cheerios: "Saying that my opinion isn't statistically sound, for example, isn't quite true"

I dont believe I said your opinion wasnt statistically sound. Because that doesnt even make sense. An opinion is not susceptible to scientific, mathematical, statistical or logical analysis. An opinion merely is. However, I said, or at least I tried to say, that your experience of the greek system is not statistically significant. Your personal interactions with members of the greek collegiate life consititute way too small a sample of the total to be meaningful in making an sort of useful or realistic generalizations about the whole. And, to take it a step further, it is my contention that, regardless of the statistical validity of the sample (ie have you met a majority of all the members of a given set), that generalizations about groups of people en masse are useless, because no one person will ever exactly fit the model that even the most statistically accurate study could create. Every person is a unique individual unto him or herself. The "average greek" or "average American" or "average salesman" or "average" anything is pink unicorn with polka dot wings. That person doesnt exist. So, while those numbers may be useful for marketing purposes, for example, they are completely void of an utility in personal, one on one interaction.

Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.

i go to a 2 year techschool, so not frats/dorms or realy anything that resmbels a trypical collage the clossest thing to a frat that we have is the Fireman school

Delta Tau Delta, Delta Nu Chapter

At my college, the University owned the houses and each was identical. Therefore, you chose based upon the quality of the members. Our house had athletes and non-athletes, scholars and some who were less scholastically inclined.

I have a brother who is a cardiothoracic surgeon, quite a few who are attorneys, one who was the featured artist for the local PBS auction, one who is my son's pediatrician...and some who wandered off..never to be scene or heard from again. There were brothers I liked and some I didn't. We were in bands, theatre, sports, frisbee-golf, student government, etc...

Heck, I was accepted and I was a philosophy major...

Now, for me to now say that the fraternity system as a whole is good because of my experience is an untenable opinion. Unfortunately, those opining the other way are similarily stuck.

heh, bad wording sion, I apologize. I never seem to find this thread before 2 AM ;) If I had some way to quantify "good" and "bad" frat members, and if i could take a RANDOM sample of them, then probably the number of greeks I have met and interacted with would be a good number to analyze the population as a whole, is all I was trying to say. But since the first 2 premisses are impossible to fulfill, well, we're all just up shit creek, aren't we? ;)

To further hijack this thread... lets talk about generalizations of groups then. I understand that mass generalizations that generate hate and bigotry are bad. BUT, it's human nature to classify things into groups. It's a REAL handy defense mechanism. If you get sick eating fruit from a purple-leaved plant, and you avoid purple-leaved plants from then on, are you discriminating against the plants? are you not giving them their fair chance? yes, but you're also not vomiting your toenails up! If I said "all greeks are bastards who deserve to die and they should all be hung upside down and the skin flayed from their bodies" then I think you'd be legit in saying that i was being racist. Since I choose to simply avoid them in consideration for my well-being, I think I'm being unjustly pinned here. But, that's just my opinion.

...im an ALPHA PHI OMEGA member, its a greek lettered international service organization founded on the principle of scouting...

wow- a thread rises from the grave- so i'll add my .02

I too grew up in a uni town, and have had no good frat boy experiences- so though offered the chance, never went in for a frat. unfortunately i have seen many examples of bad stuff in person- in general, here, if someones getting underage chicks drunk and gangbanging em, its a frat, ditto for starting shit in bars and general mayhem- the university here has even considdered banning them after some deaths occured at frat parties a few years back- now , I am not saying that its the frats per say, but around here they tend to create a bad scene, and mindset, that seems to cause a heckuva lot of trouble- I am sure that not all of them are bad, and sure that some are quite good, but living here you just dont get to see the good stuff, and do see a lot of the bad-

[QUOTE=onesnowyowl]Um, the closest I get is that I'm a member of a co-ed service fraternity called Alpha Phi Omega (APO). QUOTE]

I am considering joining this organization also.

I wasn't greek. I guess people didn't like me enough to want me to be their brother :confused: Go figure.

