Hippies.

[abaya]

So, I've come across a couple of threads in the last few days that have references to "hippies," and I'm wondering what this word means for people around here.

The usage of the word seems to be mostly negative, and I guess it always has been (draft-dodging, long-haired, free-lovers, anyone?)... but hell, it's been 40 years since the word was used regularly, so I want to know if its meaning has evolved at all.

My impression from today's use is that it refers to someone basically living outside the mainstream (e.g. eating organic food, spending more time than usual outdoors, being spiritual, being polyamorous, etc)? That's the vibe I'm getting... which is kinda weird, since if we are going to use the word "hippy" derogatorily, I'd venture to guess that a shit-ton of TFP'ers fall under that category (no doubt including myself).

Which is fine and all, but is it really such a negative thing? Is that the only word we can come up with to label people who live outside the mainstream? Or am I just missing out on some neologisms that have evolved in the last 40 years to replace this word?

Just curious what y'all think, as usual.

[Jetée]

You use the term "hippie" as if it weren't a real word.

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, a hippie is: A person who opposes and rejects many of the conventional standards and customs of society, especially one who advocates extreme liberalism in sociopolitical attitudes and lifestyles.


Now as goes along with every single word in every single language, each has its own unique connotataion and denotation of various possible meanings and purposes.

Use the word or not, think it to be reserved for an era that has long since past, or use it to your habitual preferences in referring refer to the nieghborhood hoodlums that do nothing but hit the pipe; it is but a word.

What you put into that one word, and what you take it out of it as well, makes all the difference.

[Jinn]

I use it to refer to people who annoy the shit outta me with their "metaphysical" cures, believing that all their ills can be cured by aligning their Chakras or Fluids or that a full body cleanse by drinking vinegar is the cure.

Quack Medicine, basically.

Those are hippies to me.

EDIT: Anyone who can appear on http://www.quackwatch.com/

[kramus]

The hippie sub-culture appears to be alive and well here in Southern Ontario. I have attended a couple of long-weekend music festivals which were populated by hippies of all ages. There are a lot of woolie sweaters, knotted hair braids, plaid shirts and drum circles - and if you wear a watch it gets noticed pretty quickly. I don't know about the free love stuff, but mind food has been known to be consumed by attendees at these music festivals from time to time. The people all seem to have day jobs, but not to support the lifestyle of upwardly mobile uber-consumers. Fun to visit, warm and friendly atmosphere throughout, and if I was to rework my life I could see having a strong strand of hippie in the warp and weft of my history. Organic foods, comfortable clothes, healthy choices and awareness of the happiness and spirit of others appears to be the mainstay of the hippies I have been with. A very low key group.

[Cynthetiq]

To me hippie refers to more environmentally and socially conscious people than myself.

eh.. i think that the hippie ideology have become morphed into fanatical freegans

What is a Freegan?

Freegans are people who employ alternative strategies for living based on limited participation in the conventional economy and minimal consumption of resources. Freegans embrace community, generosity, social concern, freedom, cooperation, and sharing in opposition to a society based on materialism, moral apathy, competition, conformity, and greed.
After years of trying to boycott products from egregious corporations responsible for human rights violations, environmental destruction, and animal abuse, many of us found that no matter what we bought we ended up supporting something deplorable. We came to realize that the problem isn't just a few bad corporations but the entire system itself.

Freeganism is a total boycott of an economic system where the profit motive has eclipsed ethical considerations and where massively complex systems of productions ensure that all the products we buy will have detrimental impacts most of which we may never even consider. Thus, instead of avoiding the purchase of products from one bad company only to support another, we avoid buying anything to the greatest degree we are able.

The word freegan is compounded from "free" and "vegan". Vegans are people who avoid products from animal sources or products tested on animals in an effort to avoid harming animals. Freegans take this a step further by recognizing that in a complex, industrial, mass-production economy driven by profit, abuses of humans, animals, and the earth abound at all levels of production (from acquisition to raw materials to production to transportation) and in just about every product we buy. Sweatshop labor, rainforest destruction, global warming, displacement of indigenous communities, air and water pollution, eradication of wildlife on farmland as "pests", the violent overthrow of popularly elected governments to maintain puppet dictators compliant to big business interests, open-pit strip mining, oil drilling in environmentally sensitive areas, union busting, child slavery, and payoffs to repressive regimes are just some of the many impacts of the seemingly innocuous consumer products we consume every day.

By recovering the discards of retailers, offices, schools, homes, hotels, or anywhere by rummaging through their trash bins, dumpsters, and trash bags, freegans are able to obtain food, beverages, books, toiletries magazines, comic books, newspapers, videos, kitchenware, appliances, music (CDs, cassettes, records, etc.), carpets, musical instruments, clothing, rollerblades, scooters, furniture, vitamins, electronics, animal care products, games, toys, bicycles, artwork, and just about any other type of consumer good. Rather than contributing to further waste, freegans curtail garbage and pollution and lessening the over-all volume in the waste stream.

