Fiery plane crash in upstate NY kills 50 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynosure · 02-13-2009, 07:25 AM

WTF? This is the third major airline mishap in the U.S. in the past, what, two or three months? First an airliner at DIA skids off the runway and comes to a crashing stop. Then another airliner makes a crash landing in the Hudson River. And now this... !

Quote:

Fiery plane crash in upstate NY kills 50

LARENCE, N.Y. – A Continental commuter plane coming in for a landing nose-dived into a house in suburban Buffalo, sparking a fiery explosion that killed all 49 people aboard and a person in the home. It was the nation's first fatal crash of a commercial airliner in 2 1/2 years.

Witnesses heard the twin turboprop aircraft sputtering before it went down in light snow and fog around 10:20 p.m. Thursday about five miles from Buffalo Niagara International Airport. Continental Connection Flight 3407 from Newark, N.J., came in squarely through the roof of the house, its tail section visible through flames shooting at least 50 feet high.

"The whole sky was lit up orange," said Bob Dworak, who lives less than a mile away. "All the sudden, there was a big bang, and the house shook."

Two others in the house escaped with minor injuries. The plane was carrying a four-member crew and an off-duty pilot. Among the 44 passengers killed was a woman whose husband died in the World Trade Center attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

By morning, with the rubble still smoking, the task of retrieving remains had not yet begun.

Erie County Emergency Coordinator David Bissonette said it appeared the plane "dove directly on top of the house."

"It was a direct hit," Bissonette said. "It's remarkable that it only took one house. As devastating as that is, it could have wiped out the entire neighborhood."

The rest of this news article can be read here...

Fiery plane crash in upstate NY kills 50

Already, I've been loathe to travel via the airlines because of the post 9/11 security measures, and because of the numerous cutbacks that the airlines have made due to the economy, both of which has had serious impact on passenger ease and comfort. But now I'm beginning to develop an apprehension toward airline travel for other reasons... !

genuinegirly · 02-13-2009, 07:49 AM

Airline companies don't have much money right now so they're deferring routine maintenance for as long as they can get away with it.

highthief · 02-13-2009, 08:09 AM

Here's the other side of the coin: It's much safer than travelling via car.

I'm pretty sure a study was done in the wake of 9/11 - which caused a major shift from people flying to people driving - and they found that, as a result of people choosing the less safe option of driving, the number of driving deaths went up in the year following 9/11!

And when you consider the concept of airlines cutting back on maintenance - well, what do you think the guy who just lost his job is going to do when his tires go bald or his brakes get mushy? Think he's going to A) splash the cash on car maintenance, B) stop driving, or C) carry on driving his death-trap?

I'll take a plane everytime.

laconic1 · 02-13-2009, 10:40 AM

I'm pretty sure the FAA has very stringent maintenance requirements. I remember reading an article in one of the local papers where they followed along as Frontier Airlines went through a major maintenance on a 737 that was only a year away from being retired. I don't remember exactly how much the maintenance cost, but I think I remember it being in the high six figures, low seven figures. Crazy money for a plane about to be retired, but it was done because it was mandatory for the number of hours on the plane. Also the FAA steps up inspections on airlines known to be in financial trouble.

Also, although none of the investigations are complete yet, it doesn't appear that any of the three recent commercial aviation incidents are the result of mechanical failures.

genuinegirly · 02-14-2009, 06:50 AM

News update:

Quote:

Search for answers begins in Buffalo plane crash

CLARENCE CENTER, New York (CNN) -- The pilots of a commuter airliner that crashed late Thursday about 6 miles from a Buffalo, New York, airport discussed "significant ice buildup" on the plane's wings and windshields before the plane plunged to the ground, killing 50.

Continental Connection Flight 3407 was en route from Newark, New Jersey, to Buffalo Niagara International Airport when it went down about 10:20 p.m. ET Thursday.

Preliminary information recovered from the flight's cockpit voice and data recorders indicated that the plane underwent "severe" pitching and rolling motions after the landing gear was lowered and wing flaps were set for the approach, Steve Chealander of the National Transportation Safety Board said Friday afternoon.

"The crew discussed significant ice buildup, ice on the windshield and leading edge of the wings," Chealander said.

"The crew attempted to raise the gear and [reset] flaps shortly before the recordings ended," he said.

The plane crashed into a home in Buffalo, killing all 49 people aboard and one person on the ground. Firefighters brought under control a blaze at the crash site on Friday, blaming a natural gas leak for the fire's persistence.

Two occupants of the house survived -- a woman and her daughter -- and were released from a hospital after treatment for minor injuries, authorities said.

The first sign the air traffic controllers had of trouble was when Flight 3407 went off the radar.

Before that, it had been business as usual. The first officer, who was the co-pilot, had no sign of stress in her voice as she talked with air traffic control. The plane was cleared for approach.

About a minute later, the air traffic controller said that contact with the plane had been lost and asked whether crews in other aircraft could see anything. No one responded. The controller then said there might be a plane down.

Although there was a mix of sleet and snow in the area, other planes landed safely at the airport about the time the flight went down.

The crew of a Delta flight reported rime icing, a condition in which ice quickly builds up on the leading edge of the wings. A US Air flight also reported icing.

CNN meteorologist Chad Myers noted that there was "icing all over western New York" at the altitude the plane was flying.

"Almost every minute of their flight was in an ice event," he said.

The NTSB's Chealander said the flight crew reported that visibility was about 3 miles and there was snow and mist as they descended.

The voice and data recorders indicated that the plane's internal de-icing was on during the landing approach, he said.