A member of Sigma Phi Epsilon, California Delta. Proud to be greek, just because of all the positive things my fraternity does.

not for me, I don't like paying for my friends //me puts on his flak jacket

and talk about resurrecting a dead thread! almost 16 months since the last post!!

Sigma Tau Gamma, Epsilon Alpha chapter.

I must say it was a very integral part of my college experience. I went to a somewhat smallish liberal arts college and we were the only fraternity on campus (though there were a number of sororities) and it wasn't the "typical" fraternity from what I understand.

We had a very "eclectic" collection of guys I guess. I am very proud of my brothers and what they were able to accomplish during their college years as individuals, as well as what we did collectively.

Kappa Sigma - Kappa Phi Chapter

transferred to University of Tennessee...did not affiliate.

fraternities and sororities are like everything else in life...some are cool and some arent and vary widely by school and region. at UT, i got along with everyone both greek and non-greek. there were only a handful of dewsh's who defined thier existence by it (being greek that is), and usually by junior year, they had outgrown that shit and simply remained members to take advantage of the social/party connection and direct plug-in to the sorority pussy connection. i enjoyed my greek time and have no regrets for having not chosen to affiliate when i transferred schools.

I'm rushing Lambda Chi Alpha this semester.

at first, I thought it said "Geek" so I was going to say yes. but then i read it as "Greek" so I'll say no since I am American

In this case, Greek means a member of a fraternity or sorority. :)

Alpha Sigma of Chi Psi here.

Phi mu alpha and alpha lambda delta here :)

Pi Kapa Phi

^ that's what I'm part of

Sigma Nu, Gamma Upsilon

Phi Delta Theta, Georgia Gamma Chapter (Mercer University) and damn proud of it, though I wouldn't call it my life's greatest achievement. I succeeded a becoming a "Phi Delt" because a group of guys decided to drop a particular color of marble into a jar one night ... it had little to do with my "success" as a pledge. A few of them decided to like me, and then there I was.

I'm proud because in my term as an active, we did a TON of community service (and not because we had to). Then again, my chapter was a statistical outlier in the field of fraternities -- we received national recognition from not only our General Headquarters, but from a number of outside organiziations.

For example: We wrote letters to soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq, organized a sun glasses drive for those same soldiers, cleaned numerous inner city parks and streets, volunteered hundreds of total manhours to a community theatre, ran canned food drives for a local food bank, cooked for soup kitchens and ran events for our campus recreation dept. We did this because we could and nobody else was stepping up to the plate.

Things are still, basically, being run the same way at Georgia Gamma... it makes me happy to know that the fire that my generation built in terms of serving the community is being maintained by young men that never saw the original spark. They do it because they think its right, and they are able.

Pay to have asshole friends? Never.

I just can't stand the fact that some fraternities cost an incredible amount and all ya get from it is friends that love you when they're drunk and hate you when they're sober. I know this isn't the case in every fraternity, but it does happen, and that's enough for me to lose interest completely. That, and I don't drink at all. And I don't have enough money. And I like living on-campus. With my friends. And I don't have enough money!

-Lasereth

On some other thread I talked about this before, but there are alot of new people here and thought (perhaps conceitedly) that y'all'd benefit from my $.02.

I was a Beta, but my greek experience, or how I decided to do it was anything but typical. No wild parties the summer after high school and no house experience. (no fraternity houses allowed at that school)

My sophomore year, I had just broken up with my girlfriend, was worried that I'd be kicked out of my program and lose my scholarship, had just wrecked my car, and had no idea where I was going to live when I drove off to school that August. The prof. in charge of the program was not getting back from Israel until about October, so I was in limbo on that. I had two good friends from Freshmen year, and one was transferring for money reasons, and the other was going to be gone the fall semester abroad. I was supposed to live with a group of guys in this house that was being renovated over the summer. Somehow, it got condemned by the city while it was being gutted, and they had just got that lifted, but hadn't finished and it was unlivable.

