Either you're African or American
 

I found this posted els ware I though it was worthy of passing along

This is worthy of very little.

not really funny but: I agree. I'm sick of the african deal. to me, it's black people. and black is VERY understandable. what would you call someone who imigrates from SOUTH africa into america. he's white so is he still an african american? it's retarded.

if you were to go to europe, what would you call the black people there? african european? bleh...

While I do not particularly like the term African-American, I find that whole post insulting and ignorant. It suggests that Black Americans should not embrace their African ancestry. Imagine the sad state of this nation if no one brought their ways and ideals of the old world across the sea with them. No St. Patrick's Day celebrations. No foreign cuisine. No education on the way other people live. No understanding, and ultimately, no tolerance.

The post singles out Blacks and Mexican-Americans. Apparently it is still okay for all the German-Americans, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Franco-Americans, etc. to wear their nationality on their sleeves--but people of color? F**k 'em.

Yeah, sorry. All this thread has done is piss me off.

I completely agree with this sentiment.

There is a decidedly racist element to the OP.

Really?

Um...no.

This is not humor, its a pre-pubescent rant turned xenophobic.

Heaven forbid we should celebrate diversity.

Just because people live in the united states doesn't mean they should deny their heritage.

This wasn't funny.

Ha. There ain't no idiots here. Not in America.

/end my missing of the point.

This sounds like something I would have written when I was 13 (had I been an ignorant racist.)

It'd make a nice Myspace bulletin. Ha:thumbsup:

well truth be told, the only way racism will stop is when people stop trying to differentiate themselves from eachother by thier heritage.

I work with a black male and he's american as anyone I know. but if for a second he stepped off on playing the race card for any excuse or argument, he'd lose his validity in my eyes.

I think thats all it is, my eyes glaze over anymore when I hear people use race as a platform for any sort of staging point to express ideas.

I completely agree, but the argument presented by the article in the OP is very immaturely put together. It sounds like an angry teenager who doesn't quite know what he's angry about.

While there is some truth to that, it's also what makes the United States a great country. I think it's unfair to say that the only way to stop racism is to stop diferentiating ourselves from other people when it would make much more sense to end racism by stopping the refusal to embrace the cultures of our neighbors.

Isn't this like saying you're either Caucasian or American?

"If you want to be Caucasian, then you need to go back to Europe....or whatevs...."

The Caucasus Mountains, actually, on the border of Georgia and Russia.

Seriously, this is one of the most offensive things I've ever read on TFP. Pray God the majority of America doesn't feel this way.

Nice tie-in to a slam on Obama, by the way. Did the Hillary campaign write this?

But the original post was not written by the guy posted it, right? So, the perpetrators are not even on this board, so I don't think their should be any name calling.

Alright! It's St. Patrick's Day lets all have a parade and celebrate the Irish portion of our collective history.

Umm, now it's what? Kwanzaa! Screw that! That's for them people what don't look like me. (Do I hear Cletus?)

Yeah the OP smacks of Xenophobia.

I do find irony in:

it's time you BLACK AMERICANS GOT OVER IT! Now go fight the illegal immigrants

Yes, descendants of people brought to this country completely against your will, get off your collective asses and stop people willingly trying to come here.

Don't we typically post the link in these threads so we can check out the site for ourselves?

From what site did this come?

And could I ask you to clarify what you mean by worthy?

Worthy of discussion, worthy of attention, worthy of our time to read?

from now on, i would like to be refered to as a Polish-Portuguese-Scottish-French Canadian-Yugoslavian-Native American-American.
and if the GF and I ever have kids, you can insert Philippino into that for them.

why do people find the need to hypenate their ancestry like that?
i don't get it.
maybe its because i'm a mutt and dont relate to one cultual sub-group.
the way i see it, everyone born in this country is an American. period. regardless of their ancestry.

African (the homeland of ancestors) American (current home). I'm German-American. I used to date a gorgeous woman who was Filipino-American. One of my best friends is Indian-American (not Native-American).

It's a perfectly reasonable way to identify someone's lineage and current status.

BTW, most of my friends who are "African-American" feel that "black" is perfectly fine so far is separating people by skin pigmentation.

