-2009, 11:29 AM	#14 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	In NYC they can get free condoms, the city does give them away for free.

02-16-2009, 11:55 AM	#15 (permalink)
blahblah454 Let's put a smile on that face Location: On the road...	I must ask one thing, what is a CVS?

02-16-2009, 11:58 AM	#16 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	CVS is a drug store chain.

02-16-2009, 03:39 PM	#17 (permalink)
Bear Cub The Reverend Side Boob Location: Nofe Curolina	They should just rob the white CVS's. Problem solved. __________________ Living in the United Socialist States of America.

02-16-2009, 04:20 PM	#18 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	Hmmm...I always felt a little pride when buying my jimmies. Ergo, I'll be getting some later on...what's so embarrassing about it? I don't think it's a bad question to ask, in regards to the OP, but I think this is probably much ado about nothing. I think the real questions about racism in America are probably a little more interesting and serious than this one... __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

02-19-2009, 11:44 PM	#21 (permalink)
gardens Tilted Location: Kolob	personally I don't think the problem is racism or theft but more to do with the white bred puritanical sex is bad belief the odd thing is that we don't want to pay for abortions but neither do we want to teach proper sex ed

02-20-2009, 11:48 AM	#22 (permalink)
ametc Psycho	Planned Parenthood condoms suck, honestly. Even the flavored ones. They're always a little off flavor. But, that's not the point. This isn't a case of racism imo because they lock up other things in order to protect their profits and keep it from being sold illegally on the streets. I think it'd be racist if they jacked up the prices of the condoms in predominantly black areas, though.

02-20-2009, 03:31 PM	#23 (permalink)
NoSoup Non-Rookie Location: Green Bay, WI	Although it was a pretty unscientific study, I've decided that most stores around here are doubley racist!. All of them keep their cash in locked tils - they hate blacks and whites! Seriously, really? I've been to some rough neighborhoods where the clerks and all the goods are behind bullet-proof glass - why aren't they racist? It's not rocket science - if something keeps getting stolen, lock it up. If product A is stolen 100% more at these 10 stores out of the 1000 stores, lock up product A. I wonder if the media would have made the same fuss if it was Preperation-H __________________ I have an aura of reliability and good judgement. Just in case you were wondering...

02-22-2009, 11:17 AM	#25 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	Racism won't end until people stop seeing racism in everything. Especially those who think they are the victims of racism in any situation that wouldn't even warrant a second look in white communities. As Mrs. Dawg said, they need to get a life. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

02-22-2009, 11:27 AM	#26 (permalink)
Stare At The Sun Eh? Location: Somewhere over the rainbow	Perhaps they should stop stealing them, and then the CVS stores wouldn't lock them up? They do it because of high levels of theft, no other reason. It's not racism, its trying to prevent shoplifting. If the "white" areas were very high in crime, they would lock up the high value items there too.

02-23-2009, 10:11 AM	#27 (permalink)
Iliftrocks Junkie Location: Near Raleigh, NC	Don't you think that a person who was too ashamed to ask for them from a clerk, would be too ashamed to put them on a counter, to buy them? Yep, it's better to steal than to be embarrassed. Hell, I know people who'd buy them just so somebody might think they were getting some.... not me though, nope ( has several bags in his bedside table ) nothing to see __________________ bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

02-24-2009, 11:14 PM	#28 (permalink)
JamesB Insane Location: Ottawa	Locking up any item that has a high threat of being stolen is not racist at all, in fact, its good business sense. If you operated a business where something is stolen alot, wouldn't you take measures to protect your assets? Give me a break. Racist. I call racist on calling it racist. Lol. F***ing abusers out there. __________________ -- apt-get install spare_time --

03-01-2009, 05:45 PM	#29 (permalink)
Teufel Hunden Upright Location: Lafayette, CO	So protecting high theft merchandise is racist? I think people these days are just waiting in the shadows to call someone racist. I also think it's pretty stupid that people would choose NO protection over just asking for a clerk to get a box. Sometimes you wonder if it's worth having faith in mankind at all.

03-01-2009, 06:03 PM	#30 (permalink)
dippin Crazy, indeed Location: the ether	Just to play the devil's advocate: The report is actually a lot more complex than this article gives it credit for. In fact, the report by the organization compares not only CVS across neighborhoods, but also compares CVS to rite aid and walgreens in the same neighborhoods. And the report goes far beyond these issues, also pointing out that CVS sells customer information, is careless about expiration dates, that corporate pressure for quicker service has led to a significant increase in the number of mistaken drugs dispensed, etc. Now, I think we all agree that stores should feel free to adopt security measures to prevent shoplifting. Now, would anyone's opinion change if there were no discernible differences in shoplifting rates across these neighborhoods, and the security aspect was based on an unsubstantiated stereotype? Because one of the findings of the report is that while CVS locks up condoms in predominantly African American communities, Rite Aid and Walgreens do not, and do not experience any higher level of shoplifting. Unfortunately, our news media does a very poor job of communicating these things.