So I crashed on a friend's couch for a couple of weeks, and when classes started, I kept running into this guy and he kept bugging me about it. It was a group of guys that had gotten together the year before and decided to start their own, and shopped around for the best national fraternity that was not on campus. Thinking what the hell, got nothing to lose, I accepted the bid. Even though I was a little leary of joining a group that was struggling to establish itself, that was part o0f what attracted me too. Yes, there was hazing, in part because these guys were so inexperienced and wanted to do a better job of everything they had heard about before, with the exception of alcohol hazing (for the most part). On the other hand, I got my grades up and got my life back in order by the end of the semester, and almost as a bonus, was in a fraternity.

I think fraternities can help two kinds of people the most; those who arein need of social initiative have an excuse to ask girls out for parties or dates and always have a place to sit in the cafeteria, something to do on weekends, etc..; those that take a leadership role also get great experience in coordinating/fighting/negotiating with business sponsors/alumni/school administration that they would be hard-pressed to replicate in a non-greek setting.
Now that I'm out of school, I recall fondly my college days and the wild times we had. That one little throw-away line on a resume is good too, and was an immediate interview icebreaker. What I'm most thankful for, though, are the couples we still hang out with. Quite a few of my old fraternity brothers are married and have embarked on successful carreers, and those that we live around continue to spend time together. We don't talk about fraternity stuff anymore, and we don't pay dues. It's a great network of people for dinners, weddings, golf, and help with home improvement projects. That's really nice to have when you're young and trying to get started living in the big city.
I don't necessarily think that any national fraternity is better than the others to join. There'll be some hazing probably, and some dues you have to pay to keep things running. There'll be some "secret ceremonies" that are cheesey. But I strongly encourage you to not pass up an opportunity just because you buy into "I don't pay for my friends" propaganda. It's almost reverse snobbishness. Everyone talks about having an open mind, except when it comes to things like this. There is a strong anti-fraternity/sorority bias that exists, but I just hope that for your sake, you don't buy into it.

I just accepted a bid to pledge for Delta Psi Delta, which is a fraternity local to my college. I was weary, in the sense that what I knew about Fraternities, I only knew from movies and urban legends. What I found was a group of guys who were so much like me, it was scary, and wonderful, so I decided to join.

This was a large reason i joined, and it really has helped me a ton, it was one of the best decisions i could have made. I gave a little of my time, but I've gained so, so much.

Pi Kappa Phi

Met my wife there at a party, can't be all bad.

And I'm a doctor now so it didn't interfere with my education to much.

Frats get a bad wrap for two reasons.

First is that young men in a group do stupid things. What happens is of course you get "Members of Kappa Kegga Brew did something really stupid last night".

Second is that if you want to make people hate you, make a club and say they can't join it. Frats come in all types but the concept that they are all white male elitists runs deep.

Joining a frat isn't that big a deal in the long run. Its a nice way to do things in a group which are hard to do alone, gives you the resources to do it, and puts people together in such a way that promotes friendship. On the other hand its been many years since I've spoken with anyone in my frat, and while there are a few I wouldn't mind getting together with again, I haven't made the effort, nor will I. Life goes on, friends come and go.

I went out for Rush when I was in college, at my mother's insistence. She wanted me to meet people. I ended up joining a sorority, and the first year was fun. But after that I settled into a group of non-Greeks, and the sorority became more of a duty than something I did for enjoyment. I look at sororities and fraternities as microcosms of society. You find all kinds of people: good, bad, Christians, athiests, brains, sluts, athletes, etc., etc....The groups are so small though, that everything is much more intense.

I am rushing Lambda Chi Alpha this semester. Lovin every minute of it.
I am glad I decided to go greek.

Nah. I go to Rice, and there's no frat houses and not much of a frat scene at all. The system they have in place though (residential colleges - think Yale or Harry Potter) kicks ass though. It's much better than any Greek life.

Phi Kappa Psi at the University of Texas. Loved every minute of it. We had stupid troublemakes and we had guys who are now doctors/lawyers/businessmen etc. We did a lot of stupid stuff, but we had a good time and we also did a lot of philanthropic stuff as well.