Well the Clark County WA GOP had a lot of the misinformation mentioned (ya know, lies) regarding Obama posted on their web page recently, so it could have come from them. Or it could have come from the Hillary camp.

My guess is whomever it came from would prefer it not lead back to them. Unless it's just some moron parroting the noise that comes out of his radio when tuned to the AM dial.

For anyone who's interested, the most correct setting of the term is "African American" (no hyphen). It is argued that this group would prefer not to have a "hyphenated identity." They identify themselves with their Africanness and with their Americanness, but they do not see it as a "blended" or "bound" identity as though it had some kind of haunting relevance to their ancestors' bondship in slavery. There are many, for example, who still strongly support the idea of the Black Diaspora, yet identify strongly with their American culture because that is their world from birth. Perhaps they view this as an essential dualism. Many, I'm sure, are indifferent to the hyphen, but there are cultural theorists and critics who are concerned about something that might seem so little. (-)

i just find the whole hyphenated thing completely rediculous. if one is a naturalized citizen, then yeah, throw the hyphen in there. otherwise i see it as either an attempt to create a sub-grouping for special consideration or as a statement that a particular culture is superior to the one someone grew up in.

granted, this may very well be because i am a tad bit older than you and i didnt grow up with these sub-groupings.

edit: Baraka_Guru - thanks for the clairification.

I was between 9 and 17 during the Clinton Administration, so yes I suspect that had something to do with it.

The "African-American" label has been around for a while (remember "Afro-American in the 70s and 80s?), but was only used as a term that was intended to be the least offensive in the early to mid 90s. Unfortunately, according to my learned black friends, this was taken by the black community as coddling. Many black people find the idea of such a term overkill and offensive because of that.

This is why I mention that generally the most correct term for 2008 is simply "black".

I think this is the general consensus in Canada, too. In my previous post, I was speaking exclusively about the term "African American." But in the discourse on the issues we speak of, I think the most common expression would be that this is about "being Black."

Note the capitalization. This is another little detail. Some use "black," others use "Black."

I wonder if there's any rule to the capitalization. Normally capitalization is used for beginnings of sentences, proper nouns, a pronoun used to describe self (I), and titles (such as Mr.). I don't see the label of "black" fitting any of those. Unless it's an exception, like "God", that is made by members of the group that uses the term?

i thought you were older than that. guess "tad" was a bit short. more like "a lot".

Capitalization can be used for distinction too. For example, "black" is also a colour (skin tone aside), while "Black" refers to a culture or people of African descent.

EDIT: Oh, it is also capitalized like a proper noun, along the same lines as Caucasian or Asian. So, if we were to list these terms, it would look like this:

• Caucasian
• Asian
• Latin American
• Middle Eastern
• Black

If by "a lot" you mean that you were almost old enough to drink when I was born, then yup. :thumbsup:

Ah, then the cultural name, which would be a pronoun.

I'm still trying to understand why we need to celebrate diversity. Is diversity, in and of itself, a quality that needs to be celebrated or encouraged? Does a high level of diversity in a population guarantee anything other than the fact that not everyone will look the same?

Understand that I'm not against diversity, just that I don't see it as a quality that needs to be celebrated or encouraged. I don't give a shit what color/race/ethnicity a person is, nor do I care what religion or sexual orientation a person is. You are either good people or you are not.

Why celebrate and encourage diversity? Why not celebrate and encourage things that truly matter, like good citizenship and ethics and morality?

Given the choice between A) a town in which everyone is the same race/color/whatever, but they are all good, upstanding citizens; and B) a town with a high level of diversity and low level of morality, I'll take the former every time. Diversity for the sake of diversity is pointless.

Refering to my previous post: I said Negro was as acceptable as Black, well someone said no and now i see why. In my town and as far as I can see, it's still a correct word to use

"racial term referring to people who have skin that has high melanin content, referring to persons of African ethnic origin. Prior to the shift in the lexicon of American and worldwide classification of race and ethnicity in the late 1960s, the appellation was accepted as a normal neutral formal term both by those of African descent as well as non-African blacks. Now it is considered by many an ethnic slur."

Where as the other N word is not for obvious reasons. Resume discussion.

I agree with you, but I don't think many would argue against us.