"A significant ice buildup is an aerodynamic impediment," Chealander said.

Tony Tatro was on his way home from the gym when the plane flew about 75 feet above him. The craft's nose was lower than usual, and and the left wing was tilted, he said.

"The engines didn't sound typical, didn't sound normal," he said.

The plane was loud as it came in, as if for a takeoff rather than for a landing, said David Luce, who lives 300 feet from the crash site.

"The engines sounded like they were revving at very high speed, an unnatural sound," Luce said. "Then the engine cut out -- stopped. And within a couple of seconds, there was this tremendous explosion.

"It was an enormous explosion. It sounded like it hit, frankly, right in our backyard. ... The house shook; the windows shook; the ground shook," he said. "It was a real blast."

Among the dead were Beverly Eckert, widow of a September 11 attack victim, and Susan Wehle, a cantor at Temple Beth Am in Williamsville, outside Buffalo.

Also aboard was Alison Des Forges, senior Africa adviser for Human Rights Watch, a colleague confirmed. Des Forges spent four years in Rwanda documenting the 1994 genocide and had testified about the atrocity and the current situation in central Africa to Congress and the United Nations, according to the organization. Read about the victims

A representative for Colgan Air, which operated the plane for Continental, identified the crew as pilot Capt. Marvin Renslow, first officer Rebecca Shaw and flight attendants Matilda Quintero and Donna Prisco. An off-duty pilot, Capt. Joseph Zuffoletto, was also aboard.

On Friday afternoon, a minister from Renslow's church in Lutz, Florida, made a statement on the family's behalf.

"They are very proud of Marvin's accomplishments as a pilot," said Alan Burner, associate pastor at the First Baptist Church of Lutz. "They know he did everything he could to save as many lives as he could, even in the accident."

Shaw, a 25-year-old pilot from Maple Valley, Washington, had been with the airline about a year, according to her family.

"We're in shock," her mother, Lynn Morris, said. "We don't understand. We kind of keep expecting Becky to come around the corner and say it's not real."

In Washington, President Obama issued a statement expressing his condolences.

"Our hearts go out to the families and friends who lost loved ones," Obama said. "I want to thank the brave first responders who arrived immediately to try and save lives and who are continuing to ensure the safety of everyone in the area. We pray for all those who have been touched by this terrible tragedy to find peace and comfort in the hard days ahead."

The Erie County Medical Examiner's Office established a command post at the scene and had investigators there, a statement from the office said. Officials said relatives of passengers aboard the flight should call 800-621-3263 for information.

Thursday's incident is the first fatal crash of a commercial airliner in the United States since August 2006, when Comair Flight 5191 crashed while attempting to take off from the wrong runway near Lexington, Kentucky.

So, this sounds as though it had more to do with adverse weather conditions than deferred maintenance. I wonder what precautions could have been taken to de-ice the plane while in the air? Or was the plane not properly de-iced before taking off?

highthief · 02-14-2009, 11:16 AM

All modern planes (and this one is only a year old) have some ability to de-ice while in the air - whether by heating or even using inflatable devices which break the ice around key components. Ice can build up very quickly as planes pass through different layers in the atmosphere.

For anyone who lives in a cold climate, go wash your car on a day when it is below freezing and then don't dry it. See how fast your locks and wipers freeze up? Magnify that by a factor of ten and that's what airplanes have to deal with.

genuinegirly · 02-14-2009, 02:47 PM

Thanks, highthief, for the info. on de-icing planes. I've tried washing my car in cold weather, no matter how quickly I try to dry it, there's a little frozen film that develops over the car. I can't imagine dealing with what a plane finds in the air.

02-13-2009, 07:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Airline companies don't have much money right now so they're deferring routine maintenance for as long as they can get away with it. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

02-13-2009, 08:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Here's the other side of the coin: It's much safer than travelling via car. I'm pretty sure a study was done in the wake of 9/11 - which caused a major shift from people flying to people driving - and they found that, as a result of people choosing the less safe option of driving, the number of driving deaths went up in the year following 9/11! And when you consider the concept of airlines cutting back on maintenance - well, what do you think the guy who just lost his job is going to do when his tires go bald or his brakes get mushy? Think he's going to A) splash the cash on car maintenance, B) stop driving, or C) carry on driving his death-trap? I'll take a plane everytime. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

02-14-2009, 11:16 AM	#6 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	All modern planes (and this one is only a year old) have some ability to de-ice while in the air - whether by heating or even using inflatable devices which break the ice around key components. Ice can build up very quickly as planes pass through different layers in the atmosphere. For anyone who lives in a cold climate, go wash your car on a day when it is below freezing and then don't dry it. See how fast your locks and wipers freeze up? Magnify that by a factor of ten and that's what airplanes have to deal with. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

02-14-2009, 02:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Thanks, highthief, for the info. on de-icing planes. I've tried washing my car in cold weather, no matter how quickly I try to dry it, there's a little frozen film that develops over the car. I can't imagine dealing with what a plane finds in the air. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

02-13-2009, 10:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	I'm pretty sure the FAA has very stringent maintenance requirements. I remember reading an article in one of the local papers where they followed along as Frontier Airlines went through a major maintenance on a 737 that was only a year away from being retired. I don't remember exactly how much the maintenance cost, but I think I remember it being in the high six figures, low seven figures. Crazy money for a plane about to be retired, but it was done because it was mandatory for the number of hours on the plane. Also the FAA steps up inspections on airlines known to be in financial trouble. Also, although none of the investigations are complete yet, it doesn't appear that any of the three recent commercial aviation incidents are the result of mechanical failures.