I love that above paragraph because it makes me think they are living in a Mad Max type world BEFORE the catastrophic events that made it MadMax world.

[hambone]

I think of it as people all into the organic foods, preserving the earth, loving everything. All good things, but in my head a "hippie" has this as an obsession and mostly goes about it in a strange way. I also tend to view them as dirtier than most people, but that is just due to experience.

Also, having been into the whole punk scene in the past, my gut reaction to the word is bad, since generally hippies and punks don't get along.

But my sister is a self-proclaimed hippie and so was my college roomy, so regardless of what connotations the word means to me, I have liked most "hippies" I have known

[abaya]

Originally Posted by Jetstream

You use the term "hippie" as if it weren't a real word.

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, a hippie is: A person who opposes and rejects many of the conventional standards and customs of society, especially one who advocates extreme liberalism in sociopolitical attitudes and lifestyles.

All fine and good, as I said... I never meant to say it wasn't a real word. I'm just wondering why it gets used to describe anyone who likes nature (is that really so weird?) or eating organic food. And why it gets a negative connotation (your definition above does not suggest that there is anything morally wrong with said hippie)... especially when most of you guys seem to like hippies.

Or maybe a more interesting question... at what point does someone cross over into hippie territory? I mean, if we're talking about quacks and such, I have one uncle in particular who is obsessed with magnet-healing and ozone-cream and a whole host of other superstitious stuff... he's waiting for the aliens to come pick him up.

But to me, he's as far from a hippie as you get. He hates pretty much everyone (blatant racist), practically maintains his own militia, thinks everyone is out to get him, refuses to go to the dentist because he thinks the fillings will kill him, and has a conspiracy theory for everything. He's fat, crew-cut, white haired, wears button-down shirts that he tucks in to his jeans, and imports sweaters to sell for exorbitant prices.

Does he qualify as a hippie? How much ground is this word supposed to cover?

[The_Jazz]

Abaya, don't take this personally please, but I think you're confusing "nutjob" or "crackpot" and "hippie". I don't mean any offense to your family, but your uncle isn't a hippie.

Generally "hippie" has peaceful connotations, usually peaceful to the extreme. That may mean pacificism or just a laid back attitude, but your uncle strikes me as far too aggressive for hippieness.

The negativity around hippies, in my opinion and experience, arises from their dismissiveness about confrontations and their rejection that confrontation can be a useful tool.

[abaya]

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

Abaya, don't take this personally please, but I think you're confusing "nutjob" or "crackpot" and "hippie". I don't mean any offense to your family, but your uncle isn't a hippie.

Thanks Jazz, but honestly you'd have to try really hard to offend me about my uncle... he offends me by simply existing, the way he does... I try to avoid him as much as possible!!

Anyway, I see what you're getting at... to you, being a hippie is a bad thing because it connotes a kind of passivity that isn't constructive to society. Interesting. Well, then my uncle certainly is not one!! He's just crazy.

[mixedmedia]

My mother was a hippie back in the day. I have an aunt (and her girlfriend of some 25 years) who lived in Northern California for many, many years and who could both, probably, be identified as hippies. Although no one in the family ever refers to them by that name - they're just S & H. And they're fantastic people - well educated, interesting, involved. As long as they're good, I don't care how people choose to live. And I could certainly think of worse ideas to live by than those of social tolerance and responsibility and patronage of the planet.

And the concept of chakras is connected to a history of medical care that has kept billions of people healthy for more than two millenia. It has nothing to do with hippies. Maybe it's just that hippies have an open mind and are willing to accept that just because a concept hasn't emerged out of the last few centuries of Western European tradition doesn't make it bullshit.

[The_Jazz]

Originally Posted by abaya

Thanks Jazz, but honestly you'd have to try really hard to offend me about my uncle... he offends me by simply existing, the way he does... I try to avoid him as much as possible!!

Anyway, I see what you're getting at... to you, being a hippie is a bad thing because it connotes a kind of passivity that isn't constructive to society. Interesting. Well, then my uncle certainly is not one!! He's just crazy.

abaya, I hope that you picked up on my hippy-like response to your uncle. I was trying to make a subtle point, although I might have been too subtle in retrospect.

Hippies as a group are neither good nor bad. Look no further than cynthetiq's signature for proof. They are just like any other group that has good and bad folks making it up. Passivity is definitely necessary at times, but I don't think that it can be the overriding and unifying principle for a successful society, which is what many hippies would have you believe. Nor do I believe that conflict is always the best approach to any given problem.