But I don't think we celebrate diversity for its own sake; instead, we celebrate the freedom of our own identities. There was a long and dark period in American history where being Black meant being less than human. Things have come a long way, but there is still a way to go. Blacks should celebrate their identity because they have overcome much and still have a lot of work overcoming the struggles they face on the basis of their inescapable being.

almost. lol. drinking age was 18 back then. i was already in the bars and clubs for 4 years before you were born.

all this talk of capitalization and proper phrasing...i think i'll just make up a term and lump everyone into it whether they like it or not.

since fotzlid is a meaningless term, maybe i'll use that instead.

you're all fotzlids.

I have a problem with the work Black as a descriptive of people who are dark skinned. Why, you ask?

because I've never met or seen, in my 40+ years on this planet, a single black person. I have met, on the other hand, some VERY, VERY dark brown people.

I think we should use the more accurate term: Brown.

And for "whites" we should use the term Beige.

This thread makes me sad.

All good points, but I don't think Brown would work because some Asian people refer to themselves this way.

And if you want to get that specific, then "Americans" will need to stop referring to themselves as such, given the differences between North, South, and Central America. So.... "Americans" should have to start referring to themselves as "United-State Americans" or "Mid-North Americans" or "Lower North Americans" or something..... any other suggestions?

The term Black does not bother me. No, I am not Black, but White people aren't exactly White. I mean, African American screams my country of ancestral origin and my country of my origin. And I fail to see how that is relevant. Besides, you can be Black and not be African American and you can be African American and not be black.

Am i missing something or was there something interesting "found-on-the-net" related to thread?

I wonder if black people sit around and have long, drawn-out discussions regarding what to call white people and try to sound enlightened while doing it.

"Caucasian"
"Well, now, I wouldn't go so far as to say Caucasian per se, seeing as how Caucasian refers strictly to those indigenous to the Caucus Mountains of Eastern Europe. My white friends say it's okay to call them white. But Euro-American is too ethno-centric for me."
"What's wrong with cracker? That's what we call them in my town."
"Well, crackers are white, but I think that is considered derogatory to them. I wouldn't want to go into an all-white neighborhood and call some Honky 'cracker'. Might go postal on you, y'know?"
"But where else are white people from?"
"I don't think that's an appropriate question to ask."
"So, what are we supposed to call them, then?"
"I think 'white' is what they prefer."

How silly.

It sounds much better when you read it in a book or listen to a lecture.

This conversation over tea, ala British style, would make a killer SNL bit.

JJ, awesome post, and it does a great job of showing the ridiculous amount of importance we attach to words.

I just wish fish_oinc would return and shed some light on some of these questions. I'm all about having discussions on race, just not superficial discussions on words.

This made me laugh. :thumbsup:

Isn't this the point of the thread? I mean, look at the OP. Seriously.

This thread started out...questionably...but it seems that a decent discussion is coming out of it. Bravo. :)

I tried googling a number of sentences from the OP and couldn't find any that gave a result other than back to this thread. Nonetheless, I edited the OP to put the rant in quotes, just to make that a little more clear.

I'm also moving this thread to General Discussion because it seems to fit better there with the way it's developing.

Finally, I must agree with Jenny_Lyte's post #4 and JumpinJesus' post #40.

I agree with Jenny Lyte on this thread, as well.

Surprise, surprise. :p

Personally, I don't care how a person wants to self-identify and I'm of the opinion that anyone who does care is the one with the problem.

And I think diversity is important. I think appreciating diversity is very important. The challenge for us all is to overcome the anxiety and prejudices that are caused by diversity, not to squelch it or pretend that it doesn't exist. I'm always very suspicious of these kinds of arguments. To me they sound like a cop-out.

hmmm...yeah...I think the discussion can be interesting, and has some validity to it in a sense. But the OP just sounded idiotic, in my opinion. If you want to call yourself African American, just go back to Africa? Huh? Moderately disjointed argument?

Funny post jj.

"I wonder if black people sit around and have long, drawn-out discussions regarding what to call white people and try to sound enlightened while doing it."

Thank you JumpinJesus.

Funny!

That almost made this sad thread worth the bytes.

why?

Homogeny's boring, for one.

Driven through West Virginia recently? I can attest to this fact.

Diversity ROCKS.

...

