Daval

A 28-year-old Russian female, who visited Dubai on a tourist visa, and a 30-year-old male citizen of Lebanon, a salesman in a local store, were put on trial for drinking juice in a public place in the daytime during Muslim fasting.

The police caught the two people red-handed at a gas station in Dubai, Emirat.ru reports with reference to Gulf News.

In accordance with the Federal Penal Code of the United Arab Emirates, a public intake of food and beverages during daytime hours of the month of Ramadan is forbidden by Article 313. The article stipulates the punishment in the form of either a monetary penalty – up to 2,000 dirhems ($555) – or even a term of up to one month in prison.

The young people told the court that they were not Muslims and were thus unaware of the fact that their actions could be punishable.

The court took the mitigating circumstances into consideration, but found the defendants guilty, since ignorance did not exclude responsibility. The court ruled that the young people must pay the fine of 1,000 dirhems ($278) each.

The case became the first one in Dubai in violation of Article 313 since the beginning of the month of Ramadan on September 1.

Thousands of foreigners from Europe and Asia reside in the emirate of Dubai, the major tourist center of the Persian Gulf . Dubai is known as a relatively liberal region in comparison with other territories of the UAE. Tourists can be seen in the streets wearing shorts, whereas alcoholic beverages can often be available in bars and hotels.

This year, however, the authorities intend to remind all residents and guests of the emirate that they are staying on the territory of a Muslim country. There have been quite a number of incidents recently when the local police in plain clothes arrested women sunbathing topless, nudists and other violators of public order.

Many tourists acknowledge that that they do not always understand how they should behave in Dubai.

Guide-books advise tourists should always carry their IDs, or better their copies, with them for the majority of police officers wear plain clothes and can be rather meticulous in their inspections.


Source


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OK, This is absolutely fucking ridiculous. I can understand stopping public nudity and consumption of alcohol in public (ie, not in a bar), but arresting and convicting tourists of drinking a glass of juice in public is fucking ridiculous and further makes me thing this world has gone to hell.

Dubai, who is rapidly running out of oil and is trying to build a niche as the Bahamas of the Arab world as a destination hotspot and playground for the rich and famous, and is trying to market itself as one of the more liberal muslim destinations pulls this shit?

I agree that in most cases that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but this is just fucking stupid. I would feel intensely happy if shit likes this causes tourists to shun Dubai and their economy collapses.

Am I the only one who gets outraged at this shit? Or am I just getting bitter and racist in my old age?

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Frosstbyte

I don't think you're bitter or racist. I think you're right on the money. Dubai needs to get its shit straight, because it can't both be a bastion of Islam and a major tourist destination. I don't even understand why this is illegal. I get that it's not ok for a Muslim to break the fast during Ramadan, but why would it possibly be illegal for someone who isn't even of that faith to break the fast? Is this kind of like how women have to cover themselves up so men don't go crazy and try to fuck everything in sight? Do all the pious Muslims of Dubai have so little self control that merely seeing a non-Muslim eating or drinking would cause them to fly into a feeding frenzy?

That was kind of a rough note to end the post on, I suppose. There just seems to be a major disconnect here between the image and market they're going for and stuff like this. I could maybe understand posting notices alerting people that they shouldn't eat and drink in public during Ramadan, but this kind of enforcement is way over the top and pointless.

Jozrael

Hall of Famedddddddd

canuckguy

Their country, their rules. I think it is retarded but hey it is the law. I suggest not going to such backward thinking places, although I'll be making a trip to Dubai to see the Burji (sp?)tower once it is complete.

I just wish we would do the same here in my country, you come here it is OUR rules no exceptions. Learn our languages, customs and don't expect foot wash stations, prayer rooms or whatever else you think you deserve regardless of religion/faith whatever. Conform and fall in line or stop complaining/get the fuck out.

I fully expect the same treatment in return.

/sorry bitter on the subject.

edit- I just wanted to add that regardless of how stupid this law is I find it funny that these people did not take the time to learn the local customs. If i was heading to an area which is known for stupid things like this I would hope to invest a few hours into studying the local customs so I don't get beheaded (joke) or arrested.

MSD

Every day, a colossal meteor impact is sounding better and better. I still can't believe people are so backwards-thinking and judgmental that a modern country can get away with this shit.

highthief

Hey, it's their country - their rules. Don't see the problem here.

Personally, I doubt it would be a destination I would likely head to if I thought I might get in trouble for breaking with Muslim tradition, but that is my decision, too.

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LoganSnake

So then would it be okay for other countries to deny Arab visitors the ability to pray or to fast if they were visiting? I mean without the sensationalist news of discrimination.

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highthief

If that was the law of the land, yes.