[abaya]

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

As long as they're good, I don't care how people choose to live. And I could certainly think of worse ideas to live by than those of social tolerance and responsibility and patronage of the planet.

Well yes, this is what I'm saying... since when are these negative things? But other members are illustrating it a bit more for me, since I can see why such total open-mindedness might be less than productive. But then again, I'm one to err on the side of relativity so maybe that makes me a borderline hippie. Anthropologists are notoriously hippie-like, anyway... going native and all.

EDIT: after Jazz's last post... No, I hear you on that one. I mean, I guess I never saw hippies as a bad thing, maybe because I thought EVERYone went through a hippie phase (at least, 40 years ago)... and it wasn't negative. So I'm just surprised at how it's been used lately, not just on TFP but elsewhere... like some kind of derogatory label. It just didn't occur to me that it was a bad thing, and it still doesn't.

[Cynthetiq]

and the organic food eating types... those are the "crunch granolas people" to me.

[filtherton]

Non indigenous people who are into drum circles.

[Jinn]

And the concept of chakras is connected to a history of medical care that has kept billions of people healthy for more than two millenia. It has nothing to do with hippies. Maybe it's just that hippies have an open mind and are willing to accept that just because a concept hasn't emerged out of the last few centuries of Western European tradition doesn't make it bullshit.

I bet it has, HIPPIE!

[Willravel]

I'm a big hippy. I love to eat natural foods and go for hikes, I constantly buck against authority and protest things like war and out of control government and corporations, but I bathe regularly, am clean-shaven with short hair, and I wear clothes that are made of regular materials and not hemp. I'm a modern hippy.

I blame Nixon and Cartman for turning the term into a negative. Not only do I not see it as a negative, but I see it as a positive. Thomas Jefferson was a hippy. Think about that.

I think the best characterization of the liberals who could be called hippys today would be neo-hippy.

[StanT]

I refer to my ISP as "Hippy Broadband". Any time I have a problem, it takes 2 or 3 days til they get around to it.If needed, they'll drive over in their VW microbus and have a look. They run on their own schedule with a lack of urgency that drives me nuts.

I view hippy as term term that defines people that are laid back to the point of apathy. I don't view hippies or apathy as a bad thing, necessarily. Just an annoyance sometimes.

[Willravel]

Hippys were trying to stop the Vietnam war. I'd hardly call that apathy. Apathy is everything but hippys.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally Posted by willravel

Thomas Jefferson was a hippy. Think about that.

I am. I also can see that Thomas Jefferson was a rich land owner that owned slaves.

I think that negates any hippy-ness he has about him.

[Jetée]

Originally Posted by willravel

I'm a big hippy. I love to eat natural foods and go for hikes, I constantly buck against authority and protest things like war and out of control government and corporations, but I bathe regularly, am clean-shaven with short hair, and I wear clothes that are made of regular materials and not hemp. I'm a modern hippy.

I blame Nixon and Cartman for turning the term into a negative. Not only do I not see it as a negative, but I see it as a positive. Thomas Jefferson was a hippy. Think about that.

I think the best characterization of the liberals who could be called hippys today would be neo-hippy.

I was about to make this huge rant about "American hippie" = "British liberal", but you kinda covered some of the floor...

Oh, well... at least have this:

[Willravel]

fair enough.

[Jetée]

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I am. I also can see that Thomas Jefferson was a rich land owner that owned slaves.

I think that negates any hippy-ness he has about him.

Okay, so will didn't touch on it, but I shall...

By referring to the mold that Jefferson fit into as a person, I suppose at first glance you would infer he was not a "hippie"(please spell it right from now on! ).

But the ideals that he had for a new way of life free from governing monarchs, theories of human rights and responsibilites for all and not only for the privileged, as well as the compassion he bestowed upon all others, especially his own slaves, would classify him as a "person who deviates from the societal norms", i.e. a hippie/liberal, et al..

[abaya]

Originally Posted by StanT

They run on their own schedule with a lack of urgency that drives me nuts.

So does most of the non-Western world (+ Iceland, especially when it comes to our ISP). I guess they're all hippies, then.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally Posted by Jetstream

Okay, so will didn't touch on it, but I shall...

By referring to the mold that Jefferson fit into as a person, I suppose at first glance you would infer he was not a "hippie"(please spell it right from now on! ).

But the ideals that he had for a new way of life free from governing monarchs, theories of human rights and responsibilites for all and not only for the privileged, as well as the compassion he bestowed upon all others, especially his own slaves, would classify him as a "person who deviates from the societal norms", i.e. a hippie/liberal, et al..

I did spell it right initially but it looks weird to write hippieness. <--- see it looks funny.

Anyways, that description seems like it would encompass buddhists too.

buddhist = hippie

[Willravel]

Originally Posted by Jetstream

Okay, so will didn't touch on it, but I shall...