I honestly hope everybody on the planet screws somebody with a different skin pigmentation and we all have these beautiful brown babies with no discernible "race" and we're forced to discriminate based on something different yet equally petty.

The xenophobic OP aside...I really don't understand the reasoning behind calling oneself "whatever"-American. I'm just American. I have ancestors from England, Denmark, France, and America (I'm about 1/4 Cherokee/Choctaw). I'm pasty white in the winter and bronze nicely in the summer...I was a brown baby/child and my skin started lightening in my late teens. I can appreciate celebrating diversity and ancestry...but the labeling of something-American really puzzles me, and IMO, causes more friction than anything.

YEAH! YEAH! WOOOO!

Alright, who wants to make mixed-race babies with me!?

Let's do it for diversity!

*waves tube of KY patriotically*

Personally, I don't see the reason to strongly identify with "American" at all. As a Canadian, I often find myself waking up to this occasionally....

"What? Oh, I, uh, I'm a... Canadian! Yeah...." (Oh, heh, :surprised: he wanted to know my nationality....)


Oh, and, Crompsie, you should come to Toronto. Plenty of opportunity to "mix it up" here.

It's not something that I think of on a regular basis. In fact, it's not something I really think of until a conversation like this comes up. However...it does tend to come up more often than I'd like.

When I lived in NC, I had a friend who adamantly called himself an African American and was kind of offended by the word "black". I asked him why it was such a big deal and he never gave me a satisfactory answer. I really think it is a cultural thing...America being a melting pot and whatnot.

This is the most insightful comment in this thread.

FWIW, I agree with the OP 100%.

Well, because obviously we are not all the same. Obviously, we were never meant to be the same. Obviously, we will never be the same. Therefore, I think it is a legitimate challenge for us to attempt to live with and appreciate these differences. To accept them, while also realizing our intrinsic similarities. To purport that we should ignore them - pretend to not see them - seems both unrealistic and misses the point.

Are there no people you are differentiated from? Is there no group or identity that you are proud to be a part of?

Why are there so many different sects to the major religions? Why don't they all just forget their differences and go to the same churches, worship in the same way, be the same?

Why do gay men and women want to embrace their diverse sexual identity?

Why do north-easterners differentiate themselves from mid-westerners?

Also, if the idea is to suppress racial or cultural diversity, what is the default culture? What are we supposed to be like? What is the status quo for such an endeavor? I mean, there has to be a point where we are coming from. From which to base who is being 'diverse' and who isn't.

Diversity, people being different - coming from different places, living differently, eating differently, listening to different music, playing different games, speaking different languages, wearing different clothes, different religions, different codes of behavior, different outlooks on life, different memories, etc., etc., etc. These things are never going to change, therefore it seems unimaginable to me that we should all ignore that they exist or worse, hate each other for them. It's one of the greatest challenges that has faced mankind from the very beginning of recorded history and we still haven't just gotten it, yet. I believe we are supposed to appreciate both our similarities and differences simultaneously without feeling stifled by one and threatened by the other. I think we are able to do this, to a large extent, on an individual basis. But when it comes to talking about 'the big picture' we lose focus on just how simple it is.

QFT. I believe the same is true of genders.

The only thing that's worthy of is being printed on toilet paper. For some 300 years, white America enslaved, segregated, and otherwise divided and oppressed the Africans they brought here, and now just because there has been progress toward equality they're supposed to forget about all the past and continuing discrimination and join the rest of America... because white America is overjoyed to have them. (?) White people invented the racial divisions in [U.S.] society. Is it ignorance or a complete lack of respect for anyone else's point of view that causes people to think this way?

I think there is a point here - but it is about America rather than race.

A lot of American's I know identify themselves as Italian, German, Irish, etc etc... all American's basically are immigrants (other than people of the native tribes), and there is not the same sense of blood and soil nationalism as you have in Europe for example. But the strange thing is that despite all this, America is one of the most patriotic nations on earth.

it is silly.

i recall as a youth being sent to the principal's office because i insisted that i was american. but the class and teacher stated i was something different because i was brown skinned and had slanty eyes.

i insisted i was american because that's what my parents told me to say if ever asked. to this day i will reply american to anyone who asks me where i am from until they clarify and ask what my heritage is. i am not filipino american and will resoundly argue with anyone who insists on labeling me as such. i am simply american.