Now, if a country (say Canada) started arbitrarily forbidding people from practicing their religion, outside the law, that would be entirely different.

But when you travel, you have to accept that while comparitively minor things might be no issue at home (drinking, doing drugs, wearing certain clothes, etc) they might be of concern abroad and it is incumbent on travellers to understand this and accept the consequences.

The only reservation I have about this instance is whether such Ramadan prohibitons are generally enforced in Dubai or not. If this is a "one off" by a zealous official, I'd be a little concerned. If such prohibitions are generally enforced, then no issue whatsoever.

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Daval

This isn't a one off. The people were arrested, went to court and were convicted. If they were simply arrested you could blame an overzealous cop, but the fact that it went through the entire process shows it is the system.

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highthief

Then, it's fine.

Hey, I can make a right turn on a red light in some jurisdictions, I can't in others. It's up to me to know where this minor law is in force. I can smoke weed in Holland, I can't in Malaysia. I can drink publicly in England, I can't in Toronto. I can get a hooker outside Vegas, but can't in Saudi Arabia.

Do I think some of these prohibitions are stupid? Sure. But I respect the law of the country I am in, regardless of my personal opinions.

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Daval

I am not nearly as reasonable as you it seems. I like MSD's meteor idea.

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Winston Churchill

SSJTWIZTA

the way thing seem to be, a meteor would off a majority all of the good people and leave nothing but small, scattered tribes of assholes.

you would think in the day in age we live in one would be able to enjoy a juice. i get it, its a muslim country, but not everyone in that country is muslim. shouldn't a non muslim be able to enjoy a juice if they so choose?

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Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
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genuinegirly

Don't visit in Ramadan.
If they had a thoughtful travel agent planning their trip, they would have been informed.

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highthief

Actually, you can - just not in public.

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snowy

Yep. You are obligated as a traveler to know the customs of the area you are visiting. If you don't bother and you get in trouble, tough nuts.

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Frosstbyte

I'm not sure that my objection is so much to the plight of the tourists, since, as noted, you are responsible for the rules of the country you visit, but rather that such an absurd law is even on the books and that people are obnoxious enough to enforce it, especially in a city which likes to style itself as being progressive and friendly to non-Muslims.

Manic_Skafe

It's their religion.

It really can't be that hard to understand.

Your absurd/obnoxious is their sacrilegious/profane.

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Jozrael

But he's used to a country where even if something is abhorrent to the dominant religion, we don't let them impose their views on the rest of us because we live in a country of complete and utter tolerance, free from all forms of discrimination.

new man

Yeah, it's a good thing the US doesn't have any of these crazy religious-based laws. Why, you can buy a beer or alcohol or a car any time you want. Oh, wait, did someone mention blue laws that regulate the sale of certain products during the Sabbath?
Visiting the Middle East is not high on my list of things to do. Basically, places that suppress women, religions, and the eating of barbecue ribs are in need of a little more education and growing up.

Jozrael

*cough*

If you were continuing the sarcasm, then MY apologies for missing it xD.

Anormalguy

Selective enforcement and arbitrary application come to mind .

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jewels

When in Rome ...

Travel agents will advise you of everything from customs, tipping and where to avoid the water. Travelocity even offers info like this.

And Logan, as for the question, would we "deny Arab visitors the ability to pray or to fast if they were visiting?", it's doubtful. We have Muslims and people of many other faiths throughout this not-so-shabby country of ours. We have few laws against praying, no laws about fasting. But just as we can't plead ignorance of their laws, they follow our rules when they're here.

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Frosstbyte

I disagree just as strongly with all the stupid laws about Sunday and the purchase of alcohol here as I do about drinking juice during Ramadan there. Laws should be designed to protect people. This law is designed to impose a purely symbolic (in terms of public health and safety) religious mandate upon everyone regardless of what religion they follow. In my book, that's a bad law.

Jozrael

I'm a sadly uninformed person when it comes to alcohol. Highlight the post under my cough to realize that I didn't get what he was saying xD

kurty[B]

To my knowledge, you are not a citizen of U.A.E., or a member of their leadership, and quite likely have no say whatsoever in their choice of laws. If I'm visiting a foreign country I inform myself of their laws and customs, and avoid making a scene or stepping out of my bounds.

If you're not willing to look up the customs of a country you are visiting may I suggest not doing any international travel?

Bad law or not, its a law. This is just like the boy in Singapore who was caned. He was in their country he needs to abide by their laws. I'm not going to a foreign country with a gun in my hand and saying "it's my right to have this here, because I can have it in my own country!".

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Slims

It's a muslim country and thus has muslim rules. If you are not willing to obey them, then don't go.