As far as paying for the friends comments go, you pay for parties, and people can still dislike you if you're a close minded asshole who says things like "you pay for your friends."

All my college had was societies - I was in Carmical and hubby happened to be in our brother society - Carry

Wow. I forgot about making this thread.

I am not in a fraternity, for two reasons.

One, I do not drink, and it seems that most frats tend to drink a lot, so I would feel out of place.

Two, I was awarded a $3000 scholarship that had as one of its stipulations that I would not join a fraternity. Go figure.

Laugh, what scholarship was that?

The drinking thing can be an issue. We had a few in my frat who didn't drink, but drinking was part of many activities. Few would get shitfaced drunk very often, but social drinking does play a role.

Living in my fraternity house is cheaper for me than living on campus....and you dont just get friends you get brothers. Some you like...some you wont like.

Alpha Tau Omega.....Eta Alpha...1982

It's all been said I guess. Good, bad, otherwise.

I joined for the fellowship and for the intramural sports teams. Intramurals was a big thing at my school. (University of South Florida). I played all four majors- football, softball, basketball, soccer. And during the four years, every minor sport at least once. We had good teams and it was great to be able to play different sports with the same guys. The dorm teams (GDI's) never seemed to keep the same teams or get along year after year.

We became doctors, lawyers, engineers, businessmen, etc. Some just dissappeared, some are dead. The guys who stood by me when I got married I still talk to on the phone 20 years later.

Money was not an issue for me. There was no on-campus Greek housing so our only expense was dues, which as I recall was something like $35./semester. We earned most of our party money through work projects. But these were fun and we had lots of 'little sisters' to help us out. We even operated a beer stand in old Tampa Stadium for the Super Bowl. As I recall we made about $600./ that day. Man, what an afterparty that was.

Just last year a couple of alums and the current chapter organized an homecoming reunion. All former members were invited. We had about 40 guys from all different years. It was awesome. Golf tourney, homecoming party, homecoming football game, Sunday brunch. Lots of families w/kids. It was really great to see some of the guys I hadn't kept up with. In five minutes it was like we were right back in college. The camaraderie was incredible.


So, like most everything else in life, you get out of it what you put into it.

Former Pi Kappa Phi Omega Chapter, I left right before I got pinned.
Personal reasons. If I had more time, I might have gone back, but I'm not sure.

Tau Epsilon Phi (TEP) - Omega Chapter at UNC

Never thought I'd join one, which as happens is something about 80% of guys at our chapter say as well, and ended up here and loving it. I'm sure I'll end up posting a nice long bit on fraternites at some random greek thread, whether asking about or praising or dissing, as those seem to pop up fairly regularly.

I was in a Fraternity at my college. I was nothing like the huge fraternities at major colleges, but it was nice. I can understand how some people could have a bad outlook on the greek system. Im reading a book on it right now. But my house was very diverse. Yeah, we had the pretty boys, but we also had the smart guys, the down to earth people, pot heads, drunks, transfer kids, slackers, over-achievers, etc...

But for the most part even with all of our differences, we all got along. Thats what surprised me.

I'm a member of Delta Upsilon, Western Reserve Chapter. We are an anti-secret, non-hazing meritocracy. The fraternity was created in the 1830s in direct opposition to the secret greeks that hid behind their secrecy and legacies to fiddle with student politics and pretty much corrupt the original ideals that they were founded on. Most fraternities were started for a good reason, and when run right they can be a great way to better yourself and your community. Having said that the unfortunate thing is that most of them anymore have lost sight of that. I guess my main point is that there are good and bad people in every group, so don't condemn all greeks because the ones you've dealt with are the retards (who of course are the loudest and get the most airtime). I know I'm a better person for having been in my fraternity, but I also now that I wouldn't have joined any other.

"Kafka would have been a desperately unhappy D.U." ~Brother Vonnegut

I was a greek - it can be a good experience if you get into a good house. If its the stereotype that's all about drinking and partying, save your dues money and have a killer party of your own.

Sigma Alpha Epsilon - Illinois Gamma chapter.