By referring to the mold that Jefferson fit into as a person, I suppose at first glance you would infer he was not a "hippie"(please spell it right from now on! ).

But the ideals that he had for a new way of life free from governing monarchs, theories of human rights and responsibilites for all and not only for the privileged, as well as the compassion he bestowed upon all others, especially his own slaves, would classify him as a "person who deviates from the societal norms", i.e. a hippie/liberal, et al..

Now you beat me to it!

[Jinn]

I was watching a History channel show the other day on the '60s and '70s, and they continuously referred to the politically active "hippies" as "counter-culture" activists. I think they were making a necessary distinction between hippies who wanted free love and weed, but didn't actively pursue anything, and the "counter-culture" movement which made dramatic statements and movements.

I think that the counter-culture movement eventually degraded into the connotation of hippies today; not many are political activists. Most are lazy pot-smokers with an obsession with nature, holistic healing “techniques,” and very little political unity.

[Jetée]

Why is that to be viewed as "normal", you must always have urgent and pressing matters on hand, never having enough time, and generally rushing through life?

Is that why we view hippies negatively, because they enjoy the freedom and wont to be calm, serene, and flowing in their everday affairs/arguments/beliefs.

Another word that pops into my mind is "Zen", while here in the western world it is viewed half-and-half as opening one's mind to the possibilities or just fanciful laziness.

I do not see it as a healthy habit for our society to categorize, label, and judge others accordingly in an effort to elevate our own status as superiors.


Mind your own damn business! Live and let die.

[Sweetpea]

Who was saying it negatively? When I hear hippie... I usually hear it in a positive light and it's meant as a compliment. Those who say it in a negative tone...they just haven't gotten in touch with their inner hippie yearnings....

Hippie to me means someone who contemplates the world around them, seeks some understanding of themselves and others and perhaps thinks outside the mainstream, this could be either in relationship, political or religious terms or all three.

Bascially, the only thing I don't align with on the 'hippie image' is the drug acceptance/participation part. Because I never was accepting of that, it's just not me and I don't like to be around it, I'm quite square when it comes to that. Oh and free love is only positive if you're using condoms...

Man.. maybe I'm not a hippie after all...


sweetpea

[kurty[B]]

Originally Posted by StanT

I view hippy as term term that defines people that are laid back to the point of apathy. I don't view hippies or apathy as a bad thing, necessarily. Just an annoyance sometimes.

Wow, I think almost everyone in my entire town would fall under this definition. Especially our city government officials "I don't know, let's table this affordable housing commission meeting a few months so construction costs will soar another 10% and we'll table it again because we can't possibly see how to make affordable housing affordable at that point".

When I use the term hippy in a serious manner I think of the Rainbow Family. Nice people, not my cup of tea.

When I use hippy in a joking term I think of blue-grass music lovers who travel from blue grass festival to festival and have found some way to dance to a fiddle.

[mixedmedia]

Originally Posted by JinnKai

I bet it has, HIPPIE!

I am rubber, you are glue....ehhh, forget it. I probably am a hippie. I do wear sandals every day...

[BadNick]

To me it seems a good percentage of people here might be hippies, including me by some measures. Anybody wanna start a commune? I still associate hippies as some kind of developmental transition from beatniks, so I have a soft spot for beatniks, too.

[Willravel]

I'm such a hippy that I don't even type the 'ie' at the end of the word, instead opting for the 'y' as in 'y are we in Iraq?' or 'y not give peace a chance?'.

[Jetée]

Originally Posted by willravel

I'm such a hippy that I don't even type the 'ie' at the end of the word, instead opting for the 'y' as in 'y are we in Iraq?' or 'y not give peace a chance?'.

I'm such a hippie that I was not at all bothered that this made even a scoop of sense.

EDIT: I see the sprinkles now

[Willravel]

Hip = fashionably current
y = y the hell are we fighting for something that's going to run out in a few years?

[Cynthetiq]

Originally Posted by willravel

Hip = fashionably current
y = y the hell are we fighting for something that's going to run out in a few years?

oh god no wonder you own a mac.

[Willravel]

Actually I own a Mac because I survived the Mac clone wars of the 90s. I won't be getting an iPhone tomorrow, though.

It's no crime to be hip!

[The_Jazz]

Originally Posted by willravel

Hip = fashionably current
y = y the hell are we fighting for something that's going to run out in a few years?

I swear to god that if you link to anything like "Hip to be Square" by Huey Lewis and the News, I'll give you a week's long vacation to ponder your sins...



What if you've fashionably late? Are you "lip"?

[abaya]

Mac owner = hippie. Agreed.

[Willravel]

Then I guess Sir Isaac Netwon was a hippy, too!

[Jetée]

aw...

Way to threadjack, ya hippies!



*grumble*never having a care in the world*grumble*