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Frosstbyte

You're making a practical point, which is just lovely for you. Please continue to make that practical point. I have traveled to a number of different countries and successfully followed that very practical advice. I'm making a philosophical point about my opinion on the role of law in society and the fact that I think it's silly for this law to exist and that I think it's silly that, even if it exists, they would bother to enforce it for drinking juice in the street given how Dubai likes to portray itself. I don't need to be a citizen of the U.A.E. to have an opinion on what it does, just like I don't need to be an Aztec to think that human sacrifice to keep the sun rising is philosophically bankrupt.

kurty[B]

Fair enough. Being practical keeps me out of trouble. I'll go back to arm chair philosophy when I have an arm chair to sit in.

I'll let the topic get back rolling. I still believe no matter how silly a country's laws are people should educate themselves about laws and customs before going on a foreign vacation.

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uncle phil

what he says, especially the first four words:

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little_tippler

I don't believe in forcing anyone to do what your religion says you should do. I don't care what country it is, Muslim or not. Respect and be respected. You may not be able to drink juice on Ramadan because you're muslim. I am not muslim so I will drink juice. In your place of worship, I will be respectful of your religion. I will not necessarily say the prayers of your religion, but I will refrain from doing disrespectful things in that location. But on the street? Mutual respect. Just turn this around - if you're in a catholic country and you're muslim, do you suddenly change religion or beliefs to comply with their rules? I think not. Tolerance is a good thing.

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We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
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To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

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MSD

I know it's the law, and I don't plan on visiting countries with such asinine laws, but just because it's the law doesn't make it right.

Jozrael

@Little_Tippler: The difference is these countries have their religion governing parts of their laws. I.e. the cops aren't objecting to it on religious but rather legal reasons. Whether these legal reasons are derived from religious ones is immaterial in regard to the fact that the law is still being broken, and you should follow another country's laws while you are a tourist there.

I completely agree that it is ridiculous, though, and that if they want to open up into a true tourist attraction they will need to drop some of their laws similar to this one. Let the mosques punish their own worshippers for religious infractions, and take your religious laws out of the legal books.

new man

Oh I agree the laws are silly, any laws based on religious mythology are at best silly and at worst horrific. "We are a christian nation" "we are a muslim nation". Whatever, no one was born a religion. But don't expect to piss in the wind and not get a little damp.

Jozrael, some states or counties in America have laws known as blue laws which restrict certain sales on Sunday. Often alcohol, sometimes cars for some reason. Maryland would sell cars on Sunday, every dealership was closed in Virginia. The place where Jack Daniels is produced is a dry county. You could go into a grocery store in Lumpkin county Georgia and they would have green sheets over all the alcohol displays on Sunday.

jorgelito

Yes it's their country, their rules, but it seems like such an obscure and unobvious rule, they should have made more of an effort to point that out, especially during Ramadan. I think that country needs to make more of an effort to reach out and inform tourists of local customs like they do in other countries. Especially if they want to be a tourist destination.

Shouldn't the seller of the juice be punished too then as an accomplice or facilitator?

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Cynthetiq

If anything this will become a marked point for their tourism push. If you want tourist dollars, you need to let tourists be somewhat forgiven for not following the same rigid rules.

It may become a traveler's joke like Singapore and haircuts, gum, flushing toilets...

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Mr Smith

I wouldn't say this is a sign of world going to hell – that law is based on their culture and religion, and not some current trend or fashion in their society. Tourist agencies should make a stronger effort to inform their customers of the local laws and customs and consequences of disobeying them. Nobody is forcing tourists to go there – they do it on their free will.

highthief

Given that one of the people arrested is Lebanese - a country that is half Muslim at least - perhaps this was an additional factor taken into consideration? If you're from Lebanon, you damn well know how Ramadan works, even if you are part of the Christian minority.

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Makedde

The court is right, ignorance is no justification. These women would have better off to do their research before they entered the country. They should have known it was Ramadan before they entered Dubai.
The punishment may seem harsh, but they broke the rules of that country, and must be punished accordingly.

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Hyacinthe

Face it guys and gals every country has stupid ridiculous laws that are still on the books. Australia, the USA anywhere in Europe or amongst the Muslim nations it is all the same.

It is a sign of respect to the country and the people of that country to atleast check the laws of the country (especially those that would apply to tourists) BEFORE travelling there. This should apply twice to Dubai which is well known for its changeable nature when it comes to allowing personal freedoms to the Western contingent of its population.

One thing which none of you seem to have clicked on to is

That sentence to me implies that the guy lives in Dubai. He knows how Ramadan works and should know that it's illegal to drink juice or any form of liquid between the hours of dawn and sunset.

They're just lucky all they got was a fine rather then jail time.

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jorgelito

Check post 34.

Or a stoning, or a flogging...

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