You were sent to the office for that? That's fucked up. They should have been celebrating that you were embracing the melting pot.

I didn’t write this or did I ever say that I approved it however I did think it was worthy of sharing and or having a discussion over . It’s funny that the forum I got it from has totally different view of it, mostly favorable , But of course that forum is full of Southern Red Necks I prefer not to mention it as I too am a Red Neck or an “Appalachian American “ and in good standing there and if you all invade it with your negative views I might loose it How ever if any one is interested in their reply’s I might post some of them,




I will say this I am American my wife is Canadian and not a Canadian American nor will I be a American Canadian when we retire up there. You are what you are

I see it has brought life to this forum not that it needs it none the less it is controversial

Agree.

You are either American or African sounds as ignorant as " You are with us or you are against us."

But interesting enough, those same groups who are first to scream racism due to exclusion on any scale, seem to want to segregate themselves further at times.

We have a Miss America contest where all ethnicities are welcomed. So why a Miss Black America contest?

We have a worldwide music body that honours international artists for excellence in their genre called the Grammy Awards. We have the Latin Grammy awards. Is Latin music so much bigger than all other music genres in the world combined that it deserves a seperate show?

In Toronto, there is talk about having all black schools to accomodate black kids since mixed race schools are not meeting the values of those in the black community. What next? Schools for whites, asians, and every other cultural group under the sun? Segregation a la the 1950's? That worked well.

There is nothing wrong with promoting and sharing ones heritage and culture and being immensely proud of that circumstance. But when people start expecting different and special treatment because of their ethnicity, it's time to stop that world from revolving around themselves.

I know, I know. Racism is still alive and well and telling the victims to suck it up isn't exactly building bridges, but neither is segregating oneself to the point of exclusion.

Maybe the dividing line to racism is that some people aren't allowed what is deserving of them while others expect what isn't deserving of them.

FO: You stated that you thought it was "worthy" of "passing along" which, because it's all we were given in your OP, would suggest the words convey your beliefs. When one posts for discussion purposes, it's customary to set the tone by voicing your opinion or which aspect you want to discuss.

When you quote someone's words, it's appropriate to give them credit.

I can appreciate that you don't want to share the link to the forum where this was originally posted. However, I wonder why you consider the responses that disagree with this fairly xenophobic rant to be "negative views"? Also, I get the impression from what you've typed that those who inhabit the forum you reference are the ones who seem to be separating themselves from others and don't want any outsiders invading their space.

I wonder how many of these people who rail against these labels consider themselves Confederates first, Americans second.

And finally, I can assume that none of these Southern Rednecks claim any ties to their Confederate heritage at all, seeing as how they consider themselves Americans and Americans only?

bullpuckey!

racism existed long before white people began settling in N. America.

I feel I speak for a majority of Magyar-Americans when I say that the writer of the original post was failed by the public education system.


That being said, I am not a huge fan of the X-American moniker either. Therefore I don't use it. I thought it a better course of action than an infantile and grammaticaly incorrect rant.

Sometimes I wonder if black people chuckle to themselves over how we've gotten white people all in a tizzy over how we identify ourselves.

I know I do. Hell, I'm chuckling again after reading this thread.

I find it detrimental to the nation and society as a whole when you put anything in front of American.

I am proud of my heritage (Irish, German, Welsh.. etc) however I am more proud to be an American. I was born here, I wore the uniform for her and even if I have political differences with people in charge.... it is still my home and I am blessed and honored that my soul was able to be here.

My feeling is if you have to put anything in front of "American" you have an identity crisis and need to either move to wherever or get over it. Be happy who you are. Realize that when I put something in front of American (say Irish) I put my Irish heritage above and beyond my American, now tell me how is that good for the country? It ain't.

We are fucking all Americans (well, those of us here, legally), we need to be proud of our country and rebuild her to her majestic glory.

When my great grandmother came from Germany and became a citizen, she didn't say "I'm German American" she proudly stated for the rest of her 96 years, "I am an American."

I am an American. Nothing else.

The idea behind African, Native, Hispanic, Irish, and so forth in front of the American title, is NOT for segregationist or elitist means. The original poster, and those who share the same aggressive bias do so out of prejudice and lack of deeper thought.

The reason is to celebrate the original ancestry, which shouldn't be forgotten of any culture.

America is the melting pot of all types of races, creeds, cultures, heritages, and so forth. So why not celebrate the different people's that make this country what it is?

I am black, and find some of the opinions here very prejudice. Otherwise, consider this.

Why are we so emotionally attached to labels? What one considers one self, should be personal on to that person. Otherwise, why do we bother ourselves with labels.

The fact that many of you argue "why African or whatever American", and chastise the use of those labels...but then refer to the group you are talking about as "black people" and "White people". This is a blatant hypocrisy.

How about you actually exercise your mind, and not worry yourself with stupid and trivial nonsense.

Male, female, black, white, Hispanic, rich, poor...Who cares. These are labels, and one of the stupid distractions civilization has created against itself, and in avoidance to issues that truly matter.

The end.

I think the Clinton campaign would be just as horrified by the hate filled spew of ignorance the OP decided to try and sell this intelligent community. I almost pointed out his obvious southern roots but realized I may sound just as discriminating. What a disgusting waste of my afternoon.

PS: It's a good thing that most Southern Americans are moving beyond this type of nonsense, after all Obama did win So. Carolina yesterday. Take that!

There's a certain low level lunicy to this conversation. Aside from the xenophobic comments contained in the OP there's another underlining issue. America is a big place. So big it takes up two complete continents. Admittedly the term "American" has been associated with United States citizens. But there's a whole bunch of people in Central and South America who consider themselves to be "American" as well.

Seems your putting words in my mouth I really don't care what is customary here, Thats your opinion, I said I didn’t approved it or necessarily agree with it or was I voicing my opinion on the subject just passing it along and as far as the giving credit to who wrote it I didn’t deem it necessary as I wasn’t sure how it would be taken here .


I never said they did want any one invading their space as it is an open forum I just didn’t want them to feel ill of me by posting this in a forum with such negative views of the matter (Again I didn’t approve of the post or do I condone it or reply to it )

My reference to them as Red Necks is my opinion it may not be theirs but I chose to be a Red Neck so I can I am an American and proud of it and love the recognition I get when I go to the City to visit I'm sure I stand out like a sore thumb (I go to Montreal frequently)

Now this might grow into another discussion on Red Necks and I will be glad to join you there.

Just as a point of inquiry, dont the rules for starting a thread require including a link to external articles as well as expressing a personal opinion on the article (not just...."I am passing this along"). I recall having a mod close a thread I created because my opinion was too briefly stated.

And this xenophobic e-mail has been circulating for years.

/end inquiry

Of what personal attack are you speaking?

The person who wrote that forgot one (very important) thing. African Americans are NOT the people who gave themselves that label. Same as Native Americans.

Every "African American" I know (myself included) calls themselves "Black" because the giver of labels have not felt yet inclined to label us "Americans." We reject "African American" for the same reasons the writer gives. We are not African - not anymore.

However, we could be called "Americans formally known as Stolen Africans."

That may be the method for African Americans, but Filipino Americans, Vietnamese Americans, Chinese Americans, the ones that I know all seem to have self labeled.

Agreed. Only White folks call us African Americans. While I do acknowledge that the term African American being used by a White person does show some respect, most Black Americans do not like the term.

For whatever it's worth, this thread has given more consideration to the matter than I ever have.

Writing in the sand.

yeah, i'd have to agree, but i couldn't help myself. . . i had to say something.

This thread is humorous, to say the least.

Anywho, carry on lol

Edit: I call myself African American, for what it's worth <_<

When I opened this thread I thought I was going to read an argument for how, since after all the entire human race is from Africa, we should define race by a delineation of the next closest lineage based on migratory patterns, e.g. into America through Asia, etc.

Having now actually read the post, I am reminded once again this latest resurgence of jingoism needs to die a quick and decisive death.

Oh and for the record, we DO sit around wondering what to call White folks.

For the record I prefer "Commander Coo-Coo Bananas." But I'll likely answer to anything.

Commander Coo-Coo Bananas? Okay, that is what I am calling you from now on. :)

My brothers both happened to marry Moroccan (one 1/2 Moroccan) and their kids are technically able to check off the African American box, and I do not see why they should not. African American does not mean black.

It's kind of a game of silly semantics, but if you say "African American" in a vacuum to 99.99% of Americans, they will assume you mean that the person is black as opposed to someone currently living in America whose family came from Africa. I guess we can then argue if the majority of people are using the language wrong or if majority use defines meaning.

I'd be inclined to say that if they check off that box and then meet someone in person who has read that sheet, they're very likely to get asked about it or the person will not ask but wonder fairly seriously what's going on. It's technically true, but practically disingenuous.

Either way, this is kind of an odd conversation. Personally, I think the melting pot mentality is preferable to one that encourages segregation, though I wouldn't want people or groups to totally lose their individuality or identity. The OP clearly was more concerned about making a quasi-racist tirade than making a legitimate point, though.

and then you've got people like a childhood friend of mine's dad, who I believe grew up in Zimbabwe during the race riots of the 60's-70's, and emigrated to the United States after seeing a lot of bad stuff. That guy was as white as white gets, and definitely harbored some ill-will towards black people, but I suppose he was African American as it gets. Regardless, I just don't see these semantic and labeling issues as being so paramount. Someone wants to call themselves African American...well fine. I think there are bigger fish to fry.

Surely they didn't invent racism. I mean they created a place, in the United States, where there were several different races and clear racial divisions (initially natives; Europeans, which were often divided amongst themselves as well; and Africans). What I'm trying to say is these ______-American groups, whatever you want to call them, have clear social distinctions which we can't just will away by changing their names. These names were invented to describe existing social groups. That in itself is not necessarily bad or good, it's just a name. It's how we treat the differences, positively (e.g. pride in our diverse heritage) or negatively (e.g. racism), that is important.

Ethnic self-identification is a pretty cool aspect of studying census records, actually. The actual evolution of the census (especially in the last few decades) to reflect the diversity of what people call themselves is the subject of countless sociological journal articles, to be sure. But that's my inner nerd talking. :)

As for me, I grew up in the US and have two passports (with a couple more passports on the way). I don't do hyphens. Our kids (as ktspktsp and I are often joking) are going to be ThaiceLebandic. :lol: And I don't give a flipping fuck what anyone thinks about that. If you're taking it too seriously, then that's your problem.

Exogamy is the way to go, a la Crompsin's post. :thumbsup:

Ehh, call yourself whatever the hell you would like to be called. i dont give a shit either way.

I have no problem with anyone having pride in their ancestry.

Personally I'm neither african or american, but I am married to an american. I want our children to think of both england and america as their homes.

The one thing I do object to is aonyone telling anyone else how to be American. Unless you signed the declaration of independence, you have no say whatsoever on how someone else takes pride in the United States.

Oh, and I love how the quote in the OP takes such pride in talking about being from "Dixie". What's wrong? Wasn't just being American good enough for you?

Why can't we all just simply refer to each other as "people" and stop with these stupid labels?

Seeing your location makes me wonder how you've escaped hearing "American by birth, Southern by the grace of God" t-shirts, hats and bumper stickers. Those are pretty common in East Tennessee. I've always considered it a holdover of the attitude that led in part of the Civil War. Or the War of Northern Aggression, if you will.

I wouldn't call it self-labeled. I would call it the acceptance of a label given to you by someone else. And once you accept it, you can began to take some power over it's meaning. i know some black people who accept the label "african american" but i know more who don't.

I'm a huge fan of diversity and multiculturalism, and so I find the OP pretty patently offensive. Whether we realize it or not, even if we're all "Americans", we all come from different, diverse backgrounds--and that diversity goes beyond just skin color. Not all of us are from the same economic background, either, and some of us grew up in different parts of the United States, where belief systems are radically different (for instance, Oregon v. Mississippi). If we ignore those differences, and gloss over them instead of celebrating them, it becomes a festering wound in our society.

Plus, think about all that we would lose without diversity and multiculturalism: all of the holidays we celebrate associated with other cultures, all of the foods we eat that come from other cultures, sports, art, movies, music...

Personally, I will continue to be multiculti and celebrate my own heritage (Dutch-Welsh-Icelandic-French-German-American) while celebrating the heritage of others. Pass the latkes please.